Do you consider a dealer that collects...

COALPORTER · June 8, 2011 1:38PM

to be "competing" against you? I'm not sure what that really means, but I know a dealer that went "full time", and then made a grand announcement that as not to compete with his customers, he no longer collects. I know many many other dealers whom make no secret that they collect and only got into dealing as a way to get better coins and sell some coins for profit. I don't really see where it matters as long as they buy and sell at fair prices and are honest. Does anyone really see dealer collectors as unfair competition or believe that dealers should not collect too?

keyman64 · June 8, 2011 1:41PM

If they collect the same thing you do, in the same grades...then yes. Otherwise, NO! If they collect the exact same stuff as you then you will clearly need to find a different dealer.

coindeuce · June 8, 2011 1:48PM

I have customers that are more than pleased to know that I have a collecting habit. Even if they collect the same subjects, they are confident that I have better resources than they do, and they know that I can help them. I encourage customers who collect the same subjects to buy from me with the understanding that I will, and have bought back their purchases at times, either for my continued enjoyment or for resale.

PerryHall · June 8, 2011 5:12PM

Sounds like a conflict of interest. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection.

coinsarefun · June 8, 2011 6:33PM

Every time I ask to see if they have any toned Morgans they say oh no the owners saves them for himself.
It makes me wonder how many thousands, literally thousands that are being held by these guy's?
I have been told this in coin shops in Southern California, Arizona and Nevada.

ambro51 · June 8, 2011 9:15PM

From a specialists point of view, I like a dealer to KNOW the series and 'think' like a collector.

But, Im sure, given two pieces on the market a collecting dealer will always take the PQ piece for their own collection.

ricko · June 8, 2011 9:43PM

If suspicions voiced here are correct (and I am not disputing it) then there must be some AWESOME dealer collections... Cheers, RickO

Broadstruck · June 8, 2011 9:45PM

I'd rather have a dealer that's still a collector... Instead of a collector that lost their passion for their hobby once a dealer.

llafoe · June 8, 2011 10:15PM

<< I'd rather have a dealer that's still a collector... Instead of a collector that lost their passion for their hobby once a dealer. >>

Competition is good... if it weren't for competition, I would have been married 20 times instead of only 3 times!

barrytrot · June 8, 2011 11:52PM

<< I'd rather have a dealer that's still a collector... Instead of a collector that lost their passion for their hobby once a dealer. >>

That was exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP.

A dealer that is doing it for the love will find you better coins than one that is going through the motions as a "job".

lkeigwin · June 9, 2011 12:08AM

Makes no difference to me. I care that a dealer have coins I like at fair prices.

I like copper and always drop by to see what Charmy's got. She keeps what she likes for her collection. Why shouldn't she or why should I care?
Lance.

streeter · June 9, 2011 12:22AM

I buy from dealers who do not collect and sell to dealers that collect. Works out just fine. When my favorite collector/dealer buys from me--his eyes light up when I show him the RIGHT STUFF--and he gives me smokin deals on coins ....the best of all worlds. Effortless transactions and everybody is happy.

FredWeinberg · June 9, 2011 12:33AM

Most dealers, who have a least a basic
'love' for numismatics (as opposed to
a pure business reason for being dealers)
collect coins or currency.

They generally collect something that
is distinct and different from what they
deal in, but not in all cases.

I know a huge US gold dealer that collects
specific Territorial gold coins and currency;
others will collect something that's close
to them - their State currency, for example.

One of the first things I learned when I started
as a full-time dealer in the early 70's was that
it was difficult to collect what you deal in for
two reasons: (major mint errors, in my case)

1. You would want to buy at cost (or a small
profit) a coin you'd purchase, for your own
collection, depriving the 'house' of it's profit.
And, it could be a conflict of interest in some cases.

2. You could easily run out of money very fast...........

As many posts here say, and will be added, you'd
be surprised what some dealers collect, and how
good their collections are. I believe there is less
of this today with some of the newer, younger
dealers, but it's still in-play.

jessecarlk · June 9, 2011 12:34AM

I wouldn't consider myself a dealer in anyway whatsoever. But I've bought and sold coins before because of the fact that I otherwise wouldn't be able to keep or collect them for financial reasons. Most of the coin dealers out there aren't making a ton of money and probably wouldn't be able to have many of the coins/numismatic experiences they've had without selling coins for a profit. Also, as ambro pointed out, it's good to have a dealer who specializes/researches/and even collects the coins that I collect.

ThePennyLady · June 9, 2011 1:55AM

If I were not a dealer and only a collector, I would definitely be a devout customer of someone like me - someone who is passionate about what they are selling, someone who has a really good eye for that series, and a better than average inventory of that series. Unless that dealer kept every great coin they acquire for themselves (I don't think they'd be in business long if they did), I seriously wouldn't have a problem working with a collector dealer.

For me, being a collector and a dealer is not a problem because I don't want to collect EVERY pretty copper coin I see. I have specific collecting requirements and try to stay within those boundaries. Some of you may have even seen when I pick up a new possible "upgrade" for my collection, I have posted the new coin and my old coin here on the forum to get your opinion as to which one I should keep because sometimes it is very difficult to decide since usually both are gorgeous coins. The only duplicate years I have are coins that have something different from the other, like an error, variety, or gorgeous toning.

As a matter of fact, I picked up a gorgeously toned 1862 Indian cent, which is really hard to find since copper nickel coins don't come toned like the bronze cents. It was definitely a coin I would have kept, but since I already have a very pretty 1862 (including a couple varieties), I didn't keep it, and it quickly sold!

johnny9434 · June 9, 2011 4:08AM

<< Sounds like a conflict of interest. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

I'll totally agree with that statment.

garrynot · June 9, 2011 4:27AM

<< 

<< Sounds like a conflict of interest. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

I'll totally agree with that statment. >>

I agree with the first sentence, but as Fred said it is a conflict that affects the dealer's bottom line. There is not much a collector can do about it. Even if the dealer deals in coins and collects stamps, he/ she is affecting the stamp market. Not much that can be done. Eventually, the dealer's collection is dispersed. For example, John Ford, Lawrence Stack, Dave Bowers, to name a few.

mrpotatoheadd · June 9, 2011 5:15AM

<< I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

You're possibly buying coins the dealer doesn't want for his personal collection? So what? As long as you're happy with them, what difference does it make?

Unless you have very deep pockets, patience, lots of time and probably some other things I'm not thinking of right now, you (in general, not directed at any specific poster) should get used to the idea that there will always be someone out there who has "better" coins than you do. Does it diminish your enjoyment of the hobby knowing this? I'd hope not.

Zoins · June 9, 2011 5:17AM

<< 

<< I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

You're possibly buying coins the dealer doesn't want for his personal collection? So what? As long as you're happy with them, what difference does it make?

Unless you have very deep pockets, patience, lots of time and probably some other things I'm not thinking of right now, you (in general, not directed at any specific poster) should get used to the idea that there will always be someone out there who has "better" coins than you do. Does it diminish your enjoyment of the hobby knowing this? I'd hope not. >>

Yes, but some people like to go "head to head" with their competitor, not pay them to give them 2nd class coins

mrpotatoheadd · June 9, 2011 5:20AM

<< Yes, but some people like to go "head to head" with their competitor, not pay them to give them 2nd class coins >>

Well, if you enjoy being frustrated because some of the people you buy coins from might have better coins than you that they're not letting you buy, I won't stand in your way.

Zoins · June 9, 2011 5:27AM

<< 

<< Yes, but some people like to go "head to head" with their competitor, not pay them to give them 2nd class coins >>

Well, if you enjoy being frustrated because some of the people you buy coins from might have better coins than you that they're not letting you buy, I won't stand in your way.

>>

It probably depends on how much you want those coins and whether you're willing to fund someone who continues to accumulate more coins s/he keeps from you

If you and your dealer collect the exact same coins, there could be some conflict of interest and frustration involved; however, if there is a different in focus, then it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

JMW · June 9, 2011 5:50AM

A dealer I work with is a collector of the same series and it works out great, as he trades up or finds duplicates, I also get the opportunity to trade up. No complaints here.

mrpotatoheadd · June 9, 2011 5:51AM

<< If you and your dealer collect the exact same coins, there could be some conflict of interest and frustration involved... >>

On the other hand, you might consider the possibility that the fact a dealer collects the same things as you to be a good thing, as perhaps that would allow you the opportunity to buy coins you would never have been offered in the first place?

Some people won't agree, I'm sure. It's a "glass half full/empty" sort of thing, I guess.

Zoins · June 9, 2011 5:56AM

<< 

<< If you and your dealer collect the exact same coins, there could be some conflict of interest and frustration involved... >>

On the other hand, you might consider the possibility that the fact a dealer collects the same things as you to be a good thing, as perhaps that would allow you the opportunity to buy coins you would never have been offered in the first place? >>

I do think there are things to be gained from working with people with similar interests; however, you need to know when those interests are aligned and when they are not. There's also nothing wrong with working with a dealer on some coins where there is no conflict and competing against him/her at other times when there is. In business, this is called co-opetition.

BillJones · June 9, 2011 7:19AM

<< Sounds like a conflict of interest. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

If the state of preservation is at the level I collect or more likely the level I can afford, I don't mind getting some else's rejects.

LindeDad · June 9, 2011 8:56AM

<< Sounds like a conflict of interest. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind buying those coins that aren't good enough for the dealer's collection. >>

Heck isn't this whole hobby a conflict of interest. Spending dollars to get change and then selling the change hoping to make more dollars.

coinkat · June 9, 2011 10:17AM

don't care

MrEureka · June 9, 2011 11:13AM

If you're competing head-to-head with a collector/dealer, you probably don't want to make him your exclusive source. But he could still easily become one of your best sources.

bolivarshagnasty · June 9, 2011 11:14AM

<< From a specialists point of view, I like a dealer to KNOW the series and 'think' like a collector.

But, Im sure, given two pieces on the market a collecting dealer will always take the PQ piece for their own collection. >>

That is the problem. Your always going to be offered the second most attractive coin the Dealer has had in their inventory. One must look no farther
than Charmy's signature line for evidence of this. If the 1862 Indian had been a killer coin, better than her own, would she have not kept it and sold the
other? It is most certainly Charmy's right to collect what she loves, but as a customer I must always be mindful that I probably will never by that one of
kind stellar early Lincoln from her because of her own collection. JMHO Mel

Bear · June 9, 2011 1:01PM

How about a collector that deals?

astrorat · June 9, 2011 11:10PM

Dealers don't have Divine access to coins. If a collectors wants to "compete" with dealers for coins, then work for better access just like dealers do; go to auctions, set up at shows, open a shop, take out ads, etc. This better access comes at a cost

I know a few dealers who buy nice material for themselves but are still great sources for collector material. Many of their purchases are made in competition with retail customers at shows, auctions, etc.

Zoins · June 10, 2011 2:47AM

<< Dealers don't have Divine access to coins. If a collectors wants to "compete" with dealers for coins, then work for better access just like dealers do; go to auctions, set up at shows, open a shop, take out ads, etc. This better access comes at a cost

I know a few dealers who buy nice material for themselves but are still great sources for collector material. Many of their purchases are made in competition with retail customers at shows, auctions, etc. >>

Are prices at shows and auctions considered retail or wholesale?

Zoins · June 10, 2011 2:50AM

<< If you're competing head-to-head with a collector/dealer, you probably don't want to make him your exclusive source. But he could still easily become one of your best sources. >>

Do you consider a dealer that collects...

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