<< <i>PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Sure...
No disrespect intended, Sir, but I'm just a guy making my way through life, and people are volunteering to pay me more that I paid for the sets that they want. I fully intended to keep the sets I ordered. The supply and demand of the market drives THAT aspect in this instance... and, it's temporary - and rare - to boot.
Did PCGS ask for volunteers to pay additional fees, or an extra cost - significant at that - to send back what they always had before, and without charge?
Please understand that like many others, I, too, appreciate the value and benefit of graded coins... but this is just a little over the top. It may be that the rationale you note is, after all, justified, but...
It would have been far more appropriate to have developed this arbitrary policy in anticipation of the volume which, I can only guess, should have been as eagerly expected, and logistically planned for as it was hotly debated since the sets introduction was announced. If the magnitude of this situation elicited the inevitable cost-vs-benefit analysis (as it must surely have done), then once the process began, well, sir, you ought to have announced this change as of a future date, and taken your lumps. As it stands, some beat the clock, and others have to pay the piper.
Seems a bit unfair to me, that's all.
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>To be fair, I don't think anyone anticipated these set presentation boxes to be as heavy as they turned out to be and them being submitted as many as 5 at a time. PCGS can just add a disclaimer line to their policy that the return of OGP is free with the FS designation unless the weight exceeds a certain threshold. Other than that, some comments I think were derived from the "do you live with your parents" thread. >>
To be fair, most sellers on the BST that sold on pre-sale didn't realize how quickly the price would spike. Seller should just add a disclaimer line to their sales agreement that they agree to sell unless the price spikes over a certain threshold. That way, I could have made enough money to move out of my parents house >>
i'll still be your friend taxmad, what time are we going to storm the castle?
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission." >>
>>
Isn't this considered false advertising or is this wording being removed from the First Strike option?
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Your replies really show the lack of appreciation PCGS has for it's customers.
Has anyone figured out how many OGPs you could reasonably fit into a large flat rate priority box, provided you leave some space for padding of some sort? Looks like you should be able to fit five but I haven't been able to check.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
"Your replies really show the lack of appreciation PCGS has for it's customers."
Silverman - To be honest, I find Don's responses to be reasonable. To summarize, PCGS wants to charge $30 to mail back the 13 pound carton filled with 5 boxes and other stuff ... right? It appears some argue that the actual cost is really about $10-$15 and PCGS is pocketing the other $15 making this a "profit center" with a 100% markup ... right? Of course, we are not taking into account the labor in preparing the shipment for return to the submittor, the labor in PCGS security transporting the shipments of "modern crap packaging" to the mailing facilities, the labor in PCGS Customer service fielding calls from customers inquiring about there modern crap packaging, etc., etc., etc. All covered under the $15 surplus PCGS has earmarked for itself to cover all the sundry expenses. Not to mention, this is an entirely optional charge where any customer can simply state "toss my modern crap packaging" in the dumpster please and, to be fair, Don is suggesting that as a viable course of action (showing Don is truly not interested in this "profit center" ... right?)
True story: I took back my hundreds upon hundreds of empty silver 3-pc. boxes from the 2006 20th Anniversary campaign with PCGS (why not ... right). About a year or two later, I hired a garbage company for $70 to haul my modern crap packaging away (that or face the problems with the wife who could not stand looking at it any more), but I kept 100 units to consign to a local dealer to sell for me on ebay and about another 50 in my garage to provide to that dealer if he needed them. About two years later, I think I got paid my roughly $1/box net proceeds from 2 years of ebay auctions covering those 100 boxes. I roughly broke even for the $70 I had previously paid for the trashman to haul the lions share away previously (and that dealer has passed on other "interesting" consignments of a like nature since then as well).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Just curious if those who have the convenience of dropping off boxes of these sets avoid the cost of having them opened stored and prepared for pick up.
Since people are devoted to shipping back empty boxes are those who have to pay the $20 - $30 per box covering the people hours that are handling the drop off and pick up boxes as well
<< <i>Is it possible to get more employees "devoted" to updating the pop report in real time? That decision may serve your customers well. >>
If you want your grades included in the POP report that will be $1/coin for express inclusion otherwise regular inclusion will occur at a time in the not so near future
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Text
Mr. Willis, with all do respect, I do find your "Have a nice life" response inflamatory. I respect you, your experience, knowledge, and passion for the hobby of numimatics however my respect for you has now been a bit fractured by this comment. You are a proefessional and I truly expected more. This is just my opinion however that response has really tarnished my faith in you and PCGS.
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Text
Mr. Willis, with all do respect, I do find your "Have a nice life" response inflamatory. I respect you, your experience, knowledge, and passion for the hobby of numimatics however my respect for you has now been a bit fractured by this comment. You are a proefessional and I truly expected more. This is just my opinion however that response has really tarnished my faith in you and PCGS. >>
The dude is only human. Based on all the heat he has been taking, I can overlook a comment like that. We all have our breaking point whether we are suppliers, vendors, or customers.
I for one am sending my order in now without waiting to see what the outcome of this discussion is. If it is later decided the $18 per coin for FS did include the cost of returning our mint packaging will I be refunded the new Mint Packaging Return Fee I sent in with my order?
<< <i>Seems like $90/ set ($18x5) for First Strike could cover return shipping costs plus 5 paper inserts with some profit left over. >>
Just sell me the sets for $400 each. You'll have "some profit" left over. >>
I guess if I was filthy rich and divided my time between the golf club and my yacht then I might consider that. Besides, the free market is a fair assigner of price on things. It is not in my power to control.
I have no "skin" in this bantering back and forth about this issue. I understand both sides. Two wrongs do not make a right. Last comment I will post on this issue and I stand firmly by my earlier comment.
Sincere respect and joyous hopes and wishes to all.
Dennis
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>Has anyone figured out how many OGPs you could reasonably fit into a large flat rate priority box, provided you leave some space for padding of some sort? Looks like you should be able to fit five but I haven't been able to check. >>
Blue mint box is too large for any of the USPS flat rate boxes.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, were FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows....
<< <i>It's not about disagreeing with PCGS. We welcome your comments, suggestions and criticisms. >>
Bad timing to change policy in midstream on the ASE set. Additional costs to return such large mint packaging should have been foreseen and built into the recipe from the start. Failure to do so should be recognized by PCGS and not passed on as an additional costs to some of the customers. Would have been better PR to eat the addtional costs. If change in policy is necessary, it should occur at a time where some customers don't feel slighted. Customers who feel slighted are not happy customers.
That said, I'm a happy customer.
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, were FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
PCGS authorized dealers would then have a major advantage over non dealers - a sneak peek at the coins that may suddenly not be sent in.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Has anyone figured out how many OGPs you could reasonably fit into a large flat rate priority box, provided you leave some space for padding of some sort? Looks like you should be able to fit five but I haven't been able to check. >>
Blue mint box is too large for any of the USPS flat rate boxes. >>
Thanks, derry.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Thursday when I spoke with customer service, they told me there was no fee to return OGP, just write the request on the submission form.
Friday I packaged up my submission and had it ready to send registered. Unfortunately due to reasons beyond my control, I did not get to ship Friday as planned. Fortunately I saw the new rule posted on the forum before sending the package Saturday morning, though there was a very good chance I would not have known.
Needless to say, though I understand why a change in fees may be necessary, I am disappointed at the way it was communicated to customers.
As a CLCT shareholder and CC member, I am curious why the policy change was only posted to this forum and not also emailed to CC members.
For future submission related questions, who at PCGS should I ask to speak with? If I instead ask the question via email and print out the response, will the customer service response be honored if included with my shipment? For what period of time are their answers valid?
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, were FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
That would seem reasonable. Just send in the shipping label and the packing slip with the coins.
True story: I took back my hundreds upon hundreds of empty silver 3-pc. boxes from the 2006 20th Anniversary campaign with PCGS (why not ... right). About a year or two later, I hired a garbage company for $70 to haul my modern crap packaging away (that or face the problems with the wife who could not stand looking at it any more),
Wondercoin >>
We throw away our own trash and it is Free to do so.
<< <i>Thursday when I spoke with customer service, they told me there was no fee to return OGP, just write the request on the submission form.
Friday I packaged up my submission and had it ready to send registered. Unfortunately due to reasons beyond my control, I did not get to ship Friday as planned. Fortunately I saw the new rule posted on the forum before sending the package Saturday morning, though there was a very good chance I would not have known.
Needless to say, though I understand why a change in fees may be necessary, I am disappointed at the way it was communicated to customers.
As a CLCT shareholder and CC member, I am curious why the policy change was only posted to this forum and not also emailed to CC members.
For future submission related questions, who at PCGS should I ask to speak with? If I instead ask the question via email and print out the response, will the customer service response be honored if included with my shipment? For what period of time are their answers valid? >>
Agree. As a member, I did not get an email with the new fees either and that should be a no-brainer rather than just posting on this forum. As a shareholder as well, I am not too happy with the way it was done. Customers deserve more notice.
It would be ashamed to throw away these boxes. They are pretty nice. More trash for the landfills do to cost structures in companies that make it more practical to just throw things away.
It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows....
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here.
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise? >>
Come on now. Grading requires training and skill. Any one can check out a box and paperwork.
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise? >>
Come on now. Grading requires training and skill. Any one can check out a box and paperwork. >>
And anyone can say this coin came out of that set. That's why PCGS requires that their employees do it.
Do collectors want anyone certifying that the bullion coin came out of the set before it was mailed to PCGS or do they prefer the peace of mind knowing that when a PCGS label says "Set" the coin was actually part of the set and not a ringer. There is a reason PCGS wants to be the one to unseal the mint box - integrity. It's why you pay more for a PCGS slab that says "Anniversary Set" than you pay for an ANACS slab that says "Anniversary Set." ANACS is accepting all five coins, unsealed, for the set label. You and I know that three of the coins can be swapped out with better looking coins that were released well before the set and in massive numbers. An ASE proof coin labeled PCGS 2011 W Anniversary Set is limited to a max of 100K. An ASE proof coin labeled ANACS 2011 W Anniversary Set is limited to over 1,000,000. The "set" label from PCGS means they certified the coin was part of the set.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
This might be a dumb question but when they say return of mint boxes did they mean the container box or the entire package was sent back to me? First time going through PCGS so I wasn't sure if they are sending me the mint packaging meaning the box with the coins or the box that held the coins. Thanks!
<<This might be a dumb question but when they say return of mint boxes did they mean the container box or the entire package was sent back to me? First time going through PCGS so I wasn't sure if they are sending me the mint packaging meaning the box with the coins or the box that held the coins. Thanks! >>
They'll return ALL original government packaging (OGP), minus the actual coins.
"First Strike", is deceiving, in the fact that all coins struck for the year 2011, (American Silver Eagles) are all 'first strike', in unison with the year. It really does not matter if the first coin, or last coin, (100,000), struck is given a caption of 'first strike', for they are all first strike. There is no way to determine the first boxes off the line, unless someone has prior information regarding this fact, (coin dealers). The tag and numbers would identify the origin , as well as the time. No one is privy to this information, other than the people specified above. This is why, you will only see these so-called 'first strike' in no one's hands , but the dealers, or grading services.. This is a most deceptive aspect coinciding with the label as 'first strike', for in reality, all coins produced in 2011 are first strike. Most people are confused by this label, and the variable conditions that exist within. As a matter of fact, the coin dealers were the first to get the news from the U.S. Mint in stating that the new, 2011 Silver Eagle (uncirculated) would be minted in San Francisco, [without the mint mark]. At that time, the coin dealers had no knowledge of the 25th Anniversary Set, about to materialize. Not knowing this, they sealed these coins (uncirculated) with a 25th anniversary label. In a sense, they were entrapped with their own net. When the 25th anniversary set was announced, we believe that the coin dealers had "egg" on their face. More so, that they marked these coins, (uncirculated) "FIRST STRIKE". Now tell me, if these are considered first strike? In the true sense, yes, but without prior knowledge of the 25th anniversary set. If they had known this, they would purchase such, are truly misled, and have no knowledge.have never marketed these coins as first strike, and more so, 25th anniversary. We truly enjoyed the "smart" people getting a taste of their own medicine.
So, First Strike use to include the cost of returning the OMP. Now it doesn't in this case. So, if you do not request FS designation, you save $450 (5 sets) because it will only cost you $30 to get the OMP back.
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm.
<< <i>So, First Strike use to include the cost of returning the OMP. Now it doesn't in this case. So, if you do not request FS designation, you save $450 (5 sets) because it will only cost you $30 to get the OMP back.
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm. >>
It will be nice when people no longer will pay extra for a label that says first strike.
<< <i>So, First Strike use to include the cost of returning the OMP. Now it doesn't in this case. So, if you do not request FS designation, you save $450 (5 sets) because it will only cost you $30 to get the OMP back.
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm. >>
It will be nice when people no longer will pay extra for a label that says first strike. >>
I think there's bound to be little difference between FS and regular issue on the 68s and 69s initially. The flippers will want to cover their initial investment quickly. If there's a lot more sellers than demand, I wouldn't be surprised to see FSs that aren't 70s trading at little or no premium to sealed sets.
Frankly, I believe when these modern coins become classics, the FS designation will be meaningless. But, until the buyer realize this, I guess I will just collect the extra $$ if the cost doesn't out-weight the profit.
Comments
<< <i>PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Sure...
No disrespect intended, Sir, but I'm just a guy making my way through life, and people are volunteering to pay me more that I paid for the sets that they want. I fully intended to keep the sets I ordered. The supply and demand of the market drives THAT aspect in this instance... and, it's temporary - and rare - to boot.
Did PCGS ask for volunteers to pay additional fees, or an extra cost - significant at that - to send back what they always had before, and without charge?
Please understand that like many others, I, too, appreciate the value and benefit of graded coins... but this is just a little over the top. It may be that the rationale you note is, after all, justified, but...
It would have been far more appropriate to have developed this arbitrary policy in anticipation of the volume which, I can only guess, should have been as eagerly expected, and logistically planned for as it was hotly debated since the sets introduction was announced. If the magnitude of this situation elicited the inevitable cost-vs-benefit analysis (as it must surely have done), then once the process began, well, sir, you ought to have announced this change as of a future date, and taken your lumps. As it stands, some beat the clock, and others have to pay the piper.
Seems a bit unfair to me, that's all.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>
<< <i>To be fair, I don't think anyone anticipated these set presentation boxes to be as heavy as they turned out to be and them being submitted as many as 5 at a time. PCGS can just add a disclaimer line to their policy that the return of OGP is free with the FS designation unless the weight exceeds a certain threshold. Other than that, some comments I think were derived from the "do you live with your parents" thread. >>
To be fair, most sellers on the BST that sold on pre-sale didn't realize how quickly the price would spike. Seller should just add a disclaimer line to their sales agreement that they agree to sell unless the price spikes over a certain threshold. That way, I could have made enough money to move out of my parents house
i'll still be your friend taxmad, what time are we going to storm the castle?
<< <i>i'll still be your friend taxmad, what time are we going to storm the castle?
As soon as I am done tilting at windmills...
<< <i>
<< <i>"First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission."
>>
>>
Isn't this considered false advertising or is this wording being removed from the First Strike option?
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Your replies really show the lack of appreciation PCGS has for it's customers.
Silverman - To be honest, I find Don's responses to be reasonable. To summarize, PCGS wants to charge $30 to mail back the 13 pound carton filled with 5 boxes and other stuff ... right? It appears some argue that the actual cost is really about $10-$15 and PCGS is pocketing the other $15 making this a "profit center" with a 100% markup ... right? Of course, we are not taking into account the labor in preparing the shipment for return to the submittor, the labor in PCGS security transporting the shipments of "modern crap packaging" to the mailing facilities, the labor in PCGS Customer service fielding calls from customers inquiring about there modern crap packaging, etc., etc., etc. All covered under the $15 surplus PCGS has earmarked for itself to cover all the sundry expenses. Not to mention, this is an entirely optional charge where any customer can simply state "toss my modern crap packaging" in the dumpster please and, to be fair, Don is suggesting that as a viable course of action (showing Don is truly not interested in this "profit center" ... right?)
True story: I took back my hundreds upon hundreds of empty silver 3-pc. boxes from the 2006 20th Anniversary campaign with PCGS (why not ... right). About a year or two later, I hired a garbage company for $70 to haul my modern crap packaging away (that or face the problems with the wife who could not stand looking at it any more), but I kept 100 units to consign to a local dealer to sell for me on ebay and about another 50 in my garage to provide to that dealer if he needed them. About two years later, I think I got paid my roughly $1/box net proceeds from 2 years of ebay auctions covering those 100 boxes. I roughly broke even for the $70 I had previously paid for the trashman to haul the lions share away previously (and that dealer has passed on other "interesting" consignments of a like nature since then as well).
Wondercoin
Since people are devoted to shipping back empty boxes are those who have to pay the $20 - $30 per box covering the people hours that are handling the drop off and pick up boxes as well
<< <i>Is it possible to get more employees "devoted" to updating the pop report in real time? That decision may serve your customers well. >>
If you want your grades included in the POP report that will be $1/coin for express inclusion otherwise regular inclusion will occur at a time in the not so near future
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Text
Mr. Willis, with all do respect, I do find your "Have a nice life" response inflamatory. I respect you, your experience, knowledge, and passion for the hobby of numimatics however my respect for you has now been a bit fractured by this comment. You are a proefessional and I truly expected more. This is just my opinion however that response has really tarnished my faith in you and PCGS.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you haven't already sent your 25th Anniversary sets in you will have to pay shipping fees if you want the Mint packaging returned.
We are returning 25th Anniversary sets separately from the coins for two reasons: (1) the set boxes are very large and storing hundreds of these (so far) and keeping track of who they belong to while the coins are graded is staggering; and, (2) 5 empty boxes weighs 13 lbs.
We are returning the sets in shipping boxes of two sizes. The smaller sized box can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets. The larger box up to 5 sets. Return shipping fees are $20 for the smaller box (which can hold up to two 25th Anniversary sets) and $30 for the larger box (which can hold up to 5 25th Anniversary sets). The smaller shipping box will be sent USPS. The larger box Fedex Ground unless to a PO Box.
This is an unique situation that called for an economically viable solution.
Absolutely. Shipping these sets back is far above and beyond any standard mint packaging that we normally return with the coins. Honestly it would be a lot less of a hassle if we simply threw the packaging away. If you want the packaging returned you shouldn't expect PCGS to absorb all the cost. We are not profiting from this. You should all know how much it costs to ship. We now have people devoted to shipping back empty boxes.
To those who say this is heavy handed - I don't know what else we could have done to inform everyone of this decision. For those who say we are changing the rules midway through the game - yes, we didn't do a very good job of anticipating this otherwise we would have charged from the beginning. Anyone who has already sent in their sets for grading and who asked to have the packaging returned will have it returned at no cost.
Right now PCGS charges effectivly the same as you did for shipping when everything was sent registered insured;
This is not true. When we switched to Priority and Express mail all rates were lowered. All packages are fully insured, plus now you can track your package. Baseless comments like this will not be tolerated on this board.
My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Grading... sometimes I wonder if it's an industry that feeds on its own self-importance.
PCGS is a business just like any other. Would you like to discuss your profit motives? >>
Text
Mr. Willis, with all do respect, I do find your "Have a nice life" response inflamatory. I respect you, your experience, knowledge, and passion for the hobby of numimatics however my respect for you has now been a bit fractured by this comment. You are a proefessional and I truly expected more. This is just my opinion however that response has really tarnished my faith in you and PCGS. >>
The dude is only human. Based on all the heat he has been taking, I can overlook a comment like that. We all have our breaking point whether we are suppliers, vendors, or customers.
Have a nice life.
Considering the insulting comment, I think Mr. Willis' response was definitely restrained and rather appropriate.
I for one am sending my order in now without waiting to see what the outcome of this discussion is. If it is later decided the $18 per coin for FS did include the cost of returning our mint packaging will I be refunded the new Mint Packaging Return Fee I sent in with my order?
Thank you
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Seems like $90/ set ($18x5) for First Strike could cover return shipping costs plus 5 paper inserts with some profit left over. >>
Just sell me the sets for $400 each. You'll have "some profit" left over.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>My postman provides as much value as a PCGS opinion
Have a nice life.
Considering the insulting comment, I think Mr. Willis' response was definitely restrained and rather appropriate. >>
Might we presume Clackamas has been BAMMED?
In any event, these boxes seem to be a logistical nightmare, but then, so is the U.S. Mint.
<< <i>
<< <i>Seems like $90/ set ($18x5) for First Strike could cover return shipping costs plus 5 paper inserts with some profit left over. >>
Just sell me the sets for $400 each. You'll have "some profit" left over.
I guess if I was filthy rich and divided my time between the golf club and my yacht then I might consider that. Besides, the free market is a fair assigner of price on things. It is not in my power to control.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Sincere respect and joyous hopes and wishes to all.
Dennis
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>Has anyone figured out how many OGPs you could reasonably fit into a large flat rate priority box, provided you leave some space for padding of some sort? Looks like you should be able to fit five but I haven't been able to check. >>
Blue mint box is too large for any of the USPS flat rate boxes.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows....
<< <i>It's not about disagreeing with PCGS. We welcome your comments, suggestions and criticisms. >>
Bad timing to change policy in midstream on the ASE set. Additional costs to return such large mint packaging should have been foreseen and built into the recipe from the start. Failure to do so should be recognized by PCGS and not passed on as an additional costs to some of the customers. Would have been better PR to eat the addtional costs. If change in policy is necessary, it should occur at a time where some customers don't feel slighted. Customers who feel slighted are not happy customers.
That said, I'm a happy customer.
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, were FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
PCGS authorized dealers would then have a major advantage over non dealers - a sneak peek at the coins that may suddenly not be sent in.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone figured out how many OGPs you could reasonably fit into a large flat rate priority box, provided you leave some space for padding of some sort? Looks like you should be able to fit five but I haven't been able to check. >>
Blue mint box is too large for any of the USPS flat rate boxes. >>
Thanks, derry.
Friday I packaged up my submission and had it ready to send registered. Unfortunately due to reasons beyond my control, I did not get to ship Friday as planned. Fortunately I saw the new rule posted on the forum before sending the package Saturday morning, though there was a very good chance I would not have known.
Needless to say, though I understand why a change in fees may be necessary, I am disappointed at the way it was communicated to customers.
As a CLCT shareholder and CC member, I am curious why the policy change was only posted to this forum and not also emailed to CC members.
For future submission related questions, who at PCGS should I ask to speak with? If I instead ask the question via email and print out the response, will the customer service response be honored if included with my shipment? For what period of time are their answers valid?
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, were FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
That would seem reasonable. Just send in the shipping label and the packing slip with the coins.
<< <i>
Silverman - To be honest
True story: I took back my hundreds upon hundreds of empty silver 3-pc. boxes from the 2006 20th Anniversary campaign with PCGS (why not ... right). About a year or two later, I hired a garbage company for $70 to haul my modern crap packaging away (that or face the problems with the wife who could not stand looking at it any more),
Wondercoin >>
We throw away our own trash and it is Free to do so.
<< <i>Thursday when I spoke with customer service, they told me there was no fee to return OGP, just write the request on the submission form.
Friday I packaged up my submission and had it ready to send registered. Unfortunately due to reasons beyond my control, I did not get to ship Friday as planned. Fortunately I saw the new rule posted on the forum before sending the package Saturday morning, though there was a very good chance I would not have known.
Needless to say, though I understand why a change in fees may be necessary, I am disappointed at the way it was communicated to customers.
As a CLCT shareholder and CC member, I am curious why the policy change was only posted to this forum and not also emailed to CC members.
For future submission related questions, who at PCGS should I ask to speak with? If I instead ask the question via email and print out the response, will the customer service response be honored if included with my shipment? For what period of time are their answers valid? >>
Agree. As a member, I did not get an email with the new fees either and that should be a no-brainer rather than just posting on this forum. As a shareholder as well, I am not too happy with the way it was done. Customers deserve more notice.
<< <i>For sets that aren't returned, are they thrown into the garbage or is there an attempt to recycle them? >>
I'm just going to quote myself since I think this is a legitimate question with the new policy.
Well worth getting back, they will hold a graded set very nice as well...
I don't have slabbed ASE's but here's five PCGS Coins in the box..."-)
If you have not seen them in hand they are very nice, best OGP I have ever seen...
As far as the extra cost... In for a Dime, In for a Dollar my Grandfather always told me...
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows....
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise? >>
Come on now. Grading requires training and skill. Any one can check out a box and paperwork.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It would be nice to have a walk in site(s) at PCGS dealers, where FS rules were applied and boxes opened (and only the coins sent in) preserving FS and Set labeling...
so we could walk away with our boxes - just like at major shows.... >>
It would be even "nicer" for the dealers.
PCGS authorized dealers are not PCGS employees. Giving them authority to certify coins (on behalf of PCGS) as having come from a sealed mint box is not something PCGS should do and not something a collector of PCGS certified coins should be willing to accept. >>
Why not. I don't think cardboard boxes are that secure anyway. We have to get real here. >>
Might as well save some shipping money and let the dealers grade as well. How do I apply for a franchise? >>
Come on now. Grading requires training and skill. Any one can check out a box and paperwork. >>
And anyone can say this coin came out of that set. That's why PCGS requires that their employees do it.
Do collectors want anyone certifying that the bullion coin came out of the set before it was mailed to PCGS or do they prefer the peace of mind knowing that when a PCGS label says "Set" the coin was actually part of the set and not a ringer. There is a reason PCGS wants to be the one to unseal the mint box - integrity. It's why you pay more for a PCGS slab that says "Anniversary Set" than you pay for an ANACS slab that says "Anniversary Set." ANACS is accepting all five coins, unsealed, for the set label. You and I know that three of the coins can be swapped out with better looking coins that were released well before the set and in massive numbers. An ASE proof coin labeled PCGS 2011 W Anniversary Set is limited to a max of 100K. An ASE proof coin labeled ANACS 2011 W Anniversary Set is limited to over 1,000,000. The "set" label from PCGS means they certified the coin was part of the set.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Box of 20
They'll return ALL original government packaging (OGP), minus the actual coins.
And welcome to the Peanut Gallery!
<< <i>Is it possible to get more employees "devoted" to updating the pop report in real time? That decision may serve your customers well. >>
Want a Tip?
Join the PCGS Registry.
Those populations appear to be real time although the 25th Anniversary coins don't appear to be in any set just yet.
The name is LEE!
make
mistakes!
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm.
<< <i>So, First Strike use to include the cost of returning the OMP. Now it doesn't in this case. So, if you do not request FS designation, you save $450 (5 sets) because it will only cost you $30 to get the OMP back.
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>So, First Strike use to include the cost of returning the OMP. Now it doesn't in this case. So, if you do not request FS designation, you save $450 (5 sets) because it will only cost you $30 to get the OMP back.
$450 for 5 FS stikers seems rather steep in this case considering I believe 99% of the submitters will request FS and the FS coins/sets will be the norm. >>
I think there's bound to be little difference between FS and regular issue on the 68s and 69s initially. The flippers will want to cover their initial investment quickly. If there's a lot more sellers than demand, I wouldn't be surprised to see FSs that aren't 70s trading at little or no premium to sealed sets.