Is the 59 wheatback for real....??

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OldEastside
OldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I got nutin but wanted to post so.....
what the story with the 59 wheatback?

Steve
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  • Coinosaurus
    Coinosaurus Posts: 9,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    IIRC, there is not a consensus. I think the Secret Service declined to call it a fake, while conversely the services wouldn't authenticate it.

    Last time sold for 25K or something like that??
    Newman Numismatic Portal, www.NewmanPortal.org
  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting LINK

    I believe the counterfeiter is still serving time in a Utah state prison (on unrelated crimes).
  • amiller
    amiller Posts: 893
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    Treasury and Secret Service say it is genuine and returned it to the owner twice (would have been confiscated if spurious). There was a full report detailing the tests and observations that led to their conclusion.

    Before the TPG days, it was sent to the ANA for an opinion and they would not state it was genuine, their only reasoning being that the Mint had not admitted to making any.
  • segoja
    segoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
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    FAKE ALL THE WAY
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    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • JamesMurray
    JamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭
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    << <i>FAKE ALL THE WAY >>



    Be honest now , would your opinion change if you found one in change ?
  • STONE
    STONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
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    << <i>

    << <i>FAKE ALL THE WAY >>


    Be honest now , would your opinion change if you found one in change ? >>


    No, because it would be more than likely one of DCarr's counterfeits!!!
  • segoja
    segoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
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    When I find one, I'll let you know
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    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • JamesMurray
    JamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭
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    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>FAKE ALL THE WAY >>


    Be honest now , would your opinion change if you found one in change ? >>


    No, because it would be more than likely one of DCarr's counterfeits!!! >>



    image



    Weird thing is when roll searching if i see a 59 i always check the reverse (even hopefully)
  • GrumpyEd
    GrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
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    I think it's a fake made by that forger.

    The Secret Service isn't always correct, they did call the 69-S DDOs fake when they saw them.

    Ed
  • morgansforever
    morgansforever Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Numismatic Forgery

    Page 11, talks about the 59 Wheatback mule made by Hofmann.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • keets
    keets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    FAKE ALL THE WAY

    what about the 1958 DDO, isn't that unique?? is that one also "fake" all the way or does it get a pass for some reason??
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have seen two, and do not believe that either was genuiine, but am not in a position to state with authority that either was fake.
    TD
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • richbeat
    richbeat Posts: 2,288 ✭
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    General consensus: very deceptive fake, though not proven 100% either way. image
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I find it surprising that we seem to have only opinions on these and no facts. If Treasury et al examined it and returned it as original, that seems to be the only authoritative input. I guess I should read more about it ..... Cheers, RickO
  • leothelyon
    leothelyon Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I imagine a wheat-back 1959 could have been made similar to the unique 1942-smallS nickel.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>FAKE ALL THE WAY

    what about the 1958 DDO, isn't that unique?? is that one also "fake" all the way or does it get a pass for some reason?? >>



    If I am reading this correctly there is a big difference between a doubled die obverse which involves the improper preparation of a working die from the hub and a totally different reverse die that allegedly was used to strike a retro design on a coin. Having seen photos of a piece that was said to be this anomaly, my impression from those pictures was that the item was not genuine.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • STONE
    STONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
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    There are also at least 2 known 1958 DDO's!!!
  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I've examined the 59-D Cent
    three times, raw.

    I am certain it is a counterfeit.

    One of the problems with the story
    that the "Treasury" authenticated it
    is that the person who wrote a letter
    saying they thought it was real was
    in the CURRENCY Dept. of the Treasury.

    I've seen a copy of the letter - and was
    not impressed that the currency specialist
    said it was "ok". That means nothing.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>I have seen two, and do not believe that either was genuiine, but am not in a position to state with authority that either was fake.
    TD >>



    I wish to correct this statement. Yesterday I did some research in the ANA Museum of the old ANACS logbooks from the Washington, D.C. era (1972-1976), and the coin that I saw in the mid-1970's while still at Coin World was a 1959 Philadelphia coin with an altered date. Saw a file closeup photograph of the date.

    Edited to clarify: I have seen one 1959 Philadelphia wheat cent that has an altered 9, and one 1959-D wheat cent that I believe is a die-struck counterfeit, but I cannot prove it.

    TD
    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    .
    i imagine the person(s) that bought it from auction thought there was some legitimacy to it. what did it bring $15-20k? been a while since i read on this one and the cobwebs are dustier than usual on the details.
    .

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  • WoodenJefferson
    WoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
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    Back in the day, if you were willing to take the chance, you could make some short term dies from an 'explosive impact' from a 10 gauge shot gun. Genuine cent blanks were readily available, I myself have pulled some from change myself. Make your own mules!
    Chat Board Lingo

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  • rec78
    rec78 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Real or fake it will still carry a big price until proof is ascertained either way. While I have not seen the coin in person, I have always thought it to be a fake. Even if fake, it is still unique and had some value to quite a few collectors. This is one of those cases where a totally worthless coin is not totally worthless. Someone will always desire it-and more than one someone, thus giving it value. How much value? That will be determined by how much someone wants it just for its unique place in numismatic history.

    Bob
    image

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