Was slave labor ever utilized at any of the southern Branch Mints?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 23, 2011 7:55AM

Either in daily operations or in construction of the facilities? Just curious.

derryb · May 23, 2011 7:59AM

Does GEICO save you money?

sonoranmonsoon · May 23, 2011 8:02AM

That is an interesting question. I do not know the answer, but am looking forward to a knowledgable response. I am thinking of New Orleans. My gut tells me those were probably high paying positions, and not accessable to slave labor, but I don't know.

Zoins · May 23, 2011 8:10AM

Yes, according New Orleans Mint records at the National Archives in this CoinWorld article.

<< A “field trip” taken Jan. 19 by the Heritage Numismatic Auctions cataloging staff in Dallas to a National Archives repository in nearby Fort Worth yielded numerous records from the New Orleans Mint [...]

The July 1856 monthly payroll record, for example, indicates the New Orleans Mint had 81 employees, with four of the employees being slaves.

Three of the slaves were owned by Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard. Beauregard was a graduate from West Point Military Academy in 1838. [...]

Beauregard profited handsomely through the work of his slaves at the New Orleans Mint. The slaves on the payroll were either paid the same or slightly less than free men. >>

MrEureka · May 23, 2011 8:12AM

I'll bet not, only because I doubt the US Government would allow a branch mint to own slaves.

Edited to say that maybe I wouldn't actually bet.

PerryHall · May 23, 2011 8:12AM

I read somewhere that slaves were used to build the U.S. Capitol building so I imagine some of the labor used to build the southern branch mint buildings came from slaves. Don't forget that contractors were used to build these facilities and in all likelihood contactors were used for cleaning/janitorial services at these facilities. It is interesting to note the some of Barack Obama's ancestors were slave owners.

MrEureka · May 23, 2011 8:17AM

From a 2009 Stack's auction:

C.S.A. 1861 Brigadier General G.T. Beauregard "Dime." Silver, 17.7mm, 2.15 grams (33.1 grains). Reeded edge, crude 2.4mm hole at 12:00. Fine-12. Obv. Head l., (B)RG. GEN. C.S.A. - G.T. BEAUREGARD; C.R. below the truncation. Rev. Laurel wreath encloses MANASSAS / 21 JULY / 1861. This enigmatic piece is of the same fabric as the other known Confederate "dime" that portrays the bearded President Jefferson Davis. Examples of the Beauregard and Davis "dimes" were known in the late 1860s and have since appeared in such great name sales as Garrett, Brand, and Ford. There has been endless speculation over their nature and origin. Most known are holed, while others show traces of a loop that would argue use as a pendant or patriotic badge. Some writers have been encouraged to believe that the edge reeding bolsters their hope that the items were intended to serve as coins or tokens. Some efforts have been made to prove a French origin by cataloguers lacking real familiarity with contemporary French medalets. The signature "C.R." is not encountered on the many "street medals" produced in France in 1848-1870, few of which were ever struck in silver, and the comparatively crude die work is by no means typical of French popular medals of that era. The present Beauregard piece shows wear consistent with long years as a pocket piece by someone who venerated the General's memory. It was part of the great Virgil M. Brand Collection and was acquired by that noteworthy Chicago collector from B.H. Collins on Jan. 26, 1905 for the then-significant price of $25.

Louisiana native Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard (1818-1893) graduated West Point and was one of several Southern officers who fought with great distinction in the Mexican War. He had just been appointed Superintendent at West Point when his native state seceded. Beauregard was swiftly appointed Brigadier General of the new Confederate Army, directing the attack on Fort Sumter. This medalet recalls his victory over Union forces at First Manassas (Bull Run), which made him an acclaimed hero throughout the South. Beauregard served throughout "the War of Northern Aggression," and published memoirs in 1891 that involved him in lively disputes with Jefferson Davis and General J.E. Johnston.

Zoins · May 23, 2011 8:44AM

<< Louisiana native Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard (1818-1893) graduated West Point and was one of several Southern officers who fought with great distinction in the Mexican War. He had just been appointed Superintendent at West Point when his native state seceded. Beauregard was swiftly appointed Brigadier General of the new Confederate Army, directing the attack on Fort Sumter. This medalet recalls his victory over Union forces at First Manassas (Bull Run), which made him an acclaimed hero throughout the South. Beauregard served throughout "the War of Northern Aggression," and published memoirs in 1891 that involved him in lively disputes with Jefferson Davis and General J.E. Johnston. >>

Good info on Beauregard who's apparently tied to numismatics in more ways than one.

SanctionII · May 23, 2011 9:06AM

If so, then just wait for someone to "advocate" that all Southern Gold and Southern Silver minted by the mints at New Orleans, Dahlonega and Charlotte be confiscated and used as a source of funding to finance reparations.

TheBigB · May 23, 2011 9:25AM

Interesting article on North Carolina gold in the early 19th century which supplied the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia and later branch mints.

GOLD IN NORTH CAROLINA

7Jaguars · May 23, 2011 12:49PM

Getting derailed off the OP....I believe I read, and this is worthless without citation, that slave labor was used in building the Charlotte mint.

Don't think that means the coins need to be repoed though!

ambro51 · May 23, 2011 12:56PM

Im pretty certain a reference to this was made in one of my books and ill have to look it up, but if memory serves correct, then YES, slave labor was used in southern mints. Ill have to fill in the details tomorrow.

ProofArtworkonCircs · May 23, 2011 2:14PM

How about the Philadelphia mint? Pennsylvania had 3,737 slaves in 1790 and 795 in 1810. Slavery was in the process of abolishment from 1780 - 1847. Yes- 68 years. There were 64 slaves in 1840.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 23, 2011 6:22PM

Without a "union"....

PutTogether · May 23, 2011 6:45PM

The idea about Beauregard contracting out his slaves is an interesting one. I never for a second even considered that transactions like that might have occurred under US slavery. Have a slave one owns, go work a job on the payroll, except the OWNER of the slave keeps the wage. Slavery sub letting............I had no idea that occurred.

Is this confirmed? I always just assumed slaves were only ever on their owners 'payrolls' , and not contracted out for a profit.

PerryHall · May 23, 2011 8:41PM

<< The idea about Beauregard contracting out his slaves is an interesting one. I never for a second even considered that transactions like that might have occurred under US slavery. Have a slave one owns, go work a job on the payroll, except the OWNER of the slave keeps the wage. Slavery sub letting............I had no idea that occurred.

Is this confirmed? I always just assumed slaves were only ever on their owners 'payrolls' , and not contracted out for a profit. >>

Ever hear of slave badges? Many slaves were skilled tradesmen/craftsmen and some southern cities would issue a dog tag like metal disc listing the trade with an issuing serial number. The slave would wear this badge around his neck while doing contract work. Frequently the slave would get to keep part of the salary as an incentive to work hard and do quality work. Many slaves saved their money and were able to buy their freedom. There have been some threads about these slave badges and they bring good money in major auctions. Also, there are many counterfeits out there.

RRich2004 · May 23, 2011 11:02PM

<< Either in daily operations or in construction of the facilities? Just curious. >>

Since Louisiana was a large slave holding state, and the fact it seceded from the Union, the labor needs were fulfilled locally for the branch Mint at New Orleans and slaves were apart of the labor force used in the construction of, as well as general operations at the branch.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 23, 2011 11:13PM

<< 

<< The idea about Beauregard contracting out his slaves is an interesting one. I never for a second even considered that transactions like that might have occurred under US slavery. Have a slave one owns, go work a job on the payroll, except the OWNER of the slave keeps the wage. Slavery sub letting............I had no idea that occurred.

Is this confirmed? I always just assumed slaves were only ever on their owners 'payrolls' , and not contracted out for a profit. >>

Ever hear of slave badges? Many slaves were skilled tradesmen/craftsmen and some southern cities would issue a dog tag like metal disc listing the trade with an issuing serial number. The slave would wear this badge around his neck while doing contract work. Frequently the slave would get to keep part of the salary as an incentive to work hard and do quality work. Many slaves saved their money and were able to buy their freedom. There have been some threads about these slave badges and they bring good money in major auctions. Also, there are many counterfeits out there. >>

Only Charleston issued slave badges, although hiring out of slaves was common practice throughout the slave-holding regions of the nation.

Bobbo50 · May 23, 2011 11:22PM

<< If so, then just wait for someone to "advocate" that all Southern Gold and Southern Silver minted by the mints at New Orleans, Dahlonega and Charlotte be confiscated and used as a source of funding to finance reparations. >>

Those of you who are suffering from guilt by owning Southern gold & silver can send your coins to me and I shall absolve you of all wrongdoing!

PerryHall · May 23, 2011 11:42PM

Don't buy Washington quarters or Jefferson nickels which show slave owners. Also, Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill not only owned slaves but he was an Indian killer. Also, Robert E. Lee on two U.S. commems was a slave owner. Did I miss any others?

ricko · May 23, 2011 11:49PM

Evidence in many books written about the era indicate slave labor was used in many construction projects. Information above seems to confirm the construction of branch mints did so as well. As far as any product being tainted, that is ridiculous. That era is history, we have moved beyond that and learned from it. This talk of reparations is the most ridiculous ploy for 'cashin in' on something that was not of modern doing or responsibility that I have ever seen concocted. Pure stupidity. Cheers, RickO

BillJones · May 23, 2011 11:53PM

I have not studied the history of the New Orleans mint extensively, but I have read a couple of books on the Charlotte and Dahlonega mints. I have no doubt that slave labor had something to do with the construction of those two mints, either directly or in the manufacturing of the building materials that were used to construct them.

As for the operations of the mints themselves, slaves may not have been involved. The Charlotte and Dahlonega mints were far smaller operations than New Orleans and did not require nearly as many people to run them. If slaves were used at all they would have been hired out by their masters; they would not have been government property.

Bobbo50 · May 24, 2011 12:26AM

<< Evidence in many books written about the era indicate slave labor was used in many construction projects. Information above seems to confirm the construction of branch mints did so as well. As far as any product being tainted, that is ridiculous. That era is history, we have moved beyond that and learned from it. This talk of reparations is the most ridiculous ploy for 'cashin in' on something that was not of modern doing or responsibility that I have ever seen concocted. Pure stupidity. Cheers, RickO >>

I agree that the entire concept of reparations is a cheap ploy used by African-American politicians and activists to prey on liberal "white guilt".
The Amerinds are also looking for a government handout for real and imagined wrongdoing over 100 years ago.
As the descendant of Irish immigrants, I demand reparations for the discrimination the Irish faced in this country 150 years ago (remember "No Irish Need Apply"?)

relicsncoins · May 24, 2011 12:52AM

<< 

<< The idea about Beauregard contracting out his slaves is an interesting one. I never for a second even considered that transactions like that might have occurred under US slavery. Have a slave one owns, go work a job on the payroll, except the OWNER of the slave keeps the wage. Slavery sub letting............I had no idea that occurred.

Is this confirmed? I always just assumed slaves were only ever on their owners 'payrolls' , and not contracted out for a profit. >>

Ever hear of slave badges? Many slaves were skilled tradesmen/craftsmen and some southern cities would issue a dog tag like metal disc listing the trade with an issuing serial number. The slave would wear this badge around his neck while doing contract work. Frequently the slave would get to keep part of the salary as an incentive to work hard and do quality work. Many slaves saved their money and were able to buy their freedom. There have been some threads about these slave badges and they bring good money in major auctions. Also, there are many counterfeits out there. >>

Only one city issued them. All know authentic "slave tags" are marked either Charleston or Charleston Neck. Ive seen about 20 or so recovered on various metal detectong forums over the years.

denga · May 24, 2011 1:05AM

Slaves were not used at the Philadelphia Mint though this did occur at times in the
Southern branches.

Slaves in the gold-mining regions were normally allowed to search for gold on their
off days and a fair number purchased their freedom with the gold that was found.

crypto79 · May 24, 2011 1:07AM

<< I demand reparations for the discrimination the Irish faced in this country 150 years ago (remember "No Irish Need Apply"?) >>

Maybe but they were at least free to leave and go look other places. And I suppose you can't make the the correlation between African-American enslavement and the fact that they are still often the most relegated & impoverished demographic in our country. Also many people forget that while slavery "ended" a long time ago it isn't like at that point our population and/or Government provided a level playing field and equity which they were & are constitutionality obligated to do. The date of a semblance of a truly equal application of law if not obedience to it can debated but even then only measured in a handful of years and most certainly not generations and if you use an analogy of a flood, just because you finally have stopped the water from coming in doesn't mean the clean up is done.

To address your point; while every population has seen strife, irreverence and discrimination don't be a fool to think they are all in equal amounts or relevantly comparable as it paints the forum poorly by association.

CaptHenway · May 24, 2011 1:50AM

Slavery was common in ancient Greek and Roman civilizations, and is mentioned in both the Old and New Testaments. It is a historical fact. We have moved on.

7Jaguars · May 24, 2011 2:04AM

Interesting however that there appear to be current fortunes and landholders who profitted by slavery not too much over 100 years ago. That makes it a lot less removed than that in ancient times.

PerryHall · May 24, 2011 2:18AM

<< Interesting however that there appear to be current fortunes and landholders who profitted by slavery not too much over 100 years ago. That makes it a lot less removed than that in ancient times. >>

Slavery ended 146 years ago in this country after the conclusion of the Civil War. I fully support reparations for all former slaves. Their ancestors will have to settle for welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, etc.

kiyote · May 24, 2011 2:37AM

<< Don't buy Washington quarters or Jefferson nickels which show slave owners. Also, Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill not only owned slaves but he was an Indian killer. Also, Robert E. Lee on two U.S. commems was a slave owner. Did I miss any others? >>

William Henry Harrison-- there's a special place in Hell for that guy. He eloped with the daughter of a judge after he refused to allow William H to marry her. He did only last a month in office, most of that time spent wheezing.

STONE · May 24, 2011 2:40AM

<< 

<< Interesting however that there appear to be current fortunes and landholders who profitted by slavery not too much over 100 years ago. That makes it a lot less removed than that in ancient times. >>

Slavery ended 146 years ago in this country after the conclusion of the Civil War. I fully support reparations for all former slaves. Their ancestors will have to settle for welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, etc. >>

Not true at all - but most people do not know this. Some Native American groups owned African American (and other Native American) slaves well into the end of the 19th century. These tribes were on the central plains west of the Mississippi River.

Just thought I could add this to the conversation

STONE · May 24, 2011 2:46AM

I'm sure slavery was still taking place in some areas of the south (heavily rural locations) after the Civil War.

I also recall slavery still taking place in Texas for about a decade after the Civil War - I will need to find this reference

crypto79 · May 24, 2011 2:47AM

<< 

Slavery ended 146 years ago in this country after the conclusion of the Civil War. I fully support reparations for all former slaves. Their ancestors will have to settle for welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, etc. >>

That is a sad comment and I thought you were better then that Perry Hall.

SaorAlba · May 24, 2011 3:42AM

This thread is going into the gutter real soon - politics, states rights, affirmative action all will be the subject. Too bad we cannot have a viable discussion without someone throwing out ridiculous comments.

TPRC · May 24, 2011 3:49AM

<< Does GEICO save you money? >>

CaptHenway · May 24, 2011 4:02AM

<< 

<< Interesting however that there appear to be current fortunes and landholders who profitted by slavery not too much over 100 years ago. That makes it a lot less removed than that in ancient times. >>

Slavery ended 146 years ago in this country after the conclusion of the Civil War. I fully support reparations for all former slaves. Their ancestors will have to settle for welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, etc. >>

Ancestors?

crypto79 · May 24, 2011 4:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< Interesting however that there appear to be current fortunes and landholders who profitted by slavery not too much over 100 years ago. That makes it a lot less removed than that in ancient times. >>

Slavery ended 146 years ago in this country after the conclusion of the Civil War. I fully support reparations for all former slaves. Their ancestors will have to settle for welfare, food stamps, affirmative action, etc. >>

Ancestors? >>

He meant descendants but that isn't close to the most ignorant part of that sentence?

yellowkid · May 24, 2011 4:15AM

I don't think there were any parts of Southern life that didn't use slaves, and large sections of Northern life were complicit. I've been a student of history for my entire life and I've never been able to get my head around the fact that our recent ancestors thought that it was natural to "own" people.

And Stone is correct, there was de facto slavery until the mid 20th century.

SanctionII · May 24, 2011 4:18AM

Across the globe slavery exists in many, many forms today.

Slave labor.

Enslavement of children.

Enslavement of women.

Enslavement of men.

Bigger and bigger government at all levels [local, state, national, international] intruding into the lives of people and micromanaging same from cradle to grave.

Bigger and bigger private business interests intruding into the lives of people.

In the USA slavery was a part of the fabric of society, both before and after 7-4-1776 and the Declaration Of Independence. It was and is horrible, yet it is a part of our history. From the labor of slaves came much benefit and wealth. Branch mints and other buildings/works of improvements were constructed and operated by slave labor. The formal ending of slavery during the Civil War did not make things all better. Negative effects of slavery continued. However, me thinks that much of the dispair and hopelessness in the lower levels of today's society stems not from the lingering effects of slavery in the USA. Instead it stems from the "dependency on government" mindset that many have.

yellowkid · May 24, 2011 4:22AM

<< Across the globe slavery exists in many, many forms today.

Slave labor.

Enslavement of children.

Enslavement of women.

Enslavement of men.

Bigger and bigger government at all levels [local, state, national, international] intruding into the lives of people and micromanaging same from cradle to grave.

Bigger and bigger private business interests intruding into the lives of people.

In the USA slavery was a part of the fabric of society, both before and after 7-4-1776 and the Declaration Of Independence. It was and is horrible, yet it is a part of our history. From the labor of slaves came much benefit and wealth. Branch mints and other buildings/works of improvements were constructed and operated by slave labor. The formal ending of slavery during the Civil War did not make things all better. Negative effects of slavery continued. However, me thinks that much of the dispair and hopelessness in the lower levels of today's society stems not from the lingering effects of slavery in the USA. Instead it stems from the "dependency on government" mindset that many have. >>

I would agree with the first part of your statement, but I have to take issue with the last. Poverty and a sense of despondence certainly precluded the advent of the New Deal, and is perpetuated in large part by ignorance.

7Jaguars · May 24, 2011 5:07AM

"Juneteenth" is the holiday celebrated in Texas as the day that liberation of slaves was recognized on 19th June, 1865.

I have spoken with many people in Virginia and there were parts not far from Spotsylvania where slavery continued on until the last decade of the 19th Century - the black residents there by and large did not read and simply were unaware of the results of the Civil War and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation...

I think the discussion is getting a bit derailed from the OT however where simply the question was posed as to whether slave labor was used at United States mints; think we answered that one.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 24, 2011 5:43AM

<< I have spoken with many people in Virginia and there were parts not far from Spotsylvania where slavery continued on until the last decade of the 19th Century - the black residents there by and large did not read and simply were unaware of the results of the Civil War and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation... >>

I'd be interested to hear more about this. I can't imagine any large scale slave operations were functioning in public view, since the post-CW South adopted a largely revisionist policy towards slavery (de jure, at least) which upheld the prejudice associated with black bondage, yet condemned the actual practice. Plus, although most slaves were completely illiterate, distribution of news amongst slave communities was remarkably quick and effective. During the Civil War, slaves often knew about the results of important battles before their masters did.

Bobbo50 · May 24, 2011 5:46AM

<< Plus, although most slaves were completely illiterate, distribution of news amongst slave communities was remarkably quick and effective. During the Civil War, slaves often knew about the results of important battles before their masters did. >>

I'd like to see some verification for that last assertion.

crypto79 · May 24, 2011 6:06AM

<< 

<< Plus, although most slaves were completely illiterate, distribution of news amongst slave communities was remarkably quick and effective. During the Civil War, slaves often knew about the results of important battles before their masters did. >>

I'd like to see some verification for that last assertion. >>

I'd like to see some verification for your last assertion of " discrimination the Irish faced in this country 150 years ago (remember "No Irish Need Apply"?) " , or are you the only one who gets to quote stuff based off of 2nd hand hearsay ramblings of people who don't know what they are talking about?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 24, 2011 6:15AM

<< 

<< Plus, although most slaves were completely illiterate, distribution of news amongst slave communities was remarkably quick and effective. During the Civil War, slaves often knew about the results of important battles before their masters did. >>

I'd like to see some verification for that last assertion. >>

"In the hills of western Virginia, according to Booker T. Washington, slaves not only "watched... every success of the Federal armies and every defeat of the Confederate forces... with the keenest and most intense interest," but also often "got knowledge of the results of great battles before the white people," owing to clever machinations of the bondman assigned to pick up the mail. A former slave who lived in a remote section of east-central Texas similarly explained that "during the times just like today nearly everybody knows what going on" and that slaves using passes or slipping "out of dark" helped "news travel pretty fast.""

Just a snippet... there's a lot more on this. See page 87 of A Nation Under Our Feet, Steven Hahn, Harvard University Press, 2003.

Bobbo50 · May 24, 2011 6:29AM

Thanks for pointing out a facet of Civil War history previously unknown to me.

Bobbo50 · May 24, 2011 6:30AM

<< 

<< 

<< Plus, although most slaves were completely illiterate, distribution of news amongst slave communities was remarkably quick and effective. During the Civil War, slaves often knew about the results of important battles before their masters did. >>

I'd like to see some verification for that last assertion. >>

I'd like to see some verification for your last assertion of " discrimination the Irish faced in this country 150 years ago (remember "No Irish Need Apply"?) " , or are you the only one who gets to quote stuff based off of 2nd hand hearsay ramblings of people who don't know what they are talking about? >>

Why are you so angry over a simple question?

kiyote · May 24, 2011 9:10AM

GoldenEye, it's great to see younger folks interested in history-- great post!

Mark · May 24, 2011 9:10AM

Too bad this thread has been seriously derailed. I hope that someone can seriously provide a reference to answer the OP's question rather than talk about a bunch of relatively OT thoughts.

Once again, I wish RWB was still here. My bet is that he knows the answer to the original question.

kaz · May 24, 2011 10:17AM

It's inconceivable to me that the Southern mints were not constructed using slave labor; the hiring out of slaves was a very lucrative enterprise for slave owners. Let's also not forget that there were some slaves who had purchased their freedom who were skilled at crafts and probably contributed as well. It would be great to see some more research on this subject.

Aegis3 · May 24, 2011 11:23AM

<< Across the globe slavery exists in many, many forms today.

Slave labor.

Enslavement of children.

Enslavement of women.

Enslavement of men.

Bigger and bigger government at all levels [local, state, national, international] intruding into the lives of people and micromanaging same from cradle to grave.

Bigger and bigger private business interests intruding into the lives of people.

In the USA slavery was a part of the fabric of society, both before and after 7-4-1776 and the Declaration Of Independence. It was and is horrible, yet it is a part of our history. From the labor of slaves came much benefit and wealth. Branch mints and other buildings/works of improvements were constructed and operated by slave labor. The formal ending of slavery during the Civil War did not make things all better. Negative effects of slavery continued. However, me thinks that much of the dispair and hopelessness in the lower levels of today's society stems not from the lingering effects of slavery in the USA. Instead it stems from the "dependency on government" mindset that many have. >>

Wow

(at some of the comparisons)

Was slave labor ever utilized at any of the southern Branch Mints?

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