Worried about red/brown/toning spots on 2006 gold Buffalos

rimshaker · May 21, 2011 7:58AM

Got several 2006 Buffalos directly from the Mint. Had them graded, slabbed and put them away.

Now several years later i happen to look at them and most have awful looking red/brown areas.

Read enough about it online to know it's somewhat normal... however...

How will this impact the premium put on graded coins?? They just look ugly now.

I even got 2 graded PR70DCAM. One has spots, the other is still literally perfect.... very confusing.

Hard to say whether these spots are inherent from the mint, or due to external handling by having them graded.

BillJones · May 21, 2011 8:02AM

Spots have been reported on these coins that are still in the mint package so I'd say the spots are the fault of the mint, not the TPG. As for market value, the spots can't be good. Less than perfect eye appeal on an PR-70 Cam would be a big negative for me. I'd pass out right knowing that there are better ones out there.

adamlaneus · May 21, 2011 8:02AM

<< Got several 2006 Buffalos directly from the Mint. Had them graded, slabbed and put them away.

Now several years later i happen to look at them and most have awful looking red/brown areas.

Read enough about it online to know it's somewhat normal... however...

How will this impact the premium put on graded coins?? They just look ugly now.

I even got 2 graded PR70DCAM. One has spots, the other is still literally perfect.... very confusing.

Hard to say whether these spots are inherent from the mint, or due to external handling by having them graded. >>

I believe they are inherent from the mint, as i've seen the spots on coins that have stayed in mint packaging.

I think they are ugly. But I also have heard that the spots can be removed by someone who knows what they are doing.

I think they affect the market price for the coin, as I would not purchase one with spots. Fickle and shallow I am; like the spots.

TheBigB · May 21, 2011 8:31AM

Those spots are as made by the mint, that is why I am done with their gold products.

US Mint gold = low quality at a high price.

In my neck of the woods, these proof Buffalos are one step above bullion (+ $60.00) with all paperwork.

CCC2010 · May 21, 2011 10:05AM

If i am paying a premium for the "perfect" 70 grade i want them to be flawless. Not one that contracted chickenpox...so no matter what label is slapped on top and i see those spots. I will definitely pass.

mrpotatoheadd · May 21, 2011 10:08AM

"MS/PR-70 - As struck, with full strike."

Description is taken from this website. It doesn't say either "perfect" or "flawless" in the description for the grade.

FWIW...

CCC2010 · May 21, 2011 10:30AM

It did not say MS70/PF70 with an extra helping of "spots" either...

JamesM · May 21, 2011 10:33AM

send them in for review.

PerryHall · May 21, 2011 10:42AM

Does anyone rinse their gold with acetone to prevent these spots? If so, does it work?

TheBigB · May 21, 2011 11:00AM

<< Does anyone rinse their gold with acetone to prevent these spots? If so, does it work? >>

My opinion is that acetone would be totally ineffective on these spots. This is a result of a chemical reaction like tarnish, based on a report I have from Chinese scientists.

PerryHall · May 21, 2011 11:13AM

<< 

<< Does anyone rinse their gold with acetone to prevent these spots? If so, does it work? >>

My opinion is that acetone would be totally ineffective on these spots. This is a result of a chemical reaction like tarnish, based on a report I have from Chinese scientists. >>

I wasn't talking about removing spots. Rather, I was asking about preventing the spots from occurring in the first place. I think there is something on the surfaces of these coins causing the spotting. These coins are supposed to be almost pure 9999 fine gold so some foreign material on the surface of these coins from the machinery (lubricating oil, hydraulic fluid, or ???) or the handling by mint employees may be the culprit and it stands to reason that cleaning the foreign matter from the coin surfaces should prevent the spotting.

TheBigB · May 21, 2011 11:38AM

<< I wasn't talking about removing spots. Rather, I was asking about preventing the spots from occurring in the first place. I think there is something on the surfaces of these coins causing the spotting. These coins are supposed to be almost pure 9999 fine gold so some foreign material on the surface of these coins from the machinery (lubricating oil, hydraulic fluid, or ???) or the handling by mint employees may be the culprit and it stands to reason that cleaning the foreign matter from the coin surfaces should prevent the spotting. >>

Sorry I was not more clear, the answer is no. The foreign material is likely a silver sulfide compound resulting from cross-contamination at some point of the production process (i.e., tooling used for both silver and gold). It is bonded to the metal so to speak. You would need a more aggressive chemical dip.

smirkingchamp · May 21, 2011 11:41AM

Are there countries that have great reputations for their gold? I've had the spotting issue on a US Mint gold coin.

rimshaker · May 21, 2011 11:43AM

Thanks for the responses.

Needless to say im p!ssed! With all this discoloring, these are simply raw coins at near market price.

Ended up just wasting money getting them graded

Does PCGS offer some kind of "cleaning service" or best if i just leave them alone?

I'm fairly certain only coin shops and people familiar with spotting will even consider purchasing them.

notwilight · May 21, 2011 12:35PM

The spots are toning. Gold buffalos don't tone very attractively. They can be conserved. --jerry

PerryHall · May 21, 2011 10:46PM

<< The spots are toning. Gold buffalos don't tone very attractively. They can be conserved. --jerry >>

How can they be conserved? Also, 9999 fine gold shouldn't tone. Those spots are from contamination on the coin's surface.

ricko · May 21, 2011 11:29PM

An acetone bath on ASE's when done upon receipt from the mint, will prevent milk spots. However, I have no idea about the spots on the gold Buffalo's.. from the description (and since they are .9999 gold), I would hazard a guess that it is residues remaining from either the striking process or post striking bath (if there is one). Is there a PCGS review program for these slabbed coins? Cheers, RickO

drfish · May 22, 2011 8:52AM

You can send the coin to Pcgs for spot review and they'll either fix the coin or downgrade it and pay you the difference.You'd be out shipping both ways -unlees Pcgs will be at a show you plan on attending then its just one way . I've had them despot a 08w Buffalo $50 pr70 and a 07w $50 ms70 eagle

TheBigB · May 22, 2011 8:55AM

<< Also, 9999 fine gold shouldn't tone. Those spots are from contamination on the coin's surface. >>

In essence it is toning, a silver compound has bonded to the coin's surface from contamination during manufacture.

adamlaneus · May 22, 2011 8:58AM

<< 

<< The spots are toning. Gold buffalos don't tone very attractively. They can be conserved. --jerry >>

How can they be conserved? Also, 9999 fine gold shouldn't tone. Those spots are from contamination on the coin's surface. >>

There are acids that will NOT attack gold but will attack other metals.
A professional would know how to do it right. Shame that it even has to be done.

Kove · May 22, 2011 10:20AM

<< "MS/PR-70 - As struck, with full strike."

Description is taken from this website. It doesn't say either "perfect" or "flawless" in the description for the grade.

FWIW... >>

Official ANA Grading Standards, 6th Edition: "MS-70: The perfect coin."

Worried about red/brown/toning spots on 2006 gold Buffalos

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