Please vote in this PCGS online Survey...
RedHerring
Posts: 2,077 ✭
...only 147 votes had been cast after my vote.
Here's the question: Should fantasy coins (coins unknown to exist, for example 1933 Quarter, 1964-D Peace Dollar) have the word COPY on them?
Click the link below to vote:
PCGS ezine Survey Link
Here's the question: Should fantasy coins (coins unknown to exist, for example 1933 Quarter, 1964-D Peace Dollar) have the word COPY on them?
Click the link below to vote:
PCGS ezine Survey Link
0
Comments
I knew it would happen.
My thoughts on the simplicity of it all.
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That should be question number two and not the only question. Number one should be
Should fantasy coins (coins unknown to exist, for example 1933 Quarter, 1964-D Peace Dollar)
be encapsulated by any Third Party Grader
NO
Then the question they ask
Might I suggest an alternative survey question?
Should "imitation numismatic items" manufactured in modern times to be sold at a profit be marked with the word "COPY," in accordance with the Hobby Protection Act of 1973?
TD
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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I also think if you were to mint a coin like....say a 1931 Washington Quarter, it should also carry the word "FAKE" if not, the coin could be used to defraud.
<< <i>
I also think if you were to mint a coin like....say a 1931 Washington Quarter, it should also carry the word "FAKE" if not, the coin could be used to defraud. >>
Yes, and baseball bats "could be used to defraud" a gullible buyer too, should some shady character claim that it was used by Don Sutton to hit a home run even though none are known to exist. (They can't exist; he never hit one...sort of like a 1931 Washington Quarter.
Edit to add:
The bottom line is that it is impossible to protect someone from himself. If a person wants to believe he can buy a bridge from someone standing on a street corner in Brooklyn then he is going to find a person who willing to sell it to him.
Second edit to add that Perry sold a bridge before I could make my edit
<< <i>
<< <i>If the coin HAS ever existed, regardless if a certain government recognizes it's existance, then it should carry the word COPY on it. If you make some coin out of the blue, that couldn't be used to defraud anyone, then there is no reason to have the word copy on it. Actually, I think it should read "FAKE" instead of "COPY" to be honest. Since it isn't actually a copy. Something should be there to inform the public that they haven't stumbled into a multi-million dollar coin.
I also think if you were to mint a coin like....say a 1931 Washington Quarter, it should also carry the word "FAKE" if not, the coin could be used to defraud. >>
Yes, and baseball bats "can be used to defraud" a gullible buyer too, should some shady character claim that it was used by Don Sutton to hit a home run even though none are known to exist. (They can't exist; he never hit one...sort of like a 1931 Washington Quarter.
Agree. We should also demolish the Brooklyn Bridge because someone may sell it to some gullible victim.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>If the coin HAS ever existed, regardless if a certain government recognizes it's existance, then it should carry the word COPY on it. If you make some coin out of the blue, that couldn't be used to defraud anyone, then there is no reason to have the word copy on it. Actually, I think it should read "FAKE" instead of "COPY" to be honest. Since it isn't actually a copy. Something should be there to inform the public that they haven't stumbled into a multi-million dollar coin.
I also think if you were to mint a coin like....say a 1931 Washington Quarter, it should also carry the word "FAKE" if not, the coin could be used to defraud. >>
Yes, and baseball bats "can be used to defraud" a gullible buyer too, should some shady character claim that it was used by Don Sutton to hit a home run even though none are known to exist. (They can't exist; he never hit one...sort of like a 1931 Washington Quarter.
That's not the same conclusion. Ethically it would be responsible to disclose the fact that something is not what it seems. PERIOD. If not, and you sell it as such you are defrauding, which is against the law. With your baseball bat analogy you are attaching a story to a common bat. A person isn't going to find a bat out in the field and automatically think that it's something valuable (above what a normal bat would cost) they would think..."hey look, I found a bat." If someone were to find a 1931 Washington Quarter, dollar signs would be running through their head, since it is commonly known that quarters were made in 1932, and that they might have found an early prototype or pattern. It is the story that is fraudulent, not the bat itself. (Although if you were trying to sell a bat and claimed that Don Sutton hit a home run with it and it was a lie, it would be illegal, regardless if he ACTUALLY hit one or not with ANY bat. You are claiming something that is untrue in order to defraud the buyer into paying more.)
If you were to guild the bat, then try to sell it as a solid gold bat, then you would have a closer situation. In the gold bat scenario, the common person would likely still not be duped, since it wouldn't weigh as much as one would expect. For sake of arguement, let's say it does weigh the same amount as one would expect. This still isn't exactly the same type of situation because the general public doesn't have any experience with solid gold bats. The government doesn't make them, there isn't a group of collectors that specialize in them, they are not used daily as a mode of commerce, and there isn't an historical facet that makes it worth more than it's intrinsic value. With a fake 1931 quarter it is an extrapolation of something that not only exists, but is used daily in commerce, and has a very stong cultural tradition. The quarter (if it were real) would have an astronomical market value, the bat would only be worth it's weight in gold.
Regardless, in both situations (Fake solid gold bat, and the fake 1931 Washington Quarter,) there should be markings on the item itself denoting that the item isn't what the average person would percieve. If the item is fake, and a close approximation of a real item, and in itself could reasonably be mistaken for the real item, then it should carry the word "Fake" "Copy" or "Not Authentic" on the item.
As my grandpappy used to say, "Avoid the appearance of evil." This holds true here, avoid the appearance of trying to defraud people, even if the defrauding isn't done by the maker of the item. If it is YOUR item that is used to defraud, it is your responsibility to take reasonable measures to ensure that the defrauding doesn't happen.
Even if making historically significant fantasy pieces isn't illegal, don't you think the world would be a better place if we didn't allow a situation where people would be tricked into loosing huge amounts of money to swindlers? If the honest people aren't going to try to prevent it, then there is no way that the dishonest people aren't going to take advantage of the situation.
only because the bat had already been sold.
The point being, when fantasy coins hit the market they get publicity just exactly the same way as recently released fantasy pieces. This creates a referenceable history that literally anybody has access to and if someones out to commit a scam, which no doubt will be attempted, it's the scammee's responsibility to do a least a little research before jumping into a "too good to be true" situation. I realize that there are idiots among us that will pay exhorbitant sums (remember the fellow selling the Royal Oak Copy coins with the word "COPY" filed off?) for obvious fakes. But in reality, there's nothing you can do to prevent them from exercising their right to act stupidly and irresponsibly.
The name is LEE!
This makes the question invalid imho!
<< <i>You can vote more than once, which makes this survey meaningless. >>
Vote early - vote often
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Who cares.
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<< <i>I.m getting sick and tired of this question.
Who cares. >>
Many of us do care. People should care.
<< <i>
<< <i>I.m getting sick and tired of this question.
Who cares. >>
Many of us do care. People should care. >>
I care, but not as much about this one as you and a few other stalwarts do.
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Should Fantasy 1964-D Peace Dollars have the word “COPY?”
Posted on November 9, 2010 by Jaime Hernandez
On May 1965 the Denver Mint struck 316,076 – 1964-D Peace Dollars.
Several months later, the Coinage Act of 1965 was introduced. The Coinage Act would make it illegal to issue any Silver Dollars for circulation. Therefore, all 1964-D Peace Dollars had to be melted by law.
According to several Mint employees at the time, all 316,076 Genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars were melted. It was later confirmed that at least two examples were not melted, (even though Mint employees indicated that they were). Those two examples were then re-confirmed of being melted by Eva Adams, who was the Director of the U.S. Mint at the time.
There is speculation that additional Genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars also escaped the melting pot, as some employees were allowed to purchase the coins directly from the Mint. Additionally, there are rumors that Eva Adams sold a 1964-D Peace Dollar to a dealer at one time. In the past, Eva Adams is believed to have sold other coins not known to exist before, such as the 1964 Special Mint Set coins and others.
Recently, many 1964-D Peace Dollars were struck privately without the word “COPY” on them. If Genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars do exist, there is a possibility that Genuine examples might now be confused with the Fantasy 1964-D Peace Dollars that were privately struck just recently.
PCGS Blog Link
DCarr Online store under construction??
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Second, let us also understand that there are clear differences included in the fantasy coins by dcarr and he has publicly stated these variant portions of the design for all to know.
Enough said.
Cheers, RickO
<< <i>I truly believe a 1964 - D peace dollar/s do exist.
This makes the question invalid imho! >>
Well, I also believe in Santa - but that doesn't make it so.