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All the fraud happening to forum members lately
jm8787
Posts: 46
What's with it? Mail fraud for gold, bad checks, stolen payments.. What's going on lately????? Why is this happening to us? Can we be smarter to not let this happen anymore???? I'm so angry over this!!!
"URGENT MESSAGE --- Regarding BST Forum --- Please take some time to read this if you do business on the BST..."
"Member "wilskyy" (PLEASE READ)"
"Gold lost in mail! Seller sent uninsured/no tracking! What should I do? "
"Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks for coins"
"URGENT MESSAGE --- Regarding BST Forum --- Please take some time to read this if you do business on the BST..."
"Member "wilskyy" (PLEASE READ)"
"Gold lost in mail! Seller sent uninsured/no tracking! What should I do? "
"Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks for coins"
0
Comments
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Enjoy your stay.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
There is one case of a seller who did not insure a shipment and a buyer who has jumped the gun. That's not fraud. That's the sign of inexperience on both accounts.
<< <i>Just stay calm. Use your head. It'll be all right. >>
No. Lose your head. Panic. Cause choas. You will feel much better.
Fraud is easier here because people let their guard down.
You do not know who is really behind the keyboards.
the only scams that have been going on here is by Wilksyy on the BST and another forum where a guy wrote a $14,000 bad check
MANY positive BST Transactions
<< <i>What's with it? Mail fraud for gold, bad checks, stolen payments.. What's going on lately????? Why is this happening to us? Can we be smarter to not let this happen anymore???? I'm so angry over this!!!
"URGENT MESSAGE --- Regarding BST Forum --- Please take some time to read this if you do business on the BST..."
"Member "wilskyy" (PLEASE READ)"
"Gold lost in mail! Seller sent uninsured/no tracking! What should I do? "
"Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks for coins" >>
I think you are overreacting . The $14,000 bad check incident had nothing to do with the BST. And the "gold lost in the mail" doesn't appear to be anything other than a (possibly) lost package, for which the buyer and seller did not discuss insurance in advance of shipment. So we are left with one of the three transactions you mentioned.
However, in tough economic times some tough things can happen. Not everyone is feeling the pinch that many are feeling in today's economy... yet when some folks hit hard times, they unfortunately will sometimes make some bad choices... the best the rest of us can do is be vigilant and hope we make sound decisions that lead to safe and/or fruitful actions...
First guy was a flatout scam. Paypal finds in my favor.
Second guy was selling gold coins and then taking the money to purchase for his buyers (explains his 3 week delivery promise). Paypal Feedback showed all buyers happy until it got to me. I'm the one he ran out of coins and money with. Some people don't understand you can't run a successful ponzie in a bull market with prices rising. He just got caught with his pants down. Paypal finds in my favor.
Third guy was a professional thief and seemed to know the paypal ins and outs. Suspect he was an ex-employee who did reside in CA. I Bought $6 K from him, after which he would only communicate on the telephone (first red flag). I got a call from him shortly after purchase and payment where he informed me he was also gonna send me some other free coins from his grandfather's collection because he didn't want the hassle of selling them. Fine, I said, send them along. Then he informs not to panic when I got the first shipment cause it's gonna be the "free" coins which would be followed the next day with my $6K in eagles in a second shipment (second red flag). Next day I noticed he has attached the tracking number for the "free" coins to the paypal details page (The redest of the red flags). I figure out what was up; he was gonna get his proof of delivery with the cheap stuff to release the funds (low feedback seller) and not send the eagles. Although I could still file an "item as not described" it's his word against mine and experience has taught me that with this kind of dollar value paypal requires law enforcement involvement on my part with paperwork to back it up. Even then, winning an "item not as described" dispute can go either way. Since I have become buddies with the mail carrier (he even gave me his cell phone number so that when I miss a signature required shipment he can swing back by with it) and the fact that I take care of him at Christmas, I gave him a call. I met him at the mailbox on delivery day, refused the package and had it returned to sender. Package had no insurance, no signature confirmation but did have the delivery confirmation seller was hoping to use as proof of delivery. Because on-line tracking continued to show the item in transit I was unable to immediately open a claim on line. After calling paypal back until I got the answer I was looking for (four different agents), I found an employee who realized the potential loss to paypal. She immediately overroad the system, filed my claim at her end and did whatever they do to protect the funds until resolved (seller had low feedback, thus funds are not released until proof of delivery or postivie feedback). On the day of attempted delivery I called seller who informed me that he had been busy but was gonna get my actual purchase in the mail that day. I told him not to bother I was on to his scam, had refused delivery and requested the matter be turned over to a postal inspector as federal mail fraud, and suggested his best move would be to just make the refund. Seller has since layed low, didn't take my last call, not refunded the funds and has not repsonded to the paypal claim. Claim still open but looking good so far.
Be careful out there.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Unfortunately because of the sudden rise in PMs, the dragging economy and all the new unkowledgeable buyers fraud and theivery are rampart in a lot of coin purchasing venues. In just the last month I had to file 3 claims with ebay/paypal on gold eagle purchases.
First guy was a flatout scam. Paypal finds in my favor.
Second guy was selling gold coins and then taking the money to purchase for his buyers (explains his 3 week delivery promise). Paypal Feedback showed all buyers happy until it got to me. I'm the one he ran out of coins and money with. Some people don't understand you can't run a successful ponzie in a bull market with prices rising. He just got caught with his pants down. Paypal finds in my favor.
Third guy was a professional thief and seemed to know the paypal ins and outs. Suspect he was an ex-employee who did reside in CA. I Bought $6 K from him, after which he would only communicate on the telephone (first red flag). I got a call from him shortly after purchase and payment where he informed me he was also gonna send me some other free coins from his grandfather's collection because he didn't want the hassle of selling them. Fine, I said, send them along. Then he informs not to panic when I got the first shipment cause it's gonna be the "free" coins which would be followed the next day with my $6K in eagles in a second shipment (second red flag). Next day I noticed he has attached the tracking number for the "free" coins to the paypal details page (The redest of the red flags). I figure out what was up; he was gonna get his proof of delivery with the cheap stuff to release the funds (low feedback seller) and not send the eagles. Although I could still file an "item as not described" it's his word against mine and experience has taught me that with this kind of dollar value paypal requires law enforcement involvement on my part with paperwork to back it up. Even then, winning an "item not as described" dispute can go either way. Since I have become buddies with the mail carrier (he even gave me his cell phone number so that when I miss a signature required shipment he can swing back by with it) and the fact that I take care of him at Christmas, I gave him a call. I met him at the mailbox on delivery day, refused the package and had it returned to sender. Package had no insurance, no signature confirmation but did have the delivery confirmation seller was hoping to use as proof of delivery. Because on-line tracking continued to show the item in transit I was unable to immediately open a claim on line. After calling paypal back until I got the answer I was looking for (four different agents), I found an employee who realized the potential loss to paypal. She immediately overroad the system, filed my claim at her end and did whatever they do to protect the funds until resolved (seller had low feedback, thus funds are not released until proof of delivery or postivie feedback). On the day of attempted delivery I called seller who informed me that he had been busy but was gonna get my actual purchase in the mail that day. I told him not to bother I was on to his scam, had refused delivery and requested the matter be turned over to a postal inspector as federal mail fraud, and suggested his best move would be to just make the refund. Seller has since layed low, didn't take my last call, not refunded the funds and has not repsonded to the paypal claim. Claim still open but looking good so far.
Be careful out there. >>
FYI just a heads up you would have still won your claim, even with delivery confirmation, any item over $250 paypal requires signature Confirmation. So the dude was not that smart sending it with delivery confirmation only.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>What's with it? Mail fraud for gold, bad checks, stolen payments.. What's going on lately????? Why is this happening to us? Can we be smarter to not let this happen anymore???? I'm so angry over this!!!
"URGENT MESSAGE --- Regarding BST Forum --- Please take some time to read this if you do business on the BST..."
"Member "wilskyy" (PLEASE READ)"
"Gold lost in mail! Seller sent uninsured/no tracking! What should I do? "
"Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks for coins" >>
One of these has nothing to do with the BST, 2 are on the same guy, and one is for a 2nd person. So there are 2 people to currently worry about. It looks like wilskyy doesnt repond much so he may not even be around.
I dont find there to be a much of an concern right now. Same as always.
I have done many MANY deals here on the bst with no problems AT ALL. My feedback list contains over 50 different members with many multiple deals among some of them.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>jm8787, your new here, don't overreact. You have a much high chance of getting ripped off on ebay than on the bst.
I have done many MANY deals here on the bst with no problems AT ALL. My feedback list contains over 50 different members with many multiple deals among some of them. >>
+1
My wife claims to understand the entire US economy based on the number of cars at one local shoppping mail.
<< <i>Lots of fraud going on that doesn't get reported here.
My wife claims to understand the entire US economy based on the number of cars at one local shoppping mail. >>
she already knows more than most economists!
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Heckuva thread title for someone who's been a forum member for what, 3 weeks? I've had roughly 200 good transactions with close to 80 different forum members. Other than a few delayed payments and a couple of slow mailings, there have been no issues at all. Yes, every once in a while some fly by night person will pop in and try to pull something, but they are usually quickly spotted and 'outed' by all the regulars. This is a great place to do business, and you usually can get a lot of good information along with your coins, if you seek it. >>
just because i'm new here doesn't mean i'm not taking these latest happenings (all on the front page at the moment very seriously and am reacting to them)
<< <i>jm8787, your new here, don't overreact. You have a much high chance of getting ripped off on ebay than on the bst.
I have done many MANY deals here on the bst with no problems AT ALL. My feedback list contains over 50 different members with many multiple deals among some of them. >>
Or perhaps jm8787, isn't really new here but instead is a current/former member's ALT??
99% of my BST deals have been great too. and on the one that was bad I paid with a credit card via PayPal so I at least recovered all of my cash from the scumbag.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>Unfortunately because of the sudden rise in PMs, the dragging economy and all the new unkowledgeable buyers fraud and theivery are rampart in a lot of coin purchasing venues. In just the last month I had to file 3 claims with ebay/paypal on gold eagle purchases.
First guy was a flatout scam. Paypal finds in my favor.
Second guy was selling gold coins and then taking the money to purchase for his buyers (explains his 3 week delivery promise). Paypal Feedback showed all buyers happy until it got to me. I'm the one he ran out of coins and money with. Some people don't understand you can't run a successful ponzie in a bull market with prices rising. He just got caught with his pants down. Paypal finds in my favor.
Third guy was a professional thief and seemed to know the paypal ins and outs. Suspect he was an ex-employee who did reside in CA. I Bought $6 K from him, after which he would only communicate on the telephone (first red flag). I got a call from him shortly after purchase and payment where he informed me he was also gonna send me some other free coins from his grandfather's collection because he didn't want the hassle of selling them. Fine, I said, send them along. Then he informs not to panic when I got the first shipment cause it's gonna be the "free" coins which would be followed the next day with my $6K in eagles in a second shipment (second red flag). Next day I noticed he has attached the tracking number for the "free" coins to the paypal details page (The redest of the red flags). I figure out what was up; he was gonna get his proof of delivery with the cheap stuff to release the funds (low feedback seller) and not send the eagles. Although I could still file an "item as not described" it's his word against mine and experience has taught me that with this kind of dollar value paypal requires law enforcement involvement on my part with paperwork to back it up. Even then, winning an "item not as described" dispute can go either way. Since I have become buddies with the mail carrier (he even gave me his cell phone number so that when I miss a signature required shipment he can swing back by with it) and the fact that I take care of him at Christmas, I gave him a call. I met him at the mailbox on delivery day, refused the package and had it returned to sender. Package had no insurance, no signature confirmation but did have the delivery confirmation seller was hoping to use as proof of delivery. Because on-line tracking continued to show the item in transit I was unable to immediately open a claim on line. After calling paypal back until I got the answer I was looking for (four different agents), I found an employee who realized the potential loss to paypal. She immediately overroad the system, filed my claim at her end and did whatever they do to protect the funds until resolved (seller had low feedback, thus funds are not released until proof of delivery or postivie feedback). On the day of attempted delivery I called seller who informed me that he had been busy but was gonna get my actual purchase in the mail that day. I told him not to bother I was on to his scam, had refused delivery and requested the matter be turned over to a postal inspector as federal mail fraud, and suggested his best move would be to just make the refund. Seller has since layed low, didn't take my last call, not refunded the funds and has not repsonded to the paypal claim. Claim still open but looking good so far.
Be careful out there. >>
Being level headed makes this boring. There is no excitement. Letting emotions control thoughts is the way to go.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>What's with it? Mail fraud for gold, bad checks, stolen payments.. What's going on lately????? Why is this happening to us? Can we be smarter to not let this happen anymore???? I'm so angry over this!!!
"URGENT MESSAGE --- Regarding BST Forum --- Please take some time to read this if you do business on the BST..."
"Member "wilskyy" (PLEASE READ)"
"Gold lost in mail! Seller sent uninsured/no tracking! What should I do? "
"Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks for coins" >>
What is with ALL this? Scammers have been around since day 2. I think a lot of the problem is lack of moral, feeling of entitlement and the fact everthing cost so much. Healthcare, Insurance and taxes. I have monthly commitments of 10k to 22k a month, the first 15k is not to bad but the last 7k has gotten tougher and tougher to make.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I have to stop my wife from getting scammed about once a week.
Just this weekend she wanted to sign the kids up for acting auditions...a scam
Stick around. You will be surprised what can happen.
Actually, in most cases, I would like to know about these things and how they happened. It helps to make people aware and perhaps help to make both buyers and sellers a little more informed. It helps me in any case.
Larry
Dabigkahuna
I hope you visit the thread I started this morning ... I started it somewhat for you
As with anywhere, any place where significant amounts of money are involved (and sometimes even insignificant amounts) ... the potential for greed, dishonestly, total BS, and outright theivery ... can and (unfortuantely) almost always will exist
However, many of the active participants on this board are very upfront, honest and lacking any BS when dealing with the buying, selling and trading of our precious trinkets. I've sent coins before I had money in hand to members here ... and I've recieved them before my payment could have arrived and posted and the items then sent. There used to be talk of a Circle of Trust ...
Personally I wouldn't trade my honor for the trouble of even $100,000., and I doubt I am in the minority. Actually, I wouldn't trade my honor for any amount of money ...
I am a fairly trusting person however, so I try to make sure I remember that no deal is a good deal when I am dealing with someone I don't like / trust / or am otherwise uncomfortable with ... frankly, if I'm not comfortable, I don't have to buy or sell ... period.
I also believe that for every bad apple, there are at least two dozen good ones ... so using a little precaution probably prevents most problems ... and keeps the door open to lots of good experiences.
Stick around a bit and see ... this place can be pretty worthwhile
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>just because i'm new here doesn't mean i'm not taking these latest happenings (all on the front page at the moment very seriously and am reacting to them) >>
You're more than welcome to post any and all concerns here IMHO.
I hope your second month on the boards is more pleasant for you.
BTW, was this a BST transaction?
Text
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
If you choose to deal only with people who are active on the USCF, the risk has been virtually zero. The recent culprit is someone who had essentially no forum experience or references. IMO, it is unrealistic to expect to send money to someone in those circumstances and not get burned. Combine that with a too-good-to-be-true price, and it is not hard to see the deal was indeed too-good-to-be-true. C
I would much prefer to transact with a forum member, but, as always, common sense rules.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>Heckuva thread title for someone who's been a forum member for what, 3 weeks? I've had roughly 200 good transactions with close to 80 different forum members. Other than a few delayed payments and a couple of slow mailings, there have been no issues at all. Yes, every once in a while some fly by night person will pop in and try to pull something, but they are usually quickly spotted and 'outed' by all the regulars. This is a great place to do business, and you usually can get a lot of good information along with your coins, if you seek it. >>
just because i'm new here doesn't mean i'm not taking these latest happenings (all on the front page at the moment very seriously and am reacting to them) >>
OK, but you ARE in my opinion forming conclusions based upon a very small data set, then publically sharing your lack of knowlege in an emotionally charged manner.
The CF does a really good job of self-policing the activity on the BST. The other non-BST bad transactions the OP cites are not "frauds going on" on the Collectors Forum, however they do use the Collector's Forum (sic) to publicize them - and through that, offer a valuable service to the other members.
A minor edit to the thread title ("All the fraud going on in the world lately, some on the BST") would be appropriate.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I like dealing there but I am always leary about a new person and I always check out who I am sending money to by asking other forum members. Nothing is 100% but sure lowers the odds of making a costly mistake.
AL
<< <i>I re-titled the thread. sorry guys i just formed it wrong. >>
Well done! And FWIW, I agree 100%.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
You think a thief cares about honor? How ignorant of you LOL. All theives care about is a quick in & out...and when PCGS allows them to create a new account, all the better for them. The problem is PCGS allowing it to happen and then NOT provide info. that it DID happen, they leave it up to us to sort out. I talk about this on a thread on the BST forum whose author is waltcoins, may I suggest all read it. btw, waltscoins apparently is a shoot off of exactly what I am talking about...PCGS allowing a thief to simply create amother account when there is a way PCGS could prevent it.
Who cares if the OP is new. When fraud happens, I weigh what a newbie says equal to anyone with any amount of time here. It's FRAUD and reporting it is commendable. I wonder how much fraud goes on here that people are to embarassed to report???
My personal feeling is that BST listings should be limited to active PCGS members. Since PCGS maintains records of membership it would provide some type of traceability in the event of fraud. This would not prevent non PCGS members from making BST purchases.
FINALLY, someone who sees what the root of the problem is.
Edited for grammar issues lol
<< <i>Personally I wouldn't trade my honor for the trouble of even $100,000., and I doubt I am in the minority. Actually, I wouldn't trade my honor for any amount of money ...
You think a thief cares about honor? How ignorant of you LOL. All theives care about is a quick in & out...and when PCGS allows them to create a new account, all the better for them. The problem is PCGS allowing it to happen and then NOT provide info. that it DID happen, they leave it up to us to sort out. I talk about this on a thread on the BST forum whose author is waltcoins, may I suggest all read it. btw, waltscoins apparently is a shoot off of exactly what I am talking about...PCGS allowing a thief to simply create amother account when there is a way PCGS could prevent it.
Who cares if the OP is new. When fraud happens, I weigh what a newbie says equal to anyone with any amount of time here. It's FRAUD and reporting it is commendable. I wonder how much fraud goes on here that people are to embarassed to report???
My personal feeling is that BST listings should be limited to active PCGS members. Since PCGS maintains records of membership it would provide some type of traceability in the event of fraud. This would not prevent non PCGS members from making BST purchases.
FINALLY, someone who sees what the root of the problem is.
Edited for grammar issues lol >>
I looked on the BST forum and couldn't find a post by "waltcoins".
Edited to add: I just found "waltscoins", though.
<< <i>I wouldn't send money to anyone here that hasn't been here long enough for me to feel comfortable, and that I've seen complete many successful transactions. I never understood how some of you will send money (sometimes a lot) to a guy thats been here a month. >>
You're correct, my bad...waltScoins
<< <i>
<< <i>Just stay calm. Use your head. It'll be all right. >>
No. Lose your head. Panic. Cause choas. You will feel much better. >>
Isn't that what our government doing
I agree, even in the relatively short time ive been here. But with all the viruses on the site that continue to not be taken care of by PCGS and now fraud becoming more prevelant, id be all for only paying members using it. Here's why, it makes PCGS accountable for what is happening on THEIR site. Because if the problems continue when people are paying for piece of mind, guess what, people wont pay the fee when word gets out that nothings changed. So yeah, even with paying for it, fraud can still happen, but it minimizes it by only allowing memebrs who would be required to give some personal info. and be able to verify it.
So once and for all, will someone please answer this? Can a current member have an ALT? I'm told that former members (ID's that have been banned) can create new ones (which in my eyes promotes the potential for fraud), but can current members have more than one? And if so, how many?
I have asked this many time on the forums and even went as far as asking PCGS moderators...and no one has given me a clear and definitive answer. If it is allowed, man do I need to re-evaluate doing business here.
<< <i>Or perhaps jm8787, isn't really new here but instead is a current/former member's ALT??
So once and for all, will someone please answer this? Can a current member have an ALT? I'm told that former members (ID's that have been banned) can create new ones (which in my eyes promotes the potential for fraud), but can current members have more than one? And if so, how many?
I have asked this many time on the forums and even went as far as asking PCGS moderators...and no one has given me a clear and definitive answer. If it is allowed, man do I need to re-evaluate doing business here. >>
There have been numerous cases of alts here, some of whom have been discovered and re-booted.
<< <i>Or perhaps jm8787, isn't really new here but instead is a current/former member's ALT??
So once and for all, will someone please answer this? Can a current member have an ALT? I'm told that former members (ID's that have been banned) can create new ones (which in my eyes promotes the potential for fraud), but can current members have more than one? And if so, how many?
I have asked this many time on the forums and even went as far as asking PCGS moderators...and no one has given me a clear and definitive answer. If it is allowed, man do I need to re-evaluate doing business here. >>
Pretty simply, the answer is yes. Simple to understand that, right?
The issue comes into play if you ask "are they allowed?" That answer is "no".
There are always those who break the rules and are too good to follow rules. They have alts when they are active, or after they are banned. Makes them feel powerful and they tricked PCGS so they are smarter than others
Now, if they are discovered, they are routinely booted. When CarolJ was more active in policing the board, things went a bit smoother, imho, but I think she go tired of all the whining and worse, and likely asked to be excused from it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment