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Another B&M story, another one bites the dust.

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  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I went to yet another B&M store to pick up an Orgegon Trail commemorative that was on hold for me. Since I was going there I decided to try to liquidate a few of my dupes/"lower" graded coins. the lot was five Washingtons graded pc65 to pc66.... a couple of semi-keys were in the lot. So I take the coins to the counter and offer them up while the guy locates my Oregon Trail (37-D in pc65 "rattler")... he ponders the coins, goes to his computer, looks at a greysheet and then asks what I was looking to get for the coins. I reply with a number close to 75% of greysheet bid.... He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... so he offers up 1/3rd of current bid prices!!!

    So I buy the commem, take my coins and leave. I will not go back to that place again! I have done business with the owner for years, as he has nice coins, and B&M's are becoming scarce! These are very nice coins, I will have no problem selling them at least close to GS Bid! I don't need the $ I was just simply streamlining the collection! I feel sorry for people that absolutely need to sell for various reasons. No wonder B&M's are going the way of the dinosaur. I will stick to this site for my collecting needs and a few decent ebay sellers! >>



    The B& Ms are slowly becoming dinosaurs.. imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot >>



    So maybe Spot or 1-2% over is more like it but why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay more. Those are bullion items. >>



    I highly doubt the B&M would turn around and sell them at bullion prices. More then
    likely they know to put them up on ebay or wholesale them out for what they
    are really worth during a quick sale.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In this case I would side with the B&M

    Sorry if the truth hurts that's life >>


    image

    The store really did not want the coins, and you pushed for an offer. What were you expecting, ONE MILLION DOLLARS?

    image
  • Bayard1908Bayard1908 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>$350 was a bit low but not by much. When it comes to stuff like that I will first pass and if the person insists on an offer I will make one with full disclosure that it is not an area where I am the strongest and I really don't want to offend them. If they still insist, all bets are off when it comes to the seller complaining about the offer. Things would be different if you were actually selling a product that was more easily salable both retail and wholesale. >>



    This is the tactful and proper way to handle things.


  • << <i> imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot >>



    Are you serious? The market for 1oz pcgs70 age's is incredibly thin yet you're expecting your local B&M to offer you a premium for them? How many 1oz AGE pcgs 70 slab collectors do you think walk into that shop on a weekly basis?
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot >>



    Are you serious? The market for 1oz pcgs70 age's is incredibly thin yet you're expecting your local B&M to offer you a premium for them? How many 1oz AGE pcgs 70 slab collectors do you think walk into that shop on a weekly basis? >>



    I can only speak for the B&Ms that I have spent time at but they all refer to contacts
    where they can quickly sell off material like the above as well as using ebay when
    they wish. Do you really think that every single item they buy eventually gets sold
    to a walk in customer?
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. This dealer may get some great coins in someday and you will want to keep that relationship positive..
  • This is a very educational thread about the pitfalls of buying and selling...The offers and expections seem to have a Grand Canyon effect between the buyer and seller...!!!....
    ......Larry........image


  • << <i> Do you really think that every single item they buy eventually gets sold to a walk in customer? >>



    Of course not. However do you know anyone willing to pay a substantial premium for slabbed 1oz AGEs? Neither do most coin dealers I'm betting. Keep in mind many B&Ms still think all AGEs are to be priced based off melt value.

    You're missing the forest for the trees though if you think the poster has a legitimate complaint regarding only being offered 3% under on slabbed 1oz gold eagles.
  • 35 P in pc66
    40-D in 65
    41 in 66
    42-D in 66
    42-S in 66



    How did you ascertain grey sheet bid on the MS66's? The monthly GS does not have these grades?


    TRUTH
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭
    That's an excellent point! He actually quoted 30 percent of pc65 coins. He searched his computer briefly, then went to the greysheet.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • I went on Teletrade and retrieved some hammer prices for the grades in the last 100 days.

    1935 MS66 $60
    1941 MS66 $30
    1942D MS66 $75
    1942S MS66 $160

    1940D MS65 $180.


    These are toward the lower end of the bid spectrum, but are the numbers a dealer would use for reference.


    TRUTH
  • The dealer quoted 70% of auctions numbers, which is not out of line.


    TRUTH


  • << <i>The dealer quoted 70% of auctions numbers, which is not out of line.


    TRUTH >>



    This thread is about feelings, sort of an us vs them mentality, so please don't insert this thing you call "truth" as it has no place in the discussion. Now continue the B&M bashing as clearly the nice guys who hold coins for us are all crooks!
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds to me like you got emotionally attached to a group of common, ho-hum coins...and didn't like the reality check the B&M dealer gave you. The phrase "life sucks, wear a helmet" comes to mind.
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Sounds to me like you got emotionally attached to a group of common, ho-hum coins...and didn't like the reality check the B&M dealer gave you. The phrase "life sucks, wear a helmet" comes to mind. >>



    That's a great phrase, I'll use the next time I don't but a coin at a B&M shop.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A collector and contributor to some numismatic literature was in my office today. He looked over an IHC and the 2x2 said "$25" on it. He asked if he could have it for "$20". I said : "No, but you could have it for "$25". He said, "No thanks." Then he watched me take the 2x2 , grab a Sharpie, write "$35" over the top of $25 and put it back in the tray. He started laughing and said, "are you serious ? " ... I answered , "Yes, if you want it, I have a little wiggle room now".

  • pantherpanther Posts: 395 ✭✭
    Action prices realized on the last 4 sales of each Quarter as per PCGS website (the facts)
    1942-s MS-66
    $360
    $604
    $327
    $633

    1940-d MS-65
    $219
    $280
    $249
    $363

    1935 MS-66
    $150
    $90
    $173
    $161

    1942-D MS-66
    $137
    $107
    $165
    $202

    1941 MS-66
    $164
    $202
    $59
    $94

    total for the lowest selling price of each Quarter - $802.00
    Total for the Highest selling price of each Quarter- $1573.00
    Text
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A collector and contributor to some numismatic literature was in my office today. He looked over an IHC and the 2x2 said "$25" on it. He asked if he could have it for "$20". I said : "No, but you could have it for "$25". He said, "No thanks." Then he watched me take the 2x2 , grab a Sharpie, write "$35" over the top of $25 and put it back in the tray. He started laughing and said, "are you serious ? " ... I answered , "Yes, if you want it, I have a little wiggle room now". >>



    That's a good one TwoSides! Probably a lot of truth in that little story!

    It seems apparent that B&M's need too big of a margin to operate profitably over the long haul. Electronic auction sites seem destined to be the death of old-fashioned B&M shops. Instead of selling and/or buying from the little shop down the road, I'll simply buy and/or sell online. I live in SW Ohio and as a kid I recall many coin shops in our area, as times have passed so have the shops. J Cline got started in Dayton, David Bowers in Oakwood..... The mere impression that B&M's "screw the pooch" will only facilitate their demise.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.


  • << <i>Action prices realized on the last 4 sales of each Quarter as per PCGS website (the facts)
    1942-s MS-66
    $360
    $604
    $327
    $633

    1940-d MS-65
    $219
    $280
    $249
    $363

    1935 MS-66
    $150
    $90
    $173
    $161

    1942-D MS-66
    $137
    $107
    $165
    $202

    1941 MS-66
    $164
    $202
    $59
    $94

    total for the lowest selling price of each Quarter - $802.00
    Total for the Highest selling price of each Quarter- $1573.00
    Text
    >>



    Yep, now take off 15% buyers fee, 5% sellers fee and wait 45 days for payment. So, that's $665 net after 45 days, provided no coin was returned. Or take $350 now.


    TRUTH
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Action prices realized on the last 4 sales of each Quarter as per PCGS website (the facts)
    1942-s MS-66
    $360
    $604
    $327
    $633

    1940-d MS-65
    $219
    $280
    $249
    $363

    1935 MS-66

    $150
    $90
    $173
    $161

    1942-D MS-66
    $137
    $107
    $165
    $202

    1941 MS-66
    $164
    $202
    $59
    $94

    total for the lowest selling price of each Quarter - $802.00
    Total for the Highest selling price of each Quarter- $1573.00
    Text
    >>



    Yep, now take off 15% buyers fee, 5% sellers fee and wait 45 days for payment. So, that's $665 net after 45 days, provided no coin was returned. Or take $350 now.


    TRUTH



    Naturally you used the LOWEST numbers for each and every sale.......... you made my point! Thank You!
    image
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • I must say, the seller wants an offer, the buyer does the research and pays what he/she is fair. The seller can say no.

    We have the luxury of doing research at home to find prices on the internet. The seller expects to get the highest price, while the buyer expects to buy at the lowest price. The B&M doesn't have the luxury of spending a lot of time researching to make the highest offer at the office, only the fairest offer for his/her business. After all is said and done $350 was fair for coins the B&M didn't necessarily want. If you gave the coins on consignment, the price would be higher, but the coins may or may not get sold. If the same coins went to auction on Teletrade, you may net higher, but the coins can be returned. Each decision has plus or minuses, but the rushed seller never sees that. A mature seller would know how the coin market works.


    TRUTH
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I must say, the seller wants an offer, the buyer does the research and pays what he/she is fair. The seller can say no.

    We have the luxury of doing research at home to find prices on the internet. The seller expects to get the highest price, while the buyer expects to buy at the lowest price. The B&M doesn't have the luxury of spending a lot of time researching to make the highest offer at the office, only the fairest offer for his/her business. After all is said and done $350 was fair for coins the B&M didn't necessarily want. If you gave the coins on consignment, the price would be higher, but the coins may or may not get sold. If the same coins went to auction on Teletrade, you may net higher, but the coins can be returned. Each decision has plus or minuses, but the rushed seller never sees that. A mature seller would know how the coin market works.



    And THAT is a great post! I have no problem with this analysis....



    image
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... >>

    This is the point where you say "No need to offer- thanks for looking. I'll try somewhere else."
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>In this case I would side with the B&M

    Sorry if the truth hurts that's life >>


    image

    The store really did not want the coins, and you pushed for an offer. What were you expecting, ONE MILLION DOLLARS?

    image >>



    image
    Genius !
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I contend the B&M guy is in the business to do BOTH buy and sell! Making money at both ends of the deal! To offer 1/3 of the GS bid price is eggregious! I'd prefer that he simply say that he was not interested in the coins rather than attempt to fleece me. The idea that the coins were illiquid to him is unbelievable. It was not a 32D or S, or 36D, they were semi-keys in very nice condition.

    If a dealer doesn't want to work both ends of a transaction, that is buy and sell, then I don't need to constantly feed him my cash. I don't begrudge him a profit, but I don't appreciate the robbery without a gun! >>

    Actually, it sounds like you do begrudge him a profit. So, when you called the folks at the Greysheet, what did they offer? image

    You obviously have a relationship with this dealer and, I assume, he has a sense you know something about coins, so what makes you think he is trying to "fleece" you or "rob you with a gun?" Is he really so dull that he will try and rip a long-time customer over some freakin' common Washingtons? Maybe the coins are not as liquid as you think. Just because you bought them doesn't mean that there is a line forming behind you to buy them. Did you buy them from him? Did you ask his price on Washington quarters he has in stock? You never know ... maybe all of his MS Washingtons are priced at only 1/2 Greysheet.

    Sorry, but your tantrum seems inane. You have done business with the owner for "years" and you are going to let what you perceive as a low offer offend you to this degree and throw him under the bus? Really? Somehow I don't think he will be missing you.

    How about from the dealer's perspective? He graciously set aside a wanted item for you at a fair price (and based on your rant, I bet the price was really low otherwise you would be complaining about getting the shaft) and then you turn around and try to unload a group of cadavers that move slower than prisoners on a death march. Then you get pi$$y when he doesn't match your idea of a fair price. And now you are squealing to an online forum about being the poor victim of this evil, greedy, whiny, thankless dealer.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You obviously have a relationship with this dealer and, I assume, he has a sense you know something about coins, so what makes you think he is trying to "fleece" you or "rob you with a gun?" Is he really so dull that he will try and rip a long-time customer over some freakin' common Washingtons? Maybe the coins are not as liquid as you think. Just because you bought them doesn't mean that there is a line forming behind you to buy them. Did you buy them from him? Did you ask his price on Washington quarters he has in stock? You never know ... maybe all of his MS Washingtons are priced at only 1/2 Greysheet.

    Sorry, but your tantrum seems inane. You have done business with the owner for "years" and you are going to let what you perceive as a low offer offend you to this degree and throw him under the bus? Really? Somehow I don't think he will be missing you.

    How about from the dealer's perspective? He graciously set aside a wanted item for you at a fair price (and based on your rant, I bet the price was really low otherwise you would be complaining about getting the shaft) and then you turn around and try to unload a group of cadavers that move slower than prisoners on a death march. Then you get pi$$y when he doesn't match your idea of a fair price. And now you are squealing to an online forum about being the poor victim of this evil, greedy, whiny, thankless dealer. >>



    Excellently stated. Use this incident as a learning tool for future relationships with other dealers.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It would be hard for anyone to value those quarters via GS, as GS does not go beyond MS65. In addition, the 1940-D is a tough date and has a GS value of $245 at bid. The guy was surely lowballing you on price, perhaps because he has no buyer and really did not want them. Other than this info, I agree with most of what others have said. >>



    I agree with you. The 40D's are elusive even now that Washington Quarters have lanquished. I'd pay $225 for the 40D by itself as long as it's not a bluesheet coin!
  • JohnMabenJohnMaben Posts: 957 ✭✭✭
    Not doing business with this dealer hurts you. If he gets nice coins occasionally that you can buy right why would you cut your nose off to spite your face? I have found that there are many dealers you can ONLY buy from, many you can ONLY sell to, and only some that you can do both. You allowed the offer to bruise you by taking it personally. It wasn't personal.

    John

    John Maben
    Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
    ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
    800-381-2646

  • ajmanajman Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭
    I think that this age old adage will always ring true, that any given item is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I have bought numerous coins over the years that at the time, I thought I scored only to be pulled back into reality when it came time to sell.
    Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I refuse to do business with the World. It will not pay me what my house was worth in 2007!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,749 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For the record, I bought an NGC three coin set of ms66 (high, low, regular leaf) Wisconsin quarters from you years ago! Those are obviously underwater, but I have never criticized EERC!!! LOL.

    My crystal ball says they will be hot some day. Just look at the Cherrypicker's Guide 5th edition edited by Ken Potter. The negativity has all but evaporated (except for TexasNational's posts) >>



    Good morning, Rick!
    Still here, but not feeling any need to excoriate an expired equine!
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,749 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>$350 was a bit low but not by much. When it comes to stuff like that I will first pass and if the person insists on an offer I will make one with full disclosure that it is not an area where I am the strongest and I really don't want to offend them. If they still insist, all bets are off when it comes to the seller complaining about the offer. Things would be different if you were actually selling a product that was more easily salable both retail and wholesale. >>



    Didn't I teach you anything? Stop using logic! It never works!

    BTW, do you still have the remnants of that slabbed Washington deal we bought back in '09?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I refuse to do business with the World. It will not pay me what my house was worth in 2007! >>



    The offer was not close to CURRENT market....

    Your analogy is silly.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>He starts whining that no one ever asks for these, they will sit here for years and years before I can unload them. Etc, etc, etc.... >>

    This is the point where you say "No need to offer- thanks for looking. I'll try somewhere else." >>



    Mr. Potatohead... your point is right on!

    Thanks for your insight.


    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • .........................image...................
    ......Larry........image
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

    You mean, kinda like when a BANK pays less than 1% on a money market account yet charges 10% on loans, 25% on credit cards, plus assorted monthly fees just for the privilege of letting your money sit in their vault?
    Something like that?


    Sigh. Yet another thread from someone who thinks that:
    a) Greysheet values are carved in stone,
    b) All B/M dealers should pay Sheet if not higher for anything offered to them (yet, somehow, still be able to sell at or under sheet, and certainly not much over),
    c) It shouldn't matter if the guy doesn't have a local market for the item or has multiples in inventory...because all dealers should have the same market for everything, at all times,
    d) My coins are all premium for the grade (because I own them) and every dealer should immediately turn into a drooling mongoloid as soon as he sees them- and pay whatever I want,
    e) If a dealer makes more than a "reasonable amount" of X% on anything (X decided by me, not him)- he's a crook.
    f) Despite the fact that the dealer affords me free grading/authenticity opinions, free advice, free layaways, etc....unless every deal goes 110% my way, he's a crook.
    g) When a dealer says he doesn't really have a home for these, he's obviously lying and I should keep pressing him for an offer.
    h) Anyone thinking differently is a dealer, dealer apologist, or just an idiot who obviously knows nothing about the "real market" that we advanced uber-collectors all have the inside skinny on.

    Your thread title is strangely apropos...with enough 'customers' sharing the above philosophies, more B&Ms will indeed "bite the dust".

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IMHO, a successful relationship involves some degree of symbiosis. I am willing to pay a price that provides a seller a reasonable profit, and if/when I sell a coin I would appreciate a reasonable offer. His offer was unreasonable, and does not foster goodwill. Rather, I felt as though I was getting screwed.

    You mean, kinda like when a BANK pays less than 1% on a money market account yet charges 10% on loans, 25% on credit cards, plus assorted monthly fees just for the privilege of letting your money sit in their vault?
    Something like that?


    Sigh. Yet another thread from someone who thinks that:
    a) Greysheet values are carved in stone,
    b) All B/M dealers should pay Sheet if not higher for anything offered to them (yet, somehow, still be able to sell at or under sheet, and certainly not much over),
    c) It shouldn't matter if the guy doesn't have a local market for the item or has multiples in inventory...because all dealers should have the same market for everything, at all times,
    d) My coins are all premium for the grade (because I own them) and every dealer should immediately turn into a drooling mongoloid as soon as he sees them- and pay whatever I want,
    e) If a dealer makes more than a "reasonable amount" of X% on anything (X decided by me, not him)- he's a crook.
    f) Despite the fact that the dealer affords me free grading/authenticity opinions, free advice, free layaways, etc....unless every deal goes 110% my way, he's a crook.
    g) When a dealer says he doesn't really have a home for these, he's obviously lying and I should keep pressing him for an offer.
    h) Anyone thinking differently is a dealer, dealer apologist, or just an idiot who obviously knows nothing about the "real market" that we advanced uber-collectors all have the inside skinny on.

    Your thread title is strangely apropos...with enough 'customers' sharing the above philosophies, more B&Ms will indeed "bite the dust". >>



    Very Strange......

    Read any of my posts throughout this forum and I have not said any of the things you referenced.

    Very strange indeed!

    image
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How weird.

    I'm looking to trade some nice heraldic eagle type coins for Washington quarters.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,615 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Bankerbob as you now realize there are a lot of coins that are one way sales. That's why every collector should try to sell a couple of coins every once in a while. It really makes for an education. Now on a more positive note there is Ebay. Everything will sell but for the right price. Bigger audience higher selling price. Those pieces would sell nicely on ebay. >>



    You are spot on!

    I believe that more and more buyers/sellers are "retreating" to the internet for transactions and this is one very big reason - one-way transactions. B&M's cannot or will not compete with the electronic medium. I will still visit B&M's out of curiousity, but they will no longer be my first source for buying or selling. They simply don't meet my needs on several fronts. >>



    I appreciate your thoughts. Rather than being combative with regards to your situation, I think many could use this thread as an opportunity to dialogue, in order to improve the industry instead of destroying it with negativity. Not meaning to be attacking any valid points being made.

    P.S.
    I do empathize.
  • BanemorthBanemorth Posts: 986 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Bankerbob as you now realize there are a lot of coins that are one way sales. That's why every collector should try to sell a couple of coins every once in a while. It really makes for an education. Now on a more positive note there is Ebay. Everything will sell but for the right price. Bigger audience higher selling price. Those pieces would sell nicely on ebay. >>



    You are spot on!

    I believe that more and more buyers/sellers are "retreating" to the internet for transactions and this is one very big reason - one-way transactions. B&M's cannot or will not compete with the electronic medium. I will still visit B&M's out of curiousity, but they will no longer be my first source for buying or selling. They simply don't meet my needs on several fronts. >>



    I appreciate your thoughts. Rather than being combative with regards to your situation, I think many could use this thread as an opportunity to dialogue, in order to improve the industry instead of destroying it with negativity. Not meaning to be attacking any valid points being made.

    P.S.
    I do empathize. >>



    Twosides I couldn't agree more. Read through the whole thread and I can't believe how nasty some people can be. Whatever happened to common courtesy and reasonable discussion?

    Anyway....

    I don't see the offer as being insultingly out of line. He offered what he thought he could afford factoring in overhead and whatnot. B&M's will *never* pay top dollar. I have never sold at a B&M nor do I ever intend to. I've went for offers a few times and never were they right for me. You'd probably have more luck visiting a few booths at a local coin show or just throwing them on the BST/Ebay.

    I do understand your frustration!

    image
    Justin From Jersey

    Successful Transactions With: JoeLewis, Mkman123, Harry779, Grote15, gdavis70, Kryptonitecomics
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sigh. Yet another thread from someone who thinks that:
    a) Greysheet values are carved in stone,
    b) All B/M dealers should pay Sheet if not higher for anything offered to them (yet, somehow, still be able to sell at or under sheet, and certainly not much over),
    c) It shouldn't matter if the guy doesn't have a local market for the item or has multiples in inventory...because all dealers should have the same market for everything, at all times,
    d) My coins are all premium for the grade (because I own them) and every dealer should immediately turn into a drooling mongoloid as soon as he sees them- and pay whatever I want,
    e) If a dealer makes more than a "reasonable amount" of X% on anything (X decided by me, not him)- he's a crook.
    f) Despite the fact that the dealer affords me free grading/authenticity opinions, free advice, free layaways, etc....unless every deal goes 110% my way, he's a crook.
    g) When a dealer says he doesn't really have a home for these, he's obviously lying and I should keep pressing him for an offer.
    h) Anyone thinking differently is a dealer, dealer apologist, or just an idiot who obviously knows nothing about the "real market" that we advanced uber-collectors all have the inside skinny on.

    Your thread title is strangely apropos...with enough 'customers' sharing the above philosophies, more B&Ms will indeed "bite the dust".

    Very Strange......

    Read any of my posts throughout this forum and I have not said any of the things you referenced.

    Very strange indeed!

    image


    Said directly, no... But at least half those points can be inferred from your previous posts. "All dealers are crooks" threads are commonplace here so I thought I'd save time by covering all the usual bases before the rest of the peanut gallery piles on.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> imagine my chagrin when I offered a local, big B&M ...PCGS MS70 1991-1995 1 oz gold eagles ......where the B&M offered to buy - 3 % under spot >>



    Are you serious? The market for 1oz pcgs70 age's is incredibly thin yet you're expecting your local B&M to offer you a premium for them? How many 1oz AGE pcgs 70 slab collectors do you think walk into that shop on a weekly basis? >>



    take a look at apmex prices both buy and sell .......also youall forgot the coin computer net where many coins are traded among dealers.. any gold eagle should bring min. spot and a PCGS more
  • DD Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭
    These threads have done nothing but create a negative atmosphere on the forums today. This thread, that thread; any of the threads involving bashing or consistent criticizing. People on the forums policing one another for posting letters with blurred addresses, people complaining about B&M dealers, and people complaining at one another.

    Why so set on reciting differences and not content with celebrating similarities? Sarcasm, anger, and necessity never drive solid thoughts or good bargains.

    -D
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    -Aristotle

    Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.

    -Horace
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Bankerbob as you now realize there are a lot of coins that are one way sales. That's why every collector should try to sell a couple of coins every once in a while. It really makes for an education. Now on a more positive note there is Ebay. Everything will sell but for the right price. Bigger audience higher selling price. Those pieces would sell nicely on ebay. >>



    You are spot on!

    I believe that more and more buyers/sellers are "retreating" to the internet for transactions and this is one very big reason - one-way transactions. B&M's cannot or will not compete with the electronic medium. I will still visit B&M's out of curiousity, but they will no longer be my first source for buying or selling. They simply don't meet my needs on several fronts. >>



    I appreciate your thoughts. Rather than being combative with regards to your situation, I think many could use this thread as an opportunity to dialogue, in order to improve the industry instead of destroying it with negativity. Not meaning to be attacking any valid points being made.

    P.S.
    I do empathize. >>



    Twosides I couldn't agree more. Read through the whole thread and I can't believe how nasty some people can be. Whatever happened to common courtesy and reasonable discussion?

    Anyway....

    I don't see the offer as being insultingly out of line. He offered what he thought he could afford factoring in overhead and whatnot. B&M's will *never* pay top dollar. I have never sold at a B&M nor do I ever intend to. I've went for offers a few times and never were they right for me. You'd probably have more luck visiting a few booths at a local coin show or just throwing them on the BST/Ebay.

    I do understand your frustration!

    image >>



    Thanks for a nice post.....

    I rarely sell coins from my collection. I simply thought that a B&M was a natural place to go to do some streamlining. They coins weren't dogs as some have implied, they were mostly pc66, I have upgraded my collection and just wanted to put these back out there.....

    I have not tried electonic medium since I do not have the equipment to photograph the coins which is essential for online selling.

    My experience was eye-opening, shocking, and discouraging.

    If/when I decide to sell my 14th place Registry Set of Washington Quarters I will put alot more thought into how I accomplish that transaction.

    image
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I simply thought that a B&M was a natural place to go to do some streamlining. >>

    Did you buy your coins at a B&M?
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure of one thing...that the OP has never been self-employed.

    For those of us who have been self-employed, we can fully understand the actions of the dealer.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I simply thought that a B&M was a natural place to go to do some streamlining. >>

    Did you buy your coins at a B&M? >>



    Many, many coins from B&m's, two or three dealers in particular. The Ultra High end stuff pc67's mostly from auctions and online connections.

    These pc65 and 66's were from B&M.

    This experience was just discouraging. When you buy the coin man it's a gem....go to sell it and it's an overgraded widget....

    Just tried to relate an experience, and make a connection as to why IMHO, B&M's face extinction. OBVIOUSLY, not all dealers treat customers in this manner. Two of my regular stops have lost my business because of this treatment. I have stated before that one particular dealer sold me a raw 64 SLQ accurately graded in my opinion, but when I upgraded the coin and took it back to the same dealer a few years later it was a whizzed coin worth just over melt. A few of these "deals" will either drive a person out of numismatics, or cause a certain degree of bitterness. So when I had a similar experience at yet another B&M I simply drew a conclusion and floated it here for some input and opinions.

    image
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Many, many coins from B&m's, two or three dealers in particular. The Ultra High end stuff pc67's mostly from auctions and online connections.

    These pc65 and 66's were from B&M.

    This experience was just discouraging. When you buy the coin man it's a gem....go to sell it and it's an overgraded widget.... >>

    Were these "widgets" offered to the dealers you bought them from?

    << <i>A few of these "deals" will either drive a person out of numismatics, or cause a certain degree of bitterness. >>

    If you assume that the way one dealer treats you is indicative of how all dealers act, I guess. I'd suggest that's not the case, however.
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭
    3 of the 5 were from the dealer I went to.

    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>3 of the 5 were from the dealer I went to. >>

    The coins were apparently nice enough (and priced appropriately) to buy in the first place, but it turns out this shop isn't the place to sell. Doesn't necessarily make them bad guys just because of that.

    edited to add...

    << <i>but when I upgraded the coin and took it back to the same dealer a few years later it was a whizzed coin worth just over melt. >>

    Hang around a coin shop long enough (or read this forum a while) and you'll hear the same sort of negative comments about the coins dealers have in their inventories. Just seems to be the way a lot of buyers (on both sides of the counter) operate.

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