First Spouse: Has anyone rethought this series?

renman95

Obviously I have. Now that the recent "ladies" have numbers around 4,000+ for the uncirculated version and 7,000+ for the proof version I am rethinking this series. However, they are being sold at about $1,250 a full ounce. This could be a series that has great potential a few years down the road when the "ladies" names become more familiar. Meanwhile one could pick up some low mintage coins for a "bit" over melt.

R95

rgCoinGuy

Wait til tommorow and google BING Cashback, that may help you get closer to melt.

Bochiman

Yeah, I rethought it and glad I am not doing them.
I wouldn't want to tie that much money up for as long as it may take for them to come around.

Too much over spot for a "nothing" series right now.
Very few of them are appealing, and not at the premium.

TomB

What would concern me about these apparently key issues would be if a number of issues had similar mintage numbers. If that were the case, then there would be no clear cut key to the series and I think it would suppress all their values.

Rarity

I decided not to collect these because the Mint price is too high and most coins do not look attractive. If the demand is low, regardless of the mintage, the price appreciation may not be there.

Overdate

The actual future keys are likely to be found in the non-spouse "Liberty" short set, even if the mintage figures are a bit higher than those for the Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins.

MsMorrisine

I'm getting a couple of each and re-think them all the time.


Names become more familiar?

Hmmmm.... maybe to about 7,000 of us...


will there be a premium on a full set or maybe a discount?

I wonder who's going to buy a full set. As some have pointed out, there will be popular ones (e.g. Jackie Kennedy), and the rest? sleepers?


Then recently, in a week's time, I received two inquiries about MW and/or AA coins. It seems those inquiring came in late to the game.



What does the future hold?


It's going to be an expensive set, even if gold falls back to pre-rally prices in the neighborhood of even $300-$400.

I'll probably stay in for the long haul, but track the market for them individually, and maybe as a set, just in case they absolutely must be sold.

CollectorMan

Too much money to tie up in this series. I much prefer the one-year only, 2009 UHR coin. The coin itself, is a piece of art. The packaging and booklet, while some may think extreme, is superb. I think years down the line, it will be one gold coin readily sought after. I have decided not to have mine graded. I'll leave it as is.

illini420

So far I've bought all of the 2007 and 2008 releases, both proof and uncirculated. I've also bough an extra set of each of the Liberty coins:



Haven't bought any of the 2009 coins yet, still on the fence whether I want to keep dedicating $4k-$6k a year on this set or use that money for real coins Mostly started this set because I wanted to start adding some gold to my collection and thought it would be much more fun and could potentially be more valuable than those boring Gold Eagles... I still think that is the case.

DieClash

I'm collecting the short-set "Liberty" spouse coins. I believe that the James Buchanon Liberty "spouse" coin is the last in this series. The short set has a lot going for it, in that the coins in the series do not depict a once-living Presidential spouse, but rather the effigy of Lady Liberty circulating on coins of the time.

And because there are only 5 coins in this set it is easy to assemble in both Unc. and Proof gold.

illini420

<< <i>
And because there are only 5 coins in this set it is easy to assemble in both Unc. and Proof gold. >>



I've got the Jefferson's Liberty, the Jackson's Liberty and the Van Buren's Liberty... I know there will be a Buchanan's Liberty (would love it to be the IHC obverse design!!!!!!!!). But who will the 5th be?? I thought there would only be 4 of them.

fcloud

I'd like to, but just too rich for me.

I was going to do all the non spouse first spouse and started with the Jefferson, and that wound up being the only one I have.

GRANDAM

PM me when Jackie O comes out

jessewvu

Yeah, I started rethinking them after the VB came out. Have not purchased one since. I realized that I couldn't keep up with the series so I decided to only keep the liberty coins.

MsMorrisine

well, the graded as *69* 2009's are going for under release price on eBay.


there's one way to play.

stinkinlincoln

I have to agree with Tom.

Even though they have some low mintages, these coins will never circulate, and will all be top condition.

Id love to have a proof format set of these one day, but not at current prices. Id rather buy some coins.

2manycoins2fewfunds

I'm afraid the whole series smacks of Franklin Mint.

GAT

<< <i>

<< <i>
And because there are only 5 coins in this set it is easy to assemble in both Unc. and Proof gold. >>



I've got the Jefferson's Liberty, the Jackson's Liberty and the Van Buren's Liberty... I know there will be a Buchanan's Liberty (would love it to be the IHC obverse design!!!!!!!!). But who will the 5th be?? I thought there would only be 4 of them. >>


Alice Paul (a women libber) will be on the Chester Arthur coin.

ElKevvo

Too rich for me now and will always be too rich for most collectors. That being said there will always be plenty of ultra high grade coins to fill demand.

K

sspat

<< <i>Wait til tommorow and google BING Cashback, that may help you get closer to melt. >>



Why not BING BING Cashback?

renman95

<< <i>The actual future keys are likely to be found in the non-spouse "Liberty" short set, even if the mintage figures are a bit higher than those for the Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins. >>



I still tend to agree with this. It would make a beautiful multi-coin slab.

I'm collecting the Spouse medal series for now...low impact.

Anyone know if there are more medal collectors than gold collectors of this series?

R95

silverdollarfitz

I like the ones without the first ladies on them. The ones that didn't have wifes in office. Those look appealing to me... don't care about the ladies. I don't have the money to spend on solid gold coins... but they look nice.

GAT

I have been collecting 10 of the liberties and 3 of the other medals. I bought the first 3 gold proofs but decided the premiums where too high for the following issues.

HalfStrike

Pictures of spouses

Not sure but Mary Lincoln next year, then not much until 2013 or 2014.

Alice Paul should be a dud considering she shouldn't be in the series so she may be the low mintage bottom.

mumu

"HANNAH HOES VAN BUREN" Lol...She kinda hot tho.

Konahead

<< <i>I'm collecting the short-set "Liberty" spouse coins. I believe that the James Buchanon Liberty "spouse" coin is the last in this series. The short set has a lot going for it, in that the coins in the series do not depict a once-living Presidential spouse, but rather the effigy of Lady Liberty circulating on coins of the time.

And because there are only 5 coins in this set it is easy to assemble in both Unc. and Proof gold. >>



I am just sticking to the short set in Unc and Proof. No interest in the rest, nor would I tie up that much cash. I would rather have 10 UHR.

mbogoman

Me, too - just the lady Liberties in PR and UNC. A nice, compact 8 coin set. After Buchanan's Liberty, it's done, finished, over for the set.

tydye

I thought about it but for me it is too much money tied up. If I had the extra funds I would do these in proof. I tend to like them especially the liberty ones.

RYK

I have thought, rethought, and rerethought. The only way this series makes sense to me is if you can buy the coins at a small premium to melt.

jmski52

See all the comments above. Those are the reasons that the mintages will remain low - long, expensive series. The most popular wives will have higher mintages, such as Jackie K. The Liberty Set will continue to generate interest over the years.

At some point, a few new collectors with money will take a bite of this series, so I expect that the mintages will reach an equilibrium at some point, but I think that the ultimate low mintage pieces are still to come (probably in the near future) as interest continues to wane overall.

Nevertheless, if there is "extra" money to invest I can see paying the Mint's price of entry from time to time as a speculation in gold because over the long haul, these will remain a difficult set - and over time the stale taste of Congress's out-of-control actions in authorizing this set in the first place - will slowly fade. Sooner or later, full set collectors will start to appear.

I bought multiples of the Jackson and Van Buren Liberties, because I like the classic designs. I may go back and pick up a like number of the Jefferson Liberty if the cash becomes available and other priorities don't intercede.

ttown

It's too long of a series, too many low mintages, ulgy to all get out. I'd collect them as a bullion item but really the Platinum series is a much better modern series of 12 years and nice desgins. If I was to rethink anything it would be to build that series.

The demand just isn't there. Hey I like the old seated and barber proof too and those blow your socks off with those mintage but they aren't hot even after 100+ years and there demand for the bussiness strikes in those series. Upside ---a bet on gold IMO.

mkman123

look at some of the past medals, they go for near melt and some have low mintages..........I'm afraid this may end up like that.

rgCoinGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>Wait til tommorow and google BING Cashback, that may help you get closer to melt. >>



Why not BING BING Cashback? >>





Good point!

DeepCoin

I think there may be some long term potential for parts of this set. As many have said, the non spouse Liberty coins are the most attractive and comprise a short set. Of course these don't circulate and will always be in pristine condition. That is true of all modern commemorative.

Look at the price of the $5 Capitol Visitors Center Unc gold coin and compare that pricing to the First Ladies.

I may go on the 'Bay and acquire some secondary market coins for less than the release price. Much will depend upon the price of gold.

19Lyds

As soon as the US Mint raised the price of these "babes" I re-thought it!

IMO, since these are modern "bullion" collectibles, the only possible way they will be worth anything is in an MS/PR70 slab. Those coins and ONLY those will fetch some healthy premiums but their MS/PR69 sisters will only be considered bullion. Why?

Well, for starters, 4,000/7,000 is a lot of coins. Each one is high grade (so there's never really a hunt, its just a question of which one) and since an MS69 will never command much more over melt, they just won't be considered a serious collectible.

Sure, it would be nice to have the complete series and I think many are on that path but when things get tight and money is needed, these will be the first out the door.
IMO, thats simply inventory and not really a collection.

renman95

<< <i>I think there may be some long term potential for parts of this set. As many have said, the non spouse Liberty coins are the most attractive and comprise a short set. Of course these don't circulate and will always be in pristine condition. That is true of all modern commemorative.

Look at the price of the $5 Capitol Visitors Center Unc gold coin and compare that pricing to the First Ladies.

I may go on the 'Bay and acquire some secondary market coins for less than the release price. Much will depend upon the price of gold. >>



/

And while you are at it, look at the 1997 W $5 Jackie Robinson coin with 5,174 coins! A few of the Unc Spouses are already lower in mintage than JR and the designs are just as un-inspiring.

R95

BECOKA

When they were around $400 at the beginning I had every intention of completing the series but with the ups and downs of the gold market since I have sold everything I have. No intention of obtaining any more unless it is at melt.

I used all the funds up on adding to my Classic Head set which for now is much more satisfying.

pf70collector

I have decided not to collect the series, not even the Liberties. It just got too expensive. I will collect the presidential/spouse medal sets offered by the U.S. Mint though. They seem to sell out very quickly also.

astrostu

What others have said about the cost, the length, and the ugliness -- come on, the designs this year are just bad. I am doing the short-short set of the Liberties (4 coins, not 5), which I can complete next year.

I was considering collecting, in addition, ones that I really liked or had significant historic importance, such as the Dolly Madison one saving lots of stuff from the White House during the War of 1812, but when I didn't get that coin, I kinda set myself up for not doing this. I still may, such as for Lemonade Lucy or Eleanor Roosevelt, but we'll see.

Overdate

>>IMO, since these are modern "bullion" collectibles, the only possible way they will be worth anything is in an MS/PR70 slab. Those coins and ONLY those will fetch some healthy premiums but their MS/PR69 sisters will only be considered bullion. Why?

Well, for starters, 4,000/7,000 is a lot of coins. Each one is high grade (so there's never really a hunt, its just a question of which one) and since an MS69 will never command much more over melt, they just won't be considered a serious collectible.<<

I would be interested to know the reasoning behind your conclusion that 4,000/7,000 is a lot of coins, and MS/PR69 First Spouse coins will only be considered bullion. The Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins are the lowest mintage modern commemorative gold coins to date. Both the MS/PR69 Jackie Robinson and MS69 Capitol Visitor Center gold sell for *way* above bullion price. Ditto for the MS69 2006-W unc. Platinum Eagles, which are much less popular than commemorative gold.

ttown

All the gold comms have dropped way below any price guide:

Here's on I purchased and it's a very nice set:

2001 US CAPITOL COMMEMORATIVE 3 COIN GOLD PROOF SET
Sale date: 07/16/09
Tracking number: -- $286.00

Even the JR is way way below the price guide on the proof about $550ish. I haven't seen an unc sell for stupid money so I can't say on that one.

92vette

4000/7000 coins is not alot of coins considering the relatively low initial price. THese low mintage spouses will find pretty strong hands fairly quickly. Personally I think whatever coin ends up being the key will beat the J Robinson in appreciation, and as it sits the L adams unc. at 4223 sets a pretty low bar. I don't see any going far below that but I am buying as they come out just in case.

ttown

<< <i>4000/7000 coins is not alot of coins considering the relatively low initial price. THese low mintage spouses will find pretty strong hands fairly quickly. Personally I think whatever coin ends up being the key will beat the J Robinson in appreciation, and as it sits the L adams unc. at 4223 sets a pretty low bar. I don't see any going far below that but I am buying as they come out just in case. >>



Gold will over take most of these coins as they hit the melting pot just like 79/80. The longer it last the more melted. Come out of that and a lot of common material may be very hard to find in the future.

renman95

<< <i>All the gold comms have dropped way below any price guide:

Here's on I purchased and it's a very nice set:

2001 US CAPITOL COMMEMORATIVE 3 COIN GOLD PROOF SET
Sale date: 07/16/09
Tracking number: -- $286.00

Even the JR is way way below the price guide on the proof about $550ish. I haven't seen an unc sell for stupid money so I can't say on that one. >>



/

True for the proofs in question but the uncs are still compelling.

R95

19Lyds

<< <i>>>IMO, since these are modern "bullion" collectibles, the only possible way they will be worth anything is in an MS/PR70 slab. Those coins and ONLY those will fetch some healthy premiums but their MS/PR69 sisters will only be considered bullion. Why?

Well, for starters, 4,000/7,000 is a lot of coins. Each one is high grade (so there's never really a hunt, its just a question of which one) and since an MS69 will never command much more over melt, they just won't be considered a serious collectible.<<

I would be interested to know the reasoning behind your conclusion that 4,000/7,000 is a lot of coins, and MS/PR69 First Spouse coins will only be considered bullion. The Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins are the lowest mintage modern commemorative gold coins to date. Both the MS/PR69 Jackie Robinson and MS69 Capitol Visitor Center gold sell for *way* above bullion price. Ditto for the MS69 2006-W unc. Platinum Eagles, which are much less popular than commemorative gold. >>



Simple. They are all the same. The only possible way that 4,000 or anything could bring premium dollars is if more the 4,000 folks start clamboring for them.

Oooo-Wee! That Jackie Robinson does bring a healthy premium and so does that Capital Visitors Center! The primary difference is that most of the coins in that Gold Commemorative Collection have mintages way higher than either of those two coins which brings "value" to the lower mintage coins. That in itself generates interest and premiums.

The First Spouses on the other hand will all have those 4,000 mintages. All the same amounts. All the same relative grades. All the same boring designs. All issued on a regular basis and all sell outs (eventually or dang near close to it.)

Additionally, some of those earlier commemorative sales were not fueled by the "Internet Age" along with the "Internet Hype". Therefore sales reflected truely what folks wanted and not what folks figured they could flip for a profit.

Low mintages are meaningless unless folks actually want the coins and are willing to pay that low mintage premium. Since all the First Spouse coins are low mintage and everybody that wants one pretty much has one, the only differentiating factor will be the slab grade.

I accept that some may have some fairly low mintages and those may be the "relative" exceptions but once folks on the net catch wind of that fact (like they do with everything else) the low sales coins will get huge boosts in sales before they get dropped from the US Mints catalog.

Whoops! Almost forgot to add. These coins were originally selling for just a bit over melt from the mint at $429 each. When the price of gold jumped up to over $1,000, the US mint adjusted the price to $529 each. Now, the price of gold is still volitile but below $1,000 yet the coins are being hawked for "well Above" melt at $629 for a hlaf ounce of gold which would be what $475?

19Lyds

<< <i>4000/7000 coins is not alot of coins considering the relatively low initial price. THese low mintage spouses will find pretty strong hands fairly quickly. Personally I think whatever coin ends up being the key will beat the J Robinson in appreciation, and as it sits the L adams unc. at 4223 sets a pretty low bar. I don't see any going far below that but I am buying as they come out just in case. >>



Right!

Too many folks concentrate on low published mintages instead of collectable appeal. The First Spouse coins are more appealing from a flipping standpoint than a collecting standpoint. Low mintage or not.

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>4000/7000 coins is not alot of coins considering the relatively low initial price. THese low mintage spouses will find pretty strong hands fairly quickly. Personally I think whatever coin ends up being the key will beat the J Robinson in appreciation, and as it sits the L adams unc. at 4223 sets a pretty low bar. I don't see any going far below that but I am buying as they come out just in case. >>



Gold will over take most of these coins as they hit the melting pot just like 79/80. The longer it last the more melted. Come out of that and a lot of common material may be very hard to find in the future. >>



One can only hope!

hiijacker

Don"t forget that the early one had the highest mintage but were most susceptible to the great 2008 melt. Gold was at $1,000 and these sets were bought for about $400 each. Once dealer claimed to have actually melted between 2,000 - 5,000 of these during this 2 week period.

HalfStrike

The only hope for higher sales seems to be a substantial drop in the price of gold which may not happen. At $1000 an ounce or close to it this series is a steep price, plus they added the medals.

The medals may have further cut the potential sales for the gold coins. They are the low cost competitor.

For less than half the cost of one gold coin someone can buy the entire medal set [excluding shipping and handling].

Maybe the real purchase is for the medals and not the gold?

I remember seeing some medal sales numbers but lost them, wish I had kept that.

Overdate

>>The First Spouses on the other hand will all have those 4,000 mintages. All the same amounts. All the same relative grades. All the same boring designs. All issued on a regular basis and all sell outs (eventually or dang near close to it.)<<

The designs are not all boring, especially those in the non-spouse "liberty" short set. And only about 12,000 each of the Elizabeth Monroe / Louisa Adams coins were sold before the Mint's cutoff dates, which is far from a "sell out" - mintage limit was 40,000 for each coin.

>>Additionally, some of those earlier commemorative sales were not fueled by the "Internet Age" along with the "Internet Hype". Therefore sales reflected truely what folks wanted and not what folks figured they could flip for a profit.<<

There were plenty of bubbles before the Internet. The BU roll frenzy in 1963-64 is an excellent example. 1950-D nickels were fetching as much as $1200 per roll. ($7500 in today's dollars!)

Today the Jackie Robinson unc. $5 is selling at more than 10x issue price. Does this mean that its popularity has multiplied by a factor of 10 since 1997? I doubt if anyone is buying the JR today to flip for a quick profit.


>>Low mintages are meaningless unless folks actually want the coins and are willing to pay that low mintage premium. Since all the First Spouse coins are low mintage and everybody that wants one pretty much has one, the only differentiating factor will be the slab grade.<<

Low mintages, by themselves, are attractive to many collectors. That's why many of them acquire "trophy" coins (such as the 1909-S VDB cent) even if they don't otherwise collect the series. The Jackie Robinson unc. $5 gold was on sale for six months, so everyone that wanted one pretty much had one. However, after the low mintage was revealed, many more collectors suddenly "wanted" one - precisely because the low mintage made the coin much more desirable.

A decade from now, the same may be true for the scarcer First Spouse gold coins.

Silverstate

I collect them to go along with the Presidential Dollars. It is a pricey set but, better than Eagles IMHO.

To each his/her own. Some are nicer than others. I like the Libs. Some will be VERY low Mintages since prices from the mint were VERY high, due to gold levels.
If gold rockets, all of this conversation will be pointless and we will all jump to sell/melt our spouse coins! :-)