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"If you don't mail it Registered, we won't pay off if there's a claim" * (update) *
DennisH
Posts: 14,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
I went to the Post Office this morning to mail a coin, Insured 1st Class plus a green signature return card. The clerk asked what I was mailing. I told him a coin. He said unless I mailed it Registered, the Post Office would not pay off a claim if it failed to arrive. I told him that in 17 years of mailing many hundreds of coins from many locations, I'd never been told that... or anything even remotely close to it. He didn't want to hear any of it.
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
When in doubt, don't.
0
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In short, they are wrong. It is spelled out specifically in their Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) that collectible coins can be insured for their collectible value.
-Paul
<< <i>I had that same problem. Link to my previous thread.
In short, they are wrong. It is spelled out specifically in their Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) that collectible coins can be insured for their collectible value.
-Paul >>
...it would be interesting to ask if they even knew what you're talking about.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>You should never tell them it is a coin. It is "merchandise" or "product" or "metal parts", but never a coin. The clerk might be confused in thinking about a regulation that does not let you insure cash. The clerk was wrong; you do not need to use Registered Mail. >>
I agree.
We all too often assume the person behind the counter is a completely capable employee who knows the rules and regulations of his/her business.
Need I elaborate?
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>You should never tell them it is a coin. It is "merchandise" or "product" or "metal parts", but never a coin. The clerk might be confused in thinking about a regulation that does not let you insure cash. The clerk was wrong; you do not need to use Registered Mail. >>
I agree.
We all too often assume the person behind the counter is a completely capable employee who knows the rules and regulations of his/her business.
Need I elaborate? >>
The problem here is, I knew he was dead wrong... but I could also tell with total clarity that he believed he was absolutely and unquestionably right -- and also that he had no interest whatsoever in engaging in a debate. I'm going to study up on the regulations cited in the thread above, then make an appointment to visit with the Postmaster.
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask?
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
They are allowed general questions as to the nature.
I've had a clerk accuse me of mailing a broken watch in order to collect insurance money. That mailing was going to PCGS.
Go figure?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
They are allowed general questions as to the nature.
I've had a clerk accuse me of mailing a broken watch in order to collect insurance money. That mailing was going to PCGS.
Go figure? >>
Do they repair broken watches, too?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>We all too often assume the person behind the counter is a completely capable employee who knows the rules and regulations of his/her business. >>
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
Sure, but it doesn't mean you have to answer with detail. I just let them know it's fragile, well packed, and not liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous. If it's going Media Mail, I'll let them know it's a book (or whatever else it is to qualify for Media). I NEVER tell them with any detail what is in the package.
<< <i>You get the feeling you could whip out a copy of the procedure manual and they would still disagree with you. >>
I do too. But I've still made notes about chapters, sections and specific items that I'll be sharing with the Postmaster this afternoon during our appointment.
<< <i>I know for a fact they'll pay off on regularly insured first-class mail for a coin. >>
Same here. I sent a package insured (not registered), it got lost, and after a few months, the USPS paid the value of the package based on a copy of the invoice that was inside.
You got a clerk who didn't know the rules but thought he did. As others said, never tell them a coin is inside. Then you won't get into this scenario.
I've had similar experiences with clerks who didn't know things such as the maximum value for insured mail or registered mail, for example. I just tell them, enter it into the computer and see if it takes that number. Somehow it always does.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
2) Like Paul said, the DMM says your clerk is wrong and you should just say "really? Last time I looked at your DMM, it disagreed with that. Can you show me any update that says what you are saying?"
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
They are allowed general questions as to the nature.
I've had a clerk accuse me of mailing a broken watch in order to collect insurance money. That mailing was going to PCGS.
Go figure? >>
What if a package going to PCGS or NGC? Do you assume they dont know what these companies are and just BS?
Proud recipient of Y.S. Award on 07/26/08.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
They are allowed general questions as to the nature.
I've had a clerk accuse me of mailing a broken watch in order to collect insurance money. That mailing was going to PCGS.
Go figure? >>
What if a package going to PCGS or NGC? Do you assume they dont know what these companies are and just BS? >>
I'll guarantee you that the folks at my postal counters do NOT know what PCGS/NGC are. Now, if I were in newport beach, I may not make that claim
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
...it's funny. why do these (some) gubmint employees have the mind-set that the general public is obligated to answer some of their nutty questions? they must think that they are expected to be bossy. is it an ego thing?
Box of 20
<< <i>The test for becoming a postal worker must be a very LOW hurdle to pass! >>
They have over half a million employees. Probably can't be too demanding if you want such a large number of employees. By way of comparison, McDonald's has 400,000 employees.
<< <i>...it's funny. why do these (some) gubmint employees have the mind-set that the general public is obligated to answer some of their nutty questions? they must think that they are expected to be bossy. is it an ego thing?
Far too many government employees are arrogant. 99% of them are union and know they won't suffer any consequences for their behavior and they know they have you over a barrel because you can't get what you need without going through them.
<< <i>I'm going to study up on the regulations cited in the thread above, then make an appointment to visit with the Postmaster. >>
I see little to no satisfaction coming from this exercise.
(Apologies to those who don't get the pictorial reference. Well, not really.)
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>Never ever tell them what is in your package. >>
Are they allowed to ask? >>
They are required to ask you if its Liquid, Fragile, Perishable or Hazardous. They should NEVER ask you what it is or render their personal opinions on what you can or cannot insure. Liquid, Fragile, Perishable, or Hazardous is directly related to possibly injuries that the mail carrier or USPS employees could incur should mishandling (due to mislabeling) suffer from should something occur. The questions are there for their safety.
They can advise you on the cheapest method or shipping should you ask.
They can advise you on the best or quickest method of shipping without prompting since its their jobs to maximize profits (income) for the USPS.
Other than that, they really should cite specific postal regulations as reasons for rejecting a shipment.
Folks must NEVER ever simply say they are mailing "coins" as the word is open to too many different interpretations and miscommunications. When you are mailing a coin you have sold as a collectible, you are mailing a collectible and should respond with that word should you be asked and feel the necessity to reply to specific information regarding your product.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I know you can't insure a money order. >>
That is sort of redundant since you can file a claim if one gets lost.
<< <i>He may be thinking coin=money vs. a collectable item. >>
That was my first thought too. You can't insure cash. But I don't think you can do that with Registered Mail either so who knows what the clerk was talking about.
Lance.
Bottom line, the clerk's message to me this morning was the verbatim interpretation of the Domestic Mail Manual that was given to me by the Postmaster this afternoon. We spoke about many things. At the end, I pointed out that a confusing manual (which he agreed it is) puts people at the individual branches in the position of having to make their interpretation of what it says. His interpretation is that anything which is money, in the event of a claim, can only be reimbursed up to a maximum of $15. I pointed out that it's clear to me -- based upon identical discussions I have had with two other Postmasters at other branches in another state (both of which differed from his opinion, yet were still different from each other) -- that Postal customers are caught in the middle of inconsistent and possibly inaccurate information.
I also pointed out that any claim payment or denial would be made by claim/inspection authorities at the St. Louis headquarters, and the only role a local branch would play is forwarding the required documentation to them. He agreed with that. When I then told him that my personal experience in talking to multiple people who had actually made claims, everyone who provided the necessary documentation had been paid their claim, he said maybe he should tell the clerks to let people ship however they want to, and let them deal with the folks in claims. I said I would appreciate that.
Meanwhile, my wife took my package -- now set up for Registered -- to another local branch. There, in discussing my plight with the manager, she was told -- and I'm going to quote her exact words -- "You're not allowed to insure money at all."
My next call will be to someone high up at the A.N.A, who hopefully has some insight into this can of worms and perhaps has someone in the national chain of command at the Post Office who can help me separate fact from fiction. I'm also going to recommend that they make this a topic of presentation at the next national convention.
Wish me luck.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Sure glad I didn't read this thread the day after I mailed it!
<< <i>At this point it reads like you are making a mountain out of a molehill. >>
I agree.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>My visit with the Postmaster was interesting and then some.
Bottom line, the clerk's message to me this morning was the verbatim interpretation of the Domestic Mail Manual that was given to me by the Postmaster this afternoon. We spoke about many things. At the end, I pointed out that a confusing manual (which he agreed it is) puts people at the individual branches in the position of having to make their interpretation of what it says. His interpretation is that anything which is money, in the event of a claim, can only be reimbursed up to a maximum of $15. I pointed out that it's clear to me -- based upon identical discussions I have had with two other Postmasters at other branches in another state (both of which differed from his opinion, yet were still different from each other) -- that Postal customers are caught in the middle of inconsistent and possibly inaccurate information.
I also pointed out that any claim payment or denial would be made by claim/inspection authorities at the St. Louis headquarters, and the only role a local branch would play is forwarding the required documentation to them. He agreed with that. When I then told him that my personal experience in talking to multiple people who had actually made claims, everyone who provided the necessary documentation had been paid their claim, he said maybe he should tell the clerks to let people ship however they want to, and let them deal with the folks in claims. I said I would appreciate that.
Meanwhile, my wife took my package -- now set up for Registered -- to another local branch. There, in discussing my plight with the manager, she was told -- and I'm going to quote her exact words -- "You're not allowed to insure money at all."
My next call will be to someone high up at the A.N.A, who hopefully has some insight into this can of worms and perhaps has someone in the national chain of command at the Post Office who can help me separate fact from fiction. I'm also going to recommend that they make this a topic of presentation at the next national convention.
Wish me luck. >>
Wasn't there someone who posted here right before the tale of the lost $2000 toned Peace dollar who said that he was only awarded $15 on a lost coin claim?
Sometimes you just have to realize you're not getting anywhere with these people, and it's better to try your luck with somebody else.
Mark
...good reason to shut down all post offices.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>
I also pointed out that any claim payment or denial would be made by claim/inspection authorities at the St. Louis headquarters, and the only role a local branch would play is forwarding the required documentation to them. He agreed with that. When I then told him that my personal experience in talking to multiple people who had actually made claims, everyone who provided the necessary documentation had been paid their claim, he said maybe he should tell the clerks to let people ship however they want to, and let them deal with the folks in claims. I said I would appreciate that.
. >>
When you look at the regulations for insurance claims, there is a specific section regarding coins and stamps:
"Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers."
See Section 4.1 g
Therefore, numismatic coins are not the same as "money".
<< <i>I only ship "merchandise." There is no need to tell them what is in the package. >>
Exactly. That's all I tell them. It's none of their business.
Eligible Items
* First-Class Mail®, First-Class Package Service and Priority Mail (including Critical Mail): available for merchandise only (i.e. you can not insure correspondence).
o Insured mail travels at the speed of the mail class it was purchased with
* Package Services pieces.
* Official government mail endorsed "Postage and Fees Paid"
* Note: Insured mail must be mailed from a physical Post Office™ location unless purchased online
* Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured up to its value, within the stated limits:
*
o Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00
o For Registered Mail™ items, including money, the maximum insured value is $25,000
+ An item worth more than this must still be declared at full value, but the maximum insurable limit is $25,000, customers wanting additional information (including pricing) for an item valued above $25,000 should be referred to their local Post Office..
o Important: Checks (including cashier's checks) are not considered cash, and cannot be insured other than for document reconstruction costs
* Collectibles (merchandise / currency) can be insured for the fair market value, as determined by a dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers (EOV evidence of value)
*
o When the claim is filed describing the item mailed as a collectible the USPS treats the merchandise as a collectible, requesting EOV.
o
+ Note: When a claim is filed as cash, the amount of indemnity is only $15.00 (as Money (currency / cash) above).
+ If a customer has additional questions about insuring collectibles refer them to the DMM section 609.4 or to their LPO.
* Gift cards may be insured for their full value only when sent by Registered Mail service. Otherwise, gift cards sent by Express Mail service (which includes Express Mail insurance) or another class of mail with merchandise insurance are protected only up to the maximum indemnity for cash and negotiable items - $15. Customers should check the terms of their gift cards as many are replaceable by the issuer if they are lost or stolen.
====================================================================================================
Appears the clerk could have been right.
DMM Section 609.4 or to their LPO (whatever that is) should yield a definitive answer.
Steve
<< <i>Wasn't there someone who posted here right before the tale of the lost $2000 toned Peace dollar who said that he was only awarded $15 on a lost coin claim? >>
The only similar thing I can recall is about a short while ago someone sent a Peace dollar to a potential client for sale at approximately $2,000 and when the potential client did not like the coin he returned it with only $200 or so of insurance and then the coin got "lost". Then there was a huge, messy thread and it might have been deleted.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>Wasn't there someone who posted here right before the tale of the lost $2000 toned Peace dollar who said that he was only awarded $15 on a lost coin claim? >>
The only similar thing I can recall is about a short while ago someone sent a Peace dollar to a potential client for sale at approximately $2,000 and when the potential client did not like the coin he returned it with only $200 or so of insurance and then the coin got "lost". Then there was a huge, messy thread and it might have been deleted. >>
Yes, this was not a problem with the postal clerk but a problem caused by a customer returning a package inadequately insured.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>1) Like Tom said, never tell them "it is a coin". "Collectible" is enough. I usually just say "something that I need to get to someone and unless you decide to run it over with a truck or use a hammer, we should be good to go".
2) Like Paul said, the DMM says your clerk is wrong and you should just say "really? Last time I looked at your DMM, it disagreed with that. Can you show me any update that says what you are saying?" >>
I agree with this, I always just say (if they even ask, some of them see me so much they dont ask me anything anymore) that it is a collectable and leave it at that. That usually is enough for them to not ask anything more.