ANA Urges Members to Contact Congress
EagleEye
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From the ANA:
Goal is to Repeal New 1099 Requirements
COLORADO SPRINGS – The American Numismatic Association urges its members to contact their members of Congress and ask to repeal a law that could significantly increase the paperwork burden on dealers and increase the risk of identity theft for all collectors who buy and sell numismatic material.
Under Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, commonly known as health care reform legislation, businesses will be required to report all goods and services purchased in excess of $600 with an IRS 1099 form. As written, the law would, beginning in 2012, require all coin dealers to report on IRS form 1099 all goods and services (totaled across a taxable year) they purchase from other dealers and customers in excess of $600.
While the legislation applies to all types of businesses, an unusual burden would be placed on numismatic dealers who, unlike most businesses, buy goods and services from each other and their retail clients. In addition, dealers will be required to gather personal information on all clients who sell them goods or services in excess of $600, including name, address and social security number.
“All dealers will be disproportionately and unfairly impacted by this legislation,” said ANA Executive Director Larry Shepherd. “As a former dealer, I can see how a small-to-medium-sized dealer could easily be required to submit 1,000 or more 1099s in a typical year, at very significant cost. In addition, all collectors would be forced to give out personal information that could increase the possibility of identity theft. This section of the healthcare reform bill is a nightmare for everyone in this hobby. We need to make sure that our voices are heard.”
Shepherd cautioned that the numismatic community should understand that this is not a new tax, but rather a method by which the IRS can collect more information in hopes that more taxpayers will report taxable income. The assumption is that the new regulation would generate about $17 billion over 10 years, increasing tax revenue to cover some of the costs of health care reform.
Already, Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA) has introduced HR 5141 to repeal this part of the health care reform act, and Sen. Mike Johanns (R-NE) has introduced a companion bill in the Senate, S. 3578. Both bills are titled “The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act,” and will likely need more co-sponsors in the House of Representatives and Senate.
“The ANA urges everyone who loves this hobby to contact your representatives and urge them to sign on to HR 5141 and to contact both your senators and urge them to sign on to S. 3578,” Shepherd said.
The ANA has posted sample letters from dealers or collectors below and on its website at www.money.org.
For contact information on your members of Congress, go to http://www.house.gov/ or http://www.senate.gov/. Anyone without a computer should contact the local office of your representative or senator, or call the U.S. Capitol at 202-224-3121.
Following are messages, developed by the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (www.ictaonline.org) that can be sent to your representative (HR 5141) or senator (S 3578).
Version for Collectors/Investors
Subject: SUPPORT (either HR 5141 or S 3578): Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
Please repeal the new IRS Form 1099 requirement found in Section 9006 of Public Law 111-148, the Health Care Reform Act, that requires all small businesses to issue a tax information reporting form to virtually all of their customers and vendors, including corporations. This will be devastating to all small businesses.
This new law creates a monumental increase in paperwork for small businesses already overburdened by government regulation and reporting requirements.
In addition, I will be required to give my confidential tax ID information to many businesses that may not be capable of keeping this information secure. I am concerned about identity theft as I am required to provide my Social Security number and other identifying information when conducting transactions. When showing my driver’s license as proof of identity, the license includes my name, address and date of birth!
I urge you to co-sponsor HR 5141 (or S 3578) to prevent this business and personal security nightmare.
Version for Dealers
Subject: SUPPORT (either HR 5141 or S 3578): Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
Please repeal the new IRS Form 1099 requirement found in Section 9006 of Public Law 111-148, the Health Care Reform Act, that requires all small businesses like mine to issue a tax information reporting form to virtually all of our customers and vendors, including corporations. This will be devastating to my small business.
I buy and sell rare coins, currency, precious metals, and collectibles that I purchase for my inventory from hundreds of other dealers, as well as from my retail clients. (Other than a few items that can be obtained from the U.S. Mint, these are the only sources of my merchandise.) This new 1099 provision will require me to file hundreds, if not thousands, of forms. Further, it is not simply a matter of completing the form, but also the work and time involved in obtaining the proper tax identification number and dealing with backup withholding requirements.
In addition, I will be required to obtain confidential tax ID information from my colleagues and customers and also be responsible for safekeeping that confidential data.
I urge you to co-sponsor HR 5141 (or S 3578) to prevent this business and personal security nightmare.
Access this link to view, cut and paste sample letters on www.money.org.
The American Numismatic Association is a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to encouraging people to study and collect money and related items. The ANA helps its members and the public discover and explore the world of money through its vast array of education and outreach programs, as well as its museum, library, publications, conventions and seminars. For more information, call 719-632-2646 or visit www.money.org.
HR 5141 progress
S 3578 progress
Goal is to Repeal New 1099 Requirements
COLORADO SPRINGS – The American Numismatic Association urges its members to contact their members of Congress and ask to repeal a law that could significantly increase the paperwork burden on dealers and increase the risk of identity theft for all collectors who buy and sell numismatic material.
Under Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, commonly known as health care reform legislation, businesses will be required to report all goods and services purchased in excess of $600 with an IRS 1099 form. As written, the law would, beginning in 2012, require all coin dealers to report on IRS form 1099 all goods and services (totaled across a taxable year) they purchase from other dealers and customers in excess of $600.
While the legislation applies to all types of businesses, an unusual burden would be placed on numismatic dealers who, unlike most businesses, buy goods and services from each other and their retail clients. In addition, dealers will be required to gather personal information on all clients who sell them goods or services in excess of $600, including name, address and social security number.
“All dealers will be disproportionately and unfairly impacted by this legislation,” said ANA Executive Director Larry Shepherd. “As a former dealer, I can see how a small-to-medium-sized dealer could easily be required to submit 1,000 or more 1099s in a typical year, at very significant cost. In addition, all collectors would be forced to give out personal information that could increase the possibility of identity theft. This section of the healthcare reform bill is a nightmare for everyone in this hobby. We need to make sure that our voices are heard.”
Shepherd cautioned that the numismatic community should understand that this is not a new tax, but rather a method by which the IRS can collect more information in hopes that more taxpayers will report taxable income. The assumption is that the new regulation would generate about $17 billion over 10 years, increasing tax revenue to cover some of the costs of health care reform.
Already, Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA) has introduced HR 5141 to repeal this part of the health care reform act, and Sen. Mike Johanns (R-NE) has introduced a companion bill in the Senate, S. 3578. Both bills are titled “The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act,” and will likely need more co-sponsors in the House of Representatives and Senate.
“The ANA urges everyone who loves this hobby to contact your representatives and urge them to sign on to HR 5141 and to contact both your senators and urge them to sign on to S. 3578,” Shepherd said.
The ANA has posted sample letters from dealers or collectors below and on its website at www.money.org.
For contact information on your members of Congress, go to http://www.house.gov/ or http://www.senate.gov/. Anyone without a computer should contact the local office of your representative or senator, or call the U.S. Capitol at 202-224-3121.
Following are messages, developed by the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (www.ictaonline.org) that can be sent to your representative (HR 5141) or senator (S 3578).
Version for Collectors/Investors
Subject: SUPPORT (either HR 5141 or S 3578): Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
Please repeal the new IRS Form 1099 requirement found in Section 9006 of Public Law 111-148, the Health Care Reform Act, that requires all small businesses to issue a tax information reporting form to virtually all of their customers and vendors, including corporations. This will be devastating to all small businesses.
This new law creates a monumental increase in paperwork for small businesses already overburdened by government regulation and reporting requirements.
In addition, I will be required to give my confidential tax ID information to many businesses that may not be capable of keeping this information secure. I am concerned about identity theft as I am required to provide my Social Security number and other identifying information when conducting transactions. When showing my driver’s license as proof of identity, the license includes my name, address and date of birth!
I urge you to co-sponsor HR 5141 (or S 3578) to prevent this business and personal security nightmare.
Version for Dealers
Subject: SUPPORT (either HR 5141 or S 3578): Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
Please repeal the new IRS Form 1099 requirement found in Section 9006 of Public Law 111-148, the Health Care Reform Act, that requires all small businesses like mine to issue a tax information reporting form to virtually all of our customers and vendors, including corporations. This will be devastating to my small business.
I buy and sell rare coins, currency, precious metals, and collectibles that I purchase for my inventory from hundreds of other dealers, as well as from my retail clients. (Other than a few items that can be obtained from the U.S. Mint, these are the only sources of my merchandise.) This new 1099 provision will require me to file hundreds, if not thousands, of forms. Further, it is not simply a matter of completing the form, but also the work and time involved in obtaining the proper tax identification number and dealing with backup withholding requirements.
In addition, I will be required to obtain confidential tax ID information from my colleagues and customers and also be responsible for safekeeping that confidential data.
I urge you to co-sponsor HR 5141 (or S 3578) to prevent this business and personal security nightmare.
Access this link to view, cut and paste sample letters on www.money.org.
The American Numismatic Association is a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to encouraging people to study and collect money and related items. The ANA helps its members and the public discover and explore the world of money through its vast array of education and outreach programs, as well as its museum, library, publications, conventions and seminars. For more information, call 719-632-2646 or visit www.money.org.
HR 5141 progress
S 3578 progress
Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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Comments
<< <i>This sounds like poorly conceived legislation that will be a nightmare for both dealers and collectors. >>
As is most legislation coming from the current arrogant and out of touch regime in power.
Not only dealers and collectors but all small businesses across the country.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Anyone with an ounce of sense would see that this law has hit a nerve or perhaps from a revenue standpoint it has hit a rich vein!!
All of these protests will likely only harden the IRS conviction and resolve to capture their due when PMs and PM based coins/jewerly are sold.
I doubt 10% of annual PM sales have capital gains profit reported.
I doubt 25% of people cashing in PMs with a profit even realise their gain is possibly a taxable event.
I'm sure IRS would like to correct this..............
I've posted this before but I'm amazed it took so long to happen.
<< <i>" I think thou protests too much." >>
I think a lot of people are protesting the idea of having to work as unpaid tax collectors. I'm pretty sure they'd rather be spending their time doing things that generate income for their businesses.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>This is very old news. The American Inst. of CPAs has been against this thing since its discovery. Congress doesn't want to be bothered to fix it. Numismatics is a flyspeck on the glass of the Empire State Building as far as this is concerned. It is going to be a major pain in the a** for virtually all businesses of any size. >>
Coin collectors and coin dealers vote and Congressmen and Senators know it. They ignore their constituents at their own risk.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
understand anything asides from
THE VOTE
so remember to vote
Make it political if you feel you must, but the cure is to keep all politicians honest and accountable, not only the ones you politically oppose.
BTW, did you call your Congressman or are you just letting it out here and are not going to do anything?
but make no mistake, it is political
as the bill is written by "our politicians"
and what I was saying is that
the only thing that they understand is the vote.
and by the way, I agree with you.
That's EXACTLY what it is. It was something tucked into the 2,700 page Health Care Bill that people were supposed to read only after voting for it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
"In contacting one's congressman to voice opposition to these particular bills it might be helpful to offer a more reasonable alternative to achieve the goal the bill intended - namely that all money received by people selling such items over a certain amount be reported to the IRS.
It would then be up to the individuals/entities to properly report any offsetting costs associated with the income that would serve to support the claimed basis and/or to reduce one's tax burden on the transaction (to as low as zero or more) - i.e. possible capital loss for individuals or business losses from inventory for businesses who regularly deal in such goods. The government only wants a peice of the "PROFITS" of these transactions (after all allowable adjustments & deductions are taken)."
What would a more friendly alternative that achieved the same goal look like?
Personal privacy concerns aside (and they're MONUMENTAL) I would suggest the tried & true American way of simply putting the burden of reporting the income on the receiver. Isn't that the way it has always been? More onerous requirements oversteps IMHO.
I requested a response, lets see what the boilerplate will say.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they have it backwards?
If I'm buying a coin for more than $600 from Dealer X, I need his SSN or Tax ID number to send him a 1099. He doesn't need my info, as he is the one being paid for merchandise or a service. For example, in my business, I send a 1099 each year to the guy who cleans my office because I pay him for that service. He had to give me his SSN.
<< <i>Version for Collectors/Investors In addition, I will be required to give my confidential tax ID information to many businesses that may not be capable of keeping this information secure. I am concerned about identity theft as I am required to provide my Social Security number and other identifying information when conducting transactions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they have it backwards?
If I'm buying a coin for more than $600 from Dealer X, I need his SSN or Tax ID number to send him a 1099. He doesn't need my info, as he is the one being paid for merchandise or a service. For example, in my business, I send a 1099 each year to the guy who cleans my office because I pay him for that service. He had to give me his SSN. >>
The concern is when a collector sells a coin to a dealer for more than $600. The collector would then have to give him his SSN which would make any sane collector very nervous.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Remember the old axiom: The nail that sticks up gets hammered.
<< <i>Is the real problem the chance of identity theft/burdensome paperwork, or is it that it makes it harder to get around paying taxes on transactions? If you can honestly say that you're upset about giving your SS number out, I agree with you. If you're upset because the government is putting some policies in effect so that it can enforce it's current tax law, I have to wonder at the sense in complaining about it in a way that draws attention to your business transactions.
Remember the old axiom: The nail that sticks up gets hammered. >>
I think the problem is what gives the goverment the f'in right to make every coin dealer a flipping IRS agent and force them to become buried in paper work? I don't know about you, buy I want my coin dealers spending their time hunting for coins I need for my sets so they can make a living and I can complete my collection
<< <i>Not only dealers and collectors but all small businesses across the country. >>
Yea this is bad for many businesses.
Giving out SSNs is crazy.
Will this add a premium for smaller gold bullion coins that you can sell without giving your SSN?
<< <i>Given that the repeal bills in the House and Senate currently have bi-partisan support and importantly, the Limbaugh/Beck stamp of approval, I don't think it will be blocked when it comes to a vote. I will say these repeal measures will pass. Heck, I think the IRS is doesn't want the hassles either. >>
Rick, I think and hope you're right. But even if so, it's extremely disturbing that things have gotten this far.
Will Obama side with us or pull out his 'veto" stamp if passed by both houses?
<< <i>Rick, I think and hope you're right. But even if so, it's extremely disturbing that things have gotten this far. >>
Things woulldn't get this far if congress was required to limit legislation to one subject per bill, written in plain english, that each congressman must swear under oath as having read before casting his vote on it.
Oh, and while I'm at it, I'd like a pony, too.
<< <i>I have stated this before: The problem I have with this requirement is people will refuse to sell me thier collections If I have to report the purchase of thier coins, gold and silver to the IRS. Personally I dont care on my end as I report total purchases, sales, expenses every year via Schedule C. People will choose not to do business with me, and go to some JOe shmoe fly by nite set up that is not following the reprting requirement, even if they are paying less. As I also stated before, its not the hand full of over the counter purchases that keeps the store profitable, its the 1500-15k deals I buy weekly. Just this week alone I have bought 4-5 collections valued in excess of 3k , and not a single one of them would have sold to me If we were already on the new reporting requirement. On Jan 1 2012 < my business will began to fail. >>
I agree, I think this legislation is going to put a damper on the coin business.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Analysis of the 2010 Health Care Act:
The following was found here.
7/30/10 — House bill would repeal unpopular information reporting changes.
On July 30, a bill to repeal a controversial section of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Health Care Act P.L. 111-148) was taken up by the House of Representatives.
Under Sec. 9006 of the Health Care Act, for payments made after Dec. 31, 2011: (1) businesses that pay any amount greater than $600 during the year to non-tax-exempt corporate providers of property and services will have to file an information report with each provider and with IRS; and (2) businesses will have to file information returns with respect to any person (including corporations) that receives $600 or more from the business in exchange for property and merchandise.
H.R. 5982, the "Small Business tax Relief Act of 2010," would repeal Sec. 9006 of the Health Care Act and thus repeal the preceding Health Care Act requirements before they take effect.
To offset the $19.206 billion in revenue that would be lost by repealing Sec. 9006 of the Health Care Act, H.R. 5982 "borrows" from revenue raisers that were included in other House legislation. For example, it takes foreign loophole closers that were included in the House-passed extenders bill, see Weekly Alert - 06/03/2010. Other revenue raisers: a minimum 10–year term for grantor retained annuity trusts, an exclusion from the definition of cellulosic biofuel for the cellulosic biofuel producer credit for certain processed fuels, clarification of gain recognized in certain spin-off transactions, and increased penalties for failure to file information returns.
The following material can also be found on Checkpoint:
JCX-43–10, the Joint Committee of Taxation's "Technical Explanation of the Revenue Provisions of H.R.–5982, the Small Business Tax Relief Act of 2010;" and
the legislative text of H.R. 5982, the Small Business Tax Relief Act of 2010."
H.R. 5982 now dead.
How the votes were counted