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New Roosevelt Dime variety found.....to be hits not a variety

DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
At least new to me. Anyone else having one or seen one please let us know.

Introducing the "Supertorch" and me, Jon, the very hopeful "Discoverer"! I Cherry Picked this recently and figured I would share my find with the forum.

This is obviously labeled incorrectly by our friends at NGC. It is labeled as a 1948 in MS 66 FT but I believe it to be a 1948-S MS 66 FT Supertorch variety. As you can see in the image there is an "S" in the torch 180 degrees from where it should be.

I sent a pic of my 1948 with "S" in torch to Bill Fivaz and he wants to see it.

I would like to thank fellow forum member (STONE) who suggested I call it "Supertorch" because there is a 1952 proof quarter with an "S" in the eagles breast that is called "Superbird".

I hope everyone enjoys it as much as I do. image

image
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Comments

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,815 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How cool, something else to search for.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like there are two of them. One that is obvious and one slightly to the right of it......IMO
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The mark to the right is just a small hit.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Congrats, Jon. Nice find.

    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,781 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The mark to the right is just a small hit. >>




    Wow, it sure looks like another, but your the one who has it in hand, congrat's!
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well done, sir! Long live Supertorch! image

    Greg
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    That is AWESOME!! I will say however, that I'm not convinced it's not simply a dropped letter or something. Fivaz will have to sort that out. Either way, it looks really freaking cool!!


    Congrats!!



    -Paul
  • TheRegulatorTheRegulator Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭
    Me likey!

    Actually, it looks a heckuva lot stronger than the so-called Superbird quarter.

    Nice job! image
    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it should be on the cover of Coin World, Numismatic News and all of those other publications so many of you talk about. image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 29,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This one's gotta go FT. image
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let me give you a major congrats on this one.
    That is ubber cool.
    I want one and I will look until I find one myself.
    Great job.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    it looks like a nick to me

    unless I am not looking the correct location


    can you circle it or place an arrow pointing to it for the unimaginative people like me?
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Let me give you a major congrats on this one.
    That is ubber cool.
    I want one and I will look until I find one myself.
    Great job. >>

    Good luck! It only took 62 years for this to be found! image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Let me give you a major congrats on this one.
    That is ubber cool.
    I want one and I will look until I find one myself.
    Great job. >>

    Good luck! It only took 62 years for this to be found! image >>



    But now it will be looked for.
    Just ask my kids how persistent I can be....
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • I don't buy it, looks like to convient hard nicks to me.
  • Hey I sold you that coin so does that mean I am part of the discovery team image
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you see nicks your looking at the wrong location.

    It is definitely a "S"
  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure people are looking at the 180, so look in the flame. the S is Plain as day, Congrat's on the super Torch
    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    looks like a dropped filling but if it is, theres little chance of finding another
    as the area would quickly become obliterated from normal die wear.
    so that coin may be unique for the most part
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭
    Wow! Exciting find!
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>looks like a dropped filling but if it is, theres little chance of finding another
    as the area would quickly become obliterated from normal die wear.
    so that coin may be unique for the most part >>



    This isn't an S mint coin and there are no other S's with that font size except maybe the designer initial on the obverse.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    that was my guess as to where the s came from
    it aint no mint mark thats for sure.

    so maybe there some `48 roosies with just a `j ` for the designers intials?
  • TextThis isn't an S mint coin and there are no other S's with that font size except maybe the designer initial on the obverse.

    I think you are correct, the "S" in the initials does match the size and the "S" in the torch is too small as compared to other "S" mintmarks, either way Jon.......NICE FIND...image
  • This content has been removed.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is the same shape "S" mint mark used it that time period, but it's hard to compare sizes.

    I will let Bill Fivaz see it and see what he says.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The "S" is raised, which means it was punched into the die, if my thinking is correct.

    What else would be punched into the die except for a mint mark?
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    I still vote dropped letter, probably from the designer's initials. This is way too obvious of a defect to not have been noticed yet if it was indeed a variety IMO.


    image



    -Paul
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 's' in the initials is a very different shape than the 's' mint mark in the torch, not sure why that is being discussed as a possibility.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The 's' in the initials is a very different shape than the 's' mint mark in the torch, not sure why that is being discussed as a possibility. >>




    The shape is only slightly different, which is to be expected given the way these dropped letters occur.


    -Paul
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they are very different. Here they are side by side. The 's' from the initials is very boxy. Regardless of outcome, I think it is very cool. I am not familiar with the "dropped letter" stuff. Never heard about it until tonight so I am clearly in unfamiliar territory. Can anyone provide a nice explanation of this term...how it happens etc? Thanks
    image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • 66RB66RB Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭
    keyman, how about rotating the 's from initial' 180 degrees...looks like maybe it would line up betterimage

    either way, still a very nice find and congrats dimeman!
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>keyman, how about rotating the 's from initial' 180 degrees...looks like maybe it would line up betterimage

    either way, still a very nice find and congrats dimeman! >>



    Here it is with the torch 's' rotated 180 degrees...still a very different 's' IMO.
    image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    I've had a couple people ask how a dropped letter happens, so I figured I'd just post it here. Now, I'm no expert, but here's my general understanding of it:

    Raised letters and devices, like the designers initials on this dime, are incuse in the die. When grease or other minting gunk gets clogged up in those letters and devices, sometimes they can become compacted and then fall onto the surface of an unstruck planchet. Then, when the dies come together, there is a incuse letter left on the finished coin.


    Feel free to add to or correct me on anything in there.



    -Paul
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Jon,

    Tough crowd.

    If you send it to Bill Fivaz, please use a mailer and seal it well.

    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, it's OK. Everybody is giving their opinion, which is what the thread is for. It could be a dropped letter, I guess. I will let Bill Fivaz see it and go from there.

    Whatever it is.......it sure is different. Would a drop letter be a variety or just another coin down the toilet!?
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey, it's OK. Everybody is giving their opinion, which is what the thread is for. It could be a dropped letter, I guess. I will let Bill Fivaz see it and go from there.

    Whatever it is.......it sure is different. Would a drop letter be a variety or just another coin down the toilet!? >>



    Jon,

    If a dropped letter it is still cool, just not as cool as if it is a misplaced mint mark. I hope it is a misplaced mint mark, and by you stating it is raised there is a good chance it is. A dropped letter should be flat.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My fingers are crossed for "Supertorch". image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dimeman, cool discovery. I had noticed that my 1948P had a 7 on the torch but figured it to be a photo anomaly. I had it photogaphed by Todd and it still seems to be there. Would be special were they both something other than a fluke.
    Jim

    image

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's cool to see everyones opinions on what the "s" or "s" shape is. However it plays out, it is a very cool find. I am interested in what Fivaz has to say. image
    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,525 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that's pretty neat, cool discovery!
  • Great find.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can tell from the way that the light falls on the small S in question that it is raised on the coin. Compare it to the first S of STATES.

    A dropped letter would be incused in the coin. This is not a dropped letter. I do not know what it is, but I do know that it is not a dropped letter.

    TD
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Super cool, and a great discovery!image
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This looks very cool. Congrats!
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>looks like a dropped filling but if it is, theres little chance of finding another
    as the area would quickly become obliterated from normal die wear.
    so that coin may be unique for the most part >>



    I'm with Cam on this.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    From the other thread on the state quarter with a dropped letter.
    It is incuse.
    image
    Jon's Supertorch show a raised letter.
    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The dropped letter on the quarter is incuse. See how the light falls IN it.
    The letter-like object on the dime is raised. See how the light falls ON it.
    TD
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭

    The so called "S" is way to small to be a miss placed mint mark. I don't know what it is but I'm pretty
    sure it's not an MPM. Still a cool find.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting... sure seems to be something that occurred at the mint.... please be sure to let us know the final determination. Cheers, RickO

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