Calling on the powers that be regarding Grading guidelines for 25th Anniversary Silver American Eagl
bumanchu
Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭
I hope I am not stepping out of line here, as that is not my intention.
My question is intended to ask when will a determination be forthcoming regarding submission parameters for the recently sold out 25th Anniversay Silver American Eagle sets, as there seems to be a lot of confusion and speculation as to what the rules might be.
Thanks for any help.
My question is intended to ask when will a determination be forthcoming regarding submission parameters for the recently sold out 25th Anniversay Silver American Eagle sets, as there seems to be a lot of confusion and speculation as to what the rules might be.
Thanks for any help.
And I ain't lying this time.
0
Comments
The highlight for me was: First Strike AND 25th Anniversary labels can be combined on reverse proof and 2011-S pieces certified.
Second highlight was that you don't have to get them all graded. You can have the two keys graded and the others returned to you raw with the OGP.
<< <i>The parameters have been established. You can call PCGS Customer Service for full details.
The highlight for me was: First Strike AND 25th Anniversary labels can be combined on reverse proof and 2011-S pieces certified.
Second highlight was that you don't have to get them all graded. You can have the two keys graded and the others returned to you raw with the OGP. >>
Then why wouldn't you just open the sets and only ship the "S" and Reverse Proof to PCGS?
<< <i>The parameters have been established. You can call PCGS Customer Service for full details.
The highlight for me was: First Strike AND 25th Anniversary labels can be combined on reverse proof and 2011-S pieces certified.
Second highlight was that you don't have to get them all graded. You can have the two keys graded and the others returned to you raw with the OGP. >>
No disrespect intended, but I would like to see that posted, which would also avert a lot of phone calls to PCGS.
Secondly, what if you wanted one set out of a box of five graded so as to have the pedigree of 25th Anniversary on all five coins in one set, but only the keys on the other four sets?
How do you go about getting that done or could you?
Also on Oct. 25, on an online dealer trading network, Professional Coin Grading Service offered dealers who submitted anniversary sets in Mint-sealed boxes to PCGS for grading a signed letter by John Mercanti, former chief engraver at the Mint and designer of the coin’s reverse. These letters could be included in retailers’ offerings of the sets to enhance the set value.
Coin World
PS This article says bullion to be minted at SF
<< <i>Then why wouldn't you just open the sets and only ship the "S" and Reverse Proof to PCGS? >>
If it was in the 30 day First Strike window, I would.
I would also cherry pick after the 30 day window closed if I wasn't getting the First Strike designation.
<< <i>The parameters have been established...you don't have to get them all graded. You can have the two keys graded and the others returned to you raw with the OGP. >>
If that's true, that would be great news!
<< <i>The parameters have been established. You can call PCGS Customer Service for full details.
The highlight for me was: First Strike AND 25th Anniversary labels can be combined on reverse proof and 2011-S pieces certified.
Second highlight was that you don't have to get them all graded. You can have the two keys graded and the others returned to you raw with the OGP. >>
That makes absolutely no sense and is completely different from what PCGS did for the Gold and Silver Eagle 20th Anniversary sets in 2006 and the Platinum Eagle 10th anniversary set in 2007. In both those cases, all the coins from the sets (including the ones released earlier in the year) were eligible for the 'First Strike Anniversary Set' pedigree if they were shipped within 30 days of release from the Mint and they remained sealed. Once the set is opened, only the coins unique to the set were eligible to receive the First Strike or 'Anniversary Set' label. CS routinely states the wrong information, I would wait until the official PCGS announcement, which in the past has been posted once the sets start shipping and they can determine when the First Strike cutoff date will be.
<< <i>I just called PCGS CS and they said ONLY FS on the S and RP. >>
Even if that were the case, which I doubt it is given that's not how the Eagle anniversary sets have been handled in the past, you would still need to send the sealed set in order to have the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on the the other three coins.
However the site, under the (particular to bulk only -which is 100 coins- or 20 sets of 5) "services tab," then the "special inserts" tab indicates the following:
"Currently, the only special insert available to Collectors Club members is the First Strike label and cannot be submitted through Bulk. These changes were made in order to speed up and streamline processing and turnaround times at PCGS."
The rep indicated to me that CollectorsClub members have been previously able to submit bulk orders & obtain "First Strike" labels with no changes to date.
If that is true, PCGS may wish to clarify this on the site.
Hopefully, you all have 20 sets coming your way in order to save the additional $2 per coin fee.
<< <i>I'm sitting here looking at both the silver and gold sets from 2006. BOTH are ALL FS AND 20th anniversary annotated. These sets should be the exact same. PCGS will clarify soon. >>
And how many of those first stike coins say 20th Anniversary SET? There's a difference between a label that says 20th Anniversary and one that says 20th Anniversary Set.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>So...do they still have to be in the sealed mint packaging?? Now I'm confused >>
No guidelines yet. By the time the Mint ships, you'll have a good idea. Stay Tuned !!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just called PCGS CS and they said ONLY FS on the S and RP. >>
Even if that were the case, which I doubt it is given that's not how the Eagle anniversary sets have been handled in the past, you would still need to send the sealed set in order to have the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on the the other three coins. >>
Right, and since the other three coins are already "out there" wouldn't one WANT to have these graded because they might be more valuable with the 25th Anniversary Set label as opposed to not having that? Only 100,000 of the three non-key coins will ever be able to have such a designation. I am betting they will be worth more than the non-25th Anny ones, graded or not.
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<< <i>I just called PCGS CS and they said ONLY FS on the S and RP. >>
Even if that were the case, which I doubt it is given that's not how the Eagle anniversary sets have been handled in the past, you would still need to send the sealed set in order to have the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on the the other three coins. >>
Right, and since the other three coins are already "out there" wouldn't one WANT to have these graded because they might be more valuable with the 25th Anniversary Set label as opposed to not having that? Only 100,000 of the three non-key coins will ever be able to have such a designation. I am betting they will be worth more than the non-25th Anny ones, graded or not. >>
That's the way I see it. I also expect the 2011 business strike bullion coin to be the sleeper of the 25th Anniversary set for two reasons:
1. Anyone that wants a complete graded 25th anniversary set will need that coin and the only way to get it will be to send the sealed set in to be graded. Many sets will be opened and thus no longer eligible for the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on all 5 coins, limiting the number of '25th Anniversary Set' graded sets. The Reverse Proof and 'S' UNC coin will always qualify for the '25th anniversary set' pedigree by default since they are unique to the set.
2. The bullion business strike coin should definitely be the hardest coin to get back in a 70, so there will be a high demand for that coin as the condition rarity of the graded 25th Anniversary sets.
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<< <i>I just called PCGS CS and they said ONLY FS on the S and RP. >>
Even if that were the case, which I doubt it is given that's not how the Eagle anniversary sets have been handled in the past, you would still need to send the sealed set in order to have the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on the the other three coins. >>
Right, and since the other three coins are already "out there" wouldn't one WANT to have these graded because they might be more valuable with the 25th Anniversary Set label as opposed to not having that? Only 100,000 of the three non-key coins will ever be able to have such a designation. I am betting they will be worth more than the non-25th Anny ones, graded or not. >>
That's the way I see it. I also expect the 2011 business strike bullion coin to be the sleeper of the 25th Anniversary set for two reasons:
1. Anyone that wants a complete graded 25th anniversary set will need that coin and the only way to get it will be to send the sealed set in to be graded. Many sets will be opened and thus no longer eligible for the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree on all 5 coins, limiting the number of '25th Anniversary Set' graded sets. The Reverse Proof and 'S' UNC coin will always qualify for the '25th anniversary set' pedigree by default since they are unique to the set.
2. The bullion business strike coin should definitely be the hardest coin to get back in a 70, so there will be a high demand for that coin as the condition rarity of the graded 25th Anniversary sets. >>
Yes that is spot on. Funny how things go full circle when people think it out. I have no illusions that our host will be handing out bullion Ms-70s all that much however except for the privledged few.
Isn't a MS 70 First Strike with "anniversary" pedigree equivalent to a MS 71 or MS 72?
bumanchu
<< <i>Yes that is spot on. Funny how things go full circle when people think it out. I have no illusions that our host will be handing out bullion Ms-70s all that much however except for the privledged few. >>
I guess that depends on how the mint put the set together. If the bullion business strike coins were just taken from the available inventory of the coins that are put in rolls, rather than being specially struck for the anniversary set (fresh dies, special handling, etc.), then it will likely be very tough to get many 70's, considering the sets must remained sealed for all the coins to be eligible for the '25th Anniversary Set' pedigree.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>It's at least two weeks before ANYBODY gets their sets. Why all the gnashing of teeth over what the rules of the game may be at this point? I have full confidence that complete submission guidance will be posted in plenty of time to ensure you know exactly how to get whatever premium, superlative, and/or expletive label variations are made available to you. >>
I think we can at least reasonably establish that the same guidelines regarding First Strike, anniversary designation, etc that were put in place for the gold and silver eagle 20th anniversary sets and platinum eagle10th anniversary sets should continue for the silver eagle 25th anniversary sets. Once the sets begin shipping and PCGS can determine what the First Strike cutoff will be, they will post the submission guidelines as they have done in the past.
Thank you for contacting PCGS customer service.
Only two coins in the 25th Anniversary set are eligible for First Strike. Those coins are the Rev Proof and the 2011-S.
If you send the set in the original packaging unopened then all coins will receive the 25th Anniversary set and the two coins that are eligible will get the first Strike fee ($18 per coin). Please let me know if I can further assist you.
Thank you,
PCGS Customer Service Rep
Collectors Universe, Inc
800-447-8848
<< <i>I've contacted PCGS Customer Service several times and I always get the same answer:
Thank you for contacting PCGS customer service.
Only two coins in the 25th Anniversary set are eligible for First Strike. Those coins are the Rev Proof and the 2011-S.
If you send the set in the original packaging unopened then all coins will receive the 25th Anniversary set and the two coins that are eligible will get the first Strike fee ($18 per coin). Please let me know if I can further assist you.
Thank you,
PCGS Customer Service Rep
Collectors Universe, Inc
800-447-8848 >>
Sounds like they would leave alot of money on the table if they did that and that doesn't sound like them at all.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've contacted PCGS Customer Service several times and I always get the same answer:
Thank you for contacting PCGS customer service.
Only two coins in the 25th Anniversary set are eligible for First Strike. Those coins are the Rev Proof and the 2011-S.
If you send the set in the original packaging unopened then all coins will receive the 25th Anniversary set and the two coins that are eligible will get the first Strike fee ($18 per coin). Please let me know if I can further assist you.
Thank you,
PCGS Customer Service Rep
Collectors Universe, Inc
800-447-8848 >>
Sounds like they would leave alot of money on the table if they did that and that doesn't sound like them at all. >>
PCGS has been known to make an about face from their initial guidelines...The pucks & UHR are the most recent ones.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's at least two weeks before ANYBODY gets their sets. Why all the gnashing of teeth over what the rules of the game may be at this point? I have full confidence that complete submission guidance will be posted in plenty of time to ensure you know exactly how to get whatever premium, superlative, and/or expletive label variations are made available to you. >>
I think we can at least reasonably establish that the same guidelines regarding First Strike, anniversary designation, etc that were put in place for the gold and silver eagle 20th anniversary sets and platinum eagle10th anniversary sets should continue for the silver eagle 25th anniversary sets. Once the sets begin shipping and PCGS can determine what the First Strike cutoff will be, they will post the submission guidelines as they have done in the past. >>
I agree.
for the Record:
The 2006 20th Anniversary Sets consisting of the 2006-P Reverse Proof SAE, 2006-W Burnished Unc SAE, and 2006-W Proof SAE all qualified for First Strike™ slabs even though the 2006-W Proof was released in February of 2006.
Even NGC is offering "Early release" for all the sets submitted within the 30 day window.
The name is LEE!
509185 2011 $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set MS
509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniv. Set - First Strike MS
509191 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set PRDC
509195 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR PR
509192 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set PR
The following items are still missing:
2011-W 25th anniversary set MS
2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set - First Strike PR
Anyone asked the PCGS rep for the code?
<< <i>So far, these are the only code I can find from their website for the 25th anniv set.
509185 2011 $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set MS
509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniv. Set - First Strike MS
509191 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set PRDC
509195 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR PR
509192 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set PR
The following items are still missing:
2011-W 25th anniversary set MS
2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set - First Strike PR
Anyone asked the PCGS rep for the code? >>
Goldlover, also missing is 2011-S 25th Anniversary (non First Strike) MS
<< <i>
<< <i>So far, these are the only code I can find from their website for the 25th anniv set.
509185 2011 $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set MS
509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniv. Set - First Strike MS
509191 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set PRDC
509195 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR PR
509192 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set PR
The following items are still missing:
2011-W 25th anniversary set MS
2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set - First Strike PR
Anyone asked the PCGS rep for the code? >>
Goldlover, also missing is 2011-S 25th Anniversary (non First Strike) MS >>
Nice catch.
To summarize:
<< Really, why would any of the normal proofs in the anniversary sets be considered First Strike (they've been available for quite some time now)? >>
These First Strikes will have a "20th Anniversary Set" designation.
which, IMO, is all thats really needed. Its the TPG's "word" that the coins are a part of the 25th Anniversary set which is the entire premise behind the First Strike label in the first place. (specifically, the coin was submitted for grading within the 30 day window).
To me, this is a no brainer as its the "SET" thats receiving the First Strike label, not the individual coins. Any questions regarding the designation could be referred to the appropriate "guidance" thread should PCGS decide to publish one.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>As for only allowing First Strike for the two coins in this set, that question was asked in this thread on the Announcements Board and answered by Ron Guth (who was at the time the President of PCGS) with regard to why the 2006-W Proof was First Strike eligible since it had been released in February of 2006.
To summarize:
<< Really, why would any of the normal proofs in the anniversary sets be considered First Strike (they've been available for quite some time now)? >>
These First Strikes will have a "20th Anniversary Set" designation.
which, IMO, is all thats really needed. Its the TPG's "word" that the coins are a part of the 25th Anniversary set which is the entire premise behind the First Strike label in the first place. (specifically, the coin was submitted for grading within the 30 day window).
To me, this is a no brainer as its the "SET" thats receiving the First Strike label, not the individual coins. Any questions regarding the designation could be referred to the appropriate "guidance" thread should PCGS decide to publish one. >>
I believe the marketplace has placed a premium on First Strike because it means the coin has never been previously slabbed, so you know a coin with a First Strike designation has not been regraded with a higher grade. Of course, this assumes that a regrade cannot inherit its First Strike designation (anyone know this for sure?).
<< <i>I agree.
for the Record:
The 2006 20th Anniversary Sets consisting of the 2006-P Reverse Proof SAE, 2006-W Burnished Unc SAE, and 2006-W Proof SAE all qualified for First Strike™ slabs even though the 2006-W Proof was released in February of 2006.
Even NGC is offering "Early release" for all the sets submitted within the 30 day window. >>
PCGS also offered 'First Strike 10th Anniversary Set' inserts for the platinum eagle 10th anniversary set, which included a 2007-W $50 Reverse Proof and a $50 Proof APE. The 2007-W $50 Proof APE was originally released individually and in the four-coin Proof set, in May of 2007. When the platinum eagle 10th anniversary started shipping in December of 2007, the $50 APE Proof DCAM also qualified for the 'First Strike 10th Anniversary Set' insert for the sets that were shipped within 30 days of the platinum eagle 10th anniversary set release date and were sent in sealed. All PCGS has to do is designate the coins from the silver eagle 25th anniversary set with a 'First Strike 25th Anniversary Set' insert to differentiate the 25th anniversary set silver eagles that were part of a sealed set from those released earlier in the year, just like they did for the previous anniversary sets.
One reason I would see PCGS not doing so would be the milk spot issue on the burnished silver eagles. When the silver eagle 20th anniversary set was released in 2006, PCGS would not grade the 'W' UNC silver eagle coin from the set MS70 due to the milk spot problem with silver eagles. Many months after the set was released, PCGS did a 180 and would grade the burnished 'W' coins MS70 if they were resubmitted and qualified for the grade. Since PCGS now allows for MS70 on all silver eagles, that should no longer be a problem.
<< <i>I believe the marketplace has placed a premium on First Strike because it means the coin has never been previously slabbed, so you know a coin with a First Strike designation has not been regraded with a higher grade. Of course, this assumes that a regrade cannot inherit its First Strike designation (anyone know this for sure?). >>
Regrades do in fact inherit the First Strike label.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe the marketplace has placed a premium on First Strike because it means the coin has never been previously slabbed, so you know a coin with a First Strike designation has not been regraded with a higher grade. Of course, this assumes that a regrade cannot inherit its First Strike designation (anyone know this for sure?). >>
Regrades do in fact inherit the First Strike label.
What is the present grade on that coin?
<< <i>So far, these are the only code I can find from their website for the 25th anniv set.
509185 2011 $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set MS
509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniv. Set - First Strike MS
509191 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set PRDC
509195 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR PR
509192 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set PR
The following items are still missing:
2011-W 25th anniversary set MS
2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR 25th Anniversary Set - First Strike PR
Anyone asked the PCGS rep for the code? >>
Interesting.
Folks are aware that the bullion versions of the SAE were produced at the San Francisco mint especially for the sets?
See the October 27th Coin World where it states: "US Mint officials decided that all bullion coin production for the set would be conducted at the San Francisco facility." As such, shouldn't they have a label such as:
2011 $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set - Struck at San Francisco OR perhaps 2011(S) $1 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary Set ?
Additionally, the article states that ALL the coins produced specifically for the were produced in late August and September of this year. This means that the sets will contain nothing but coins produced for the set. In other words, all mint fresh coins and NOT coins returned for replacements because of some flaw.
The name is LEE!
"You’ll be pleased to be the first one to know that as of this morning PCGS will be designating all 5 coins as First Strike."
Woo Hoo.
Thank You PCGS.
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>
<< <i>I believe the marketplace has placed a premium on First Strike because it means the coin has never been previously slabbed, so you know a coin with a First Strike designation has not been regraded with a higher grade. Of course, this assumes that a regrade cannot inherit its First Strike designation (anyone know this for sure?). >>
Regrades do in fact inherit the First Strike label.
What is the present grade on that coin? >>
Downgraded to 66.
I'll guess "spots"
<< <i>Why does it cost more than the grading fee just to print "First Strike" on the label? I can't understand why it costs $18 per coin if that's all there is to it. >>
Makes big $$$ for PCGS
Grade a set of 5 will be about $100
FS adds $90, for a few extra fonts
Will we make up our $90 of FS fees on these coins? I'm concerned that if, out of my five sets, I get a 70 of each coin, will it be more valuable to the eBay market WITH or WITHOUT the FS label?
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<< <i>I believe the marketplace has placed a premium on First Strike because it means the coin has never been previously slabbed, so you know a coin with a First Strike designation has not been regraded with a higher grade. Of course, this assumes that a regrade cannot inherit its First Strike designation (anyone know this for sure?). >>
Regrades do in fact inherit the First Strike label.
What is the present grade on that coin? >>
Downgraded to 66.
I'll guess "spots" >>
That would be a correct guess.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Why does it cost more than the grading fee just to print "First Strike" on the label? I can't understand why it costs $18 per coin if that's all there is to it. >>
Makes big $$$ for PCGS
Grade a set of 5 will be about $100
FS adds $90, for a few extra fonts >>
I have no idea other than perhaps there is either some equipment set up that is required or maybe the labels cost more to produce or maybe both. It does take special handling and validation to determine if an order even qualifies for the label.
The simplicities which most folks use to address the cost factors does not take into consideration the fact that PCGS handles hundreds of thousand of coins each month with each submission being unique to the submitter. This translates into labor dollars which must be accounted for through submission prices.
Bottom line: If you don't want to pay for First Strike then don't ask for it.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Why does it cost more than the grading fee just to print "First Strike" on the label? >>
w/o questioning any costs involved, but shouldn't every label have this, or none of them, without asking/paying?
there shouldn't be any differences, since they were sold out in 1 day.
First Submited?
<< <i>
<< <i>Why does it cost more than the grading fee just to print "First Strike" on the label? >>
w/o questioning any costs involved, but shouldn't every label have this, or none of them, without asking/paying?
there shouldn't be any differences, since they were sold out in 1 day.
First Submited? >>
Because it much more than simply printing "First Strike" on the label. Its a completely different label.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why does it cost more than the grading fee just to print "First Strike" on the label? >>
w/o questioning any costs involved, but shouldn't every label have this, or none of them, without asking/paying?
there shouldn't be any differences, since they were sold out in 1 day.
First Submited? >>
Because it much more than simply printing "First Strike" on the label. Its a completely different label. >>
But a label goes in there anyways
It would be nice if they just used that label for 30 days and after that they stop using it. kinda like Disney and DVD's, They the pop's could no longer change, submission would go up, and then the label would mean something
Surprising a MS70 label doesn't cost more than an MS69 label.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>There should be no upcharge for any label that the coin qualifies for, as long as it doesn't require additional verification such as variety. The submitted coin speaks for itself. They aren't charging extra for the Anniversary Set label.
Surprising a MS70 label doesn't cost more than an MS69 label. >>
I try to stay out of the "First Strike" labeling discussions, but I fully agree with the above...if there is no verification need, then the label should be part of the cost already attributed.
It does get a little on the edge if the item is a sealed box, after the 30 days, but that "verification" is so minimal that it is hard, from just a pure cost point, to justify charging more than the normal handling fee already being done, imho.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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