What's the biggest financial beating you have received in numismatics?

rhedden · July 19, 2010 6:40AM

The "biggest financial homerun" thread that has been hanging around here for a couple of years has been a joy to read. However, in the interest of not deluding any new forum members with stories of numismatic financial triumph, I think it would be equally educational to post stories of beatings received and baths taken. So here it is, the thread for numismatic transactions that made you say...

Who wants to go first?

Mowgli · July 19, 2010 6:46AM

Any beatings I took were when I first started and would buy from people who had big full page ads in Coin World. The short set of Walkers was not MS 63 from mint rolls, the MS 63 set of silver Franklins had over dipped AU coins in it. The money lost was worth the lesson I learned.

morgansforever · July 19, 2010 6:46AM

Buying 40 boxes of the 05 P&D nickel sets from the Mint for $9.95 a piece.
Tried to sell them for face at a local flea market, not one sold in two days.
Stupid purchase on my part. Any suggestions?

Bayard1908 · July 19, 2010 6:52AM

Sold all my silver for $11.66 in September 1979. I more than doubled my money but missed out on the 10X gain.

rhedden · July 19, 2010 7:05AM

In the 1990s, a dealer friend of mine bought a $100k collection, the highlight of which was a 1796 half dollar in F-12. Looked nice and original. I even looked at it myself. Too bad it was holed and expertly- and I mean really expertly- plugged. Minus $8k. His other miscalculation was the personality of the previous owner, who basically told him to shove the coin where the sun don't shine.

tightbudget · July 19, 2010 7:11AM

Bought a fake S-VDB when I first started collecting

gonzer · July 19, 2010 7:16AM

Selling the VF 1969-S double Die I found for $385 in 1974.

guitarwes · July 19, 2010 7:22AM

Buying numerous cleaned Capped Bust Half dollars off eBay and a ton of U.S Mint Nickel sets when I first started collecting in '04. I also got burned on ebay for a $5 Liberty gold piece for the sum of $165 in '04. The seller never sent it. I still remember the guys screen name and real name.

DennisH · July 19, 2010 7:31AM

$325. I paid $1,425 for an 1879-S R78 PCGS-64 Morgan, then watched the market drop fairly steeply and got just $1,100 for it when I sold my set. Compared to how far ahead I am overall it's such a minor blip that I had to search through my records to remember the details.

291fifth · July 19, 2010 7:42AM

In the mid to late 1990's I bought several patterns. They were auctioned at the 1999 ANA Chicago ... even though 11 years have passed I still feel sick when I think of my loss on those.

I would never touch another pattern.

lkeigwin · July 19, 2010 7:46AM

A few years ago I bought a '16-D 65RD NGC Lincoln for $1750. Tried to cross it to PCGS for my collection. DNC'd twice. Frustrated, I cracked it and submitted and guess what? Right...BB'd. Tried twice more to get it graded. I finally sold it raw on ebay, with the full story, for $405. Now that was a good lesson.
Lance.

Cladiator · July 19, 2010 7:48AM

Bought some sets of the platinum plated silver quarters eons ago. Tried to sell them, no one would go near them. I ended up breaking them out and using them at the vending machine at work.

jsf · July 19, 2010 7:56AM

1. Walkers
2. gold type
3. tbd

GoldenEyeNumismatics · July 19, 2010 8:34AM

Bought a PCGS MS65 1887-S Morgan that looked like a sure thing upgrade for about $2200. Four resubmissions later I wasn't able to get it able to grade higher than MS64. Finally sold it as an NGC MS64 on eBay for about $450.

yellowkid · July 19, 2010 8:36AM

Do you mean today?

SkyMan · July 19, 2010 8:56AM

I first started out buying coins as a financial investment to diversify my assets in 1988. I knew Jack about coins then, however most of the coins I bought were slabbed PCGS rattlers, so that at least was a bit of a safety net. I believed the hype that slabs had changed the market and coins could now be "securitized", e.g. bought as, in essence, a mutual fund by some of the major brokerages. The problem was that I was buying in an inflating bubble (by other people who also believed the hype)... basically each week I could see that my purchases of the previous week were already up, so I bought more. I thought, jeeze, what an easy way to make money. It was... until the music stopped in 1989, when the prices nose dived basically overnight. I got my ass handed to me on a platter, losing roughly 50% of what I put in. It taught me about bubbles, which was a nasty but helpful lesson in that the vast majority of my assets (barring my house) are in stocks/bonds. I live in Silicon Valley and was able to side step the dotcom bubble of the late 1990's, when I watched a bunch of people I know get totally whacked when that bubble burst.

Elcontador · July 19, 2010 9:03AM

In 1968, after looking at the coin under poor lighting at a coin auction located at the local Masonic Hall, I won a heated bidding contest for a Gem BU 1931 S Merc. It was a no question Full Split Bands, and I have never seen a Merc with this kind of eye appeal before, or since. Paid $75 for it; that was a chunk of change for me back then.

Thirty years later, I wanted to sell some stuff / trade it for other stuff. The dealer showed me a scratch across Miss Liberty's jawline which I missed. It was an MS 63, maybe a 4 on a good day, and I took his $50 offer for it. Just to give you some perspective, the same year, I paid $35 for a 1936 S Walker which is now in a PC 6 holder.

CertifiedGoldCoins · July 19, 2010 9:11AM

"Selling the VF 1969-S double Die I found for $385 in 1974."

How about selling an AU 1955 Doubled Die for $175 around 1961-2?

kranky · July 19, 2010 9:38AM

I don't know yet, they are still sitting in the bank. But there are a couple that won't be winners even if I live to be 100.

jdimmick · July 19, 2010 9:47AM

When I first started out dealing coins, I had very little expereince in dealing with gold coins. Bought a collection of 9 gold coins from another dealer. Sent all 9 coins in to get graded at ANACS, all came back not genuine from Anacs. They were lebanon counterfiets. Took a tremendous bath as it was an as-is deal. For years after that, I spent a lot of time studing gold!!

soty27 · July 19, 2010 9:54AM

I purchased a very nicely toned SLQ for 2250.00 later sold it in a heritage auction with a terrible photo and no reserve. Sale price just under 900.00

That was fun 1350.00 loss

bidask · July 19, 2010 10:06AM

I have sold great coins waaaayyyy to cheap and bought great coins for waaaayyyy to much.

Lost thousands......

kryptonitecomics · July 19, 2010 10:09AM

Selling off my first toned coin collection via Heritage about 3 years ago due to my divorce.......between the bad images and the amount I originally overpaid for the coins when I first started collecting toners I would estimate I lost $10-$15K

scottgardener · July 19, 2010 10:36AM

Not collecting coins very much at all from 2003 through 2007; I really, really, really missed out. I pulled a few interesting things from circulation, and my in-laws gave me proof sets, but I missed out on a fortune in rising precious metals, not to mention the opportunity to have learned more sooner and to have built a better and nicer collection by now.

But, I'm making up for lost time. I just wish I had bought gold quarter eagles when common dates in AU were $120 to $150 a piece. A Saint Gaudens $20 for $600? Unfathomable today.

roadrunner · July 19, 2010 10:37AM

It was either the 1988 or 1989 ANA auction. The lighting stunk where they were showing lots in the grand ballroom. With a huge overhead and flourescent lighting the coins didn't look quite right. I had them turn the lights down more and it helped as the coins started looking worse....which was a good thing....but it wasn't enough. During the auction bidding the room was pretty sparse and I was surprised at how many "great" deals I was winning. I was thrilled. Remember, this was still basically the all raw days. When I got the bargains back to my hotel room for a closer inspection and saw them in proper light/dark contrast I was appalled that nearly every lot was about 1 pt lower than I first graded them. I was deeply buried. I ended up taking an $8K bath on about 2 dozen coins that cost around $15,000. And these days they don't show lots any more in huge ball rooms with fuzzy lighting....much the same condition you would get on the bourse floor out in the aisles.

My worst all time percentage hit on a coin >$1000 was buying a raw toned "gem" proof 1863 seated quarter back at the Boston show in 1983 for $3000. I got the coin from a colonial dealer based in Connecticut. Unfortunately upon submitting that "monster" to the TPG's in 1988 I found out it was AT. I should have sold the coin as is but was utterly disgusted with finding out it was AT. I didn't want to even look at this coin. I dipped it out figuring it should come out no worse than 64 or 65. Nope. It came out totally dead with plenty of hairlines that had been well hidden by the color. It graded out NGC PF 62. I recall getting around $500 for it. Nice lesson learned!

roadrunner

ChrisRx · July 19, 2010 10:47AM

<< A few years ago I bought a '16-D 65RD NGC Lincoln for $1750. Tried to cross it to PCGS for my collection. DNC'd twice. Frustrated, I cracked it and submitted and guess what? Right...BB'd. Tried twice more to get it graded. I finally sold it raw on ebay, with the full story, for $405. Now that was a good lesson.
Lance. >>

The only thing that could make that story worse is that the ebay buyer submitted it and it got graded

scotty1418 · July 19, 2010 11:32AM

Man!

I feel I've been very lucky.

My worst (so far) was a 1921 Peace that I originally traded $145 in value of low grade silver dollars for - it was a ridiculously overgraded overdipped piece and I sold it on her a year ago for around $75 - lost 50%.

It was a good lesson for me to learn the 1921 diagnostics and luster though - only took me two more pieces to get a good one

lkeigwin · July 19, 2010 11:38AM

<< 

<< A few years ago I bought a '16-D 65RD NGC Lincoln for $1750. Tried to cross it to PCGS for my collection. DNC'd twice. Frustrated, I cracked it and submitted and guess what? Right...BB'd. Tried twice more to get it graded. I finally sold it raw on ebay, with the full story, for $405. Now that was a good lesson.
Lance. >>

The only thing that could make that story worse is that the ebay buyer submitted it and it got graded

>>

Chris, are you hinting at something? You better not have been the auction winner! #$%@#!
Lance.

ChrisRx · July 19, 2010 11:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< A few years ago I bought a '16-D 65RD NGC Lincoln for $1750. Tried to cross it to PCGS for my collection. DNC'd twice. Frustrated, I cracked it and submitted and guess what? Right...BB'd. Tried twice more to get it graded. I finally sold it raw on ebay, with the full story, for $405. Now that was a good lesson.
Lance. >>

The only thing that could make that story worse is that the ebay buyer submitted it and it got graded

>>

Chris, are you hinting at something? You better not have been the auction winner! #$%@#!
Lance. >>

Who, me? No way!

ProofArtworkonCircs · July 19, 2010 3:06PM

I sold an 1893 S $1 that the dealer graded as XF 50 for $1,000 in 1979. It seemed like a good idea at the time but now I wish I had kept it. I also suspect it was AU.

mrpotatoheadd · July 19, 2010 3:10PM

<< Selling the VF 1969-S double Die I found for $385 in 1974. >>

How is selling a coin you found for $385 a financial beating? Sounds more like a windfall to me.

Justacommeman · July 19, 2010 3:54PM

I have a few baby seal like beatings coming in my future. They will be from coins that were out of my normal field of collecting. I strayed without guidance. Up to that point I was being extremely diligent and I let my guard down for a second and poof............it's gonna leave a mark and I deserve it. MJ

Bear · July 19, 2010 5:47PM

On all the coins I bought or sold, I wasn't so much beaten,

as I was pillaged and plundered.

It had a great similarity,

to receiving a Colonoscopy with the wrong end of a broom.

nutmeg · July 19, 2010 9:48PM

<< When I first started out dealing coins, I had very little expereince in dealing with gold coins. Bought a collection of 9 gold coins from another dealer. Sent all 9 coins in to get graded at ANACS, all came back not genuine from Anacs. They were lebanon counterfiets. Took a tremendous bath as it was an as-is deal. For years after that, I spent a lot of time studing gold!! >>

I bought a fake 1925-D 2.5 dollar Indian raw when I first started out. It was a good casting and very convincing. Luckily the dealer refunded all my money quickly.
Now I try to buy only slabbed and graded gold.

agentjim007 · July 19, 2010 9:57PM

About $800 on one coin. If you added them all up I'm sure the $800 is a drop in the bucket.

drei3ree · July 19, 2010 10:28PM

<< About $800 on one coin. If you added them all up I'm sure the $800 is a drop in the bucket. >>

...but fortunately the winners help to offset that to a point where the losses are tolerable.

giorgio11 · July 19, 2010 10:47PM

I bought a 1909-S VDB MS65RD PCGS from a local Tennessee dealer one time when I was much younger (mid-1980s). Paid $2100 plus 7% sales tax = $2247. Kept it for a couple of years and hit a rough patch. Sold it to another dealer for a fair price at the time, $1700. Right after that is when they crossed the 5 grand level. Ouch!

But most of my dealings have been in the other direction so I can't complain.

WillieBoyd2 · July 19, 2010 11:15PM

I bought one of the Carson City silver dollars that the US Goverment sold in 1974.

I still have the cardboard box and certificate (signed by Richard Nixon!) but have
lost the coin.

BillJones · July 19, 2010 11:44PM

To date the biggest beating I've ever taken on a coin was on this 1796 half dime. I bought it raw thinking that it would grade because the services are "easier" on early silver coins than on the later issues. They weren't easy enough on this one, and I blew it off for a $1,000 loss. Lesson learned. Buy it in the holder you want from the get-go.

GritsMan · July 20, 2010 12:05AM

My biggest beating was not taking out a second mortgage on the house and using it to buy all the fractional gold buffalos the Mint would sell me.

Other than that, I've bought a couple of key dates at the height of their price run-up. I do hope that I'm smarter now, but can never be sure.

BillJones · July 20, 2010 12:15AM

<< My biggest beating was not taking out a second mortgage on the house and using it to buy all the fractional gold buffalos the Mint would sell me.

Other than that, I've bought a couple of key dates at the height of their price run-up. I do hope that I'm smarter now, but can never be sure. >>

You are kdding, right? How did you lose money on fractional gold buffalos?

BBN · July 20, 2010 12:18AM

Buying the basic registry type set. When my interest turned elsewhere I took a loss on most coins because many of them have little demand. Really, how many people get into a bidding war for a PR66 3 cent piece? Lesson learned.

Coinsponge · July 20, 2010 12:26AM

For me it was buying about 50 2005 proof and mint sets on eBay. I thought no brainer. Buffalo nickel, satin finish (on mint sets), one year obverse design. Can't loose. Ha. It is an unrealized beating so far though because I still have them. That was when I started to pay attention to mintages.

BillJones · July 20, 2010 12:36AM

<< Buying the basic registry type set. When my interest turned elsewhere I took a loss on most coins because many of them have little demand. Really, how many people get into a bidding war for a PR66 3 cent piece? Lesson learned. >>

As David Bowers has written, “coins are a long term investment,” if they are an investment at all. I've bought some expensive type coins recently, and I'm under no illusions about what I'd get for them if I tried to sell them right now. Maybe 10 years from now they will look “cheap” like the coins I’ve held for 10 years plus. BUT coins are a long term financial commitment if you are looking at from the “investment” perspective and not the hobby perspective.

Coinsponge · July 20, 2010 12:44AM

<< 

<< My biggest beating was not taking out a second mortgage on the house and using it to buy all the fractional gold buffalos the Mint would sell me.

Other than that, I've bought a couple of key dates at the height of their price run-up. I do hope that I'm smarter now, but can never be sure. >>

You are kdding, right? How did you lose money on fractional gold buffalos? >>

He is saying he DID NOT buy them and therefore the "loss". Not a real loss but a lost opportunity.

GritsMan · July 20, 2010 1:23AM

<< 

<< 

<< My biggest beating was not taking out a second mortgage on the house and using it to buy all the fractional gold buffalos the Mint would sell me.

Other than that, I've bought a couple of key dates at the height of their price run-up. I do hope that I'm smarter now, but can never be sure. >>

You are kdding, right? How did you lose money on fractional gold buffalos? >>

He is saying he DID NOT buy them and therefore the "loss". Not a real loss but a lost opportunity. >>

Thanks, Coinsponge!

mrpotatoheadd · July 20, 2010 1:40AM

<< He is saying he DID NOT buy them and therefore the "loss". Not a real loss but a lost opportunity. >>

A "lost opportunity" is not a "financial beating".

Coinsponge · July 20, 2010 1:43AM

<< 

<< He is saying he DID NOT buy them and therefore the "loss". Not a real loss but a lost opportunity. >>

A "lost opportunity" is not a "financial beating".

>>

Only in your head.

BillJones · July 20, 2010 1:51AM

<< A "lost opportunity" is not a "financial beating". >>

Economists call it “opportunity costs,” but somehow “opportunity costs” don’t sting as much as the real thing.

renomedphys · July 20, 2010 2:36AM

Bought three MPLs for $3500, $5500 and $2500 respectively at the peak of the market. Decided that they weren't for me, and consigned them to Heritage about 9 months later (after the fall). They sold there for $1100, $2200 and $1050, representing a $7000 loss.

cmerlo1 · July 20, 2010 3:54AM

I cherrypicked a beautiful 1890-O VAM-10A Comet Morgan Dollar, ANACS MS-64 in the old white holder. The dealer let me have it for $300, which was graysheet bid + $10.00, and I thought I was getting a steal.

I decided to sell it on eBay a few months later, $.99 opening bid, no reserve, and it sold for $160.

What's the biggest financial beating you have received in numismatics?

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