It is my coin and i priced it at 1200 bucks, while i may be a moroon i do not like taking lowball offers. lol I have the coin in hand and i should make every effort to give a description explaining why i value this coin at more than double price guides. You are basing your offer off of pics which cAN BE hard to do.
It is hard to come across in a email sometimes. I personally do not like the approach that some guys send in an email. They act all knowing and start spouting off greysheet prices etc. More times than not they skew the numbers in their favor. Those are the ones that irk me. They should get the price guides correct. I have had offers where flaw after flaw was mentioned, going on and on about problems. I just chuckle to myself and wonder why the person would even want the coin.lol
Personally when i come across a coin that is priced double the guides i keep moving. I can see a 10 percent, 15 percent and up to a 30 percent off offer but more than that means one of the 2 does not understand business.
Coins are a luxury that you do not need to survive, so you can price them at what ever you want and hope someone with more money than brains comes by looking with the wallet out.
My last part of my rant is dealers making offers on ebay coins that tell you coin is worth x wholesale and y retail. I probably agree with you but i am looking for the retail customer myself, why should i discount it to a total stranger so he can flip it?
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>This is something that I have always had a problem with. I see a coin, I love the coin, then I see the price and just have to walk away because I don't feel comfortable offering what I think the coin is worth and risk upsetting or offending said dealer with a "low ball" offer.
Here's an example.
I found a gorgeous coin. I love this coin on this dealer's website. Then I see the price of nearly $1,200.00 and figure well let's check out HA and a few other places to see what that coin has been bringing. HA shows same grade same year going for $333, $520, $500.
PCGS price guide says $500.
Yet I don't feel comfortable offering that amount when the dealer obviously values it at so much more. The coin DOES have exceptional eye appeal I will not deny that. Lovely toning, but an extra $700 for it?
How would you handle this situation if you were the buyer looking in? Make the offer?
How about if you were the dealer getting such a low offer on a coin you've priced so high? >>
Heritage is often a mindfield for minus coins within a grade. Your $333, $520 and $500 price examples might actually be worst buys that the $1200 coin with exceptional eye appeal (in your own words). Matter of fact you didn't mention any redeeming attributes on the less expensive coins other then price so I find that noteworthy. Regardless, it's hard to make any judgements without seeing the coin. A lot of times prices are determined on what the dealer could replace the coin for. Maybe, just maybe this $1200 coin is truly at the top of the heap for said grade or series date/mintmark specific and will have no problems placing in with a customer who maybe be building an exceptional eye appealing set regardless of grade on the slab.
I've had posters here inquire about coins I've posted in the past picture threads. Inquirer asks," how much for the coin". I say it's not for sale. Inquirer- "what would it take to buy it". Not to be rude I say this is what I paid and this is what I believe is the replacement cost BUT I'm still not sure I'm willing to sell. Inquirer- "your price is too high and I feel it's only worth half that much, ok?". I put them on PM block and move on........MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I have my eye on Ebay too but I'm willing to pay full price; that was never an issue. I'd be happy paying the average going rate of $500 on Heritage. I just can't see how somebody can get so far away from the market average. >>
I'm sorry, but this has to be said. Occasionally, a dealer who "specializes" in a particular series thinks he is so numismatically superior to anyone else who deals or collects in that series, that just because he possesses a coin in his inventory that makes the coin "special" somehow and it then becomes worth a MINIMUM of 50% above what the current market says that coin is worth. Essentially, he thinks that anyone should feel honored to own a coin that was sold by him. As if somehow because he is the one who sold the coin that means it carries some special provenance. There is one dealer, who will remain nameless because he is a forum member, I absolutely REFUSE to do business with because he has this exact attitude and pricing structure. I know this because I've engaged him in conversation at a couple of large coin shows and it's quite obvious from hearing him speak. The last thing I will say on this matter is that it's not any of the dealers here who specialize in Barber material. >>
There is more than one dealer here like that--------------------BigE
Fwiw, most of the $500 coins being offered for $1200 are just that....$500 coins. So when you do make a counteroffer somewhere within that range, be sure that you know what you're doing. Sure, there are exceptions. But they are just that, exceptions.
If you're relying on the dealer's experience, expertise, and notoriety that could be a costly mistake. Getting $700-$1200 for $500 coins is what helps "move" the coin market. If one's typical buying patterns entail paying $1200 for coins that typically seem to sell for $500, then that person needs to be very good at what they're doing and have consistantly verified those skills by attempting to resell coins or entertained real offers along the way.
I never mind getting an offer. The worst thing I can do is turn it down. Of course there's probably a reason the dealer has it marked up so high, but it's probably worth finding out why. If the reason isn't sufficient, it's probably time to find the coin somewhere else...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
<< <i>This is something that I have always had a problem with. I see a coin, I love the coin, then I see the price and just have to walk away because I don't feel comfortable offering what I think the coin is worth and risk upsetting or offending said dealer with a "low ball" offer.
Here's an example.
I found a gorgeous coin. I love this coin on this dealer's website. Then I see the price of nearly $1,200.00 and figure well let's check out HA and a few other places to see what that coin has been bringing. HA shows same grade same year going for $333, $520, $500.
PCGS price guide says $500.
Yet I don't feel comfortable offering that amount when the dealer obviously values it at so much more. The coin DOES have exceptional eye appeal I will not deny that. Lovely toning, but an extra $700 for it?
How would you handle this situation if you were the buyer looking in? Make the offer?
How about if you were the dealer getting such a low offer on a coin you've priced so high? >>
Try asking the dealer what his/her absolute lowest price they would be willing to accept and go from there.
One need only to do some research on auction archives to dispel the notion that all coins graded, let's say, ms 65 by PCGS bring the same hammer price. Or that they all represent the same value. Many times the archives show a difference of thousands of dollars between the lowest successful bid and the highest. I can't count the number of times after viewing a coin before the auction that I bid 50% to 100% above greysheet ask only to be outbid. (Never buy a coin from a picture or description unless the dealer offers a return policy). I have bought and sold super lustrous and vividly toned commems for instance for many multiples of published prices with all parties extremely happy. Dave W.
Prove your point to the dealer. If he sees the facts, he just might appreciate being reproved. Now this could have a positive effect by either opening a door instead of burning a bridge, or lead to 'filling a hole', rather than creating a bigger gap. Because of a willingness to communicate and compromise, deals are made daily and that's why the market has a heartbeat. Just a thought
Your question is a good one and the answer depends on a number of factors.
1) The dealer - I was looking at a nice coin @ a show. Dealer wanted $11,500, and the coin was worth somewhere between $9,500 and $10,500. I POLITELY asked him whether he would consider a slightly lower offer price, and the guy went at me verbally as if I propositioned his grandmother. I refused to do business with him after that.
Try and find out as much as you can about a particular dealer. Some like to buy many coins and move them with relatively small markups. Others consistently price their coins on the high side, feel that if the coin is theirs, it's worth another 1/2 point on the grading scale, and have estate plans to put it in their coffin when they die if they can't make their (fill in the blank) markup on said coin.
I always ask for a dealer's best price, and then pass or play. Unless you're in TDN or Tahoe Dale's league, if this particular coin is priced too high, pass. Be patient, a similar coin will come along soon enough. I don't care how much money you have to spend, just remember, you have no obligation to spend anything at a particular point in time.
2) The coin - Recent auction house archives are useful tools to price compare, but they are only guides. If the coin is a widget, like an 1883 CC Morgan in PC 5 - these archives are very helpful. However, you have to consider the rarity of the particular coin, as well as aspects of said coin. Ie., an attractively toned Morgan will bring far more at a given grade than a white one. Likewise, a problem-free Draped Bust coin, especially in higher grades, will command a premium over, say an AU Bust $ which was slabbed, but has 'issues.'
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
A price of $1,200 versus an auction result high of $520?
Unless something drastic has happened to the market this sounds like a non-starter to me. The only other exception would be if the coin has a gold CAC sticker. I once paid, probably too much, for a very scarce Bechler dollar that was massively under graded in the holder.
The trouble with negociating on something based only a picture is that you don't really know what it looks like. All you are doing to going by a picture, and I can tell you from hard experiece that that can be dangerous to your economic welfare.
If it were possible I'd get out to some regional and national shows and see what you can find. To be honest a $500 or $1,200 U.S. coin is not that scarce in most cases. If it's a token or medal, that could be a different story. Lots of guys swear by the Internet, but to me there nothing like seeing the item in person.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>One need only to do some research on auction archives to dispel the notion that all coins graded, let's say, ms 65 by PCGS bring the same hammer price. Or that they all represent the same value. Many times the archives show a difference of thousands of dollars between the lowest successful bid and the highest. I can't count the number of times after viewing a coin before the auction that I bid 50% to 100% above greysheet ask only to be outbid. (Never buy a coin from a picture or description unless the dealer offers a return policy). I have bought and sold super lustrous and vividly toned commems for instance for many multiples of published prices with all parties extremely happy. Dave W.
David J Weygant Rare Coins. www.djwcoin.com >>
Now. now, David......let's not confuse the issue with facts!
The truth is, that my best returns were on coins that I "paid too much" for over the years. Some are seldom seen in that calibre anymore. My only regret is that I did not "pay too much" for many opportunities that presented themslves 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Sometimes, the "greysheet mentality" can be our own worst enemy. The bottom line is that a dealer does not have an obligation to sell a coin at what he perceives is a lowball price for the quality, anymore than a buyer has an obligation to purchase a coin at what he perceives is an inflated price. At that point it is "no harm, no foul," and time to move on.
Larry L.
Autism Awareness: There is no limit to the good you can do, if you don't care who gets the credit.
<< <i>Sometimes, the "greysheet mentality" can be our own worst enemy. >>
There is a difference between "the greysheet mentality" and paying totally stupid prices. The bid prices for many things do have a basis in fact, and while they might no reflect the exact price one should pay, when you start talking about three or four times "bid" one might re-check your parameters.
I remember back in 1980 when some people thought they got a bargain when they bought something for only three or four times bid. Those people lost their shirts when reality set in.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I'm not a dealer. I think you need to buy the coin and not the slab. Not all coins are created equal. Right now I am looking at 4 similar coins on ebay. All same date/mint, PC 6, all offered as BIN. PCGS value is $140. Prices range from $110-$295. There is clearly a difference between the coins, which I beleive is reflected in the BIN asks. The same dealer has two coins at $195 and $295 (latter is listed as prooflike by the dealer, not the TPG). From eye appeal and my own preferences, clearly the $295 coin is the one I prefer of the 4. But I don't know I would pay 2x+ market price for this coin. If I counter on this one, I would probably split the difference between his two BIN asks, this would be about 17% less than his asking price, still 75% more than the generic market price.
Liberty . . . In God We Trust . . . not just words - A way of life
Comments
It is hard to come across in a email sometimes. I personally do not like the approach that some guys send in an email. They act all knowing and start spouting off greysheet prices etc. More times than not they skew the numbers in their favor. Those are the ones that irk me. They should get the price guides correct. I have had offers where flaw after flaw was mentioned, going on and on about problems. I just chuckle to myself and wonder why the person would even want the coin.lol
Personally when i come across a coin that is priced double the guides i keep moving. I can see a 10 percent, 15 percent and up to a 30 percent off offer but more than that means one of the 2 does not understand business.
Coins are a luxury that you do not need to survive, so you can price them at what ever you want and hope someone with more money than brains comes by looking with the wallet out.
My last part of my rant is dealers making offers on ebay coins that tell you coin is worth x wholesale and y retail. I probably agree with you but i am looking for the retail customer myself, why should i discount it to a total stranger so he can flip it?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>This is something that I have always had a problem with. I see a coin, I love the coin, then I see the price and just have to walk away because I don't feel comfortable offering what I think the coin is worth and risk upsetting or offending said dealer with a "low ball" offer.
Here's an example.
I found a gorgeous coin. I love this coin on this dealer's website. Then I see the price of nearly $1,200.00 and figure well let's check out HA and a few other places to see what that coin has been bringing. HA shows same grade same year going for $333, $520, $500.
PCGS price guide says $500.
Yet I don't feel comfortable offering that amount when the dealer obviously values it at so much more. The coin DOES have exceptional eye appeal I will not deny that. Lovely toning, but an extra $700 for it?
How would you handle this situation if you were the buyer looking in? Make the offer?
How about if you were the dealer getting such a low offer on a coin you've priced so high? >>
Heritage is often a mindfield for minus coins within a grade. Your $333, $520 and $500 price examples might actually be worst buys that the $1200 coin with exceptional eye appeal (in your own words). Matter of fact you didn't mention any redeeming attributes on the less expensive coins other then price so I find that noteworthy. Regardless, it's hard to make any judgements without seeing the coin. A lot of times prices are determined on what the dealer could replace the coin for. Maybe, just maybe this $1200 coin is truly at the top of the heap for said grade or series date/mintmark specific and will have no problems placing in with a customer who maybe be building an exceptional eye appealing set regardless of grade on the slab.
I've had posters here inquire about coins I've posted in the past picture threads. Inquirer asks," how much for the coin". I say it's not for sale. Inquirer- "what would it take to buy it". Not to be rude I say this is what I paid and this is what I believe is the replacement cost BUT I'm still not sure I'm willing to sell. Inquirer- "your price is too high and I feel it's only worth half that much, ok?". I put them on PM block and move on........MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>I have my eye on Ebay too but I'm willing to pay full price; that was never an issue. I'd be happy paying the average going rate of $500 on Heritage. I just can't see how somebody can get so far away from the market average. >>
I'm sorry, but this has to be said. Occasionally, a dealer who "specializes" in a particular series thinks he is so numismatically superior to anyone else who deals or collects in that series, that just because he possesses a coin in his inventory that makes the coin "special" somehow and it then becomes worth a MINIMUM of 50% above what the current market says that coin is worth. Essentially, he thinks that anyone should feel honored to own a coin that was sold by him. As if somehow because he is the one who sold the coin that means it carries some special provenance. There is one dealer, who will remain nameless because he is a forum member, I absolutely REFUSE to do business with because he has this exact attitude and pricing structure. I know this because I've engaged him in conversation at a couple of large coin shows and it's quite obvious from hearing him speak. The last thing I will say on this matter is that it's not any of the dealers here who specialize in Barber material. >>
There is more than one dealer here like that
know what you're doing. Sure, there are exceptions. But they are just that, exceptions.
If you're relying on the dealer's experience, expertise, and notoriety that could be a costly mistake. Getting $700-$1200 for $500 coins is what helps "move" the coin market.
If one's typical buying patterns entail paying $1200 for coins that typically seem to sell for $500, then that person needs to be very good at what they're doing and have consistantly
verified those skills by attempting to resell coins or entertained real offers along the way.
roadrunner
I never mind getting an offer. The worst thing I can do is turn it down. Of course there's probably a reason the dealer has it marked up so high, but it's probably worth finding out why.
If the reason isn't sufficient, it's probably time to find the coin somewhere else...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
<< <i>This is something that I have always had a problem with. I see a coin, I love the coin, then I see the price and just have to walk away because I don't feel comfortable offering what I think the coin is worth and risk upsetting or offending said dealer with a "low ball" offer.
Here's an example.
I found a gorgeous coin. I love this coin on this dealer's website. Then I see the price of nearly $1,200.00 and figure well let's check out HA and a few other places to see what that coin has been bringing. HA shows same grade same year going for $333, $520, $500.
PCGS price guide says $500.
Yet I don't feel comfortable offering that amount when the dealer obviously values it at so much more. The coin DOES have exceptional eye appeal I will not deny that. Lovely toning, but an extra $700 for it?
How would you handle this situation if you were the buyer looking in? Make the offer?
How about if you were the dealer getting such a low offer on a coin you've priced so high? >>
Try asking the dealer what his/her absolute lowest price they would be willing to accept and go from there.
David J Weygant Rare Coins. www.djwcoin.com
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
1) The dealer - I was looking at a nice coin @ a show. Dealer wanted $11,500, and the coin was worth somewhere between $9,500 and $10,500. I POLITELY asked him whether he would consider a slightly lower offer price, and the guy went at me verbally as if I propositioned his grandmother. I refused to do business with him after that.
Try and find out as much as you can about a particular dealer. Some like to buy many coins and move them with relatively small markups. Others consistently price their coins on the high side, feel that if the coin is theirs, it's worth another 1/2 point on the grading scale, and have estate plans to put it in their coffin when they die if they can't make their (fill in the blank) markup on said coin.
I always ask for a dealer's best price, and then pass or play. Unless you're in TDN or Tahoe Dale's league, if this particular coin is priced too high, pass. Be patient, a similar coin will come along soon enough. I don't care how much money you have to spend, just remember, you have no obligation to spend anything at a particular point in time.
2) The coin - Recent auction house archives are useful tools to price compare, but they are only guides. If the coin is a widget, like an 1883 CC Morgan in PC 5 - these archives are very helpful. However, you have to consider the rarity of the particular coin, as well as aspects of said coin. Ie., an attractively toned Morgan will bring far more at a given grade than a white one. Likewise, a problem-free Draped Bust coin, especially in higher grades, will command a premium over, say an AU Bust $ which was slabbed, but has 'issues.'
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Unless something drastic has happened to the market this sounds like a non-starter to me. The only other exception would be if the coin has a gold CAC sticker. I once paid, probably too much, for a very scarce Bechler dollar that was massively under graded in the holder.
The trouble with negociating on something based only a picture is that you don't really know what it looks like. All you are doing to going by a picture, and I can tell you from hard experiece that that can be dangerous to your economic welfare.
If it were possible I'd get out to some regional and national shows and see what you can find. To be honest a $500 or $1,200 U.S. coin is not that scarce in most cases. If it's a token or medal, that could be a different story. Lots of guys swear by the Internet, but to me there nothing like seeing the item in person.
<< <i>One need only to do some research on auction archives to dispel the notion that all coins graded, let's say, ms 65 by PCGS bring the same hammer price. Or that they all represent the same value. Many times the archives show a difference of thousands of dollars between the lowest successful bid and the highest. I can't count the number of times after viewing a coin before the auction that I bid 50% to 100% above greysheet ask only to be outbid. (Never buy a coin from a picture or description unless the dealer offers a return policy). I have bought and sold super lustrous and vividly toned commems for instance for many multiples of published prices with all parties extremely happy. Dave W.
David J Weygant Rare Coins. www.djwcoin.com >>
Now. now, David......let's not confuse the issue with facts!
The truth is, that my best returns were on coins that I "paid too much" for over the years. Some are seldom seen in that calibre anymore. My only regret is that I did not "pay too much" for many opportunities that presented themslves 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Sometimes, the "greysheet mentality" can be our own worst enemy. The bottom line is that a dealer does not have an obligation to sell a coin at what he perceives is a lowball price for the quality, anymore than a buyer has an obligation to purchase a coin at what he perceives is an inflated price. At that point it is "no harm, no foul," and time to move on.
Larry L.
<< <i>Sometimes, the "greysheet mentality" can be our own worst enemy. >>
There is a difference between "the greysheet mentality" and paying totally stupid prices. The bid prices for many things do have a basis in fact, and while they might no reflect the exact price one should pay, when you start talking about three or four times "bid" one might re-check your parameters.
I remember back in 1980 when some people thought they got a bargain when they bought something for only three or four times bid. Those people lost their shirts when reality set in.