FUN SHOW REPORT; AS IT RELATES ONLY TO MODERNS

JohnMaben · January 8, 2012 9:16AM

Huh?

Yea, when's the last time you saw a post like this? The moderns market is alive and well. Sorry, naysayers.

You may or may not know that we RARELY set up at or even attend for that matter, shows. Not that shows are new to myself or my partner, as we both dealt in classics for 20+ years prior to transitioning. Our purpose in attending was simply to elevate our presence among the dealers we've know forever and show the others who we are. Frankly, I didn't care if we sold a single coin but we did sell many and bought probably five times what we sold.

The activity came in waves, but honestly I don't recall seeing any other tables that focused on retail being as consistently busy as we were. So what does this mean? It means that people like moderns. Even more, they like to see a selection and be treated well. It means that moderns have graduated from the back of the bus to being a legitimate segment of the overall coin market. Of course, many will still hold on to the old stigma's of misrepresentation and overpricing as a blanket representation, but that's not the modern coin market that we participate in and has faded to a mere shadow of what it once was in large part because of us and a few others who let the coins sell themselves and don't use misleading sales tactics.

You can't lump all modern coins and all modern coin dealers into one basket anymore than you can with classic coins.

I was honored to have Eric Jordan at our table on Thursday and Friday and enjoyed watching him interact with the public. People were buying a little of everything, even spouses which have way cooled off, but the A25 sets were the hands down hot item. We distributed buy/sell sheets early on and were continuing to sell back at the office but by late Thursday I realized the prices no longer made sense so (after selling many too cheap) I raised them substantially on both the buy and sell side. Oddly, (or maybe not) eBay is behind the curve of the market on these and a few screaming buys still exist if you want to go down that road. We saw some NGC PF69 ER Reverse Proofs at a BIN of $275 and bought all they had because in my mind that is just plain silly when I can sell 2006's at $219-$239 day in and day out.

The 2006 RP 70's are now selling for over $500 and one dealer is paying $450. How can a 2011 be $600??? Makes absolutely no sense.....

We had numerous meetings with suppliers, buyers, world mints, and eBay. All are of the mind that they want to continue to aggressively grow their businesses and have meaningful ideas and plans to do so. All of this bodes well for the modern coin business.

Thanks to those who over the years have not looked at me like a lunatic for going off in a direction that was largely uncharted and looked down upon by some. Thanks to the FUN show people for continuing to put on a great show.

John

bidask · January 8, 2012 9:42AM

I know little about moderns.....

What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release?

Is there a diference in quality?

Thanks,

Bochiman · January 8, 2012 9:53AM

John,

Great report and helpful insight in the modern area.

Thanks

NPD1078 · January 8, 2012 10:37AM

Great to hear a FUN report from you John. I ONLY collect modern's so I was wondering what was going on with them at the FUN show. Interesting to hear about the First Spouse's.

MilesWaits · January 8, 2012 11:00AM

Thank you the eloquent and supportive post on the beloved moderns!

That is where I started, with MCM in many of my initial modern purchases, and graduated to luckily buying from the Mint during the booms!

If you are a lunatic, then I am clinically hopeless and am ready for a platinum straight-jacket.

Bravo for your dedication to the cause!

Miles

BAJJERFAN · January 8, 2012 11:12AM

<< I know little about moderns.....

What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release?

Is there a diference in quality?

Thanks, >>

For the most part there is no difference in quality between the two. Coins struck early in a run mite be a tad better due to less die wear than those struck later in the same run. There is no assurance that the first coins from the dies are the first coins to the shipping dock. It has to do with when they were released for distribution and not when they were made.

mkman123 · January 8, 2012 11:30AM

Nice report, I still love classics tho

Gemineye · January 8, 2012 11:37AM

<< I know little about moderns.....

What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release?

Is there a diference in quality?

Thanks, >>

If the coin you refer to is late or missed the buss from the mint....IT ( the coin) don't get NO Early Release...!!!..

ModernCoin · January 8, 2012 11:40AM

Be careful when talking about FS/ER guys. I was banned for calling them a gimmick (which they're not

) and I would hate to see others banned for the same thing...

<< What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release? Is there a diference in quality? >>

Is there really a difference? IMO the answer is 'kinda'. Clearly it should be noted that part of the reason FS/ER coins sell for more is due to the crackout game. Many people will continually resubmit coins until they come back a 70 so buying an FS/ER 70 means that most likely the coin was a 70 on it's first submission. Another reason for the premium IMO are the existence of registries.

Gemineye · January 8, 2012 11:54AM

<< Be careful when talking about FS/ER guys. I was banned for calling them a gimmick (which they're not

) and I would hate to see others banned for the same thing...

<< What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release? Is there a diference in quality? >>

Is there really a difference? IMO the answer is 'kinda'. Clearly it should be noted that part of the reason FS/ER coins sell for more is due to the crackout game. Many people will continually resubmit coins until they come back a 70 so buying an FS/ER 70 means that most likely the coin was a 70 on it's first submission. Another reason for the premium IMO are the existence of registries. >>

Gimmick...well you be the judge......Suppose the TPG's start issuing a new label as to a coin that was in a mint set was different from a coin that you received elswhere and the quality of the single coin is better than the packaged coin...How can the Mint Set coin be vauable...????...Where is the justification..??

ModernCoin · January 8, 2012 11:58AM

Thanks for the feedback on the show John. It's a shame you guys cut out a little early Saturday as I had money in my pocket earmarked for your booth, but you guys were gone when I arrived. Out of curiosity (assuming you don't mind sharing), what were your top two or three sellers other than 25th ase's?

jmski52 · January 8, 2012 12:03PM

Nice report, and a good commentary. Thanks! Starting MCM took some guts and I'm glad to see you making it a success.

One question - are the Pucks dead for good?

Gemineye · January 8, 2012 12:07PM

I wish it was held in October....that's the only chance I could be there...

ScarsdaleCoin · January 8, 2012 12:19PM

All I can say is that todays moderns are next hundred year classics.... with that being said....there are very few dealers that will make a real market in them...so its great that your able to do so....good luck with your biz

JohnMaben · January 8, 2012 12:20PM

<< Thanks for the feedback on the show John. It's a shame you guys cut out a little early Saturday as I had money in my pocket earmarked for your booth, but you guys were gone when I arrived. Out of curiosity (assuming you don't mind sharing), what were your top two or three sellers other than 25th ase's? >>

Honestly, nothing else was a stand out like the A25 sets. Otherwise, a little bit of everything, commems, world silver coins, spouses, and though we didn't bring many did sell a PCGS 70PL UHR.

John

JohnMaben · January 8, 2012 12:23PM

<< Nice report, and a good commentary. Thanks! Starting MCM took some guts and I'm glad to see you making it a success.

One question - are the Pucks dead for good?

>>

Nope. We did not bring any to the show, but they still sell very well on our website. I'm actually surprised at how many people are still buying them after initial 2010 hoopla. There is a solid base of collectors for the vapor blasted coins as well, but not of the magnitude we saw seeking the first few issues.

John

itsnotjustme · January 8, 2012 12:30PM

Thanks for the report John.

Is your buy/sell price sheet available on the BST board? A25s, as well as 2006 silver and gold anniversay....

JohnMaben · January 8, 2012 12:45PM

<< All I can say is that todays moderns are next hundred year classics.... with that being said....there are very few dealers that will make a real market in them...so its great that your able to do so....good luck with your biz >>

Thanks Jon. The wholesale moderns market is thin. As a result, it isn't likely we'll ever see 4 or 5 market makers with a bid and ask for say graded gold eagles or buffalo's as you would in say classic generic gold. We really don't try to make or support markets for the sake of being a marketmaker, we do it when we need the coins. It's demand driven. That's why you'll see us buying UHR's for say two weeks straight then stop. A week later we're usually back. Once we have enough of a given item, no need to buy more. As inventory levels drop, we're back buying again.

I think as time rolls along there will be more activity on a wholesale level, I see it now to some degree. Sadly, we lost a pioneer last year in Robert Lecce, RIP but Rich is doing a fine job. Also noteworthy that a growing number of "rare coin" (classic) companies are moving into moderns or have quietly been involved for a few years now. After years of turning their heads the other way, you can't ignore a product that you can supply and that people want.

John

ModernCoin · January 8, 2012 12:47PM

<< One question - are the Pucks dead for good?

>>

ATBs were largely non-existent at the show. I doubt I saw more than 3 or 4 booths with ATBs. It was definitely a contrast to shows held just six months ago where seemingly every dealer had at least a few. The only bullion issue ATBs were at Provident on Thursday. When I went back to the Provident booth on Saturday they were sold out.

It's interesting to note that the Chickasaw looks like it will be the lowest minted ATB to date, however I think it's a forgone conclusion that sales will continue to decline and we're going to see even lower sales numbers next year. That's good news IMO

cladking · January 8, 2012 12:55PM

Thanks for the report. There have been lots of really great shows for moderns but they appear
irregularly and mostly unexpectedly. Almost all the newbies already know it but one day collectors
will wake up to realize that they didn't stop making coins in 1965. Every year more moderns catch
fire because the weak demand exceeds the even weaker supply.

Time does fly so one must mind his business.

JohnMaben · January 8, 2012 1:01PM

<< Thanks for the report John.

Is your buy/sell price sheet available on the BST board? A25s, as well as 2006 silver and gold anniversay.... >>

We post regular messages on the dealer networks since those dealers are our primary suppliers. Occasionally we'll go to the BST but I much prefer the simplicity of the dealer transactions. I think the BST is awesome for collectors. In any case, getting a bid on an item from us is as simple as emailing us a list and we'll make offers on the coin(s) we need. If we don't need them we'll tell you that. On coins that are known to spot, we do usually stipulate a sight seen transaction, because we WILL NOT ship out a spotted 70 to a retail customer.

John

ricko · January 9, 2012 12:05AM

Great report John...thanks for the information on the modern market. Cheers, RickO

ProofCoins · January 9, 2012 12:11AM

so were prices up/down or just busy at the normal lower levels

ajman · January 9, 2012 12:18AM

Thank you for a most excellent report.

ModernCoinMart · January 9, 2012 1:04AM

<< so were prices up/down or just busy at the normal lower levels >>

Stable at current price levels, but rising on A25 stuff....

John

JohnMaben · January 9, 2012 1:10AM

Back at work... sorry was logged in as MCM, same difference but like to post as myself unless on the BST side.

John

19Lyds · January 9, 2012 4:43AM

<< I know little about moderns.....

What is the difference between an early release modern coin and a coin of the same type that is not an early release?

Is there a diference in quality?

Thanks, >>

The difference between First Strike/Early Release and non-First Strike/Early Release can best be summed up with the following images:

..

Numismatically - Absolutely No Difference
Slab Label Collectibility - The ONLY difference

ericj96 · January 9, 2012 1:00PM

It was a great show. Johns Tables were as loaded as any on the floor. It was great to see so many moderns collectors come by and have the chance to talk to them.

Thanks

Eric

Raufus · January 9, 2012 1:09PM

John-

Thanks very much for the excellent post.

As always, thanks for all that you do for the Modern hobby as well as for being one of THE BEST in the business - moderns or otherwise!

R-

Raufus · January 9, 2012 1:55PM

Hi John-

Any plans to set up at any of the Balto. shows?

R-

ericj96 · January 10, 2012 2:17PM

I have read the reports by other large name classic dealers and most commented that it was a good show and it was. I can say that compared to the Boston show in the summer of 2010 that moderns buying activity was strong at the FUN. 70 grade four coin liberty gold issues and better date proof platinum eagle fractionals sold just fine, and 70 grade 25th silver 5 coin sets were hot. If you wanted to buy 25th silver sets I hope you showed up early as the focus from the major dealers like Maben and Lecce moved from buying and selling on day one to "well I guess we need load up before the glut is gone". John felt the bottom of the 25th set market has arrived and I agree.

In the day and a half that I was there multiple people came by looking for fractional gold Buffalo issues but were not having any luck.

I watched John doing a fine job of serving the moderns collectors, despite him feeling a bit under the weather. We talked about how we can help the moderns collectors and their markets. I'm excited about our new book which I believe contains excellent fact based commentary and descriptions. I am going to help him all I can. We're already bouncing ideas off each other for the next book.

Eric

ElmerFusterpuck · January 10, 2012 2:26PM

Out of curiosity, how is the market for non-precious metal coins, like attractive uncirculated clad/copper coinage from the 60's and 70's? I'm mostly a classic collector, but I do try to chase down nice raw examples of clads from the 60's and early 70's. They seem to be pretty elusive, but I've quietly built up some nice boxes of 2x2's. In most cases, I haven't spent much over face, should be interesting to see what these do in the future.

JohnMaben · January 11, 2012 4:13AM

We may do a Baltimore show, distinct possibility.

Once you get outside of silver, gold, and platinum modern coins from 1982 to present, for the most part, you've lost me as that is not my client base at all. Wish I could say more, but I can't.

John

PinkFloyd · January 11, 2012 4:29AM

Thanks, John and Eric, for your reports on the show. I'll be looking forward to the new book.

segoja · January 11, 2012 7:31AM

HMMM Moderns!

They are certainly alive and well

I have an article coming up shortly in the Coin Dealer Newsletter on Moderns!

A bit of a conundrum!!!

cladking · January 11, 2012 10:21AM

<< HMMM Moderns!

They are certainly alive and well

I have an article coming up shortly in the Coin Dealer Newsletter on Moderns!

A bit of a conundrum!!! >>

Way cool.

I sure hope to see it.

FUN SHOW REPORT; AS IT RELATES ONLY TO MODERNS

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