Official Langbord Trial Update Thread

Artist · July 20, 2011 5:59AM

The only thing surprising is that the Langbords lost in this round - but given that the judge had allowed for 'Plan B' at the 11th hour, I think it was inevitable that they were going to loose eventually.

Dennis88 · July 20, 2011 5:59AM

keyman64 · July 20, 2011 6:01AM

AUandAG · July 20, 2011 6:02AM

Thanks for all the input Sanction! We do appreciate your efforts!!

bob

CoinRaritiesOnline · July 20, 2011 6:03AM

I assume the Langbord's can & will appeal, no?

CaptHenway · July 20, 2011 6:04AM

<< I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>

What about the other stray? What is it worth in Europe?

Flash · July 20, 2011 6:05AM

<< I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>

I believe the owner of the Farouk coin is also the winner of this case.

EagleEye · July 20, 2011 6:07AM

I assume the Langbord's can & will appeal, no?

Maybe the Govt can be made to give them ten 1924 double eagles, or worse, just $200 in FRN's.

DieClash · July 20, 2011 6:07AM

The jury reached a "unanimous" decision in favor of the Gov'T.

I'm interested in reading Steve Roach's personal opinion as to the outcome based on the fact that he was there reporting from the court room every day of the trial.

CaptHenway · July 20, 2011 6:08AM

360
We have come full circle.

FredWeinberg · July 20, 2011 6:08AM

How about someone starts a new Thread
"Government Win's 1933 Case" or something
similar.......

I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts
commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....

Just my view.....

TorinoCobra71 · July 20, 2011 6:09AM

That Sucks!

So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?

BAJJERFAN · July 20, 2011 6:11AM

<< 

<< I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>

What about the other stray? What is it worth in Europe? >>

Seems likely that there is more than one more stray out there.

DieClash · July 20, 2011 6:12AM

<< How about someone starts a new Thread
"Government Win's 1933 Case" or something
similar.......

I'm sure there will be hundreds of new posts
commenting on the verdict; lets start from scratch.....

Just my view..... >>

FWIW Fred, I posted a new Thread.

Cheers!

Kirk

Bajajim · July 20, 2011 6:18AM

<< I suppose the owner of the Farouk coin is very pleased. It just became a $10 Million coin. >>

yep

RichieURich · July 20, 2011 6:25AM

<< I have to admit though-- when I read Coin World's (excellent, BTW) report on the Government lawyer's summation -- which was all folksy and easy for a layman to understand -- and compared it to CW's report on the Langbord attorney's summation (which seemed technical, convoluted & not at all clear to someone who may have only paid half attention during the trial), I had my first bad feeling about the likely verdict. >>

Absolutely. Jurors are often not attentive, in a jury I served on, we were not allowed to take notes, had to remember the key points. It seemed from Steve Roach's articles that the government hammered on their message, while the Langbords didn't seem to lay out why they should win the case; i.e., "#1, . . .. ,#2. . . . .,#3. . . . .,#4. . . . ., and therefore, members of the jury, the Langbords should win."

BAJJERFAN · July 20, 2011 6:30AM

<< That Sucks!

So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?

>>

Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide.

ModCrewman · July 20, 2011 6:34AM

I'm needing a popcorn emoticon while I wait for SanctionII's assessment and opinion.

scotty1419 · July 20, 2011 6:36AM

<< 

<< That Sucks!

So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?

>>

Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>

I'll take mine FEDEX

shorecoll · July 20, 2011 6:52AM

I forget since this has been going on so long, but I assume Berke on working on contingency which means he appeals or gets nada?

lkeigwin · July 20, 2011 6:54AM

<< 

<< That Sucks!

So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?

>>

Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>

Wouldn't be right to melt "national treasures" now, would it?

They should be sold or displayed, IMO.
Lance.

EagleEye · July 20, 2011 6:56AM

Although they were on display at the San Francisco ANA, it would be great if they could get them displayed at this year's show.

roadrunner · July 20, 2011 6:58AM

As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.

Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut · July 20, 2011 7:03AM

<< As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.

Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.

roadrunner >>

Agreed. I'd say $5M current value. Don't forget, there's always the appeal process.

keyman64 · July 20, 2011 7:13AM

Ok, SanctionII.....what is the possible TIMELINE and STRATEGY for the Appeal?

coolest · July 20, 2011 7:14AM

OK
Who owns the coins now?

CaptHenway · July 20, 2011 7:17AM

Well, if there is indeed a legitimate owner of the so-called Farouk specimen, now would be the time to auction it.

However, I still think that the Feds bought it. They now own all but one.

TD

FullCameo · July 20, 2011 7:50AM

<< 

<< That Sucks!

So are the coins now going to the Smelter or the Smithsonian?

>>

Since they are owned by the people, it is only fair that the people decide. >>

Oh that's right. Our fearless leader is all about spreading the wealth. Time to put our money where his mouth is... or something like that.

clackamas · July 20, 2011 7:55AM

Although I never hoped that I would own one, I still feel like we have lost. I agree with Stewart's summation, the governments opinion on the museum vs. private hands is short sighted. Would you not just love to go to an auction viewing and get to handle them?

DieClash · July 20, 2011 9:01AM

<< As I see it, the only way the Farouk specimen goes back to $7-10 MILL in value is if those 10 get melted. Even if the Smithsonian keeps all 10, the fact that there are known to be 13 others in existence (and no doubt others too), that will tend to keep a lid on the value of the only monetized one. The Farouk coin realized $7 MILL before it was common knowledge that 10 others resided with the Langbords. So even with the current decision, I don't see it gaining value unless the others are melted. And I don't see the govt melting down >$25 MILL in potential value to prove a point.

Would much rather spend my $7 MILL on a coin that is known to be unique or the best out of 2 or 3 known. Owning the only legal one out of 13, which may or not be the finest available doesn't quite cut it for me. But the story behind the 1933 Saints just got a lot better.

roadrunner >>

...the only monetized one is really "bothersome"!

This implies that the U.S. Gov't. has established common law precident for the term monitized which has huge implications on the future of the coin collecting hobby IMO.

CertifiedGoldCoins · July 20, 2011 10:22PM

Coin World summary is HERE

<< "Regarding ultimate disposition of the coins, [Assistant U.S. Attorney Jacqueline] Romero had earlier in the day sidestepped her prior statement that implied the coins should go to a museum, calling it a “rhetorical flourish.” However, she said post-trial, “'I don’t believe they’ll be melted down,'” and added that they would likely be displayed in some capacity."
"Tom Jurkowsky, director of the U.S. Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, said after the trial: “'A decision on where the coins will be stored or displayed has not been made. When that decision is made, the United States Mint will make an appropriate announcement. The pieces will remain at the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox until such decisions are made.'”
"The 10 1933 $20 gold coins were brought to Philadelphia during the trial for the jurors to inspect, but have been returned to the U.S. Mint’s bullion depository in Fort Knox, Ky., where they had been stored since 2003." >>

ricko · July 21, 2011 12:41AM

I would say the incredibly fast verdict was a shock. After all the time this case was being developed, and (at least what we learned outside the courtroom) what appeared to be a weak government case, I find the conclusion to be somewhat confusing. The speed and finality of the jury's decision, indicates to me, that somehow I must have missed something. Oh well... on to the next case. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway · July 21, 2011 12:57AM

Well, the old newspaper with the "Illegal Tender" book review definitely goes into the catbox this weekend. Mr. Tripp has earned my disgust.

CaptHenway · July 29, 2026 5:34PM

@Julian said:
<< Funny that no one has commented about the possibility that there might be 14 more out there somewhere. >>

There is another coin out there and the government is aware of the coin, but does not know where it is, IMHO.

I handled that coin in the 70's and had an opportunity to offer it again in the early 80's. I was unsuccessful in placing the item. The Secret Service has interviewed me about this, so I am sure that the USG knows about this.

I supplied pictures to both Tripp and Frankel and am "Ted" in Frankel's book.

OLD THREAD ALERT!
Note this old comment from Julian Leidman about one particular 1933 $20 that used to be out in the wild. He provided pictures of it to both Tripp and Frankel. At least one of them included the pictures in their book.
Somebody PLEASE take their book(s) to the ANA and see if the pictures match the non-Langbord coin on display. Theoretically the Langbord coins are in 10 consecutively numbered slabs, and the new one is in something else. Please take lots of pictures.
TD

MsMorrisine · July 29, 2026 6:13PM

pleasewe need someone with a professional set-up, too. but any cell phone pic is better than none

SanctionII · July 29, 2026 6:37PM

Hard to believe this resurrected thread finished up 15 years ago.

My father attended a national show in Denver in 2006, where the 10 double eagles (then in NGC slabs) were on display. He thought the display of the coins was great.

GoldFinger1969 · August 4, 2026 7:53AM

Captain, it's confusing....but as I recall the new coin might be the one that was in the Dallas Bank Collection owned by Jeff Browning (anybody ever meet him ?).

mr1931S · August 4, 2026 10:50AM

The stage had been set for the Langbord case for any 1933 Double Eagles that might surface after the legal settlement for the Farouk piece which had been smuggled into the United States. The United States made a guarantee to whoever bought the Farouk piece that it would be the ONLY 1933 dated Double Eagle ever and forever considered legal to own.

scotty1419 · August 4, 2026 12:55PM

@mr1931S said:
The stage had been set for the Langbord case for any 1933 Double Eagles that might surface after the legal settlement for the Farouk piece which had been smuggled into the United States. The United States made a guarantee to whoever bought the Farouk piece that it would be the ONLY 1933 dated Double Eagle ever and forever considered legal to own.

...in the US?

CaptHenway · August 10, 2026 8:26AM

@CaptHenway said:

@Julian said:
<< Funny that no one has commented about the possibility that there might be 14 more out there somewhere. >>

There is another coin out there and the government is aware of the coin, but does not know where it is, IMHO.

I handled that coin in the 70's and had an opportunity to offer it again in the early 80's. I was unsuccessful in placing the item. The Secret Service has interviewed me about this, so I am sure that the USG knows about this.

I supplied pictures to both Tripp and Frankel and am "Ted" in Frankel's book.

OLD THREAD ALERT!
Note this old comment from Julian Leidman about one particular 1933 $20 that used to be out in the wild. He provided pictures of it to both Tripp and Frankel. At least one of them included the pictures in their book.
Somebody PLEASE take their book(s) to the ANA and see if the pictures match the non-Langbord coin on display. Theoretically the Langbord coins are in 10 consecutively numbered slabs, and the new one is in something else. Please take lots of pictures.
TD

Did anybody look at both the Frankel book and the Tripp book to see which, or both, of the books illustrated that then unaccounted for example of the 1933 $20? I do not have the strength to search for them in my library.

mr1931S · August 10, 2026 10:54AM

in the US?

Anyone who actually read Frankel's book should have clearly understood that whoever seeking legal ownership of 1933 double eagle(s) that might surface after the auction for the ex Farouk piece would be facing enormous legal hurdles.

CaptHenway · August 10, 2026 1:07PM

@scotty1419 said:

@mr1931S said:
The stage had been set for the Langbord case for any 1933 Double Eagles that might surface after the legal settlement for the Farouk piece which had been smuggled into the United States. The United States made a guarantee to whoever bought the Farouk piece that it would be the ONLY 1933 dated Double Eagle ever and forever considered legal to own.

...in the US?

For some reason this reminded me of the scene in "Blazing Saddles" where Clevon Little is applying for a job in Harvey Kormann's gang and he brags about "stampeding cattle." Kormann says that that doesn't sound like much, and Little says

"In the Vatican?"

mr1931S · August 10, 2026 1:24PM

@mr1931S said:
in the US?

Anyone who actually read Frankel's book should have clearly understood that whoever seeking legal ownership of 1933 double eagle(s) that might surface after the auction for the ex Farouk piece would be facing enormous legal hurdles.

I'll go so far as to say that whether the coins were stolen or not is really beside the point. Even if Langbord had prevailed in Langbord vs United States and gotten the coins back in their possession, the legal battle most likely would have continued.

mr1931S · August 10, 2026 2:02PM

I'm going to give Frankel's book another read. I especially enjoyed her writings about King Farouk.

SDSportsFan · August 10, 2026 3:09PM

@CaptHenway said:

@scotty1419 said:

@mr1931S said:
The stage had been set for the Langbord case for any 1933 Double Eagles that might surface after the legal settlement for the Farouk piece which had been smuggled into the United States. The United States made a guarantee to whoever bought the Farouk piece that it would be the ONLY 1933 dated Double Eagle ever and forever considered legal to own.

...in the US?

For some reason this reminded me of the scene in "Blazing Saddles" where Clevon Little is applying for a job in Harvey Kormann's gang and he brags about "stampeding cattle." Kormann says that that doesn't sound like much, and Little says

"In the Vatican?"

Kinky!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

scotty1419 · August 10, 2026 6:00PM

Question for debating sake - another example pops up for auction in Switzerland - is the auction going to completion? Is the US going to try and bring a case for repatriation/confiscation?

CaptHenway · August 10, 2026 6:53PM

@mr1931S said:
I'm going to give Frankel's book another read. I especially enjoyed her writings about King Farouk.

Please take a look to see if it has a picture of a then unknown specimen.

mr1931S · August 11, 2026 3:18PM

@CaptHenway said:

@mr1931S said:
I'm going to give Frankel's book another read. I especially enjoyed her writings about King Farouk.

Please take a look to see if it has a picture of a then unknown specimen.

Indeed there is an image in Frankel's book of a 1933 Double Eagle that "the government doesn't know about." It's the very last image in the photo section just before Chapter Ten.

CaptHenway · August 11, 2026 3:45PM

@mr1931S said:

@CaptHenway said:

@mr1931S said:
I'm going to give Frankel's book another read. I especially enjoyed her writings about King Farouk.

Please take a look to see if it has a picture of a then unknown specimen.

Indeed there is an image in Frankel's book of a 1933 Double Eagle that "the government doesn't know about." It's the very last image in the photo section just before Chapter Ten.

Thank you.

Official Langbord Trial Update Thread

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