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Guess the Altered Surfaces
messydesk
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One of these has altered surfaces, the other has a real grade. Which is which, and why?
John
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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I knew it would happen.
Hoard the keys.
The second has a somewhat-strange texture in the cheek area.
<< <i>The bottom one looks like it was rubbed with baking soda long ago, then retoned in an album. The top one looks like a MS64. >>
Eagle Eye has a more detailed description than I, but I pick #2 as well
<< <i>The first coin looks ok.
The second has a somewhat-strange texture in the cheek area. >>
Agreed
<< <i>The first coin looks ok.
The second has a somewhat-strange texture in the cheek area. >>
Yup. The cheek on the second coin was thumbed---a common tactic to dull shiney marks on a prime focal area to make them less obvious.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The first coin looks ok.
The second has a somewhat-strange texture in the cheek area. >>
Yup. The cheek on the second coin was thumbed---a common tactic to dull shiney marks on a prime focal area to make them less obvious. >>
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The second has a somewhat-strange texture in the cheek area.
I agree ... looks like the cheek was worked on the lower coin, and it's luster is subdued, probably from some type of wash/dip ... the top coin looks to have natural surfaces
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I'll say the second coin got altered surfaces.
I think they both may have been altered and both may or may not always slab because of it.
On #2 it looks like the cheek and neck have a messed with texture and the fields look polished.
On #1 it looks like it might have had something removed between the eye and the E and maybe something on the chin with some remains of whatever they added showing between the chin and 2 stars.
I might add that from my observation this is so subtle that i would have never picked it up had the question not been presented.
If dipped then it was light enough to preserve the edge tone, or dipped long ago... I'm guessing thumbing or very light friction polish of some sort.
Thanks for the educational and fun post along with superb pgotography...
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
AB
<< <i>the first coin looks to have had a spot of corrosion removed in front of lib's eyes which is apparent by the rest of the coin being original. The 2nd coin looks cleaned over dipped but still low end MA. >>
+1
I'd say the second one has been messed with. Less luster, more monotone.
Bottom one looks to have been treated somehow. Baking soda rub is a good guess.
Lance.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
AB
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Bottom Morgan the scrapes have been burnished to hide marks.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Obviously the top coin has been altered. >>
Why do you think that?
<< <i>The holder is causing me to question my eyes. If I'm correct in questioning them, then I need to expand my knowledge base as to what constitutes good vs. altered surfaces. >>
It's too bad that a more detailed explanation isn't offered along with the 'Altered Surface' label.
It's extremely subtle in my novice view.
It would be great if you would be kind enough to follow up and post what some of the brightest minds of the show say on this one...
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
<< <i>I have had coins come back with altered surfaces, I disagreed and resubmitted, next time it came back it was graded. What did i learn? >>
That detecting altered surfaces is inexact. That while there are coins that that will always grade and coins that will never grade, there are also coins that will sometimes grade, and that it is these coins that one needs to be able to identify from both the perspective of false-positive and false-negative for altered surfaces, as the former is something that could be a good buy and the latter something that could be a bad one.
<< <i>It would be great if you would be kind enough to follow up and post what some of the brightest minds of the show say on this one... >>
I plan on it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>The holder is causing me to question my eyes. If I'm correct in questioning them, then I need to expand my knowledge base as to what constitutes good vs. altered surfaces. >>
It's too bad that a more detailed explanation isn't offered along with the 'Altered Surface' label.
It's extremely subtle in my novice view.
It would be great if you would be kind enough to follow up and post what some of the brightest minds of the show say on this one... >>
I think it's quite difficult to determine at to what extent a surface could be altered.If a coin has been dipped or polished or chemicaly treated then the surface would be consided altered and still aGenuinecoin...but if it has been altered any other way such as tooling or etching..then it is Damaged.