Another B&M story, another one bites the dust.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 4:50AM

I went to yet another B&M store to pick up an Orgegon Trail commemorative that was on hold for me. Since I was going there I decided to try to liquidate a few of my dupes/"lower" graded coins. the lot was five Washingtons graded pc65 to pc66.... a couple of semi-keys were in the lot. So I take the coins to the counter and offer them up while the guy locates my Oregon Trail (37-D in pc65 "rattler")... he ponders the coins, goes to his computer, looks at a greysheet and then asks what I was looking to get for the coins. I reply with a number close to 75% of greysheet bid.... He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... so he offers up 1/3rd of current bid prices!!!

So I buy the commem, take my coins and leave. I will not go back to that place again! I have done business with the owner for years, as he has nice coins, and B&M's are becoming scarce! These are very nice coins, I will have no problem selling them at least close to GS Bid! I don't need the $ I was just simply streamlining the collection! I feel sorry for people that absolutely need to sell for various reasons. No wonder B&M's are going the way of the dinosaur. I will stick to this site for my collecting needs and a few decent ebay sellers!

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 5:02AM

At the end of the day the B&M guy still put your new coin aside for you as a courtesy , i'm quite surprised you'd say you'll not do business with him again.He is after all in the business to sell coins more than he is to buy them at any given customers rates.

SmallTownCoins · January 11, 2012 5:05AM

Just for fun, can you list the coins and grades,
I,m Curious what I would have offered...

291fifth · January 11, 2012 5:06AM

If the dealer thought he could sell the coins easily he would have made a higher offer. His offer can be interpreted as: "I have no customer demand for these and don't want to tie up my limited capital in them."

The reason he has no customer demand for them is that their collector base has eroded over the past four years. They are, as you state, "lower" graded coins. The market for such coins is disappearing into the economic abyss.

kiyote · January 11, 2012 5:07AM

My B&M guy looks over assorted date silver eagles that I want as bullion and muses things like "1993 is a scarcer date... I might just send this into PCGS. You'd have to pay a premium..." and yet when I went to sell proof platinum he didn't even as about the dates and offered me melt. If I went to sell a 25th anniversary set he'd probably offer me $310 for it. There's making a profit and then there's just being stupid. Needless to say my Anniversary eagles went to eBay without a problem.

chipper10 · January 11, 2012 5:11AM

Why not still buy if the price is right and you want the coin? I deal with several B&M's, some I will not sell to because their buy prices are too low for me but many times their sell prices are lower also- just sayin'. Let the others sell to him and cherrypick what you want from his inventory and don't be afraid to haggle with him.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:13AM

I contend the B&M guy is in the business to do BOTH buy and sell! Making money at both ends of the deal! To offer 1/3 of the GS bid price is eggregious! I'd prefer that he simply say that he was not interested in the coins rather than attempt to fleece me. The idea that the coins were illiquid to him is unbelievable. It was not a 32D or S, or 36D, they were semi-keys in very nice condition.

If a dealer doesn't want to work both ends of a transaction, that is buy and sell, then I don't need to constantly feed him my cash. I don't begrudge him a profit, but I don't appreciate the robbery without a gun!

rec78 · January 11, 2012 5:14AM

<< At the end of the day the B&M guy still put your new coin aside for you as a courtesy , i'm quite surprised you'd say you'll not do business with him again.He is after all in the business to sell coins more than he is to buy them at any given customers rates. >>

Sounds like a dealer that you can buy from. In my experience, you cannot sell to some dealers, but you can buy from them. I would still go back to try to buy.
Bob

WTCG · January 11, 2012 5:15AM

People can offer any amount they want for any coin regardless of what Greysheet says. The Greysheet is merely a price guide, the stated values are not gospel. The only thing you can do is not accept the offer, find someone else who is willing to pay closer to your asking price and not deal with that shop again.

And it is true classic commems are very difficult to sell for full Greysheet numbers.

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 5:15AM

The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff.

CyStater · January 11, 2012 5:17AM

Sounds like a pretty stupid and petty reason to stop doing business with someone. You offered up your price. He offered up his. No deal was able to be struck. So what? Why is he somehow obligated to buy up all your unwanted coins?

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:18AM

<< Just for fun, can you list the coins and grades,
I,m Curious what I would have offered... >>

35 P in pc66
40-D in 65
41 in 66
42-D in 66
42-S in 66

All washington quarters, pcgs, mostly blast white....

He offered 350 for the lot!!!

lsica · January 11, 2012 5:19AM

If he doesn't offer you what you believe to be a fair price, you have a right to not sell to him. But I wouldn't look at what he did as him trying to "rip" you. Based on your requested price I'm sure he figures you know what the pieces are "worth". He just knows his clientle, and knows what he can get for coins/how long they will sit/etc and makes an offer accordingly. Sure, if he did something to expand his customer base he might be able to get more and then offer you more. But for one reason or another (and you don't know why people's lives are always more complicated than you know), he doesn't. So he offers you what he offers you. You know he may have even done you a favor and offered you an especially low ball price knowing you'd balk so you could sell them on ebay or wherever and get yourself a better price.

soapguy · January 11, 2012 5:22AM

why would you not go back? don't like his buy prices, fine then don't sell.
buy what you like then go about your business. his bid - your choice to sell

TheBigB · January 11, 2012 5:26AM

He may have needed to wholesale these out to another dealer.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:27AM

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

We can agree that anyone can attempt to buy or sell anything at any price. But a successful business operation likely depends on repeat transactions from a steady customer base. Taking advantage of someone on either end of the deal will not result in repeat business!

SmallTownCoins · January 11, 2012 5:28AM

<< 

<< Just for fun, can you list the coins and grades,
I,m Curious what I would have offered... >>

35 P in pc66
40-D in 65
41 in 66
42-D in 66
42-S in 66

All washington quarters, pcgs, mostly blast white....

He offered 350 for the lot!!! >>

Hi, Thanks, Perfect example of over the counter stuff...
Coins that I really have no use for, but would make an cash offer
simply because the customer offered them....
I would have offer :

35p 90
40d 175
41 25
42d 30
42s 80
Total $400.

and hoped that the seller would refuse my offer...
simply because the coins really would just "sit"
and if I were offer $450 for the lot I'd be a happy seller..
Your dealer really did nothing wrong...

beartracks42 · January 11, 2012 5:28AM

It would be hard for anyone to value those quarters via GS, as GS does not go beyond MS65. In addition, the 1940-D is a tough date and has a GS value of $245 at bid. The guy was surely lowballing you on price, perhaps because he has no buyer and really did not want them. Other than this info, I agree with most of what others have said.

Coins101 · January 11, 2012 5:33AM

<< He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... so he offers up 1/3rd of current bid prices!!! >>

You didn't take them to that Pawn Shop in Vegas did you? It kind of sounds like the guy on Pawn Stars.

To that end, it sounds like he gave you an acceptable price on the commemorative and even put it aside for you. Sounds like a good guy to me. Throw the quarters on eBay. Someone will buy them.

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 5:35AM

<< 

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

We can agree that anyone can attempt to buy or sell anything at any price. But a successful business operation likely depends on repeat transactions from a steady customer base. Taking advantage of someone on either end of the deal will not result in repeat business! >>

Using that logic i should be able to ask for filet mignon my next trip to the butchers and take him a few rabbits i plugged that morning , am i right to be angry when he chases me out his store ?

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:36AM

Any "reasonable" guesses at to the ratio of dealers to collectors on this site????

PerryHall · January 11, 2012 5:38AM

<< Any "reasonable" guesses at to the ratio of dealers to collectors on this site????

>>

Not sure but the dealers are sure easy to spot.

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 5:40AM

<< Any "reasonable" guesses at to the ratio of dealers to collectors on this site????

>>

Honestly , i don't think guesses are needed here , any dealers on site have always been upfront about it and in this thread too. One dealer even calculated what you might have got elsewhere with just a very small difference from what your guy offered. Ebay is a crapshoot ..good luck

SmallTownCoins · January 11, 2012 5:41AM

Just trying to make a living :-)

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

We can agree that anyone can attempt to buy or sell anything at any price. But a successful business operation likely depends on repeat transactions from a steady customer base. Taking advantage of someone on either end of the deal will not result in repeat business! >>

Using that logic i should be able to ask for filet mignon my next trip to the butchers and take him a few rabbits i plugged that morning , am i right to be angry when he chases me out his store ? >>

I thought this was a serious forum for coin enthusiasts!!! Your comment is absurd!

soapguy · January 11, 2012 5:45AM

depending on its looks that 40-d is a nice date, like
to see an image.

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 5:47AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

We can agree that anyone can attempt to buy or sell anything at any price. But a successful business operation likely depends on repeat transactions from a steady customer base. Taking advantage of someone on either end of the deal will not result in repeat business! >>

Using that logic i should be able to ask for filet mignon my next trip to the butchers and take him a few rabbits i plugged that morning , am i right to be angry when he chases me out his store ? >>

I thought this was a serious forum for coin enthusiasts!!! Your comment is absurd! >>

No more so than your little rant , in fact less.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 5:58AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

We can agree that anyone can attempt to buy or sell anything at any price. But a successful business operation likely depends on repeat transactions from a steady customer base. Taking advantage of someone on either end of the deal will not result in repeat business! >>

Using that logic i should be able to ask for filet mignon my next trip to the butchers and take him a few rabbits i plugged that morning , am i right to be angry when he chases me out his store ? >>

I thought this was a serious forum for coin enthusiasts!!! Your comment is absurd! >>

No more so than your little rant , in fact less. >>

I simply put forth a thesis as to why I think B&M's are becoming scarce. My humble opinion, and I put it out here for comments and other thoughts. Your comment concerning rabbits and filet mignon adds nothing to the conversation.

JamesMurray · January 11, 2012 6:03AM

If you don't see the connection with your own expectations that's fair enough. Most people in that situation would simply make the bst listing and crack on with things..quietly. : )

ModernCoin · January 11, 2012 6:05AM

<< I thought this was a serious forum for coin enthusiasts!!! Your comment is absurd! >>

Not as absurd as assuming a dealer should pay you a certain percent of GS. Did you stop and consider that perhaps the dealer knows his clients better than you? Perhaps he's always had trouble moving Washingtons. As such it wouldn't make sense for him to tie up too much capital on slow moving coins.

<< The deal on the Commem obviously suited you , the rest seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face stuff. >>

+1

coindeuce · January 11, 2012 6:06AM

Bankerbob, I don't see what your remarks about a particular dealer not wanting to buy your "special" coins adds to the discussion either. Why wouldn't you initially go back to the source you bought them from if they are so special? Too much like work for you? Not every dealer wants to handle the full spectrum of issues, and in fact the dealer you remarked about made it very clear he wasn't really interested. So why exacerbate the point by ignoring his sentiment? The specific incident you cited is a very shortsighted way of thinking that retail coin shops may not be successful or are supposedly in fact a failure.

AMRC · January 11, 2012 6:16AM

Something does not seem right by any means. I would buy pretty much any PCGS graded coin at 75% of Grey sheet any day. The dealer was saying her was just not interested in those coins. At 1/3 of sheet he should not have even made an offer. Next time you get a hankering. Just ship.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 6:18AM

<< If you don't see the connection with your own expectations that's fair enough. Most people in that situation would simply make the bst listing and crack on with things..quietly. : ) >>

THAT is good advice!

....and your statement is accurate I do not see the connection. The dealer does sell Washies, I have bought a few from him. I apparently was short-sighted in my expectations that he may want to buy my duplicates.

I find it curious that when the gold buyers set up shop in the hotels and offers grannie a hundred bucks for a StGaudens, that nearly everyone on this forum blasts the buyers as thieves, but if you take issue with a COIN DEALER, Katie bar the door!!!!

Just sayin-

notwilight · January 11, 2012 6:19AM

Most dealers would have just passed. He went out on the limb to make you an offer that he thought you would reject but at least give you the option. You sawed off the limb. --Jerry

coindeuce · January 11, 2012 6:21AM

So we can assume by your above analogy that you are an uninformed granny who needs some education?

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 6:23AM

<< So we can assume by your above analogy that you are an uninformed granny who needs some education?

>>

Good one coindeuce! I can take some good ol ribbing.... Note, that I did not sell.

EagleEye · January 11, 2012 6:24AM

Maybe you should buy the coins you want at the B&M for cash and sell your trade-in's here on the BST forums. That way everyone gets what they want.

Greeniejr · January 11, 2012 6:29AM

$350 was a bit low but not by much. When it comes to stuff like that I will first pass and if the person insists on an offer I will make one with full disclosure that it is not an area where I am the strongest and I really don't want to offend them. If they still insist, all bets are off when it comes to the seller complaining about the offer. Things would be different if you were actually selling a product that was more easily salable both retail and wholesale.

crypto79 · January 11, 2012 6:30AM

Maybe it's not the dealer but your choice in what you collect and even you acknowledge that they were castoffs. And to be fair the coins you listed are not rare and only a piece of plastic and label away from being worth around melt so an exact evaluation must be hard for a dealer.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 6:30AM

<< Maybe you should buy the coins you want at the B&M for cash and sell your trade-in's here on the BST forums. That way everyone gets what they want. >>

Good Advice Rick! So much for attempting to stir a productive conversation on the decline/overall health of the B&M coin dealers! LOL....

For the record, I bought an NGC three coin set of ms66 (high, low, regular leaf) Wisconsin quarters from you years ago! Those are obviously underwater, but I have never criticized EERC!!! LOL.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 6:33AM

<< $350 was a bit low but not by much. When it comes to stuff like that I will first pass and if the person insists on an offer I will make one with full disclosure that it is not an area where I am the strongest and I really don't want to offend them. If they still insist, all bets are off when it comes to the seller complaining about the offer. Things would be different if you were actually selling a product that was more easily salable both retail and wholesale. >>

That would have been a professional way of handling things IMHO!!!

Thank You.

EagleEye · January 11, 2012 6:35AM

For the record, I bought an NGC three coin set of ms66 (high, low, regular leaf) Wisconsin quarters from you years ago! Those are obviously underwater, but I have never criticized EERC!!! LOL.

My crystal ball says they will be hot some day. Just look at the Cherrypicker's Guide 5th edition edited by Ken Potter. The negativity has all but evaporated (except for TexasNational's posts)

frnklnlvr · January 11, 2012 6:38AM

<< Any "reasonable" guesses at to the ratio of dealers to collectors on this site????

>>

I'm not a dealer and I agree with the responses in this thread. I'm not familiar with the prices of the coins you were trying to sell but the B&M made an offer for what they were worth to him with the risk they may sit in inventory a while. If it were me, I'd simply keep the coins if I didn't like the offer. I certainly wouldn't refuse to do business with him anymore because of this, especially if he's nice enough to hold a coin for me.

dimples · January 11, 2012 6:56AM

Bankerbob as you now realize there are a lot of coins that are one way sales. That's why every collector should try to sell a couple of coins every once in a while. It really makes for an education. Now on a more positive note there is Ebay. Everything will sell but for the right price. Bigger audience higher selling price. Those pieces would sell nicely on ebay.

Bankerbob56 · January 11, 2012 7:08AM

<< Bankerbob as you now realize there are a lot of coins that are one way sales. That's why every collector should try to sell a couple of coins every once in a while. It really makes for an education. Now on a more positive note there is Ebay. Everything will sell but for the right price. Bigger audience higher selling price. Those pieces would sell nicely on ebay. >>

You are spot on!

I believe that more and more buyers/sellers are "retreating" to the internet for transactions and this is one very big reason - one-way transactions. B&M's cannot or will not compete with the electronic medium. I will still visit B&M's out of curiousity, but they will no longer be my first source for buying or selling. They simply don't meet my needs on several fronts.

Pokermandude · January 11, 2012 7:09AM

This B&M sounds very similar to the best local B&M in my city as well. Sometimes there's good material at a decent price, but it's a waste of time trying to sell ANYTHING at all to them, especially quality stuff.

morgantype · January 11, 2012 7:15AM

<< 

<< At the end of the day the B&M guy still put your new coin aside for you as a courtesy , i'm quite surprised you'd say you'll not do business with him again.He is after all in the business to sell coins more than he is to buy them at any given customers rates. >>

Sounds like a dealer that you can buy from. In my experience, you cannot sell to some dealers, but you can buy from them. I would still go back to try to buy.
Bob >>

This idea is key.

I have a dealer that I get my 90% junk at because he moves it at melt. His B&M is a bit dustier, and he doesn't have a huge clientele, due to this, I don't ever go to sell there.

I have another B&M that carries a wide range of items, that I buy and sell at because his business/capitalization/customer base is large enough for him to offer a wide range of bullion and numismatic items as well as act as a "clearing house" for streamlining my collection. (read as fair prices for SHQ, Nickels, memorial cent sets in Danscos)

I have a couple other B&Ms that I poke around at and mainly buy at.

So I guess I am really just echoing the above sentiment as to how you should not write this dealer off, rather, do your buying there and your selling somewhere else.

bestday · January 11, 2012 7:18AM

<< I went to yet another B&M store to pick up an Orgegon Trail commemorative that was on hold for me. Since I was going there I decided to try to liquidate a few of my dupes/"lower" graded coins. the lot was five Washingtons graded pc65 to pc66.... a couple of semi-keys were in the lot. So I take the coins to the counter and offer them up while the guy locates my Oregon Trail (37-D in pc65 "rattler")... he ponders the coins, goes to his computer, looks at a greysheet and then asks what I was looking to get for the coins. I reply with a number close to 75% of greysheet bid.... He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... so he offers up 1/3rd of current bid prices!!!

So I buy the commem, take my coins and leave. I will not go back to that place again! I have done business with the owner for years, as he has nice coins, and B&M's are becoming scarce! These are very nice coins, I will have no problem selling them at least close to GS Bid! I don't need the $ I was just simply streamlining the collection! I feel sorry for people that absolutely need to sell for various reasons. No wonder B&M's are going the way of the dinosaur. I will stick to this site for my collecting needs and a few decent ebay sellers! >>

The B& Ms are slowly becoming dinosaurs.. imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot

Greeniejr · January 11, 2012 7:41AM

<< 

<< I went to yet another B&M store to pick up an Orgegon Trail commemorative that was on hold for me. Since I was going there I decided to try to liquidate a few of my dupes/"lower" graded coins. the lot was five Washingtons graded pc65 to pc66.... a couple of semi-keys were in the lot. So I take the coins to the counter and offer them up while the guy locates my Oregon Trail (37-D in pc65 "rattler")... he ponders the coins, goes to his computer, looks at a greysheet and then asks what I was looking to get for the coins. I reply with a number close to 75% of greysheet bid.... He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... so he offers up 1/3rd of current bid prices!!!

So I buy the commem, take my coins and leave. I will not go back to that place again! I have done business with the owner for years, as he has nice coins, and B&M's are becoming scarce! These are very nice coins, I will have no problem selling them at least close to GS Bid! I don't need the $ I was just simply streamlining the collection! I feel sorry for people that absolutely need to sell for various reasons. No wonder B&M's are going the way of the dinosaur. I will stick to this site for my collecting needs and a few decent ebay sellers! >>

The B& Ms are slowly becoming dinosaurs.. imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot >>

So maybe Spot or 1-2% over is more like it but why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay more. Those are bullion items.

SeattleSlammer · January 11, 2012 7:45AM

33% of greysheet bid is a hose job, period.

PTVETTER · January 11, 2012 8:27AM

In this case I would side with the B&M

Sorry if the truth hurts that's life

Another B&M story, another one bites the dust.

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Another B&amp;M story, another one bites the dust.

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Another B&M story, another one bites the dust.