The only thing surprising is that the Langbords lost in this round - but given that the judge had allowed for 'Plan B' at the 11th hour, I think it was inevitable that they were going to loose eventually.
<< <i>I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>
What about the other stray? What is it worth in Europe?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The jury reached a "unanimous" decision in favor of the Gov'T.
I'm interested in reading Steve Roach's personal opinion as to the outcome based on the fact that he was there reporting from the court room every day of the trial.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
How about someone starts a new Thread "Government Win's 1933 Case" or something similar.......
I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....
Just my view.....
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
<< <i>How about someone starts a new Thread "Government Win's 1933 Case" or something similar.......
I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....
Just my view..... >>
FWIW Fred, I posted a new Thread.
Cheers!
Kirk
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>I have to admit though-- when I read Coin World's (excellent, BTW) report on the Government lawyer's summation -- which was all folksy and easy for a layman to understand -- and compared it to CW's report on the Langbord attorney's summation (which seemed technical, convoluted & not at all clear to someone who may have only paid half attention during the trial), I had my first bad feeling about the likely verdict. >>
Absolutely. Jurors are often not attentive, in a jury I served on, we were not allowed to take notes, had to remember the key points. It seemed from Steve Roach's articles that the government hammered on their message, while the Langbords didn't seem to lay out why they should win the case; i.e., "#1, . . .. ,#2. . . . .,#3. . . . .,#4. . . . ., and therefore, members of the jury, the Langbords should win."
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
<< <i>As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
roadrunner >>
Agreed. I'd say $5M current value. Don't forget, there's always the appeal process.
Well, if there is indeed a legitimate owner of the so-called Farouk specimen, now would be the time to auction it.
However, I still think that the Feds bought it. They now own all but one.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Although I never hoped that I would own one, I still feel like we have lost. I agree with Stewart's summation, the governments opinion on the museum vs. private hands is short sighted. Would you not just love to go to an auction viewing and get to handle them?
<< <i>As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
roadrunner >>
...the only monetized one is really "bothersome"! This implies that the U.S. Gov't. has established common law precident for the term monitized which has huge implications on the future of the coin collecting hobby IMO.
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<< <i>"Regarding ultimate disposition of the coins, [Assistant U.S. Attorney Jacqueline] Romero had earlier in the day sidestepped her prior statement that implied the coins should go to a museum, calling it a “rhetorical flourish.” However, she said post-trial, “'I don’t believe they’ll be melted down,'” and added that they would likely be displayed in some capacity." "Tom Jurkowsky, director of the U.S. Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, said after the trial: “'A decision on where the coins will be stored or displayed has not been made. When that decision is made, the United States Mint will make an appropriate announcement. The pieces will remain at the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox until such decisions are made.'” "The 10 1933 $20 gold coins were brought to Philadelphia during the trial for the jurors to inspect, but have been returned to the U.S. Mint’s bullion depository in Fort Knox, Ky., where they had been stored since 2003." >>
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I would say the incredibly fast verdict was a shock. After all the time this case was being developed, and (at least what we learned outside the courtroom) what appeared to be a weak government case, I find the conclusion to be somewhat confusing. The speed and finality of the jury's decision, indicates to me, that somehow I must have missed something. Oh well... on to the next case. Cheers, RickO
Well, the old newspaper with the "Illegal Tender" book review definitely goes into the catbox this weekend. Mr. Tripp has earned my disgust.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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<< <i>I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>
What about the other stray? What is it worth in Europe?
<< <i>I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>
I believe the owner of the Farouk coin is also the winner of this case.
Maybe the Govt can be made to give them ten 1924 double eagles, or worse, just $200 in FRN's.
I'm interested in reading Steve Roach's personal opinion as to the outcome based on the fact that he was there reporting from the court room every day of the trial.
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We have come full circle.
How about someone starts a new Thread
"Government Win's 1933 Case" or something
similar.......
I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts
commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....
Just my view.....
So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?
<< <i>
<< <i>I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>
What about the other stray? What is it worth in Europe? >>
Seems likely that there is more than one more stray out there.
<< <i>How about someone starts a new Thread
"Government Win's 1933 Case" or something
similar.......
I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts
commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....
Just my view..... >>
FWIW Fred, I posted a new Thread.
Cheers!
Kirk
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<< <i>I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>
yep
<< <i>I have to admit though-- when I read Coin World's (excellent, BTW) report on the Government lawyer's summation -- which was all folksy and easy for a layman to understand -- and compared it to CW's report on the Langbord attorney's summation (which seemed technical, convoluted & not at all clear to someone who may have only paid half attention during the trial), I had my first bad feeling about the likely verdict. >>
Absolutely. Jurors are often not attentive, in a jury I served on, we were not allowed to take notes, had to remember the key points. It seemed from Steve Roach's articles that the government hammered on their message, while the Langbords didn't seem to lay out why they should win the case; i.e., "#1, . . .. ,#2. . . . .,#3. . . . .,#4. . . . ., and therefore, members of the jury, the Langbords should win."
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>That Sucks!
So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?
Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide.
<< <i>
<< <i>That Sucks!
So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?
Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>
I'll take mine FEDEX
<< <i>
<< <i>That Sucks!
So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?
Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>
Wouldn't be right to melt "national treasures" now, would it?
They should be sold or displayed, IMO.
Lance.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
roadrunner
<< <i>As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
roadrunner >>
Agreed. I'd say $5M current value. Don't forget, there's always the appeal process.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Who owns the coins now?
However, I still think that the Feds bought it. They now own all but one.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>That Sucks!
So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?
Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>
Oh that's right. Our fearless leader is all about spreading the wealth. Time to put our money where his mouth is... or something like that.
<< <i>As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.
Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.
roadrunner >>
...the only monetized one is really "bothersome"!
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<< <i>"Regarding ultimate disposition of the coins, [Assistant U.S. Attorney Jacqueline] Romero had earlier in the day sidestepped her prior statement that implied the coins should go to a museum, calling it a “rhetorical flourish.” However, she said post-trial, “'I don’t believe they’ll be melted down,'” and added that they would likely be displayed in some capacity."
"Tom Jurkowsky, director of the U.S. Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, said after the trial: “'A decision on where the coins will be stored or displayed has not been made. When that decision is made, the United States Mint will make an appropriate announcement. The pieces will remain at the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox until such decisions are made.'”
"The 10 1933 $20 gold coins were brought to Philadelphia during the trial for the jurors to inspect, but have been returned to the U.S. Mint’s bullion depository in Fort Knox, Ky., where they had been stored since 2003." >>
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