1962-D "Wildly" Toned Franklin Half Dollar From My Son Justin's Collection

wondercoin · June 29, 2011 1:11PM

Error holder too (the coin is a 1962-D, not a 1962-P). It looks like it was purchased by Justin from an auction in September, 2005. Since that time, Justin became a chemistry major at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and is studying, among other things, "thin film interference." He hopes to fully understand the natural toning process and the forces which transform a simple tone-free surface into something numismatically atristic. Wondercoin.

Goldbully · June 29, 2011 1:16PM

<< Error holder too (the coin is a 1962-D, not a 1962-P). It looks like it was purchased by Justin from an auction in September, 2005. Since that time, Justin became a chemistry major at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and is studying, among other things, "thin film interference." He hopes to fully understand the natural toning process and the forces which transform a simple tone-free surface into something numismatically atristic. Wondercoin.

>>

Looks EZ Baked to me....but, I love the colours!!!!!!!!!!!!!

airplanenut · June 29, 2011 1:21PM

Pretty colors, but I think NGC blew it on that coin.

wondercoin · June 29, 2011 1:21PM

Goldbully: Then, the up to (8) years tuition I am paying will have been even BETTER well spent!!

Wondercoin

Goldbully · June 29, 2011 1:33PM

<< Goldbully: Then, the up to (8) years tuition I am paying will have been even BETTER well spent!!

Wondercoin >>

Dear Wondercoin,

You've got a major point in this discussion!!!

GB

mkman123 · June 29, 2011 1:40PM

Perhaps it was baked or atd after being slabbed?

SkyMan · June 29, 2011 1:42PM

Personally I'd like to know what the guys at NGC were smoking.

Congratulations to your son doing a chemistry major. Our country desperately needs more grads with technical training/skills.

wondercoin · June 29, 2011 1:46PM

Mkman- It was that "wild" back in 05 at the time of the auction. I also seem to recall that a second coin surfaced (not quite as wild as this one though in my view) and was also auctioned off a short time after the sale of Justin's coin (by a different auction house if memory serves me right). That coin sold in very spirited bidding and then I seem to recall it found itself in a major Franklin dealer's inventory with a huge asking price. I do not know what ever became of that coin? Perhaps a board member here might know.

Wondercoin

P.S. I just looked and could not find anything in the Heritage archives.

stman · June 29, 2011 1:54PM

"Who cares if it's AT, if you think it's pretty and you like it that's all that matters." I learned that right here on this board. Thanks CU!

Bear had one years ago that might have been similar. I can't remember for sure.

wondercoin · June 29, 2011 2:12PM

Stman- Absolutely!

When Justin bought this coin in 2005, he was just 13 years old. He LOVED this coin and made the decision on his own to purchase it. He spent a huge sum of money for it as a 13 year old kid. Today, on his Summer break from college, he pulled his coin out of the bank, admired it, and snapped some pics of it. I asked him if I could post his pics so that the coin forum could engage in a healthy discussion about the coin (which I knew would be coming). He was fine with that. He realizes he owns a "controversial" coin. But, he still enjoys it greatly all the same. I asked him today if he would consider selling it and he said, flatly, "no."

mkman123 · June 29, 2011 2:22PM

Wondercoin thanks for the extra info. This coin is wildly colored like the one
Aurora borealis has, his is pcgs slabbed

FullCameo · June 29, 2011 2:37PM

<< Mkman- It was that "wild" back in 05 at the time of the auction. I also seem to recall that a second coin surfaced (not quite as wild as this one though in my view) and was also auctioned off a short time after the sale of Justin's coin (by a different auction house if memory serves me right). That coin sold in very spirited bidding and then I seem to recall it found itself in a major Franklin dealer's inventory with a huge asking price. I do not know what ever became of that coin? Perhaps a board member here might know.

Wondercoin

P.S. I just looked and could not find anything in the Heritage archives. >>

I recall R&I having some intense Frankins a few years back. According to Rick, they came from a mining town with a high concentration of sulfur in the air.

SkyMan · June 29, 2011 2:43PM

<< 

<< Mkman- It was that "wild" back in 05 at the time of the auction. I also seem to recall that a second coin surfaced (not quite as wild as this one though in my view) and was also auctioned off a short time after the sale of Justin's coin (by a different auction house if memory serves me right). That coin sold in very spirited bidding and then I seem to recall it found itself in a major Franklin dealer's inventory with a huge asking price. I do not know what ever became of that coin? Perhaps a board member here might know.

Wondercoin

P.S. I just looked and could not find anything in the Heritage archives. >>

I recall R&I having some intense Frankins a few years back. According to Rick, they came from a mining town with a high concentration of sulfur in the air. >>

I've seen two of the three coins that, "were from a mining town". Let's just say that I'm not interested in purchasing them at any price above graysheet for their grades.

Bochiman · June 29, 2011 3:42PM

<< 

<< Mkman- It was that "wild" back in 05 at the time of the auction. I also seem to recall that a second coin surfaced (not quite as wild as this one though in my view) and was also auctioned off a short time after the sale of Justin's coin (by a different auction house if memory serves me right). That coin sold in very spirited bidding and then I seem to recall it found itself in a major Franklin dealer's inventory with a huge asking price. I do not know what ever became of that coin? Perhaps a board member here might know.

Wondercoin

P.S. I just looked and could not find anything in the Heritage archives. >>

I recall R&I having some intense Frankins a few years back. According to Rick, they came from a mining town with a high concentration of sulfur in the air. >>

I've heard that story before.....gotta love the stories like that.....

Tdec1000 · June 29, 2011 6:01PM

Mitch, thanks for the give away!!

Nice coin.... I like it with or without controversy!!

frnklnlvr · June 29, 2011 6:56PM

Looks like it's got a shot at FBL.

ricko · June 29, 2011 10:01PM

If that was from 'a mining town', I would wager all the canaries in that town died......

Cheers, RickO

JJM · June 29, 2011 10:06PM

thats AT all the way..................

AngryTurtle · June 29, 2011 10:27PM

Definitely a "Wow!", controversial coin.

Wondercoin, what is your philosophy on purchasing such a coin as this? (I know your son purchased this particular example) Specifically, a wild toner blessed by a major TPG that is atypical for the date/mm? Only if you think it is MA? NT? Dont worry, be Happy?

georgiacop50 · June 29, 2011 10:52PM

Highly suspect color and therefore undeserving of the obvious "bump" for color gradewise.

astrorat · June 30, 2011 12:03AM

<< Congratulations to your son doing a chemistry major. Our country desperately needs more grads with technical training/skills. >>

Amen!

pmac · June 30, 2011 12:49AM

Is there a chance that he has some pix from when he bought it? Side by side comparisons would be interesting.

airplanenut · June 30, 2011 1:00AM

<< 

<< Congratulations to your son doing a chemistry major. Our country desperately needs more grads with technical training/skills. >>

Amen! >>

Nerd

...as the son and brother of chemistry majors, I'm allowed to say that.

scher · June 30, 2011 1:15AM

Cool coin..i love it!
But as cool as the coin is, it pales compared to young Justin..
I have had the oppty to spend a bit of time with him and cant imagine
anything but fantastic in his future..
Bruce Scher

Monstarcoins · June 30, 2011 1:34AM

Thats a really sick coin!!! NT all the way!

wondercoin · June 30, 2011 2:46AM

Thanks Bruce (and others). Justin finished up his first year with about a 3.7 gpa, which is especially impressive for all the Chemistry and Math classes he had to take (6 in all) during his first year (Jeremy should know)! I trust your son is doing well at Stanford ... talk about another kid we all can be very proud of (and let's throw Jeremy into that group even though he dislikes Justin's coin)!! And, Bruce... my daughter is now over at Univ. of CA, San Diego and has been doing great. She has had a goal to help people with eating disorders since she was a kid and so she is a psychology major over there. Anyway, back to coin talk ...

I was speaking last night with one of the top Franklin collectors and what was interesting from the conversation was that he mentioned that he had only heard of 2 or 3 "wildly" toned Franklins of this caliber coming out of that "mining town" after all these years. Which has me personally wondering ... if true, why is that the case? Anyone with information on this?

AngryTurtle... great question. Throughout my (20)+ years of collecting nicely toned Washington quarters, I have, here and there, stepped out and purchased (either through auction or privately) a coin that I just was not 100% sure about, because the coin "spoke to me" at the time (I think Bruce could probably comment on this point too). Five years, ten years later, the coin might still be singing a sweet song to me in the collection, or "speaking a different language" if you know what I mean! If you look at the 1959-P Washington Quarter thread on the US Coin Forum now, you will see a coin I recently posted from my collection that in no way shape, or form fits the bill for what a 1959-P dated quarter should look like (color-wise). Now, five to ten years later, that coin still "sings a very sweet song" to me in my personal collection. I have one or two others that I don't understand why I even bought them ten years back as they are speaking a different language to me today (even though they are still slabbed as top pops by PCGS or NGC and for some reason I can't seem to part with them to this day... perhaps my daughter will be able to figure that "problem" out when she completes her studies!!) You mature as a collector - right? And, this isn't to say Justin made a mistake at all buying this particular coin when he was a 13 year old boy, because I asked him just yesterday if he wanted to sell it (and possibly use the funds towards a neat new car like nearly all 19 year boys aspire to get) and he told me he still loved his purchase and wanted to keep it. Who needs a car on the UCSB campus anyway!!

Wondercoin

wondercoin · June 30, 2011 9:14AM

"Is there a chance that he has some pix from when he bought it? Side by side comparisons would be interesting."

pmac - Justin left the auction sticker on the coin. It looks like it was the Sept. 2005 Superior sale. I am not sure I have that catalog any more. Perhaps someone on the boards does and can send me a pic of the coin from the catalog.

Wondercoin

Zoins · June 30, 2011 3:12PM

<< Who cares if it's AT, if you think it's pretty and you like it that's all that matters. >>

There's a bit more to it than that. AT vs. NT matters, as does the slab and whether it looked like that when it was slabbed.

Regardless, it is a very vibrant Frankie, especially for being slabbed.

Thanks for sharing it!

coindudeonebay · June 30, 2011 3:17PM

PawPaul hasn't replied? Did he slip on his drool trying to reply! LOL

melvin289 · June 30, 2011 4:11PM

Mitch,

Since your son's name is Justin, is the Justyz Collection on the slab something he added as a 13 year old or is the name in red letters part of NGC's Slabbing?

Ron

stman · June 30, 2011 4:26PM

<< 

<< Who cares if it's AT, if you think it's pretty and you like it that's all that matters. >>

There's a bit more to it than that. AT vs. NT matters, as does the slab and whether it looked like that when it was slabbed.

Regardless, it is a very vibrant Frankie, especially for being slabbed.

Thanks for sharing it! >>

I see you chose to only quote part of what I said. The rest of what I said kinda says my feelings on the subject.

SkyMan · June 30, 2011 4:40PM

<< PawPaul hasn't replied? Did he slip on his drool trying to reply! LOL >>

My understanding is that he got the boot from the PCGS boards.

leothelyon · June 30, 2011 4:44PM

Having some understanding of the various chemical makeups for the different colors displayed, how some colors are of thicker or thinner crusts than others, their progress of formation when oxidation takes place. From green to red patina, there are natural external influences that cause coins to tone the way they do. Becoming familiar with how natural toning takes place helps the viewer accept or reject the toning.
Personally, I couldn't say one way or another with 75% accuracy but I do know that toning such as the OP's coin is possible. If I were able to say it was AT, than I better be able to back it up with some sound reasoning so others will know why I would make such a statement.
I also want to add that it's impossible to tell unless you have the coin under some high magnification to see how the toning progressed in the molecules of the metal. Which could show several layers of colors on the surface, in the various ways the coin is tilted, another way to tell if it's natural.

How's that for my 2 cents?

Leo

Zoins · June 30, 2011 4:45PM

<< 

<< 

<< Who cares if it's AT, if you think it's pretty and you like it that's all that matters. >>

There's a bit more to it than that. AT vs. NT matters, as does the slab and whether it looked like that when it was slabbed.

Regardless, it is a very vibrant Frankie, especially for being slabbed.

Thanks for sharing it! >>

I see you chose to only quote part of what I said. The rest of what I said kinda says my feelings on the subject. >>

The part I quoted from you appeared to be a quote from someone else since you had it in quotes and since I just felt like addressing that, I thought it was appropriate.

However, I don't mind replying to your comments as well:

<< "Who cares if it's AT, if you think it's pretty and you like it that's all that matters." I learned that right here on this board. Thanks CU! >>

Are there any AT situations that stand out? If so, I'm interested to hear of them as I'm always interested to hear of sophisticated AT that fools the TPGs.

<< Bear had one years ago that might have been similar. I can't remember for sure. >>

I'm not familiar with Bear's coin and you didn't comment further so I didn't have any comment here; however I am curious to learn more. Was it a slabbed, proven AT, coin?

stman · June 30, 2011 5:00PM

Zoins, You took my post way too serious. Did you not see the little winkie? I know you like to debate these things, but yes, I have seen many folks on here through the years not care if a coin is AT just as long as they think it's "pretty." And the statement I wrote has been said many times through the years, hence, me saying I learned it right here. Do you really think I'm that naive? LMAO Wait. don't answer that because apparently you do.

Zoins · June 30, 2011 5:09PM

stman, I'll work on being less serious

I actually wasn't replying specifically to you but just commenting on the general statement. There was also no desire to imply you believed the quote you had provided.

However, if Bear's coin was similar in toning and proven AT, I'm curious to hear of it. Perhaps, Bear will comment as well.

stman · June 30, 2011 5:17PM

Zoins, I said.......

<< Bear had one years ago that might have been similar. I can't remember for sure. >>

I said might have been similar, I can't remember for sure. Sorry, no juicy details.

Heck, I'm not saying the OP coin is AT, and I certainly didn't say Bears former coin was either. Now would I touch either one? L NO!

Please don't ask me why not. Heh Heh

Zoins · June 30, 2011 5:27PM

<< Sorry, no juicy details.

>>

Too bad. It might be fun to have a catalog of controversial coins and their stories. Imagine if there were a Numismatic Enquirer

wondercoin · June 30, 2011 8:23PM

Ron: Neither. At my request, Justin simply edited out the serial number when he posted the pics of his coin and replaced it with the name he gave to his collection of coins.

Good post Leo!

Wondercoin

mkman123 · June 30, 2011 8:43PM

Wondercoin, do you know how much your son paid for that coin?

Off topic, pawpaul got banned? Anyone know why? Wow doubt we will see him ats seeing how much
he dislikes ngc.

frnklnlvr · June 30, 2011 9:30PM

Here's another 1962-D NGC MS66* that sold in a Jan. 2006 Heritage auction. Wonder if this came from the same "mining town"?

kaz · June 30, 2011 11:05PM

I hope Justin had a chance to read sunnywood's posts on toning. They were fascinating and solidly science based.

wondercoin · July 1, 2011 2:54AM

Franklnlvr - Thanks for finding that Heritage coin. Hard to say if there is a connection as Justin's coin is so much more vibrant and colorful.

Wondercoin

wondercoin · July 1, 2011 2:58AM

Mkman123 - I do not recall the cost off the top of my head. And, there is no easy way to pull up old Superior prices.

Wondercoin

wondercoin · July 4, 2011 5:59AM

We tracked down the auction catalog from the sale where Justin purchased his 1962-D Franklin. That sale had a near complete collection of lovely toned Franklin Half Dollars in it. That top pop 1960-D Franklin in the sale pictured here (Lot 3956) fetched more than $6,000 in the auction. Justin's coin in "spirited bidding" fetched a little over $3,000. Justin did not want to pay over $2,000 (which was all the money he had at that time), but you know how that goes. Dad chipped in the difference. I guess Justin owes me 33% of the sales price whenever he sells it! Glad I had him do the research!!

Wondercoin

mkman123 · July 4, 2011 7:51AM

The more I look at that coin the more I like it.

Ronyahski · July 4, 2011 9:48AM

<< 
I was speaking last night with one of the top Franklin collectors and what was interesting from the conversation was that he mentioned that he had only heard of 2 or 3 "wildly" toned Franklins of this caliber coming out of that "mining town" after all these years. Which has me personally wondering ... if true, why is that the case? Anyone with information on this?

Wondercoin >>

W.C. - Your Franklin friend is right, there were 3 "mining town" coins. They are however, dated 1960-D and not the coins in your post. There are a couple of strings where these coins were specifically disussed, including the story behind them.

When your 1962-Ds came out, I recall 2 of them surfacing. I'm pretty sure I had the other one in hand and took some pics of it. I'll dig into my old computer and see if the pic is there.

wondercoin · July 4, 2011 12:37PM

"W.C. - Your Franklin friend is right, there were 3 "mining town" coins. They are however, dated 1960-D and not the coins in your post".

Thanks for that information! I would love to see the other 62-D if you can dig up scans. So, no canary died in the town where Justin's coin came from ... what a relief!

Wondercoin

keets · July 4, 2011 1:28PM

pennyannie · July 4, 2011 8:09PM

Wondercoin- Nice coin!!, i bet if placed for sale a few would be interested in taking the coin home with them. Getting the wallet out and adding to what ever my son is interested in buying seems to happen on a regular basis around my house. LOL I think most of the time i cause that by suggesting something nicer or better. I am glad that i am able to do that for my son.

travelingman · July 6, 2011 10:16AM

Real toning or not it looks nice.

1962-D "Wildly" Toned Franklin Half Dollar From My Son Justin's Collection

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1962-D &quot;Wildly&quot; Toned Franklin Half Dollar From My Son Justin's Collection

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

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1962-D "Wildly" Toned Franklin Half Dollar From My Son Justin's Collection