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Crossing an ethical boundry?
Bobbo50
Posts: 233
Ebay auction
What do you think?
Trying to lure in suckers who may think they're getting a gold bargain?
What do you think?
Trying to lure in suckers who may think they're getting a gold bargain?
0
Comments
Sorry. Posted before you had typed something. I hate when I hit return before I'm ready!
I've seen a lot of the sellers items, usually at pretty high BIN prices. However, like you said, this one has a certain "ickyness" to it that I don't like at all. Granted, they can charge what they want for it, however, I think it needs to be worded differently to prevent confusion. As it's worded, AND priced atm, it seems like they are trying to pull a fast one on someone.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV
<< <i>Check this one out... >>
Unbelievable!
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
You guys are freakin HILARIOUS!!!
The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal, and you STILL think there is something wrong???!!! OMG what is the world coming to?
You just can't fix STUPID!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>It's hard to know you crossed something if it can't be seen or you don't know what it is.
Sorry. Posted before you had typed something. I hate when I hit return before I'm ready!
I've seen a lot of the sellers items, usually at pretty high BIN prices. However, like you said, this one has a certain "ickyness" to it that I don't like at all. Granted, they can charge what they want for it, however, I think it needs to be worded differently to prevent confusion. As it's worded, AND priced atm, it seems like they are trying to pull a fast one on someone. >>
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
No deception that i can see.
Regards, Larry
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<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
You guys are freakin HILARIOUS!!!
The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal, and you STILL think there is something wrong???!!! OMG what is the world coming to?
You just can't fix STUPID!
BankerBob, it would nice if just once you could address the topic at hand without ad hominem attacks.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become. >>
Overpriced? Yes. But not nearly to the extent that you claim. Here are two that I sold recently, for $85 and $107.
I don't think these trade in huge volume, so there may not be much pricing history to go with them. They're certainly worth more than the $10 you claim. And with that, if someone thinks it's gold, they're nuts. He says it's bronze, the grade has RED in it, and the picture is clear (color, design, and slab).
<< <i>Other than the stupidly high price, (which for all we know might just be a typo), I see nothing wrong with the listing.
Russ, NCNE >>
Except that the seller has multiple listings of certified FS medals at similarly high prices.
He also has lower priced ones (around $35@)
I'm not the eBay police and people are free to charge (or pay) whatever they see fit but it just seems like this particular seller is a bit of a gonif.
<< <i>
<< <i>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become. >>
Overpriced? Yes. But not nearly to the extent that you claim. Here are two that I sold recently, for $85 and $107.
I don't think these trade in huge volume, so there may not be much pricing history to go with them. They're certainly worth more than the $10 you claim. And with that, if someone thinks it's gold, they're nuts. He says it's bronze, the grade has RED in it, and the picture is clear (color, design, and slab). >>
IIRC the Mint price for the medals was (and remains) less than $10.
Of course medals that are no longer being struck may have increased in value but hardly to almost $350!
As I've said before, people are free to charge and/or pay whatever they want.
It's a free country and a fool and his money are soon parted.
<< <i>Except that the seller has multiple listings of certified FS medals at similarly high prices. >>
So what? A seller is perfectly within their rights to ask whatever price they choose. There is nothing unethical about doing so in an open market place offering complete transparency.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>IIRC the Mint price for the medals was (and remains) less than $10. >>
And the original issue price of an 1877 IHC was one cent. Your point?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
You guys are freakin HILARIOUS!!!
The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal, and you STILL think there is something wrong???!!! OMG what is the world coming to?
You just can't fix STUPID!
BankerBob, it would nice if just once you could address the topic at hand without ad hominem attacks. >>
Sir, I did address the topic at hand. "The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal,..." so if someone READS the description and buys the item, why then would you call that buyer a sucker??!! Again, willing buyer and willing seller (especially with a fully disclosed transaction as this one is) equals "FREE MARKET" why do some people always want to make a case out of someone's asking price....
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>Other than the stupidly high price, (which for all we know might just be a typo), I see nothing wrong with the listing.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>
<< <i>IIRC the Mint price for the medals was (and remains) less than $10. >>
And the original issue price of an 1877 IHC was one cent. Your point?
Russ, NCNE >>
Excellent point Russ!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>
<< <i>Except that the seller has multiple listings of certified FS medals at similarly high prices. >>
So what? A seller is perfectly within their rights to ask whatever price they choose. There is nothing unethical about doing so in an open market place offering complete transparency.
Russ, NCNE >>
My comment was in response to your comment that the price asked could have been a typo.
You are, of course, correct in saying people are free to ask any price they choose.
However, I can't get past feeling that the seller is trying to dupe an unsuspecting buyer.
You don't think so, and that's fine with me.
Honorable men can disagree.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
You guys are freakin HILARIOUS!!!
The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal, and you STILL think there is something wrong???!!! OMG what is the world coming to?
You just can't fix STUPID!
BankerBob, it would nice if just once you could address the topic at hand without ad hominem attacks. >>
Sir, I did address the topic at hand. "The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal,..." so if someone READS the description and buys the item, why then would you call that buyer a sucker??!! Again, willing buyer and willing seller (especially with a fully disclosed transaction as this one is) equals "FREE MARKET" why do some people always want to make a case out of someone's asking price....
Clearly you have no idea what an ad hominem attack is.
Why don't you Google it?
I'll wait....
....
....
....
There now, got it straight???
Mocking people and calling them stupid most definitely does not address the topic at hand.
You seem like an angry man who likes to lash out online.
I will pray for you.
{edited to correct typos}
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
You guys are freakin HILARIOUS!!!
The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal, and you STILL think there is something wrong???!!! OMG what is the world coming to?
You just can't fix STUPID!
BankerBob, it would nice if just once you could address the topic at hand without ad hominem attacks. >>
Sir, I did address the topic at hand. "The pcgs slab calls the item a medal, the description states it's a bronze medal,..." so if someone READS the description and buys the item, why then would you call that buyer a sucker??!! Again, willing buyer and willing seller (especially with a fully disclosed transaction as this one is) equals "FREE MARKET" why do some people always want to make a case out of someone's asking price....
Clearly you have no idea what an ad hominem attack is.
Why don't you Google it?
I'll wait....
....
....
....
There now, got it straight???
Mocking people and calling them stupid is most definitely not address the topic at hand.
You seem like an angry man who likes to lash out online.
I will pray for you. >>
Why thank you... aparently you weren't RAPTURED either? LOL
I am not an angry man, nor do I need a lesson in etymology, and BTW your OP labels people that may opt to buy an item at a specified price as SUCKERS! That may be an open ended "ad hominem attack."
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What do I think? Well, since you asked,
A seller who has 2300+ feedbacks in the last 12 months with no negs or neutrals, a '5star rating', and 11,000+ transactions selling PCGS high grade moderns probably can get along just fine thank you without a thread on the first page of the U.S. COIN FORUM calling him out for attempting to 'lure' suckers.
Darn sure he appreciates the pub, however. And op, just a note, messing with PCGS submitters from DANA POINT----is usually not a good career move
<< <i>What do you think?
What do I think? Well, since you asked,
A seller who has 2300+ feedbacks in the last 12 months with no negs or neutrals, a '5star rating', and 11,000+ transactions selling PCGS high grade moderns probably can get along just fine thank you without a thread on the first page of the U.S. COIN FORUM calling him out for attempting to 'lure' suckers.
Darn sure he appreciates the pub, however. And op, just a note, messing with PCGS submitters from DANA POINT----is usually not a good career move
Well put streeter...
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<< <i>Why thank you... aparently you weren't RAPTURED either? LOL
I am not an angry man, nor do I need a lesson in etymology, and BTW your OP labels people that may opt to buy an item at a specified price as SUCKERS! That may be an open ended "ad hominem attack." >>
As I suspected, you don't have the slightest idea of ad hominem argument.
You can claim not to be angry but your posts belie that assertion.
But don't worry, I'll still pray for you!
1. His title mentions "First Spouse" but does not say "medal". Yes, the slab's photo has "medal" on it, but you have to look closely at it, and newbies probably are more interested in looking at the actual coin than reading the fine print on the slab.
2. His description mentions "bronze medal" at the top, but then he posts a long quote from the mint's web site about "the First Spouse Gold Coin Program" and "The gold coins issued to accompany any president who served without a spouse will each feature a design emblematic of Liberty on its obverse, as depicted on a United States coin issued during the President’s time in office."
Why does he even mention "gold" when the item he's selling is a bronze medallion? Just saying...
- Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>Why thank you... aparently you weren't RAPTURED either? LOL
I am not an angry man, nor do I need a lesson in etymology, and BTW your OP labels people that may opt to buy an item at a specified price as SUCKERS! That may be an open ended "ad hominem attack." >>
As I suspected, you don't have the slightest idea of ad hominem argument.
You can claim not to be angry but your posts belie that assertion.
But don't worry, I'll still pray for you!
raconteur is an accurate description in your sigline....
Stephen Hawking is my mentor....
Google him if you will....
He will address your "prayers"
...and I love Washington Quarters.... just to abide by the rules!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>Taken as a whole, in my opinion this listing is somewhat deceptive, whether it was intentional or not.
1. His title mentions "First Spouse" but does not say "medal". Yes, the slab's photo has "medal" on it, but you have to look closely at it, and newbies probably are more interested in looking at the actual coin than reading the fine print on the slab.
2. His description mentions "bronze medal" at the top, but then he posts a long quote from the mint's web site about "the First Spouse Gold Coin Program" and "The gold coins issued to accompany any president who served without a spouse will each feature a design emblematic of Liberty on its obverse, as depicted on a United States coin issued during the President’s time in office."
Why does he even mention "gold" when the item he's selling is a bronze medallion? Just saying...
At the top of the auction page it sez:
"
Listed as $10, Eagle 2008 Jackson's Liberty Presidential Spouse B... in category:
* Coins & Paper Money >
* Coins: US >
* Commemorative >
* Modern (1982-Now) >
* 1995-Now
It's NOT a coin by any stretch of the imagination, so why list it in the coin category?
<< <i>
<< <i>It's hard to know you crossed something if it can't be seen or you don't know what it is.
Sorry. Posted before you had typed something. I hate when I hit return before I'm ready!
I've seen a lot of the sellers items, usually at pretty high BIN prices. However, like you said, this one has a certain "ickyness" to it that I don't like at all. Granted, they can charge what they want for it, however, I think it needs to be worded differently to prevent confusion. As it's worded, AND priced atm, it seems like they are trying to pull a fast one on someone. >>
Thanks for calling my opinion lame. I've learned the errors of my way and will never do it again. I bow to your opinions and infinite wisdom as they must always be right.
As they say, opinions are like, well, you know what. Everyone has one.
But that being said, I still believe the seller is trolling. No reason to charge THAT much unless you're looking for a sucker.
The seller has been a member here for a lot longer than you and I have purchased high grade coins from him always with excellent service and fair service.
As mentioned if you feel the price is too high don't bid on it. I do that almost every day on something I see somewhere.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>The seller has been a member here for a lot longer than you... >>
Which is complete irrelevant.
CoinFame is a Moderns Dealer who submits a lot of coins to PCGS and who does a high volume eBay business. I have dealt with him for years and since the First Spouse program brought bronze medals back into the limelight, have considered having some of mine graded. Folks who cannot afford to collect the First Spouse Gold pieces and like the designs will collect the bornze versions instead. These are a part of the First Spouse Gold Program. Calling them anything else is simply incorrect.
As with anything slabbed by PCGS, the higher the grade, the higher the price and an MS69RD is the highest grade available today. Of the 163 graded to date, only 18 have hit that mark with none higher.
PCGS has a First Spouse Bronze Medal registry with 15 participants. Anyone of those folks that does not have an MS69RD just might want to buy this coin and as with anything registry related, big money does get spent.
I don't believe for a second that Seth might be trolling for a sucker or has even approached an ethical line with his listing. It's straight forward in describing it as a bronze medal and he clearly is marketing it to those folks that collect First Spouse Bronze Medals.
If folks don't understand that then there's not much that can be done. But, attacking or even suggesting an impropriety on the part of the seller who is well respected is just wrong.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I find it odd that folks will cry "foul" over something they know nothing about. People do collect these and people do pay some high prices for them.
CoinFame is a Moderns Dealer who submits a lot of coins to PCGS and who does a high volume eBay business. I have dealt with him for years and since the First Spouse program brought bronze medals back into the limelight, have considered having some of mine graded. Folks who cannot afford to collect the First Spouse Gold pieces and like the designs will collect the bornze versions instead. These are a part of the First Spouse Gold Program. Calling them anything else is simply incorrect.
As with anything slabbed by PCGS, the higher the grade, the higher the price and an MS69RD is the highest grade available today. Of the 163 graded to date, only 18 have hit that mark with none higher.
PCGS has a First Spouse Bronze Medal registry with 15 participants. Anyone of those folks that does not have an MS69RD just might want to buy this coin and as with anything registry related, big money does get spent.
I don't believe for a second that Seth might be trolling for a sucker or has even approached an ethical line with his listing. It's straight forward in describing it as a bronze medal and he clearly is marketing it to those folks that collect First Spouse Bronze Medals.
If folks don't understand that then there's not much that can be done. But, attacking or even suggesting an impropriety on the part of the seller who is well respected is just wrong. >>
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I find it odd that folks will cry "foul" over something they know nothing about. People do collect these and people do pay some high prices for them.
CoinFame is a Moderns Dealer who submits a lot of coins to PCGS and who does a high volume eBay business. I have dealt with him for years and since the First Spouse program brought bronze medals back into the limelight, have considered having some of mine graded. Folks who cannot afford to collect the First Spouse Gold pieces and like the designs will collect the bornze versions instead. These are a part of the First Spouse Gold Program. Calling them anything else is simply incorrect.
As with anything slabbed by PCGS, the higher the grade, the higher the price and an MS69RD is the highest grade available today. Of the 163 graded to date, only 18 have hit that mark with none higher.
PCGS has a First Spouse Bronze Medal registry with 15 participants. Anyone of those folks that does not have an MS69RD just might want to buy this coin and as with anything registry related, big money does get spent.
I don't believe for a second that Seth might be trolling for a sucker or has even approached an ethical line with his listing. It's straight forward in describing it as a bronze medal and he clearly is marketing it to those folks that collect First Spouse Bronze Medals.
If folks don't understand that then there's not much that can be done. But, attacking or even suggesting an impropriety on the part of the seller who is well respected is just wrong. >>
Lee, noone will be able to say/put it better than you just did. That was simply perfectly put.
The seller who is the subject, is stand-up, and yes, sometimes asks what might seem to be high prices (what seller is going to low-ball themselves?), but this seller has his ear to the ground with moderns, so perhaps his alleged high asking prices aren't so high (especially when it comes to something Lee brought up...the Registry game). Another thing for the OP to keep in mind....how many coins does the seller send in to make a pop-top or two??? It's alot of work to go through the amount of coins he does, not to mention the amount that's sent off for grading....(and dealing in ultra-moderns isn't for those with a weak stomach). And, to the OP, like it or not, as Lee said, MS69's in this series is NOT an easy grade to attain, for any of the issues.
Like streeter said.....I'm sure the subject seller appreciates the publicity!!! I'd be surprised if he even came to this thread to defend himself, as there is no reason for him to, and most all members know he's straight up.
To the OP.....it's ok to make mistakes early on, as long as you learn to man up and apologize when the time comes.
<< <i>I don't believe for a second that Seth might be trolling for a sucker or has even approached an ethical line with his listing. It's straight forward in describing it as a bronze medal and he clearly is marketing it to those folks that collect First Spouse Bronze Medals. >>
Why list it in the $10 eagle category? Why plaster gold gold gold all over the ad copy? Why then mention the enabling act of the gold coins?
Maybe I'm cynical in my old age but I just don't like the way these things are listed.
YMMV and probably will.
<< <i>His description mentions "bronze medal" at the top, but then he posts a long quote from the mint's web site about "the First Spouse Gold Coin Program" and "The gold coins issued to accompany any president who served without a spouse will each feature a design emblematic of Liberty on its obverse, as depicted on a United States coin issued during the President’s time in office." >>
Did you look at the mint web page that came from? Here's what it says:
"Andrew Jackson’s Liberty First Spouse $10 Gold Coin
President, 1829–1837"
and here's the seller's listing:
"Andrew Jackson’s Liberty First Spouse
President, 1829–1837"
Notice anything missing? Like maybe the $10 Gold Coin part? Apparently, when the seller C&P'd from the mint website, he chose to leave that out. If he really was trying to scam people, why would he have gone to the trouble of doing that?
I suppose, if one tries hard enough, one can find fault with just about anything.
Just saying...
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't believe for a second that Seth might be trolling for a sucker or has even approached an ethical line with his listing. It's straight forward in describing it as a bronze medal and he clearly is marketing it to those folks that collect First Spouse Bronze Medals. >>
Why list it in the $10 eagle category? Why plaster gold gold gold all over the ad copy? Why then mention the enabling act of the gold coins?
Maybe I'm cynical in my old age but I just don't like the way these things are listed.
YMMV and probably will. >>
This is where I find it......
Coins & Paper Money > Coins: US > Commemorative > Modern (1982-Now) > 1995-Now
This is not listed in the $10 Eagle category....it's properly listed in it's proper category. I believe, without going back to it, that the word Gold is only used once, in the mentioning of the enabling act, and that because of this observation, he didn't plaster gold gold gold all over the ad copy?. Mentioning the act enabling the minting of the coins isn't misleading, especially where the seller specifically states the piece is bronze.
<< The seller has been a member here for a lot longer than you... >>
Which is complete irrelevant.
-------------------------
Bon vivant, raconteur, freelance genius and connoisseur of fine coins.
You're new in town,
Wrong answer genius
<< <i>Ebay auction
What do you think?
Trying to lure in suckers who may think they're getting a gold bargain? >>
I am the seller of these medals and no they are not gold or they would weigh over an ounce and would be priced accordingly. They are indeed bronze. If anyone cares to do further research, we have plenty of Bronze medals priced between 29.95 and 49.95 for MS68s and MS67s. Some are uncommon while others are easy to come by if you spend the money to grade them. However, some of these Medals happen to be in very expensive sets only available in the aftermarket for many multiples of their original release price. This means our prices on MS67s and MS68s will have to go up at some point too.
Now, MS69RDs in question? The answer is simple! They are hard to come by in MS69RD as evidenced by low populations. Some a little higher like the 2007s but again the only place I can find to buy a 2007 4medal set is a seller in coinworld that wants $100 for 4 raw coins. If you could find someone to offer you 100 sets for $10000, you might find a MS69RD or two. Yet we are offering all 4 of them for about $300-$400 a coin and I don't think I could honestly replace them for that price.
And last but not least, maybe before anyone starts throwing stones at a seller it would make sense to ask them or at least check their feedback rating on eBay. We have 100% positive with well over 10000 and 5stars. Not 4.9 stars, but 5 stars. This is because we treat our customers right in a fair and equitable manner. Please do the same for me prior to posting threads like this!!
Thank You,
Seth
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction clearly says bronze. I don't think there is anything wrong there. >>
You're OK with a $345/349 opening bid for a $10 medal?
You don't think the seller is trolling for a sucker?
It's guys like him that made eBay the snake pit it's become.
YMMV >>
If you don't like the price then don't bid on the item. Simple. I have nothing to do with this sale nor do I know the seller.
Pretty clear, that is if I understand English!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>And last but not least, maybe before anyone starts throwing stones at a seller it would make sense to ask them or at least check their feedback rating on eBay. We have 100% positive with well over 10000 and 5stars. Not 4.9 stars, but 5 stars. This is because we treat our customers right in a fair and equitable manner. >>
<sarcasm>
So that's what it takes to turn eBay into a snake pit? Sellers with a record like that? I was wondering.
</sarcasm>
To CoinFame... don't let it get you down- you can't please everyone.
Lafayette Grading Set
once 'he' found out that the buyer bought something without reading what he was buying. Not sure what
the big deal is here, where's the beef?
Thanks for dropping by Seth.