Are slabbed coins a money pit?

llafoe · March 22, 2011 5:15AM

I just realized, as the coins I submitted under regular SecurePlus service have been gone for almost a month (no grades posted, so they'll be away from home for at least 5-6 weeks), that I'm spending 11% of value (42 coins @ $19K) on grading and photos (TrueViews). If I subsequently submit them to CAC, etc., add another 2.5% to cost. If one or two "+", then I'll recoup some of the value, but if none "+", are slabbed coins nothing more than a money pit?

derryb · March 22, 2011 5:20AM

Collectibles of any type are money pits. Occasionally a collection item pays off in the long term. The only way to profit quickly from a collectible investment is to get it at a discount and sell it for its market value. Slabbing just adds to your costs and reduces your profit (or increases your loss). Otherwise, collectibles are held long term in hopes of appreciation. But then again one has to factor in inflation (the cost of holding the item) over the same period of time.

Slabbing does pay off when buyer knows raw coin will grade higher than estimated grade it was priced at. Buying all the bells and whistle to go with the grading fee just adds to the cost. If the whistle doesn't increase the value of the coin, I wouldn't purchase it.

coolest · March 22, 2011 5:30AM

How much value is added with the +?

19Lyds · March 22, 2011 5:35AM

Yes. Kinda.

Slabbed coins only have value if there is a buyer willing to pay for them.

Other than that, they're just coins in a protective slab.

The trick, is in knowing where to find the buyers (for dealers) or not caring about potential buyers (for collectors)!

However, a coin that has true "VALUE" will attract buyers like flowers attract bees.

elmeister · March 22, 2011 5:36AM

I think that resubmitting already graded coins for SecurePlus and having some some photos taken of them is probably not going to pay off in the long run unless, like you said, you get an upgrade or a plus... if the set is "better" for being in SP holders and CACed is up to you and a potential buyer one day...

IMHO, in the short term going above and beyond by getting fancy plastic w/ as many logos/stickers on it as possible is a bit of a money pit

I've made one submission to a grading service and quickly saw fees add up and up and up... i decided i'd just buy pre-slabbed and let someone else do the submitting... for the cost of a submission for a few coins (incl. shipping/handling/insurance, etc...) i could have bought another newp for my collection...

Lakesammman · March 22, 2011 5:39AM

You could lower the %'s by buying more expensive coins.

ricko · March 22, 2011 5:42AM

TPG, $PG, cracking out, crossovers etc all add cost. A hobby is, by it's very nature, a cost, and repeated 'investments' make the cost that much more likely NOT to be recouped. Value does not necessarily increase the amount you invest in these endeavors. True, sometimes it will. However, continued investment in a coin reduces potential profit. This usually is done (not always) for ego more than profit. Yes, they can be a money pit. Cheers, RickO

Broadstruck · March 22, 2011 5:43AM

<< You could lower the %'s by buying more expensive coins.

>>

questor54 · March 22, 2011 5:44AM

<< I just realized, as the coins I submitted under regular SecurePlus service have been gone for almost a month (no grades posted, so they'll be away from home for at least 5-6 weeks), that I'm spending 11% of value (42 coins @ $19K) on grading and photos (TrueViews). If I subsequently submit them to CAC, etc., add another 2.5% to cost. If one or two "+", then I'll recoup some of the value, but if none "+", are slabbed coins nothing more than a money pit? >>

Absolutely. Nothing more.

Baley · March 22, 2011 5:56AM

Are you getting any knowledge, experience, pleasure and/or excitement from the grading process and photos of your coins?

By the same token, are golf, skiing, sailing, and deep sea fishing also money pits for folks that participate in those activities?

yellowkid · March 22, 2011 5:59AM

Buy the nicest coins you can afford, if they have great eye appeal they are a lot easier to sell, and you are more likely to keep more of your money.

joecopper · March 22, 2011 6:12AM

Coins are a money pit but nothing like a boat

ecichlid · March 22, 2011 6:16AM

<< Buy the nicest coins you can afford, if they have great eye appeal they are a lot easier to sell, and you are more likely to keep more of your money.

>>

Wishful thinking.

MarkInDavis · March 22, 2011 6:18AM

I like to buy my coins already slabbed. That way someone else paid for it.

chumley · March 22, 2011 6:21AM

I've spent a lot of money on coins/bullion over the years...had a blast doing it...so it was worth every penny,regardless of who ended up with the pennies

ChrisRx · March 22, 2011 6:42AM

If they don't "plus" then they are downgrades.

blu62vette · March 22, 2011 6:45AM

If your goal was just to get a + then why not submit them under a normal service? If they were already graded why not just do regrades?

ambro51 · March 22, 2011 6:47AM

youre thimking too much

tahoe98 · March 22, 2011 6:48AM

<< I think that resubmitting already graded coins for SecurePlus and having some some photos taken of them is probably not going to pay off in the long run unless, like you said, you get an upgrade or a plus... if the set is "better" for being in SP holders and CACed is up to you and a potential buyer one day...

IMHO, in the short term going above and beyond by getting fancy plastic w/ as many logos/stickers on it as possible is a bit of a money pit

I've made one submission to a grading service and quickly saw fees add up and up and up... i decided i'd just buy pre-slabbed and let someone else do the submitting... for the cost of a submission for a few coins (incl. shipping/handling/insurance, etc...) i could have bought another newp for my collection... >>

...i think you're describing the meaning of the word gambling.

LindeDad · March 22, 2011 8:53AM

I'll put it simple non slabbed high grade and high dollar coins don't get bids from me and a lot of others these days. Only the pro's can pay that game with all the problems there and mostly they want to see the coin in hand .
So no I do not think of slabbing cost as a money pit. I think you will recoup most if not more when selling them.
Now regrades, secure plus, and the True views hopefully make the coins more enjoyable to you and it's your money pit in a way.
We all collect slightly diferent things and ways.

drei3ree · March 22, 2011 10:05AM

It's a "hobby" for most of us and nothing more.

mozin · March 22, 2011 10:20AM

I have not bought a raw coin in many years, likely never will. It is doubtful I will ever buy anything but PCGS from here on, no reason to deal with the crossover hassles. It would make me happy if my collection was all PCGS/CAC, but it is not.

Much of my collection was sent in for reholder, likely for variety listing on the label too. Can't stand scratched plastic holders. Since PCGS has started to charge way too much for these services, I do not intend to continue this practice, probably polish the scratches as best I can, and leave it at that.

If this makes my collection a money pit, so be it.

TomB · March 22, 2011 10:22AM

These are sunken costs, though depending upon the coin and grade you could recoup your investment many multiples over.

pontiacinf · March 22, 2011 10:27AM

buy the coin not the coffin if your unsure

ColonelJessup · March 22, 2011 11:40AM

Harvey Stack said, for decades, in person and in print, that coins were not an investment in terms of money. You'd probably get your money back in 10 or 20 years. What you got was "psychic income". I think he's right. Now does anyone have a copy of last week's GreySheet?

When J.P. Morgan was showing his yacht he was asked "How much does a boat like that cost?" and Morgan replied "If you've got to ask, you can't afford one". "A hole in the water into which you pour your money".

Compared to boats we have it easy...

RYK · March 22, 2011 11:54AM

By the same token, are golf, skiing, sailing, and deep sea fishing also money pits for folks that participate in those activities?

I just came back from a ski trip with the family. Talk about money pits! I could have purchased a very nice coin and stayed home. We had a fun time, however, and I would do it again.

As for the OP's question:

Are slabbed coins a money pit?

I am not sure why slabbed coins are any more a money pit than raw or bodybagged coins.

Additionally, I have been filling this Barber dime album with average (and below average) circ material, and this has cost a lot more than I would have ever dreamed. There is no way that I will ever recoup my costs on it.

keets · March 22, 2011 12:13PM

comparing coins to boats and the other things used by RYK is really aples to oranges. once a coin is "bought" all expenditures are over. sure, you can figure in the annual cost of a SDB, but that is really a small amount when distributed evenly among all that it holds. from my way of thinking, all the things mentioned post-purchase are added value. since it seems the OP is concerned with percentage added to intitial cost he must be assuming he'll sell someday and wants to know the total investment in each coin. if that's the case i'd suggest keeping them raw till it's time to sell.

the "money pit" reference to slabbed coins is really only true if you're trying to "add value" to a coin and you miscalculate while playing the lottery. that happens most often with Modern issues and Generic stuff(like an 1881-S Morgan) where only the top grade(s) is a money maker and everything else is a money loser. you'd better be able to grade fairly well at that game or you'll lose.

Baley · March 23, 2011 4:45AM

once a coin is "bought" all expenditures are over

the OP post to the contrary: he already owned the coins, bought and paid for.

now is spending money on mailing fees, insurance fees, photography fees, appraisal (grading) fees and encapulation fees,

(and, with apologies to Steve Martin, maybe shinbone polish, and cuticle frames, too)

ecichlid · March 23, 2011 4:52AM

Those are all costs that you volunteer for. Some people want to slab coins worth $20. It's not worth it to me. I wouldn't slab a coin unless I was ready to sell it. Even then, it would have to be worth more than $200.

I think PCGS offers a great service(s). It's up to you to decide when their services are warranted.

questor54 · March 23, 2011 4:55AM

With respect, when you buy the coin the expense is NOT over. You lose the money you could have (POSSIBLY) made by putting the same amount of money into other investments (compounded). If you have a $10,000 this is obviously not as much of a concern as if you have a $10,000,000 collection.

Coins are a rotten buy-and-hold investment. But I collect them anyway.

scottgardener · March 23, 2011 5:17AM

That is well said, though the last ten years aren't exactly helping to prove the point, with the markets crashing and precious metals going crazy. In the long run, I do think high end collecting can be an investment, but cheaper coins are common enough that their long term investment potential is probably not overly great.

Coin collecting is a hobby that can double as an investment if you can afford the good coins, but I freely acknowledge that my side projects, like a certified mid-grade to circulated Peace dollar set, is more entertainment than investment. (Or, at least, it's frigging supposed to be! Silver has shot up so fast that I could probably walk away even, even after a few grading submissions!)

Steve27 · March 23, 2011 5:29AM

It used to be much more reasonable to have a coin slabbed (i.e. no fee just to be able to submit, lower grading fees, and lower shipping fees), there were no Secure holders, no pluses, and no CAC. Now unless there is a large monetary advantage, you should probably keep your coins raw and forget about making Registry sets.

telephoto1 · March 23, 2011 5:43AM

IMO slabbed coins are a money pit only if you keep falling into the trap of spending more after the fact to have the latest, greatest holder, sticker or service.
Face it- TPGs provide a service to collectors, but at the end of the day they are also businesses. Thus, they have to periodically reinvent the wheel to continue to generate income.
So, if you place more value on the holder than you do the item in the holder, yes- slabbed coins can potentially be a money pit in my opinion.

scottgardener · March 23, 2011 6:09AM

And, one year after the "Big One" at the ANA National Money Show, David Hall takes to the stage in a much-publicized slide show presentation to announce Secure Plus 4G, the next generation of coin certification and authentication, available with Wi-Fi or with both Wi-Fi and a new tiered subscription service with CoinFacts.

yellowkid · March 23, 2011 6:19AM

<< Are you getting any knowledge, experience, pleasure and/or excitement from the grading process and photos of your coins?

By the same token, are golf, skiing, sailing, and deep sea fishing also money pits for folks that participate in those activities? >>

You left out owning horses

keets · March 23, 2011 7:18AM

once a coin is "bought" all expenditures are over

c'mon, Baley, i think you know what i mean. once a coin is bought it doesn't require any maintenance, it doesn't require any fuel everytime you "use" it, there are annual registration fees, etc. etc. etc.

--------------when you buy the coin the expense is NOT over.

whatever.

mrpotatoheadd · March 23, 2011 7:44AM

<< You lose the money you could have (POSSIBLY) made by putting the same amount of money into other investments (compounded). >>

You can't lose money you never had.

PawPaul · March 23, 2011 9:06AM

..if one of the coins you submitted hits a wonder grade or a plus .........that single coin could very well pay for all your fee's !

.at least - that's what I always shoot for

Elcontador · March 23, 2011 4:03PM

<< TPG, $PG, cracking out, crossovers etc all add cost. A hobby is, by it's very nature, a cost, and repeated 'investments' make the cost that much more likely NOT to be recouped. Value does not necessarily increase the amount you invest in these endeavors. True, sometimes it will. However, continued investment in a coin reduces potential profit. This usually is done (not always) for ego more than profit. Yes, they can be a money pit. Cheers, RickO >>

This.

If you bought a coin you like in the holder you like, you won't have to deal with the above.

I think the plus is too new to firmly establish a value for it, and what the CAC sticker adds to a coin's value depends on the series. Ie., I've seen very few CAC stickers on Classic Large Cents or Bust $s, so I would think these coins would go for a premium, but I'm not impressed with many of the MS 66 Liberty Nickels I've seen with the sticker (and I've seen a fair number of them).

Before sending a con in, I need to know up front how much it might increase its value, and what are the chances of a cross or upgrade. For this reason, I usually don't do it. You can make money if you know a series well and someone didn't beat you to, say, getting a really nice 44 S Walker in 4, or NGC CBH in 5. I think most of these scenarios are gone.

I would only pay for a photo of a coin of mine if I was getting ready to sell it.

melvin289 · March 23, 2011 4:23PM

<< Are you getting any knowledge, experience, pleasure and/or excitement from the grading process and photos of your coins?

By the same token, are golf, skiing, sailing, and deep sea fishing also money pits for folks that participate in those activities? >>

The cost of going fishing is what I will comment on here. A lot of the guys I work with have bass boats to the tune of close to $20,000. Plus the cost of all the expensive rods and reels and gas and insurance for the boat etc. etc. I can go to a nice fish restaurant and have a seafood meal for around 20 bucks. Talk about a money pit . For what they spend to go fishing I can buy some very nice coins.

Ron

Bayard1908 · March 23, 2011 4:31PM

Talk about a money pit, you probably can't remember the good old days before slabbing when dealers sold you a coin as BU and insisted it was AU when you wanted to sell it back to them.

GrumpyEd · March 23, 2011 5:23PM

<< The cost of going fishing is what I will comment on here. A lot of the guys I work with have bass boats to the tune of close to $20,000. Plus the cost of all the expensive rods and reels and gas and insurance for the boat etc. etc. I can go to a nice fish restaurant and have a seafood meal for around 20 bucks. Talk about a money pit . For what they spend to go fishing I can buy some very nice coins. >>

Good point!
Over time you might even get back what you put into coins. If you compare it with some investments it's not always a money maker. Comparing it to other hobbies or blowing money at bars or many things people spend money on then it's not bad at all.

leothelyon · March 23, 2011 6:51PM

No matter how many ways you roll the dice, your buyers are either going to continue rolling the dice with them or a collector might want it for his/her collection.

Leo

Outhaul · March 23, 2011 8:50PM

There was a time when coin collecting was enjoyable in all ways. With the introduction of third-party grading,
the hobby became that much more expensive. Now, don't get me wrong, third-party grading has its place for
authentication and authentication only; remember, grade is only an opinion. Having said that, it would only
be a natural course of events for grading services to create other ways to extract money from the collector's
wallet. What, with grading fees, CAC Approval, review fees, etc., it is no surprise that the cost of the hobby is
soaring out of sight.

For a couple of centuries, collectors were perfectly happy with coin envelopes, 2X2s, mylars, and flips. Now, do
I really need to have my coins professionally photographed? Do I really need to submit my already graded coin
to yet another service for their approval of the third-party grade? Is the expenditure of these funds going to
change the look of my coin or change my opinion of the look of the coin? It shouldn't. After all, I liked the look
of the coin right off the bat or I would not have purchased it.

It's funny how collectors beat each other up over a dollar while making the deal and then spend the equivalent of
the cost of a nice coin to have it graded, photographed, and then CAC approved. I don't need a third (and now
even a fourth) party to tell me how much I should like my coin.

Just my eversohumble opinion.

Cheers,

Bob

Are slabbed coins a money pit?

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