How long until a Billionaire buys into the market?
mr3holesinone
Posts: 444
Any thoughts on what would happen should a billionaire decide to diversify his holdings into a coin portfolio? Bill Gates or Michael Dell could easily put a measly $100 million into the coin market and put together an awesome collection.
Any ideas on what would happen to the remaining coins available on the market? Would there be a selling frenzy to get the money while you can? Or maybe a buying frenzy to get the coins before "he" does?
Anyone think there's a possibility of this ever happening or that it could be happening right now?
Wouldn't this be a dealer's dream come true:
Hey buddy, how much you want for ALL your certified mint state and proof 60 or better coins in
your inventory?
Any ideas on what would happen to the remaining coins available on the market? Would there be a selling frenzy to get the money while you can? Or maybe a buying frenzy to get the coins before "he" does?
Anyone think there's a possibility of this ever happening or that it could be happening right now?
Wouldn't this be a dealer's dream come true:
Hey buddy, how much you want for ALL your certified mint state and proof 60 or better coins in
your inventory?
Holes-in-One
1. 7-17-81 Warrenton GC Driver 310 yards 7th Hole (Par 4)
2. 5-22-99 Warrenton GC 6 iron 189 yards 10th Hole
3. 7-23-99 Oak Meadow CC 5 iron 180 yards 17th Hole
4. 9-19-99 Country Lake GC 6 iron 164 yards 15th Hole
5. 8-30-09 Country Lake GC Driver 258 yards 17th Hole (Par 4)
Collector of Barber Halves, Commems, MS64FBL Frankies, Full Step Jeffersons & Mint state Washington Quarters
1. 7-17-81 Warrenton GC Driver 310 yards 7th Hole (Par 4)
2. 5-22-99 Warrenton GC 6 iron 189 yards 10th Hole
3. 7-23-99 Oak Meadow CC 5 iron 180 yards 17th Hole
4. 9-19-99 Country Lake GC 6 iron 164 yards 15th Hole
5. 8-30-09 Country Lake GC Driver 258 yards 17th Hole (Par 4)
Collector of Barber Halves, Commems, MS64FBL Frankies, Full Step Jeffersons & Mint state Washington Quarters
0
Comments
If you buy a few hundred milliond dollars worth of something in a relatively thinly traded market like coins, you're going to drive prices up before you get them all. And when you go to sell, you're going to drive prices down. It'd be tricky to do without losing a few million here or there.
the billionaire is Russ and he's after all the AH '64 proof JFKs
Boy, I'm getting the feeling that there is pressure brewing to do it again. The hype machine is starting to hum. The sweat is begining to form on the brow. People feeling a little nervous that they might get left behind when it breaks.... I'm just wondering what it's going to look like this time, see what new twist is added. Stocks are down! Tangibile assets are the place to be! The State quarters have brought new collectors! Coins have been way too undervalued for too long!
Heck, some of it might even be true.
It will be interesting to see when the boom hits again, how long, how high, and how intense it gets. It will happen, too. Maybe not this month, this year or even next year. But, it's coming.
Camelot
<< <i>the billionaire is Russ >>
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Camelot
Thank goodness the big boys are buying quietly. I would not want it any other way. To start buying with a lot of noise would create an unsustainable market price surge which had hurt the coin market in the past.
The buying had begun quietly back in 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 when there was so much quality coins available it was sickening. and yet so wonderful when in the market as a buyer and collector.
In my view, those were the glory days of the coin hobby.
My opinion differs from yours, why are:
"Tangible assets the place to be!" ???
Typically, tangible assets like coins tend to rise in price during inflationary times coupled with high interest rates, low unemployment, and high precious metals and energy prices Also during times when people have an excess of disposable income. The EXACT opposite is true right now.............interest rates are at 30 yr. lows, many people now have either been laid off or fired due to the recent recession and company downsizing, and have virtually no disposable income, many people have also lost their entire nestegg or close to it and are not investing in anything right now, and precious metal prices are not all that far off their 20+ yr. lows.
Regarding your statement:
"coins have been way too undervalued for too long"
Why????????? The term 'rare coins' is now almost an oxymoron, there are literally 10s of millions of 'rare coins' out there and in 99% of instances, they are not rare at all, not even scarce. For the extreme minority of coins that are truly scarce or rare, prices have recently gone up partly due to the new found registry craze, partly due to their infrequent availability, and also partly due to industry hype IMO. For the vast majority of collectable coins however, they are always readily available, exist in enormous quantities, and are still valued between 10 to 20 cents on the dollar compared to 1989 prices in the case of most generic issues. It is rather humorous to hear people say how 'hot' the coin market is right now when only a VERY FEW select coins trade at high prices, while the vast majority of coins are either at or very near their all time lows, which represent the real bread and butter of the whole coin market.
The chances that we will see another huge runup in the coin market overall anytime in the near future (like the late 80s) or that a bull market is coming, is very slim IMO and may not happen for a very long time, perhaps even generations. The fact that a tiny minority of rare, or low pop., or superbly toned coins selling for high prices at auction and 'making the news' does not make a hot market by any means regardless of the hype......that would be like saying the stock market is currently 'hot' because a few stocks have shot up recently while 98% of the market is horrible.
Another reason that a very few select certified coins bring very high prices recently IMO is also due to the fact that so many coins have been cracked out and resubmitted so many times to the various services over the past 10-12 yrs., that more and more coins become 'maxxed out' in grade making truly PQ coins rarer and rarer as each year passes, so when a truly undergraded coin does come out of hiding and sells for an astronomical premium, it gives the false impression of rising prices or a hot market when that is not the case.
Dragon
But if they don't repeal the estate taxes permanently I might not be able to liquidate from my coins as I would thenm lose the potential for stepping up the basis of the coins which I am afraid they are doing away with anyway by 2009 which is a scary thought!.
Of course, it might play heck with you more expensive coin collectors.
Does my above gusess at price range for the majority of collectors seem reasonable?
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
You have mis-read the intent of my post. When I said "coins have been way too undervalued for too long" and "Tangible assets are the place to be!" I was using them as phrases we will probably hear when a coin boom starts again and people try to hype the market.
These are not my opinions. They are thrown out as examples of the kind of things we have heard before when markets go into a fever stage.
My post was more about speculation and hype, and what role it plays in a boom/fever market. My original point was directed at the kind of thinking like "What if a Bill Gates came into the market and started buying things up." My point being that is the same kind of speculation-- just wearing a different hat-- that helped fuel the coin market in 89-90. Those statements you quoted me on are not my opinions. They were meant merely as examples of what we will probably hear.
You mean I wrote that whole response for nothing??? Oh well.......LOLOLOL!!
Dragon
It's okay. It wasn't for nothing. You wrote it well. I went back and re-read it pretending that I had really meant those things, and from that perspective it was a great post!
Camelot
Edited to put in the sound of a snare drum roll and a crash cymbol.
When will my 1860-O dime (PCGS VG-10) rise in value?
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
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the scary part is they already OWN the gold and its still not rising. The problem is there is too much "paper gold" ownership. Buying and selling of gold that doesn't exist.
4 more years to go, Oreville.
A wiseass might now ask "How long before a billionaire decides to dump his coins?" Not me though. Never even crossed my mind.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I have no idea how long his coins will be off the market but from everything I have read about him, my hunch is that his main collection will be off the market for quite awhile.
My collection would be of no interest to a billionaire... so I will go merrily on my way
Cheers, RickO
They are quietly loading up on gold. I sometimes wonder if they holding it down. They may be preparing for depression / doomsday once global warming / sea level changes really hit. They playing the end game.
I doubt many of them care a flip for numismatic coins and consider them losers in reviewing their history as the bids keep going down. Many still way in tank vs 89 crash. Everybody knows It’s a foregone conclusion that finished off any Wall Street coin investment.
If I am storing gold in underground bunker in mountains not planning on any shows / collectors being around when it hits.
There would be no love in it and certainly they'd have a third-party pick the coins.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Not to mention that after I hit the mega-millions tomorrow night you all will find out.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Dont we have it both ways now? Dumping and accumulating? The two that jump to mind are Pogue and Hanson, there are others. Not sure exactly who is a Billionaire and who is a mere millionaire.
Coins are for the common folk.
Once you get to the billionaire level you collect Governments...
U.S. Type Set
Trust me, there will never be a Wall Steet run on coins ever again. Did people start re-acquiring tulips after the crash? No. Some things are once in a lifetime. So many types of assets (real and imaginary) are available to investors these days that were not readily available years ago...REITS of every imaginable type and specialty, bond funds, ETFs, bitcoin, global stocks. If anything, fine art would be the tangible asset / collectible most likely to be run in a fund or subject to mass investment. The fine art market is much more liquid and mature. Coins are for collecting or perhaps some level of family wealth planning (and unlikely at that).
He who knows he has enough is rich.
4 years from now, how about a thread titled "20 Years Ago Today"?
(Gives me Temporal Whiplash just thinking about it.)
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Now only if they could get the governments to mint coins to request like in the 1800s!
I think Hanson answered this question!
Would be fun to see several, not just from the USA either , let themselves be known and compete
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Don't forget gemstones.
Hansen has impacted collectors far beyond just the million dollar type coins. There are many coins that are from $7500 price and up that Hansen has impacted by bidding on the best coin available. Here is an example. A liberty quarter eagle 1876-S PCGS 63 CAC. In July , 2018 this coin was auctioned by legend. At the time there were 6 PCGS coins of this date graded at 63 with none higher (since then there is a PCGS 64 graded---I am almost certain it is not the PCGS 63 CAC). This grade and for this date generally went for around $8000. Now this coin was the only CAC so that will increase the price. The coin went for $21,738. It is now in Hansen's registry set. I doubt he bought it to upgrade it, he bought it because he wanted a great coin. This is an example of how a collector who might spend 10k to 15k on a coin was directly impacted by Hansen.