How can you prove that a buyer has received the content of a package? PayPal dispute
Ciccio
Posts: 1,405 ✭
I sold a lot consisting in few Lincoln products a while back (Lincoln proof dollar, few rolls and a couple of Mint sets) for a BIN of $245.
I packed all the items myself in 5 small flat rate boxes inside a medium flat rate box. I added also some extra empty tubes as a gift.
The buyer received the shipment on May 2nd.
Today, he opened a dispute for "item not as described" and stating that a refund of $100 will be satisfactory. (!)
He didn't contact me and he didn't say what was missing.
I assume the package arrived intact.
Did any of you have had any similar experience? How should I proceed?
Of course I cannot prove what was inside the box.
Here below are the options given by PayPal. (of course all in buyer's favor)
- Issue the buyer a refund for the disputed amount of $245.00 USD.
- The buyer can keep the item(s).Issue the buyer a refund for the disputed amount of $245.00 USD.The buyer must return the item(s).
- Offer the buyer a partial refund in an attempt to close this claim.(The buyer indicated that a refund of $100.00 USD would be satisfactory.)
- Provide proof that the buyer has already been refunded.
- Disagree with claim. I would like to provide additional information.
I packed all the items myself in 5 small flat rate boxes inside a medium flat rate box. I added also some extra empty tubes as a gift.
The buyer received the shipment on May 2nd.
Today, he opened a dispute for "item not as described" and stating that a refund of $100 will be satisfactory. (!)
He didn't contact me and he didn't say what was missing.
I assume the package arrived intact.
Did any of you have had any similar experience? How should I proceed?
Of course I cannot prove what was inside the box.
Here below are the options given by PayPal. (of course all in buyer's favor)
- Issue the buyer a refund for the disputed amount of $245.00 USD.
- The buyer can keep the item(s).Issue the buyer a refund for the disputed amount of $245.00 USD.The buyer must return the item(s).
- Offer the buyer a partial refund in an attempt to close this claim.(The buyer indicated that a refund of $100.00 USD would be satisfactory.)
- Provide proof that the buyer has already been refunded.
- Disagree with claim. I would like to provide additional information.
0
Comments
<< <i>Sounds like the buyer has learned how to play the system and you're out $100!
Yep , unfortunately have to agree.That will be the bottem line here.Must be the season of the scammer , i just got turned over myself for the first time on the bay,ive been wronged but never flat out ripped off like this time around.
<< <i>i would ask exactly what was "not as described". if he names all the contents, you have no problem. have him return all for a full refund. see what his reasons are for the dispute before you proceed any further. >>
Tell him you intentionally sent him low grade and damaged items (with a lot of the items missing) because you knew he was stupid and wouldn't notice. Tell him you didn't think he would actually be stupid enough to settle for only a $100 refund - and be stuck with the rest of the junk at an inflated price. Tell him he really made your day!
Here is the only longshot idea I have that might help:
Are flat rate boxes weighed at any time during transit? If so, you may be able to get the recorded weight of the sent package, and compare it to the package you receive from the buyer after telling him to return "everything" for a full refund. If the weight discrepancy is large enough, perhaps Paypal will be more likely to view the buyer as dishonest and take your side.
If that's not possible, I'd probably just ask that he return "everything" for a full refund. Look over the stuff he sends back and if you believe anything to be "damaged", maybe Paypal will let you get off with only issuing a partial refund. After all, the buyer is only sending back part of what you sent him. Fight fire with fire. Then give him the mandatory "positive" feedback with: * NEG * DISHONEST THIEF * in the comments!
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I missed his his comment to the dispute.
Buyer:
This was supposed to be two mint sets of coins and I only received one set. One set is 10 rolls so I was suppoed to get 20 but only received 10. Everything else is there, just missing the 10 rolls. I would accept a partial refund of $100.00 to keep what I was sent.
This is my auction
What do you think? I am replying that if he want to send everything back I will refund the whole amount. (and he can keep the free tubes).
<< <i>Pls Let us know his Handle so we can block this Scam Artist! >>
Yes..please...my "dead beat scammer" list is hungry...
Also: JamesMurray...we need yours also....
<< <i>
<< <i>Pls Let us know his Handle so we can block this Scam Artist! >>
Yes..please...my "dead beat scammer" list is hungry...
Also: JamesMurray...we need yours also....
I'll add this person in just a few days as i'm in dispute currently,i'll be more than happy to do so.I'll also provide full details of the incident at the time , it's a sickener.
<< <i>Update:
I missed his his comment to the dispute.
Buyer:
This was supposed to be two mint sets of coins and I only received one set. One set is 10 rolls so I was suppoed to get 20 but only received 10. Everything else is there, just missing the 10 rolls. I would accept a partial refund of $100.00 to keep what I was sent.
This is my auction
What do you think? I am replying that if he want to send everything back I will refund the whole amount. (and he can keep the free tubes). >>
From the auction I would have expected to receive:
- Lincoln silver proof dollar
- a total of 10 rolls of coins (as pictured)
- two 4-coin lincoln proof sets
And the buyer thought he was getting 20 rolls? Sounds like he misunderstood that the two "sets" he was getting were the 4 coin proof sets, not two sets of 10 rolls of coins.
I'd politely clear this up with him/paypal. Perhaps it was just an oversight on his part that he saw "2 sets" and assumed it was for 2x10 rolls of coins, not 1x10 rolls of coins and two 4-coin sets.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Honest stupidity on part of buyer. Send him a message to re-read the description and explain it to him. Cut and paste a copy in your paypal dispute. Of course he's going to be upset with himself because he thought he was buying twice the rolls. If he sees the light ask him to close the dispute. If he doesn't see the light call paypal to make sure your cut and paste to them is considered in the dispute.
If buyer dosn't see the light then out him, I block stupid buyers as well as dishonest ones.
I once had a guy try to rip me off with a SNAD claiming the shipment did not include all of the items won. I replied for him to return the items. When he returned part of what I sent him I informed paypal that I didn't get back everything that he said he did receive. Two can play that game. He dropped the dispute.
PS: Keep in mind some of the adivce you have thus far received is from those who only read the OP and jump right into giving advice without reading the whole thread.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>I am replying that if he want to send everything back I will refund the whole amount. (and he can keep the free tubes) >>
Sounds more than reasonable to me.
Good luck!
<< <i>Judge derry finds for the seller.
Honest stupidity on part of buyer. Send him a message to re-read the description and explain it to him. Cut and paste a copy in your paypal dispute. Of course he's going to be upset with himself because he thought he was buying twice the rolls. If he sees the light ask him to close the dispute. If he doesn't see the light call paypal to make sure your cut and paste to them is considered in the dispute.
If buyer dosn't see the light then out him, I block stupid buyers as well as dishonest ones.
I once had a guy try to rip me off with a SNAD claiming the shipment did not include all of the items won. I replied for him to return the items. When he returned part of what I sent him I informed paypal that I didn't get back everything that he said he did receive. Two can play that game. He dropped the dispute.
PS: Keep in mind some of the adivce you have thus far received is from those who only read the OP and jump right into giving advice without reading the whole thread. >>
Good advice, if the buyer is just confused it should be an easy fix, at the worst you refund and get all your coins back. Hopefully he is just confused, but there is a load of true crooks out there. What was his feedback? Best of luck!
<< <i>
<< <i>Judge derry finds for the seller.
Honest stupidity on part of buyer. Send him a message to re-read the description and explain it to him. Cut and paste a copy in your paypal dispute. Of course he's going to be upset with himself because he thought he was buying twice the rolls. If he sees the light ask him to close the dispute. If he doesn't see the light call paypal to make sure your cut and paste to them is considered in the dispute.
If buyer dosn't see the light then out him, I block stupid buyers as well as dishonest ones.
I once had a guy try to rip me off with a SNAD claiming the shipment did not include all of the items won. I replied for him to return the items. When he returned part of what I sent him I informed paypal that I didn't get back everything that he said he did receive. Two can play that game. He dropped the dispute.
PS: Keep in mind some of the adivce you have thus far received is from those who only read the OP and jump right into giving advice without reading the whole thread. >>
Good advice, if the buyer is just confused it should be an easy fix, at the worst you refund and get all your coins back. Hopefully he is just confused, but there is a load of true crooks out there. What was his feedback? Best of luck! >>
Thanks everyone for your comments.
He has a good feedback and is a seller too. I am sure he misread the auction. In fact he did offer $235 and bought it for $245 ten minutes later. He thought he was getting a great deal.
Let see how he replies.
Thanks again.
<< <i>How can you prove that a buyer has received the content of a package? PayPal dispute >>
You can't. It helps to have a steller reputation as a seller. It also helps if buyer has made similar claims in the past. At the end of the day paypal normally sides with the buyer on these cases. If someone like a UPS shipping center were to offer a "certified packaging service" where they document and verify what gets sealed in a shipment and paypal were to recognize this service, sellers would have better protection from false claims. Of course, now you've got a clerk at the UPS Store who knows what is in the shipment you just left with him.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>Ouch, talk about a rock and a hard place. If you get him to return "all" the items for a full refund, he'll just send back part of what he received and get free stuff any way.
Here is the only longshot idea I have that might help:
Are flat rate boxes weighed at any time during transit? If so, you may be able to get the recorded weight of the sent package, and compare it to the package you receive from the buyer after telling him to return "everything" for a full refund. If the weight discrepancy is large enough, perhaps Paypal will be more likely to view the buyer as dishonest and take your side.
If that's not possible, I'd probably just ask that he return "everything" for a full refund. Look over the stuff he sends back and if you believe anything to be "damaged", maybe Paypal will let you get off with only issuing a partial refund. After all, the buyer is only sending back part of what you sent him. Fight fire with fire. Then give him the mandatory "positive" feedback with: * NEG * DISHONEST THIEF * in the comments! >>
the weight should be on the receipt.
<< <i>Buyer:
This was supposed to be two mint sets of coins and I only received one set. One set is 10 rolls so I was suppoed to get 20 but only received 10. Everything else is there, just missing the 10 rolls. >>
everything is there but 10 rolls.
yet in the beginning he says he is missing 1 mint set.
definitely very confused.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>ciccio, you should just sell on the bst from now on! Ebay buyers are just ridiculous nowadays! >>
This was on BST for a couple of weeks at a lower price and didn't sell...so I took the chance to put it on eBay.
I agree though, it has become more risky to sell on eBay lately.
Luckily, I narrowed down my collection and don't have enough left to sell!
<< <i>Buyer is definately confused...you shouldl win the SNAD with PayPal, as long as you "walk them through" what was auctioned >>
I got rolled recently for 10 bucks if you can believe it, first time ever. i gave him his money back and told him to go away.
you will win, based on the auction.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Wow...you just changed my mind , theres no way you'll lose a dispute , the auction is crystal clear as to what is being auctioned. >>
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
If you offered a 10 day return, that has expired.
If you got scared and offered a refund in response to the dispute, then you have been done a disservice by the jaded and negative posters who always assume the worst with ebay and paypal. Generally they do not speak from experience but from rumor and internet lore and stories they have heard. Speaking from experience, ebay and paypal do NOT always find for the buyer and do not act irrationally. They look at the facts and treat you fairly. Follow the rules and selling isn't a problem. Paypal offers seller protection as well as buyer protection.
--Jerry
<< <i>I don't see where anyone has given anything else but good advice and the facts considering how they were initially presented. >>
Not all replies are still with us.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
I am willing to take a negative on this one, just to neg him
<< <i>well I am in the same situation, but there is no mistake on the buyer's part. 1 cent and 1 nickel. Claims that he only received one package (they were sent in the same package) with one coin. Buyer with feedback of 9, other 8 items were <$20. Looks like I am going to be out $250.
I am willing to take a negative on this one, just to neg him >>
That would be a good trick , i don't think even Houdini could outdo that , sellers can't neg a buyer
<< <i>well I am in the same situation, but there is no mistake on the buyer's part. 1 cent and 1 nickel. Claims that he only received one package (they were sent in the same package) with one coin. Buyer with feedback of 9, other 8 items were <$20. Looks like I am going to be out $250.
I am willing to take a negative on this one, just to neg him >>
He probably threw the second coin away with the packaging. Did you inform him two purchases would be arriving in the same package. You can't neg a buyer.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>well I am in the same situation, but there is no mistake on the buyer's part. 1 cent and 1 nickel. Claims that he only received one package (they were sent in the same package) with one coin. Buyer with feedback of 9, other 8 items were <$20. Looks like I am going to be out $250.
I am willing to take a negative on this one, just to neg him >>
It's unwise to combine shipments if the buyer paid for 2 seperate s&h's. PayPal will site with the buyer in that case, in a claim of "non receipt".
I am not aware of any Mint Set that consists of 10 rolls. But Ciccio, you made a minor mistake in referring to the 2009 Proof Sets as "Mint Sets". Even so, the listing was pretty straightforward and if there had been any confusion, the buyer should have asked for clarification before bidding.
This buyer sounds like he is fantasizing about getting a rip, and he is playing stupid in order to move the ball forward. I think he will lose any dispute.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>This was supposed to be two mint sets of coins and I only received one set. One set is 10 rolls so I was suppoed to get 20 but only received 10.
I am not aware of any Mint Set that consists of 10 rolls. But Ciccio, you made a minor mistake in referring to the 2009 Proof Sets as "Mint Sets". Even so, the listing was pretty straightforward and if there had been any confusion, the buyer should have asked for clarification before bidding.
This buyer sounds like he is fantasizing about getting a rip, and he is playing stupid in order to move the ball forward. I think he will lose any dispute. >>
There were actually two 2009 complete mint sets, not only the Lincoln coins of those sets. I got his reply stating that he is missing 10 out of 20 rolls. Let's see what Paypal says.
<< <i>It's unwise to combine shipments if the buyer paid for 2 seperate s&h's. PayPal will site with the buyer in that case, in a claim of "non receipt". >>
As long as the paypal shipping address is the same you can include multiple items in one package and show the single "tracking" number in ebay and paypal for each item. I once had a claim against one of three items (shipped together) as a "not received." Paypal sided with me because delivery confirmation showed it delivered (along with the other two items). Paypal could care less who paid shipping and how much they paid. When shipping items together always best to inform buyer and not gouge buyer on total shipping paid by buyer.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.