Original roll of Morgans

morgansforever · February 20, 2011 10:18PM

Interesting and intriguing, with a full blown DMPL CC on one of the ends.
The wrapper says Carson City State Trust Bank.
I have no connection with the seller, just stumbled upon it.
Anyone have any info on the wrapper? Any guesses on the final hammer?
Morganroll

dragon · February 20, 2011 10:26PM

I'm pretty sure there's been at least one or more threads here in the past about these rolls.

golfer72 · February 20, 2011 10:28PM

Way cool if legit. I will have to track that one!

Steve27 · February 20, 2011 10:28PM

Here's an old thread with the same subject LINK; in that case it appears to have been a put together roll.

morgansforever · February 20, 2011 10:30PM

I searched and found one other thread with the same type of roll, don't know if it was the same seller.

roadrunner · February 20, 2011 10:40PM

These rolls are rare and there is a value on the roll itself since there are so few of these unopened unsearched rolls from the period. The coins that are rolled follow all the same rules of all bank rolls. A bank roll from 100 years ago does not make the coins inside rare dates like a 1889cc .......but we do know that they seem to have high proportions of PL and DMPLs, the investor question is whether to sock away the roll as an investment in itself or to open the roll. I personally think its better to sock away the roll since there are very few unopened rolls left and that value will only increase as more get opened.

There's absolutely no reason that I could see why rolled Morgans from years ago would have a higher % of PL/DMPL coins. What, bank tellers back then were DMPL enthusiasts and loved to stick them in the rolls....and then not bother to keep them?

The end pieces of this roll have no PL surfaces that I can see based on the frontal shots. But curiously they have made the low angle shots look DMPL...nice trick! Odd ring of crusty/hazy non-colorful toning around the two end coins. Not something one would expect from 80-120 year old storage.

IF FOR SOME BIZARRE REASON WINNER WISHES TO RETURN ROLL. IT MUST BE UNOPENED AND IN ORIGINAL STATE FROM WHEN I SHIPPED IT FOR REFUND. THIS SUCKER IS GLUED TIGHT

The only sucker in this scenario would probably be the buyer who is getting their pants glued. It would be cheaper to buy these coins separately in GSA holders. And your odds of getting a DMPL for nothing would be just about as good. They glued rolls together in the old days?

roadrunner

morgansforever · February 20, 2011 11:05PM

Is this the same coin, one shot appears to be plain ol mint state, the other PL/DMPL?

The CC appears to be a slam dunk DMPL, NO?

coindeuce · February 20, 2011 11:29PM

Glued and screwed.

messydesk · February 20, 2011 11:47PM

RFR!

1. Never heard of a roll being glued before, and I've never seen "roll glue" on a coin. This is just a stunt to make it impossible to take apart and reassemble the roll without violating the return conditions.
2. The CC coin shown might be a one-sided PL.
3. The 18 coins in the middle of the roll could be Ikes, which you can't prove without violating the return conditions (although Mr. SNAD would be on your side, and the fallout with the seller would be most entertaining from a third-party standpoint).
4. Where's the toning from being wrapped in paper for 90 years?

morgansforever · February 21, 2011 2:38AM

18 different bidders think this is a mini jackpot.
Messydesk, can you imagine the look on the face of the buyer, when
he opens it and 18 clad Ikes are sanwiched in the middle, oh my.
Even if the contents are all common date 63ish Morgans, as of now @ $4550, plus
the $16 shipping, that works out to $228 a piece. Either scenerio is horrible, the first is horrible x 10.
Coindeuce, forgot the tattooed. Glued screwed, and tattooed.

SaorAlba · February 21, 2011 2:44AM

Surely it is legit, after all, it is on fleaBay

roadrunner · February 21, 2011 2:45AM

I'm seeing way too much field luster in that first photo to convince me of a PL or DMPL coin. But, the following photos could easily show reflectivity if the seller place a piece of transparent plastic over the entire area and photographed through it. NGC slabs for example display reflectivity from the plastic itself.

roadrunner

morgansforever · February 21, 2011 3:18AM

Here are 4 different buyers that have purchased rolls.
Surely one of them opened their purchase. Maybe there is some legitimacy, I'm not willing to risk it though.
One buyer was Lemon Squeezy about the roll, not sure what that means.
I found 4, but there were more, all left POS FB, interesting.

thank you
rc RARE SEALED Morgan Silver Dollar CC Bank Roll (#290445030690)
Jun-27-10 (djkcoins) $2052

Cool Roll, Fast Shipping, Great Seller, Thanks!
ULTRA RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank Roll (#290431462398)
May-16-10 (south.folrida.sales) $2880

Thanks!
RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank FULL STACK Roll (#250601650686)
Apr-05-10 (mccabe8167) $3150

A+++!!! EZ, PZ, Lemon Squeezy
ULTRA RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank Roll NB (#250544235347
Dec-29-09 (ktshimizu) $3451

mkman123 · February 21, 2011 3:37AM

someone should email some of the previous buyers and see if any opened their rolls.

anablep · February 21, 2011 3:42AM

The other roll he has for sale also shows both reverses.

Curious.

coindeuce · February 21, 2011 6:26AM

<< The other roll he has for sale also shows both reverses.

Curious. >>

What a coinkydink!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 21, 2011 6:49AM

This seller has listed rolls like these before. They are not legitimate.

Dentuck · February 21, 2011 7:06AM

The fact that no such animal as the "Carson City State Trust Bank" ever existed..... is that pertinent to the discussion?

golden · February 21, 2011 7:22AM

A fool and his money are soon parted!

morgansforever · February 21, 2011 8:18PM

Current bid is $6225, up nearly 2 grand from a day ago.
1. Dumb buyers have no clue about the value of common date Morgans.
2. The rolls are totally legit and filled with unc CC Morgans.
3. Total scam with multiple shillers inplace.

Dentuck, if this bank never existed then the wrapper must have been created.
I just don't get it.

Steve27 · February 21, 2011 8:23PM

Here's another one he has up for auction LINK.

morgansforever · February 21, 2011 8:26PM

Steve I've been Googling this bank with no luck on info.
I saw the other auction, same wrapper, but this roll has an end toner.

EDIT: What baffles me is that all the FB from buyers who have purchased rolls is positive.
Did they open them? Do they own a RB? Are they legally blind? Are they paid shillers?

roadrunner · February 21, 2011 9:33PM

but we do know that they seem to have high proportions of PL and DMPLs, the investor question is whether to sock away the roll as an investment in itself or to open the roll. I personally think its better to sock away the roll since there are very few unopened rolls left and that value will only increase as more get opened.

If the seller thinks this way, why are they not keeping the remaining rare rolls for themself? But interesting last sentence is a suggestion to his buyers not to open this roll or risk devaluing them.

roadrunner

ricko · February 21, 2011 9:49PM

How many red flags and warning signs do people need? Even a collector with only minimal experience should know enough to research this. Also, anyone experienced on ebay can clearly see the signs of shill bidding and fake feedback. Cheers, RickO

llafoe · February 21, 2011 9:54PM

I'd pay $250 for 10 and $500 for 20 from this seller. I wonder why, out of the 4 rolls, the 8 coins shown are all reverses?

Unknown · February 21, 2011 10:32PM

This content has been removed.

llafoe · February 21, 2011 10:36PM

I see 1883-CC GSAs sell for $155-$165 in MS63, so I wouldn't pay over $1,800 for a raw roll of 20.

slipgate · February 21, 2011 10:40PM

This scenario is commonly known as the "long con".

My guess is all the previous sales are shillers bumping up the price to some # that the seller hopes to get to increase market attention to the rolls. Once the market is established by the shillers, the hope is that some unsuspecting mark will come along and actually bid high, thinking the feedback for previous is proof they are legit.

You'll end up getting one 63ish ok common date cc carson with PL or DMPL qualities and 19 common date Morgans.

MadMax67 · February 22, 2011 4:05AM

I sent this guy a few questions/statement /my opinions on these rolls and here is his reply:::
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nate Bigger <nate_bigger@yahoo.com>
To: guitar_ms4826pe@members.ebay.com
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 6:25:20 PM RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank FULL STACK Roll #250775489193

I am selling these on consignment

all I know is what I have seen when I opened them which I describe in the description as being no more than 1500 to 2000 in PCGS value (if bidders would bother to look them up in greysheet). And that does not include shipping, insurance and grading fees. At what this roll is at there has to be 3-4 big coins pulled. even if the whole roll was blast white MS64 1883CCs you would still lose on value.

QUESTION,1. Never heard of a roll being glued before, and I've never seen "roll glue" on a coin. This is just a stunt to make it impossible to take apart and reassemble the roll without violating the return conditions.

1) neither have I, notice I say not to open them. the resale value is clearly way higher unopened. Once u open them as you suspect the cost per coin will not likely hold up at 225 dollar a coin the auction is at. For Example let say the CC is graded by pcgs as PL ms61 and its a 83 you already behind. Lets say the s is graded by the PCGS as a DMPL but its the 80s your are screwed. ppl should bid on least amount of value. When I bought these rolls directly for myself I paid 1200-1750 a roll. However in a bid site........christ

QUESTION -2. The CC coin shown might be a one-sided PL or worse?

2) yes that is always a possibility

QUESTION -3. The 18 coins in the middle of the roll could be common dtaes, which you can't prove without violating the return conditions

3) I desribe in the description the coins I pullled and those are common dates. The rarest that has come out of these rolls that I have seen is a 82 O/O strong ms63, 81cc dmpl ms62, 1896 ms63 ( No one has complained yet)

QUESTION -4. Where's the toning from being wrapped in origianal bank roll paper for 100 years?

4) The short stack that ends two days later has toning if that helps

QUESTION -5. as far as i am aware of the banks and mints did not roll their coins with both ends showing the reverse.

5) I know nothing about that. I have seen it done every which way from the 50s on from chase mahattan penny rolls to federal reserve bank rolls etc. whether machine or hand wrapped there is no inspector no 8 making sure they are rolled right. That is what I think is a myth

QUESTION -6. the bank that you state these rolls came from ,never exsited,I did a google search and came up with nothing of significance!

6) Its in the UC Berkeley archive last I checked and this bank was created by theo roosevelt to liquidate the previous banks holdings (State Bank of Nevada I think, and some savings and gold trust that failed in late 1800s go look it up) and shut it down in 1907. some dude sent me a bunch of articles on it that he found on google. Try searching some more!!!!!

QUESTION -7. get ready to buy these back opened or not when the buyer sees that he got screwed by a con-artist-LOL.

7) Has never happened. I have sold over 30 on consignment over the last 15 months. The guy that has these rolls has sold thru other consigners another 20-30

don't know if this guy is legit or not ,but i know i rattled his cage--

scottgardener · February 22, 2011 6:16AM

I personally think it is legitimate, but I think people forking over several thousand bucks are likely to be disappointed when they get two or three CC Morgans worth maybe $500 each and some commons with about $40.

djdilliodon · February 22, 2011 6:43AM

Since this guy is a liar and i cant seem to swallow that this roll is anywhere near legit im going to say this which imo is a loupe hole in his return policy. He says if the roll is open no return right? Why not just say that the roll was damaged and opened during shipping if the coins inside suck? Then you can return him his junk and get your money back

. Now someone buy it and post the results!

coindeuce · February 22, 2011 8:21AM

<< I see 1883-CC GSAs sell for $155-$165 in MS63, so I wouldn't pay over $1,800 for a raw roll of 20. >>

I know you would swing and miss a whole lot at that level. You would need to get a lot closer to $3K to have a realistic chance to get to 1st base.

I messaged the seller through eBay and asked where I could get my own phony ink stamp of a fictitious bank.

Russ · February 22, 2011 8:38AM

<< 

<< I see 1883-CC GSAs sell for $155-$165 in MS63, so I wouldn't pay over $1,800 for a raw roll of 20. >>

I know you would swing and miss a whole lot at that level. You would need to get a lot closer to $3K to have a realistic chance to get to 1st base. >>

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Either he's a dreamer, or not real good at math.

Russ, NCNE

coindeuce · February 22, 2011 8:42AM

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Either he's a dreamer, or not real good at math.

Russ, NCNE >>

Or both.

BlindedByEgo · February 22, 2011 9:02AM

For what it's worth, I didn't catch him being rattled. He's got enough answers to at least sound confident, and he's not obviously misstating anything.

His rolls are not my cup of meat, but he's got a marketing story and buyer greed working on his side.

<< I sent this guy a few questions/statement /my opinions on these rolls and here is his reply:::
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nate Bigger <nate_bigger@yahoo.com>
To: guitar_ms4826pe@members.ebay.com
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 6:25:20 PM RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank FULL STACK Roll #250775489193

I am selling these on consignment

all I know is what I have seen when I opened them which I describe in the description as being no more than 1500 to 2000 in PCGS value (if bidders would bother to look them up in greysheet). And that does not include shipping, insurance and grading fees. At what this roll is at there has to be 3-4 big coins pulled. even if the whole roll was blast white MS64 1883CCs you would still lose on value.

QUESTION,1. Never heard of a roll being glued before, and I've never seen "roll glue" on a coin. This is just a stunt to make it impossible to take apart and reassemble the roll without violating the return conditions.

1) neither have I, notice I say not to open them. the resale value is clearly way higher unopened. Once u open them as you suspect the cost per coin will not likely hold up at 225 dollar a coin the auction is at. For Example let say the CC is graded by pcgs as PL ms61 and its a 83 you already behind. Lets say the s is graded by the PCGS as a DMPL but its the 80s your are screwed. ppl should bid on least amount of value. When I bought these rolls directly for myself I paid 1200-1750 a roll. However in a bid site........christ

QUESTION -2. The CC coin shown might be a one-sided PL or worse?

2) yes that is always a possibility

QUESTION -3. The 18 coins in the middle of the roll could be common dtaes, which you can't prove without violating the return conditions

3) I desribe in the description the coins I pullled and those are common dates. The rarest that has come out of these rolls that I have seen is a 82 O/O strong ms63, 81cc dmpl ms62, 1896 ms63 ( No one has complained yet)

QUESTION -4. Where's the toning from being wrapped in origianal bank roll paper for 100 years?

4) The short stack that ends two days later has toning if that helps

QUESTION -5. as far as i am aware of the banks and mints did not roll their coins with both ends showing the reverse.

5) I know nothing about that. I have seen it done every which way from the 50s on from chase mahattan penny rolls to federal reserve bank rolls etc. whether machine or hand wrapped there is no inspector no 8 making sure they are rolled right. That is what I think is a myth

QUESTION -6. the bank that you state these rolls came from ,never exsited,I did a google search and came up with nothing of significance!

6) Its in the UC Berkeley archive last I checked and this bank was created by theo roosevelt to liquidate the previous banks holdings (State Bank of Nevada I think, and some savings and gold trust that failed in late 1800s go look it up) and shut it down in 1907. some dude sent me a bunch of articles on it that he found on google. Try searching some more!!!!!

QUESTION -7. get ready to buy these back opened or not when the buyer sees that he got screwed by a con-artist-LOL.

7) Has never happened. I have sold over 30 on consignment over the last 15 months. The guy that has these rolls has sold thru other consigners another 20-30

don't know if this guy is legit or not ,but i know i rattled his cage--

>>

Unknown · February 22, 2011 9:36AM

This content has been removed.

morgansforever · February 22, 2011 9:57AM

Final hammer $7125, plus $16 shipping.
$357 per coin, wish I new the buyer.
I'll glady sell you boring common dates for half that.
Ebay prides itself on secuity, and doesn't disclose the winner.
Guess I'll have to wait until FB is left. Blows my mind, in this economy,
someone is willing to shell out 7k, and doesn't even know what they will receive.

Frankcoins · February 22, 2011 10:24AM

<< 
The CC appears to be a slam dunk DMPL, NO?
>>

Absoutely not

Frankcoins · February 22, 2011 10:29AM

Made up bank name, Google it and you find reference only to these rolls. I hope the buyer enjoys his MS-62 1883-CC, his M63 1880-S, and a bunch of AU junk in the middle of the roll.

Frankcoins · February 22, 2011 10:34AM

<< I wonder why, out of the 4 rolls, the 8 coins shown are all reverses? >>

Odds are 1 in 256

coindeuce · February 22, 2011 12:43PM

Does anyone else here think it is just remarkably coincidental that the seller seems to be very proficient at toeing the line on what would constitute fraud in the venue used ?

MadMax67 · February 22, 2011 1:29PM

<< 

<< I see 1883-CC GSAs sell for $155-$165 in MS63, so I wouldn't pay over $1,800 for a raw roll of 20. >>

I know you would swing and miss a whole lot at that level. You would need to get a lot closer to $3K to have a realistic chance to get to 1st base.

I messaged the seller through eBay and asked where I could get my own phony ink stamp of a fictitious bank. >>

MadMax67 · February 22, 2011 1:31PM

<< For what it's worth, I didn't catch him being rattled. He's got enough answers to at least sound confident, and he's not obviously misstating anything.

His rolls are not my cup of meat, but he's got a marketing story and buyer greed working on his side.

<< I sent this guy a few questions/statement /my opinions on these rolls and here is his reply:::
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nate Bigger <nate_bigger@yahoo.com>
To: guitar_ms4826pe@members.ebay.com
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 6:25:20 PM RARE SEALED Morgan Dollar CC State Bank FULL STACK Roll #250775489193

I am selling these on consignment

all I know is what I have seen when I opened them which I describe in the description as being no more than 1500 to 2000 in PCGS value (if bidders would bother to look them up in greysheet). And that does not include shipping, insurance and grading fees. At what this roll is at there has to be 3-4 big coins pulled. even if the whole roll was blast white MS64 1883CCs you would still lose on value.

QUESTION,1. Never heard of a roll being glued before, and I've never seen "roll glue" on a coin. This is just a stunt to make it impossible to take apart and reassemble the roll without violating the return conditions.

1) neither have I, notice I say not to open them. the resale value is clearly way higher unopened. Once u open them as you suspect the cost per coin will not likely hold up at 225 dollar a coin the auction is at. For Example let say the CC is graded by pcgs as PL ms61 and its a 83 you already behind. Lets say the s is graded by the PCGS as a DMPL but its the 80s your are screwed. ppl should bid on least amount of value. When I bought these rolls directly for myself I paid 1200-1750 a roll. However in a bid site........christ

QUESTION -2. The CC coin shown might be a one-sided PL or worse?

2) yes that is always a possibility

QUESTION -3. The 18 coins in the middle of the roll could be common dtaes, which you can't prove without violating the return conditions

3) I desribe in the description the coins I pullled and those are common dates. The rarest that has come out of these rolls that I have seen is a 82 O/O strong ms63, 81cc dmpl ms62, 1896 ms63 ( No one has complained yet)

QUESTION -4. Where's the toning from being wrapped in origianal bank roll paper for 100 years?

4) The short stack that ends two days later has toning if that helps

QUESTION -5. as far as i am aware of the banks and mints did not roll their coins with both ends showing the reverse.

5) I know nothing about that. I have seen it done every which way from the 50s on from chase mahattan penny rolls to federal reserve bank rolls etc. whether machine or hand wrapped there is no inspector no 8 making sure they are rolled right. That is what I think is a myth

QUESTION -6. the bank that you state these rolls came from ,never exsited,I did a google search and came up with nothing of significance!

6) Its in the UC Berkeley archive last I checked and this bank was created by theo roosevelt to liquidate the previous banks holdings (State Bank of Nevada I think, and some savings and gold trust that failed in late 1800s go look it up) and shut it down in 1907. some dude sent me a bunch of articles on it that he found on google. Try searching some more!!!!!

QUESTION -7. get ready to buy these back opened or not when the buyer sees that he got screwed by a con-artist-LOL.

7) Has never happened. I have sold over 30 on consignment over the last 15 months. The guy that has these rolls has sold thru other consigners another 20-30

don't know if this guy is legit or not ,but i know i rattled his cage--

>>

>>

OH I DEFINATLEY RATTLED HIS CAGE I JUST CAN NOT POST THE SECOND AND THIRD MESSAGES THAT HE SENT ME DUE TO POSTING RULES CONCERNING BAD WORDS-

Original roll of Morgans

Comments

Leave a Comment