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Need some training in conterfiet detection!!!!!!!
bosco5041
Posts: 1,303 ✭
I have been a collector for quite a few years and I am fairly comfortable with my grading skills.I was not very comfortable with my authenication skills so I only buy slabbed coins from the top TPG services. Now we have counterfiet slabs out there and from what I've read they are pretty good. I really love coin collecting and do not want to quit but I also don't want to buy counterfiet stuff.Going to the ANA seminar is something I can't do right now. What do you guys do to insure you don't buy counterfiet stuff other than relying on your expert dealer. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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<< <i>Need some training in conterfiet detection!!!!!!! >>
The first step is to learn how to spell it. It's counterfeit.
Don't ask me why. That stupid "I before E" rule is one of the dumbest "rules" ever invented for the English language, 'cause there are so many exceptions to it. (I lost the 1984 state spelling championship because I spelled "weird" as "wierd". Weird, huh?)
But I digress, as usual.
I've got a dinky little Bill Fivaz Counterfeit Detection guide that's spiral bound and will fit in a shirt pocket. It's an early edition, I guess.
It only covers the most commonly counterfeited stuff, I suspect- key dates, mostly- and won't be of any help at all with counterfeit slabs. I think those are a relatively rare and recent phenomenon, anyway.
PM your snailmail address and you can have it, if I can find it in my cluttered shelves. I seldom use it because I seldom buy key date coins or anything that's a major target of counterfeiters. And if and when I do, I buy slabs and rely on the folks here for advice. These forums are possibly your first and best line of defense, as I suspect you suspected.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
ebay counterfeit guides
hope this helps
1. Get the 2-DVD set 'Detecting Counterfeit and Altered U.S. Coins' by J. P. Martin (ANA, ca. $50)
2. There is also a companion ANA correspondence course book: Martin JP/Detecting Counterfeit and Altered U.S. Coins
3. Taxay D/Counterfeit, Mis-struck, and Unofficial U. S. Coins (out of print, but interesting reading)
4. Fivaz B/United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide (nice pics)
5. Oldies but goodies (tend to fall apart upon use, however): Devine J (‘Lonesome John’)/Detecting Counterfeit Coins, Book 1
Devine J (‘Lonesome John’)/Detecting Counterfeit Gold Coins, Book 2
6. Hanc*** V & Spanbauer L/Standard Catalog of Counterfeit and Altered United States Coins
There are also books on contemporary counterfeits (colonials, Capped Bust halves, etc.).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Counterfeiting thread on Ebay sold PCGS Morgan Dollar
knowledge and skill to detect counterfeits. It's the coin that counts, right?
bob
sorry buddy, welcome to earth
i would say only buy from well-known, supposedly skilled dealers but i've seen some pretty big names knowingly/unknowingly sell counterfeit/altered coins, it just happens
it is kinda tuff out there sometimes and i've not seen anyone to date that can catch everything
my advice is if you have a little extra spending cash IF the coins you buy merit the cost, just send everything off for authentication at PCGS
would it not be worth sleeping better at night? also you may have the chance to get a few upgrades as you could just send them off for regrade
keep good records for what you buy and from whom and if a problem arises you will have pcgs to back you
.
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<< <i>Need some training in conterfiet detection!!!!!!! >>
The first step is to learn how to spell it. It's counterfeit.
Don't ask me why. That stupid "I before E" rule is one of the dumbest "rules" ever invented for the English language, 'cause there are so many exceptions to it. (I lost the 1984 state spelling championship because I spelled "weird" as "wierd". Weird, huh?) >>
I'm always stubbing my toe on that one and souvenir which I want to spell souvenier!
The name is LEE!
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>This has nothing to do with spelling counterfeit but it is coin related. I find many ads, signs and business cards with the word collectibles spelled with an A instead of an I [eg.] collectables. It's collectibles! >>
My Webster's Student Dictionary has it spelled either way. Wikipedia has this:
"Although "collectable" is the spelling listed first for the adjective by the Oxford English Dictionary and is standard spelling in British English, the dictionary observes that the "-ible" form is also valid and this has come to be the common spelling in the United States."
Yes, I've been accused of being a spelling or grammar "Nazi".
Its almost a 'feel' that some people have, they can spot one laying a table five feet away.
Probably....give up. Trust the TPGs, buy only raw coins in series that have no counterfeit issues (no one counterfeits proof kennedy half dollars), or work through a 'real' dealer.
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<< <i>
My Webster's Student Dictionary has it spelled either way. Wikipedia has this:
"Although "collectable" is the spelling listed first for the adjective by the Oxford English Dictionary and is standard spelling in British English, the dictionary observes that the "-ible" form is also valid and this has come to be the common spelling in the United States."
Yes, I've been accused of being a spelling or grammar "Nazi".
I don't know which is worse, being a spelling Nazi or letting an acceptable spelling bother me when I see it. I have looked it up several times through the years and collectibles is always listed first [in American versions]. I use the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
<< <i>Don't worry about the slabs, worry about the coins. If you can grade properly you should have enough
knowledge and skill to detect counterfeits. It's the coin that counts, right?
>>
I thought this to be the case until I bought an 1893-CC Morgan off eBay in a fake slab. Turns out the thief had sliced a more common 1893 coin and mated the obverse with a more common (probably 82/3/4) CC dollar reverse. The coin actually graded quite close to the slab grade, and I couldn't see the slice down the middle because it was a PCGS slab which wouldn't reveal that part of the coin.
Luckily for me, the slab was just fake enough to detect. I have to admit that I didn't catch it at first, it wasn't until the actual owner of the cert # spoke up that he still owned the coin, when I tried to add it to my set registry. If not for that, I'd probably still have a fake $4k coin in my collection, and be none the wiser.
My point being, it isn't only enough to be able to grade coins, you also need to be aware of and keep an eye out for fake slabs. In the case above, the gasket was discolored, the hologram wasn't centered, the ink was slightly glossy and the font was just off. Obvious to me now, but not then.
<< <i>If it makes you feel better, more things than ever are coming back from NGC as "Authenticity Unverifiable". >>
Yeah, including two Roman coins in my last NGC Ancients submission. (I think they're real, and so do the dealers I bought them from, but surface issues make that unverifiable by NGC, who I suppose was just doing their job.)
Bosco- you need to go to your profile and activate your Private Message function. Send me a PM if you want this Fivaz booklet. Otherwise somebody else has expressed an interest in it.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I don't want to have to be a professional counterfeit detector to be a coin collector.
<< <i>I simply do not buy on eBay because of counterfeits, coin doctors, and other shady dealings. I am only willing to make purchases from Heritage, Stack's, and certain dealers that (a) have a good reputation and (b) are willing to talk to me and give me their honest advice/opinions. I end up paying a premium on my purchases and missing out on some deals, but I prefer to have the peace of mind that what I'm buying is real; in the case of a good coin dealer, I also get the benefit of their eye, their experience, and their opinion. >>
Sounds like you've taken one to many paranoid lessons.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>
<< <i>Need some training in counterfeit detection!!!!!!! >>
The first step is to learn how to spell it. It's counterfeit.
Don't ask me why. That stupid "I before E" rule is one of the dumbest "rules" ever invented for the English language, 'cause there are so many exceptions to it. (I lost the 1984 state spelling championship because I spelled "weird" as "wierd". Weird, huh?)
But I digress, as usual.
I've got a dinky little Bill Fivaz Counterfeit Detection guide that's spiral bound and will fit in a shirt pocket. It's an early edition, I guess.
It only covers the most commonly counterfeited stuff, I suspect- key dates, mostly- and won't be of any help at all with counterfeit slabs. I think those are a relatively rare and recent phenomenon, anyway.
PM your snailmail address and you can have it, if I can find it in my cluttered shelves. I seldom use it because I seldom buy key date coins or anything that's a major target of counterfeiters. And if and when I do, I buy slabs and rely on the folks here for advice. These forums are possibly your first and best line of defense, as I suspect you suspected. >>
...that's great Robertson! but whadda you got for counterfeit slab detection?