Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
Maybe they are having a hard time trying to find a box big enough.
<< <i>Agree with both the complainants, and those who defend PCGS's decision, (though Set vs. Package charges are unclear.) This info though, shouldn't have been a shut out after hours today. Hats off to those who have already sent their submissions in and avoided the additional charges. Condolences to those who intended to submit & haven't even received their Mint orders yet. Seems like an unfair punishment.
A sound financial business decision on PCGS's part, and not a debatable issue as usual (not even a clarification of charges.)
Moving on, does this change your mind about submitting your sets? >>
At 80 cents per coin, based on a box of 5, wouldn't change my mind about submitting. I would still submit. >>
Changed my mind instantly. Not due to added cost, dollars wise, but due to principal. Seems like a shady afterthought that PCGS saw some revenue potential in and took advantage. Especially taking advantage to loyal, long time customers--and I've only submitted once and joined this year!
<< <i>Could have also just held on to the OGP and shipped them back w/ the coins once graded... seems like shipping back the OGP separately contributed greatly to the costs involved. >>
Or is a "reason" to charge extra. We all know that the quantity of boxes and shipping supplies that PCGS, a mostly mail order business, buys is quite large. Thus, they have to have a substantial discount via a contracted supplier(s).
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty.
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer?
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
The packaging takes up space. Can you imagine the number of boxes of mint packaging sitting around waiting on coins to be graded. I am sure they don't have a lot of free space as it is, and modern service is 20-30 business days according to the submission form.
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
The packaging takes up space. Can you imagine the number of boxes of mint packaging sitting around waiting on coins to be graded. I am sure they don't have a lot of free space as it is, and modern service is 20-30 business days according to the submission form. >>
Good point, I had not considered that, 25,000 of these would certainly be a hassle. They did already charge **I believe** a $5 fee per set to send them back, I have in the past used this, it covers postage. Now for 5 sets it is(5 x $5) + $30 = $55 or $11 per set. Plus $14 grading + return postage. The coin grading is less than every other cost.
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too.
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too. >>
Finally, someone who is reasonable and doesn't have a stick up their arse when told the truth on these boards. Best of luck in any and all future endeavors, friend!
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too. >>
Finally, someone who is reasonable and doesn't have a stick up their arse when told the truth on these boards. Best of luck in any and all future endeavors, friend! >>
I appreciate that and look forward to interacting with you again sometime.
This does not effect my decision to send some sets to PCGS. However, it does add expense to an already expensive affair, and I kind of thought we were already paying for this.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505 Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880 Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS.
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505 Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880 Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
At the fees being charged to return the EMPTY boxes, I wonder if they truly do take up $20 or $30 worth of space in the same box the graded coins are returned in?
Or, is the OGP returned in a different box, insured for, say, $1,500 - this would account for what seems to be just another way to exploit the interest in these coins, and add to the bottom line ...
Seems a lot like B of A's approach to charging $5 a month for customers to access their own money... just another creative way to profit.
I decided to check the USPS website to determine the approximate cost to ship 1-5 OGP from SoCal to me here in NorCal, and have determined I'm in the wrong business...
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505 Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880 Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
Interesting. >>
Selling mine off now raw in part due to the "new premium on return packaging."
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505 Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880 Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
Interesting. >>
Selling mine off now raw in part due to the "new premium on return packaging." >>
Already sold three raw/sealed/singles and have another buyer for one at $980 shipped and have the last one on feeBay ending in a few days...PCGS totally has turned me off for these. Now, if the profits weren't so high for raw/sealed sets, I would think twice. However, I just don't see the advantage to spending time, money and waiting for the market to possibly fall off the deep end for my coins to be graded. I'd much rather take my profits now than risk only being able to break even or make half what I could currently make.
Obviously not bashing PCGS as a whole, just bashing the decisions made as of late.
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions. >>
When I just sold a set for $980 shipped via PP gift, I have ZERO incentive to get them graded, even by the cheaper NGC. I still have one set left. It's on feeBay for a super high price. If someone bites, so be it. If not, that's fine with me. I've already made $1600 after fees/shipping on four sets and still have another to either sell if the market goes up or to enjoy for myself. Thinking about buying up a 20th anny set to perhaps start an anniversary collection. That could get expensive quick though
Good luck to all who choose to grade. I can assure you that I will NOT be on that boat.
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions. >>
Sealed, secondary market going kaput as the cost rises to grade. Expense to grade sealed is "sealed fate." Those who wish to "pony up" and chance 70's will profit. Less in the offing wishing to chance chasing 70's.
I've got a bo5 I've been on the fence with. An extra $4-6 / set isn't going to break me or anybody else. What bothers me, and I think a lot of the others, is the rather heavy handed take it or leave it attitude presented here. Furthermore, I'm confused about the wording:
<< $20 – One or two 25th Anniversary Mint packages.>>
Is a package a package (shipping box), or is a package a set. If it's a set why didn't he say so. Confusing.
I thought PCGS was better than this.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
Key point would as mentioned earlier in this thread....
"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
I never could figure out why printing two words costs MORE than the actual grading process......oh, you get your packaging back....still seems like a lot but, oh well
Note to self: now it's $9/word WITHOUT the return packaging
Maybe $5/coin for the graders to use cotton gloves
"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"...
<< <i>Finally, I wouldn't pay $5 to get the Mint packaging back. First of all it is far from the quality of the UHR packaging, secondly, what are you going to do with it? >>
Well, one can buy the 2 money coins or crack out those which were graded low and then buy/get the other 3 commons which are already out and PRESTO you now have an $800 set as issued by the mint. Not everyone is picky about quality.
In case it hasn't been mentioned...The OGP's are mailed seperately from the coins, as such you have 2 mailings involved. I should be receiving my OGP's back shortly ... per PCGS: mailed 11/18...coins still in the pipeline.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>In case it hasn't been mentioned...The OGP's are mailed seperately from the coins, as such you have 2 mailings involved. I should be receiving my OGP's back shortly ... per PCGS: mailed 11/18...coins still in the pipeline. >>
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"... >>
Truer words were never spoken... and, presumably, spoken by so many in the days to come... heavy handed, changing the rules in the middle of the game, and the icing on the cake is charging for something your policies - at least BEFORE Nov. 18th at 5:38 PM or so - already stated were included in the COST!
Were you thinking, maybe, you'd LOWER the FS cost, or keep your SHIPPING charge at the same level?
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
Reminds me of a favorite quote:
Advertising: Defined as the art of arresting human intelligence long enough to get money from it.
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
To be honest I think the shipping charge for the box return is reasonable....it's the First Strike fee that is really dumb. It is a fee for nothing rendered....
<<To be honest I think the shipping charge for the box return is reasonable....it's the First Strike fee that is really dumb. It is a fee for nothing rendered.... >>
I'm with ya, the coins were struck months before they went onsale and sold out in 4 hours +or-. As far as I'm concerned they're all FS. The B&W insert is cool with me. Suprised the Mint doesn't offer a true FS program, first 5k struck or something similar, maybe 10k? How many ASE's are struck before the dies are retired?
If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives?
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"... >>
To be fair, I don't think anyone anticipated these set presentation boxes to be as heavy as they turned out to be and them being submitted as many as 5 at a time. PCGS can just add a disclaimer line to their policy that the return of OGP is free with the FS designation unless the weight exceeds a certain threshold. Other than that, some comments I think were derived from the "do you live with your parents" thread.
This to me is equivalent to standing in line at a business to acquire services. The policy for those services is clearly written behind the counter in bold print. Suddenly the manager of the store walks out and states that anyone in line will have to understand we have a new policy and the policy we did follow ceased as of 5:25 pm today. Everyone else will abide by our new policy and there is no grace period. Anyone that finds themselves under the new policy can either abide by it or you are free to leave.
For those that say they understand and accept that there is a cost involved to shipping is missing the point entirely. The point here is that a policy was set in place and that policy is now being changed without a grace period or warning.
I respect PCGS for admitting they could have handled this better and didn't anticipate the enormity of the submissions and the mint boxes involved. My only aversion is the sudden manner in which this was handled with the lack of a grace period.
That said, I appreciate the services PCGS provides and have an enormous respect for their business and their leadership.
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
This seems a bit drastic as I'm sure there is going to be people shipping out Saturday morning who missed this post and are now SOL on mint packaging that they thought was going to be returned.
<< <i>Mint packaging will not be returned for submissions received without prepayment. We will not accept phone calls requesting shipment after your submission has been received >>
A bit of a pre planning, inquiry, knowing what you are getting into seems warranted, IMO.
That the company does not know, now is charging significantly more $$$ for the return of OGP, is a poor reflection on the brand, under the circumstances presented here.
I think the point is that the $75/ 5 sets for FS should have covered it as stated..... >>
The First Strike guidelines states it includes the return of the mint packaging, however PCGS normally ships the mint packaging back together with the coins so the added shipping cost is not a significant factor. The problem is due to the size and volume of the 25th anniversary set mint packaging, PCGS is having to ship the mint packaging separately from the coins, I understand the 25th anniversary mint packaging costs more to ship than they had anticipated.
<< <i>To be fair, I don't think anyone anticipated these set presentation boxes to be as heavy as they turned out to be and them being submitted as many as 5 at a time. PCGS can just add a disclaimer line to their policy that the return of OGP is free with the FS designation unless the weight exceeds a certain threshold. Other than that, some comments I think were derived from the "do you live with your parents" thread. >>
To be fair, most sellers on the BST that sold on pre-sale didn't realize how quickly the price would spike. Seller should just add a disclaimer line to their sales agreement that they agree to sell unless the price spikes over a certain threshold. That way, I could have made enough money to move out of my parents house
Here's another reason to keep the boxes. In the past, if you got MS or PR 69's, it was worth more if you cracked them out and put them in the original boxes. Sometimes $100 more per set just for the 2006 silver sets. About $400 per set for the 2006 gold sets. Just another reason. Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
Maybe they are having a hard time trying to find a box big enough.
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree with both the complainants, and those who defend PCGS's decision, (though Set vs. Package charges are unclear.)
This info though, shouldn't have been a shut out after hours today. Hats off to those who have already sent their submissions in and avoided the additional charges.
Condolences to those who intended to submit & haven't even received their Mint orders yet. Seems like an unfair punishment.
A sound financial business decision on PCGS's part, and not a debatable issue as usual (not even a clarification of charges.)
Moving on, does this change your mind about submitting your sets? >>
At 80 cents per coin, based on a box of 5, wouldn't change my mind about submitting. I would still submit. >>
Changed my mind instantly. Not due to added cost, dollars wise, but due to principal. Seems like a shady afterthought that PCGS saw some revenue potential in and took advantage. Especially taking advantage to loyal, long time customers--and I've only submitted once and joined this year!
<< <i>Could have also just held on to the OGP and shipped them back w/ the coins once graded... seems like shipping back the OGP separately contributed greatly to the costs involved. >>
Or is a "reason" to charge extra. We all know that the quantity of boxes and shipping supplies that PCGS, a mostly mail order business, buys is quite large. Thus, they have to have a substantial discount via a contracted supplier(s).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
The packaging takes up space. Can you imagine the number of boxes of mint packaging sitting around waiting on coins to be graded. I am sure they don't have a lot of free space as it is, and modern service is 20-30 business days according to the submission form.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Does PCGS ship OGP back with the graded coins? If not, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me. >>
The packaging takes up space. Can you imagine the number of boxes of mint packaging sitting around waiting on coins to be graded. I am sure they don't have a lot of free space as it is, and modern service is 20-30 business days according to the submission form. >>
Good point, I had not considered that, 25,000 of these would certainly be a hassle. They did already charge **I believe** a $5 fee per set to send them back, I have in the past used this, it covers postage. Now for 5 sets it is(5 x $5) + $30 = $55 or $11 per set. Plus $14 grading + return postage. The coin grading is less than every other cost.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too. >>
Finally, someone who is reasonable and doesn't have a stick up their arse when told the truth on these boards. Best of luck in any and all future endeavors, friend!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Don,
Really? Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured; now PCGS sends it flat rate priority mail - I have sold on Ebay I know what shipping costs. Postage must now be at least a 60% margin business for you. Flat rate large boxes are $10, and you are charging what percentage over that, oh 200%. What's not to like about that as a customer. I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved, but when you already have healthy margins, already charge a fee to send stuff back, do you really think that it is not damaging to your effectiveness to turn return postage into a high margin profit center. It diminishes the perceived value of your other services. Did you work at B of A before PCGS? IS grading really as valuable as grading. My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion?
Brian >>
What you failed to realize, it takes man hours to move the product to shipping, have shipping pack the OGPs, printout for documentation, and sealing the product. I don't know if that will account for the markup, but it does affect it. >>
Apparently you can't read: I said: " I run my own business, I understand there is real cost involved,.." >>
Would you talk to a customer like that? If so, I would hate to be a customer of yours. Just chill out. No need to get nasty. >>
In what way does the way he replied to you have anything to do with how he would talk to a customer? >>
Good point. I prefer to have a civil dialogue. I run a business, too. >>
Finally, someone who is reasonable and doesn't have a stick up their arse when told the truth on these boards. Best of luck in any and all future endeavors, friend! >>
I appreciate that and look forward to interacting with you again sometime.
It should read "five packages of five sets".
Literally, five sets of five packages would be 125 Anniversary Sets if each package contained 5 Anniversary Sets.
anyone notice that this was his 666th post?
<< <i>
anyone notice that this was his 666th post? >>
Actually, 665th. He replied once in this thread, putting him at 666.
Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880
Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS.
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505
Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880
Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
Interesting.
Or, is the OGP returned in a different box, insured for, say, $1,500 - this would account for what seems to be just another way to exploit the interest in these coins, and add to the bottom line ...
Seems a lot like B of A's approach to charging $5 a month for customers to access their own money... just another creative way to profit.
I decided to check the USPS website to determine the approximate cost to ship 1-5 OGP from SoCal to me here in NorCal, and have determined I'm in the wrong business...
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505
Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880
Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
Interesting. >>
Selling mine off now raw in part due to the "new premium on return packaging."
the change should take affect after the FS submission cutoff date.
i received mine today.
.
<< <i>Actually >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Total purchase cost for 5 sets = $1505
Total grading cost for 5 sets modern tier with return of packaging = $880
Total cost for 5 graded sets = $2,385, so average cost of graded set = $477, plus postage for delivery to PCGS. >>
So say someone gets all 69's or less...that means that selling at the current $700-$800 average prices, one would only make about $300 on each set. Instead, someone could sell all 5 sets sealed (single or quantity of 5 in one box) and make MUCH more money and not have to deal with sending to PCGS...
Interesting. >>
Selling mine off now raw in part due to the "new premium on return packaging." >>
Already sold three raw/sealed/singles and have another buyer for one at $980 shipped and have the last one on feeBay ending in a few days...PCGS totally has turned me off for these. Now, if the profits weren't so high for raw/sealed sets, I would think twice. However, I just don't see the advantage to spending time, money and waiting for the market to possibly fall off the deep end for my coins to be graded. I'd much rather take my profits now than risk only being able to break even or make half what I could currently make.
Obviously not bashing PCGS as a whole, just bashing the decisions made as of late.
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions.
<< <i>Obi/Jeremy, my sentiments exactly.
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions. >>
When I just sold a set for $980 shipped via PP gift, I have ZERO incentive to get them graded, even by the cheaper NGC. I still have one set left. It's on feeBay for a super high price. If someone bites, so be it. If not, that's fine with me. I've already made $1600 after fees/shipping on four sets and still have another to either sell if the market goes up or to enjoy for myself. Thinking about buying up a 20th anny set to perhaps start an anniversary collection. That could get expensive quick though
Good luck to all who choose to grade. I can assure you that I will NOT be on that boat.
<< <i>Obi/Jeremy, my sentiments exactly.
I think many of us have been on the fence given the great ungraded/sealed secondary market...granted that secondary market is somewhat driven by the certified 70 hunt. This may seal some decisions. >>
Sealed, secondary market going kaput as the cost rises to grade. Expense to grade sealed is "sealed fate." Those who wish to "pony up" and chance 70's will profit. Less in the offing wishing to chance chasing 70's.
I've got a bo5 I've been on the fence with. An extra $4-6 / set isn't going to
break me or anybody else. What bothers me, and I think a lot of the others,
is the rather heavy handed take it or leave it attitude presented here.
Furthermore, I'm confused about the wording:
<< $20 – One or two 25th Anniversary Mint packages.>>
Is a package a package (shipping box), or is a package a set.
If it's a set why didn't he say so. Confusing.
I thought PCGS was better than this.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
I never could figure out why printing two words costs MORE than the actual grading process......oh, you get your packaging back....still seems like a lot but, oh well
Note to self: now it's $9/word WITHOUT the return packaging
Maybe $5/coin for the graders to use cotton gloves
$1/piece of tape to seal the box
Sounds like Spirit Airlines
Pass the Kool Aid
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"...
<< <i>Finally, I wouldn't pay $5 to get the Mint packaging back. First of all it is far from the quality of the UHR packaging, secondly, what are you going to do with it? >>
Well, one can buy the 2 money coins or crack out those which were graded low and then buy/get the other 3 commons which are already out and PRESTO you now have an $800 set as issued by the mint. Not everyone is picky about quality.
<< <i>In case it hasn't been mentioned...The OGP's are mailed seperately from the coins, as such you have 2 mailings involved. I should be receiving my OGP's back shortly ... per PCGS: mailed 11/18...coins still in the pipeline. >>
Same here.
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"... >>
Truer words were never spoken... and, presumably, spoken by so many in the days to come... heavy handed, changing the rules in the middle of the game, and the icing on the cake is charging for something your policies - at least BEFORE Nov. 18th at 5:38 PM or so - already stated were included in the COST!
Were you thinking, maybe, you'd LOWER the FS cost, or keep your SHIPPING charge at the same level?
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
Reminds me of a favorite quote:
Advertising: Defined as the art of arresting human intelligence long enough to get money from it.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
I'm with ya, the coins were struck months before they went onsale and sold out in 4 hours +or-.
As far as I'm concerned they're all FS. The B&W insert is cool with me. Suprised the Mint doesn't offer
a true FS program, first 5k struck or something similar, maybe 10k? How many ASE's are struck before the dies
are retired?
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives?
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
Sometimes a company just needs to bite the bullet and make a little less profit by standing by their word and maintaining goodwill and reputation.
This added charge for retun of OGP is on the same level of individuals renegging on their agreed upon "deals"... >>
This is exactly right.
<< <i>What bothers me, and I think a lot of the others,
is the rather heavy handed take it or leave it attitude presented here. >>
Agreed.
Coinfusious say - little bit of nectar in the flower makes a lot of honey.
<<To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision.>>
Giving your customers even a day or two notice would have gone a long way.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
For those that say they understand and accept that there is a cost involved to shipping is missing the point entirely. The point here is that a policy was set in place and that policy is now being changed without a grace period or warning.
I respect PCGS for admitting they could have handled this better and didn't anticipate the enormity of the submissions and the mint boxes involved. My only aversion is the sudden manner in which this was handled with the lack of a grace period.
That said, I appreciate the services PCGS provides and have an enormous respect for their business and their leadership.
<< <i>Mint packaging will not be returned for submissions received without prepayment. We will not accept phone calls requesting shipment after your submission has been received >>
A bit of a pre planning, inquiry, knowing what you are getting into seems warranted, IMO.
That the company does not know, now is charging significantly more $$$ for the return of OGP, is a poor reflection on the brand, under the circumstances presented here.
<< <i>What's $30 more? The boxes are heavy.... >>
I think the point is that the $75/ 5 sets for FS should have covered it as stated.....
<< <i>
<< <i>What's $30 more? The boxes are heavy.... >>
I think the point is that the $75/ 5 sets for FS should have covered it as stated..... >>
The First Strike guidelines states it includes the return of the mint packaging, however PCGS normally ships the mint packaging back together with the coins so the added shipping cost is not a significant factor. The problem is due to the size and volume of the 25th anniversary set mint packaging, PCGS is having to ship the mint packaging separately from the coins, I understand the 25th anniversary mint packaging costs more to ship than they had anticipated.
<< <i>To be fair, I don't think anyone anticipated these set presentation boxes to be as heavy as they turned out to be and them being submitted as many as 5 at a time. PCGS can just add a disclaimer line to their policy that the return of OGP is free with the FS designation unless the weight exceeds a certain threshold. Other than that, some comments I think were derived from the "do you live with your parents" thread. >>
To be fair, most sellers on the BST that sold on pre-sale didn't realize how quickly the price would spike. Seller should just add a disclaimer line to their sales agreement that they agree to sell unless the price spikes over a certain threshold. That way, I could have made enough money to move out of my parents house