The answer for me is simple. With all the great coins out there that I would like to own some day, I don't want thousands of dollars tied up in this stuff. Most First Ladies do not deserve to have a commemorative coin issued for them. Some of them were great people, but others were not. Why should they all get a commemorative coin?
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Another teensy weensy difference is that the $5 JR is that it also commemorates baseball milestone and one of the few coins with black Americans on them. The other one that nobody on these boards seems to get is that the dispersion of these coins from 12 years ago was much broader and not just hoards of them held by flippers.
I have no idea why these factors are always ignored when comparing First Hags to it. The same is true to some extent with the 2004 $50 Proof plat when you see topics like "2008 Proof $50 (or any of the other denoms) are the new king".
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I like and have the 2007-W Jefferson but never was interested in the whole series. Mainly because I didn't want to afford them. I bought the 2008-W Jackson but returned it, Libertys lips looked like she had kissed a bee hive. Van Buren the nose. Hope the 2010 Liberty looks good. Can't wait for Jackie Oh my my my.
I have bought and will continue to buy one of each issue until the set is complete as long as I can still afford it. I don't know why though. I teeter on the verge of thinking it will eventually pay off or it will not. In the end, I don't think you can go wrong collecting them all. Are there better buys? Probably. But what are the odds that I'll end up making the "better" purchase?
I like the challenge and I will like the accomplishment of actually obtaining the entire set... ~40oz of gold acquired 1oz every 3 months will be quite a stash.
Yea, better than blowing it at McDonald's or buying a bunch of crap for the house. I like to think that when I buy a lot of the crap I do, "at least I got a chunk of gold (or platinum)".
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>So far I've bought all of the 2007 and 2008 releases, both proof and uncirculated. I've also bough an extra set of each of the Liberty coins:
Haven't bought any of the 2009 coins yet, still on the fence whether I want to keep dedicating $4k-$6k a year on this set or use that money for real coins Mostly started this set because I wanted to start adding some gold to my collection and thought it would be much more fun and could potentially be more valuable than those boring Gold Eagles... I still think that is the case. >>
Very cool looking set. I've never seen them in one place before. Thanks for posting!!
<< <i>>>The First Spouses on the other hand will all have those 4,000 mintages. All the same amounts. All the same relative grades. All the same boring designs. All issued on a regular basis and all sell outs (eventually or dang near close to it.)<<
The designs are not all boring, especially those in the non-spouse "liberty" short set. And only about 12,000 each of the Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins were sold before the Mint's cutoff dates, which is far from a "sell out" - mintage limit was 40,000 for each coin.
>>Additionally, some of those earlier commemorative sales were not fueled by the "Internet Age" along with the "Internet Hype". Therefore sales reflected truely what folks wanted and not what folks figured they could flip for a profit.<<
There were plenty of bubbles before the Internet. The BU roll frenzy in 1963-64 is an excellent example. 1950-D nickels were fetching as much as $1200 per roll. ($7500 in today's dollars!)
Today the Jackie Robinson unc. $5 is selling at more than 10x issue price. Does this mean that its popularity has multiplied by a factor of 10 since 1997? I doubt if anyone is buying the JR today to flip for a quick profit.
>>Low mintages are meaningless unless folks actually want the coins and are willing to pay that low mintage premium. Since all the First Spouse coins are low mintage and everybody that wants one pretty much has one, the only differentiating factor will be the slab grade.<<
Low mintages, by themselves, are attractive to many collectors. That's why many of them acquire "trophy" coins (such as the 1909-S VDB cent) even if they don't otherwise collect the series. The Jackie Robinson unc. $5 gold was on sale for six months, so everyone that wanted one pretty much had one. However, after the low mintage was revealed, many more collectors suddenly "wanted" one - precisely because the low mintage made the coin much more desirable.
A decade from now, the same may be true for the scarcer First Spouse gold coins. >>
You're right! I don't know what I was thinking with that 4,000 figure. 40,000 each sounds a lot better.
As with anything the US Mint produces, its only real value occurs after the products are no longer available. (For the last time I mean since "no longer available" isn;t finalized until the end of year blow out.) While these coins do attract interest, they just don't interest me as I'm just not willing to gamble $2,400 a year on them. Whoops, make that $4,800+ including the proof versions.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Skipped reading anything about this thread. But if we are talkin about 1st or 2nd or even 3rd wives. I think that it should be called justified divorce by means of a gun or hand grenade!
I really luv all my exs as long as they are 6+ ft Away from me.
I'm way down in south (Brazil) so I was caught offguard by the Jackson proof sellout. I had planned on buying the unc when I got back home. Internet is a bit splotchy but I was able to get an unc. Still rethinking the series...I believe the only continuing "W" gold coins. R95
I bought Jefferson's Liberty for the Draped Bust design. Ended up selling it because the original half cents display much sharper details of hand engraving, as opposed to the overly smooth CNC engraved hubs for the gold bullion coins.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
<< <i>I bought Jefferson's Liberty for the Draped Bust design. Ended up selling it because the original half cents display much sharper details of hand engraving, as opposed to the overly smooth CNC engraved hubs for the gold bullion coins. >>
I agree, I wish the mint attempted the old-school finish like they did with the Buffalo gold.
It's less than two weeks until the final Lib goes on sale, who will slab them in 4-coin sets? Which brings me to the question, do you send in individually graded Libs to make a cohesive 69 or 70 set?
Haven't changed my mind, I liked the series last year and still do. The Spouses have generated considerable excitement with the ultra-low mintages of the Tylers, the impending completion of the Liberty subset and the upcoming Mary Todd Lincoln coin. I expect the popularity of the series will continue to rise.
The only thing I've had to rethink is how to pay for them. I have been in it since the beginning, and am hoping to buy both the unc and proof for each. I still think they have great potential, love the variety, quite a few of the designs are actually good, and I can only see these picking up interest over the years. I do not think the future of these coins is just old white guys, women are coming on strong, there will be a women president in my lifetime, and wealthy women will eventually be attracted to this set. And, last but not least, I do not think there are many politicians that will deny the eventual placement of very popular women like Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. Yes, I know they aren't included as the series is progressing right now, but a bill will be introduced, and I don't think too many politicians will kiss off women votes by voting against it. Then you have a whole new ballgame.
And last but not least, they sure look pretty all together.
I like the Uncirculated Jackson, Van Buren, and Julia Tyler. I think the L. Tyler isn't a bad option if it's cheap enough. Of course, that's all my opinion.
This series is an interesting opportunity for the contrarian, given the strong negative reactions it's continued to have.
It'll be interesting to dig up this thread from the archives years down the road.
As for me, I've been acquring the set as issued, and leaving them in their boxes with the attitude and compulsions of a collector. I don't disagree that there are likely better investment places to put the money, but the "investor" in me draws solace from the "at least it's gold" aspect.
Some of the most valuable mint issues were unpopular when released. I don't doubt there won't be a bit of that with this series. The only concern is that the completed collection, due to its size, will be a monster.
Looks like one of our forum members got in early and multiply.
Miles >>
Miles, it was for real, got both a proof and uncirculated from this seller, received them both today. He listed a couple more today, they only last a few hours when he puts them on.
He's got some Letitia's left -- good price too. Won't last long...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
I have changed my mind on an earlier post about the Liberties. I will be collecting them in PCGS FS MS 70s. I acquired a Van Buren Liberty a few months ago and will buy 5 each PF and MS of the last Liberty next week.
I bought all the representaions of liberty in Unc. so far that's 4. My thinking these may gain popularity in the future. Are there any other Presidents that held office without a spouse?
How is the quality? The pricing suuprises me. And I would imagine, much pleases you!!
Miles >>
Thanks! They look perfect to me, although I'm sure these didn't meet their criteria for 70's. Or possibly they buy from another dealer who has gone through them, as they don't seem to sell graded examples. At any rate, I'm pleased!
<< <i>Is the mintage of the Buchanan Liberty going to drop from 40K to 15K total - Proof and Unc combined? >>
Yes 15K for all 2010 issues except Mary Lincoln; M. Lincoln will have a limit of 20K. >>
And I don't think either will come close to their max mintage. I'm surprised they set a higher limited for Mary Todd Lincoln. Do you really think more people are going to collect this coin because she was married to Honest Abe?? I doubt it. I know there are tons of people out there that collect all things Lincoln, but I'm not sure that will include laying out $750-$1500 for gold coins honoring his wife. I could understand a higher max mintage for a First Spouse who was really famous in her own right and has her own collector base (like Jackie Kennedy), but I'm guessing there won't be too many extra people online ordering this Mary Lincoln coin on release day. Perhaps of they put Abe along with her on the reverse, but they didn't even do that. I'm thinking the Buchanan Liberty coin will sell more than Mary Lincoln.
this was in response to a board member who asked me why i collected spouses just about a year ago (12/09).....
just my 2 cents on the spouses....ready...
ok jackie came out in 97 and the USM begged everyone to buy it....every piece of literature you got from the USM had something about this stupid jackie coin on it....yet not many people bought it....ok...it was a dog....the whole coin community laughed at it for years...too small...too this...to that....fast forward about 4-5 years later....audited #s come out and BANG it was all of a sudden the best thing since sliced bread and bottled beer.... price goes to the moon and there is a mass scramble....no supply....yet the USM BEGGED PEOPLE TO BUY IT....
do you get where i am going here????
i remember when i started this set and you said....fast forward 10+ years....it would be really cool to have this complete set....
lets face it....the spouses right now are in the coin collecting DOG HOUSE.....no one wants them...but here is what i think about the spouses...
truly low mintage really no problem acquiring them in 70s at really cost + a couple of bucks i like the gold concept .....its a cheap way to acquire 24K and have tremendous numismatic upside NO ONE LIKES THEM NOW....that means someday someone will have wished they bought them at $700 a crack just like the 08 Buffalos....
so i like my set...3 years in...i have really no downside only upside....
I`m In the first spouses since day one. Low mintages will make them popular. When the Jackie Kennedy coin comes out, it will draw a lot of attention to all spouses. Just Imagine the reverse of her coin with a scene from dallas that day.
<< lets face it....the spouses right now are in the coin collecting DOG HOUSE.....no one wants them.. >>
Not so much the case anymore - Julia Tyler is fetching over $1800 in PCGS MS70, and higher with the First Strike designation. I think that the extremely low mintages are causing collectors to take a second look at the series.
Comments
<< <i>Anyone have the latest unofficial mintage figures for these hags? >>
latest mint stats thread
I have no idea why these factors are always ignored when comparing First Hags to it. The same is true to some extent with the 2004 $50 Proof plat when you see topics like "2008 Proof $50 (or any of the other denoms) are the new king".
Well, just Love coins, period.
Please, JMO....thank you.
I like the challenge and I will like the accomplishment of actually obtaining the entire set... ~40oz of gold acquired 1oz every 3 months will be quite a stash.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>So far I've bought all of the 2007 and 2008 releases, both proof and uncirculated. I've also bough an extra set of each of the Liberty coins:
Haven't bought any of the 2009 coins yet, still on the fence whether I want to keep dedicating $4k-$6k a year on this set or use that money for real coins
Very cool looking set. I've never seen them in one place before. Thanks for posting!!
<< <i>>>The First Spouses on the other hand will all have those 4,000 mintages. All the same amounts. All the same relative grades. All the same boring designs. All issued on a regular basis and all sell outs (eventually or dang near close to it.)<<
The designs are not all boring, especially those in the non-spouse "liberty" short set. And only about 12,000 each of the Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins were sold before the Mint's cutoff dates, which is far from a "sell out" - mintage limit was 40,000 for each coin.
>>Additionally, some of those earlier commemorative sales were not fueled by the "Internet Age" along with the "Internet Hype". Therefore sales reflected truely what folks wanted and not what folks figured they could flip for a profit.<<
There were plenty of bubbles before the Internet. The BU roll frenzy in 1963-64 is an excellent example. 1950-D nickels were fetching as much as $1200 per roll. ($7500 in today's dollars!)
Today the Jackie Robinson unc. $5 is selling at more than 10x issue price. Does this mean that its popularity has multiplied by a factor of 10 since 1997? I doubt if anyone is buying the JR today to flip for a quick profit.
>>Low mintages are meaningless unless folks actually want the coins and are willing to pay that low mintage premium. Since all the First Spouse coins are low mintage and everybody that wants one pretty much has one, the only differentiating factor will be the slab grade.<<
Low mintages, by themselves, are attractive to many collectors. That's why many of them acquire "trophy" coins (such as the 1909-S VDB cent) even if they don't otherwise collect the series. The Jackie Robinson unc. $5 gold was on sale for six months, so everyone that wanted one pretty much had one. However, after the low mintage was revealed, many more collectors suddenly "wanted" one - precisely because the low mintage made the coin much more desirable.
A decade from now, the same may be true for the scarcer First Spouse gold coins. >>
You're right! I don't know what I was thinking with that 4,000 figure. 40,000 each sounds a lot better.
As with anything the US Mint produces, its only real value occurs after the products are no longer available. (For the last time I mean since "no longer available" isn;t finalized until the end of year blow out.) While these coins do attract interest, they just don't interest me as I'm just not willing to gamble $2,400 a year on them. Whoops, make that $4,800+ including the proof versions.
The name is LEE!
But if we are talkin about 1st or 2nd or even 3rd wives.
I think that it should be called justified divorce by means of a gun or hand grenade!
I really luv all my exs as long as they are 6+ ft Away from me.
<< <i>Wait til tommorow and google BING Cashback, that may help you get closer to melt. >>
I picked up this UNC 07 Jefferson's Liberty on eBay for $453.20 after cashback. To top it all off, the cashback was instant. BING-O!
R95
<< <i>I bought Jefferson's Liberty for the Draped Bust design. Ended up selling it because the original half cents display much sharper details of hand engraving, as opposed to the overly smooth CNC engraved hubs for the gold bullion coins. >>
I agree, I wish the mint attempted the old-school finish like they did with the Buffalo gold.
(is it reflecting "modern tastes" ??)
I dunno, but I do like sharp details, too.
Have you changed your mind?
It's less than two weeks until the final Lib goes on sale, who will slab them in 4-coin sets? Which brings me to the question, do you send in individually graded Libs to make a cohesive 69 or 70 set?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
And last but not least, they sure look pretty all together.
Edit: Spelling
It'll be interesting to dig up this thread from the archives years down the road.
As for me, I've been acquring the set as issued, and leaving them in their boxes with the attitude and compulsions of a collector. I don't disagree that there are likely better investment places to put the money, but the "investor" in me draws solace from the "at least it's gold" aspect.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
http://ProofCollection.Net
Was that for real?
Looks like one of our forum members got in early and multiply.
Miles
<< <i>WOW Gold Julia at LOW Price!!
Was that for real?
Looks like one of our forum members got in early and multiply.
Miles >>
Miles, it was for real, got both a proof and uncirculated from this seller, received them both today. He listed a couple more today, they only last a few hours when he puts them on.
How is the quality? The pricing suuprises me. And I would imagine, much pleases you!!
Miles
He's got some Letitia's left -- good price too. Won't last long...
Box of 20
My thinking these may gain popularity in the future.
Are there any other Presidents that held office without a spouse?
Are there any other Presidents that held office without a spouse? >>
No, this is the last one. Thats why a short set of 4 non-spouse will be available for collectors.
I have proofs of the 1st 3.
<< <i>Congrats!
How is the quality? The pricing suuprises me. And I would imagine, much pleases you!!
Miles >>
Thanks! They look perfect to me, although I'm sure these didn't meet their criteria for 70's. Or possibly they buy from another dealer who has gone through them, as they don't seem to sell graded examples. At any rate, I'm pleased!
<< <i>Is the mintage of the Buchanan Liberty going to drop from 40K to 15K total - Proof and Unc combined? >>
Yes 15K for all 2010 issues except Mary Lincoln; M. Lincoln will have a limit of 20K.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is the mintage of the Buchanan Liberty going to drop from 40K to 15K total - Proof and Unc combined? >>
Yes 15K for all 2010 issues except Mary Lincoln; M. Lincoln will have a limit of 20K. >>
And I don't think either will come close to their max mintage. I'm surprised they set a higher limited for Mary Todd Lincoln. Do you really think more people are going to collect this coin because she was married to Honest Abe?? I doubt it. I know there are tons of people out there that collect all things Lincoln, but I'm not sure that will include laying out $750-$1500 for gold coins honoring his wife. I could understand a higher max mintage for a First Spouse who was really famous in her own right and has her own collector base (like Jackie Kennedy), but I'm guessing there won't be too many extra people online ordering this Mary Lincoln coin on release day. Perhaps of they put Abe along with her on the reverse, but they didn't even do that. I'm thinking the Buchanan Liberty coin will sell more than Mary Lincoln.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
just my 2 cents on the spouses....ready...
ok jackie came out in 97 and the USM begged everyone to buy it....every piece of literature you got from the USM had something about this stupid jackie coin on it....yet not many people bought it....ok...it was a dog....the whole coin community laughed at it for years...too small...too this...to that....fast forward about 4-5 years later....audited #s come out and BANG it was all of a sudden the best thing since sliced bread and bottled beer.... price goes to the moon and there is a mass scramble....no supply....yet the USM BEGGED PEOPLE TO BUY IT....
do you get where i am going here????
i remember when i started this set and you said....fast forward 10+ years....it would be really cool to have this complete set....
lets face it....the spouses right now are in the coin collecting DOG HOUSE.....no one wants them...but here is what i think about the spouses...
truly low mintage
really no problem acquiring them in 70s at really cost + a couple of bucks
i like the gold concept .....its a cheap way to acquire 24K and have tremendous numismatic upside
NO ONE LIKES THEM NOW....that means someday someone will have wished they bought them at $700 a crack just like the 08 Buffalos....
so i like my set...3 years in...i have really no downside only upside....
in 2010 my opinion remains the same.....
gyros
Not so much the case anymore - Julia Tyler is fetching over $1800 in PCGS MS70, and higher with the First Strike designation. I think that the extremely low mintages are causing collectors to take a second look at the series.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
