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My house in 1962 and the price of gold
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
I posted my 1962 address and some thoughts on gold on the PCGS blog...
PCGS blod
Not as good as a Laura blog, but I'm trying.
hrh
0
Comments
<< <i>And many experts have been predicting gold prices to go to $2,000, $3,000, and even $5,000 per ounce. >>
Whomever is thinking that I would not call an "expert."
<< <i>
<< <i>And many experts have been predicting gold prices to go to $2,000, $3,000, and even $5,000 per ounce. >>
Whomever is thinking that I would not call an "expert." >>
... and other "experts" are saying $800 per ounce.
similar to the commodity price runup into mid-2008, numbers from experts are easy to find. They generally have little, no, or thinly placed basis. It's such a complex world out there and yet we have experts spouting numbers without hard facts to back them.
You want more fun.... "experts" from the money business have already called amounts for the BP damages.
it is to laugh...
Credit Suisse (First Boston) (a/k/a CSFB) - $37 billion
Goldman Sachs - "reasonable worst-case scenario" could bring the tab to $60 billion or $70 billion.
uhmmmmmm.... has the oil flow stopped yet experts? I'd expect to hear minimums, not maximums.
tsk, tsk.
and these are the leaders?
yeah.... $5,000 ... $800... numbers from thin air.
<< <i>You should stick to coins and stay away from economics. >>
I thought it explained the economic situation quite well.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
But if you had run the numbers in 2007, when the house was 600K and gold was much lower than today, you could have argued that the house had been a great investment, and that gold would have been a terrible investment. It's all in the timing.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>According to Zillow.com the house at 914 N Mountain View is now worth $377,000 (down from $600,000 in 2007). But did the house really go up 31 times, 1.e. 3000%, in the past 48 years? Let’s look at it another way. In 1962, the price of gold was $38 an ounce so it would have taken 317 ounces of gold to buy that house. As I’m writing this gold is at $1220 an ounce so today it would take 309 ounces of gold to buy that house. So, if my parents were alive and they still owned that house they could say they had made over $350,000 on that house. But would they really have? They would if you think of that house as a dollar denominated asset. But in terms of their real tangible net worth nothing really has changed. And you know what…that house i still the same house (basically) that it was in 1962. The house hasn’ changed, and an ounce of gold hasn’t changed. What has changed is the value of the dollar, and the dollar’s value has collapsed long term.
But if you had run the numbers in 2007, when the house was 600K and gold was much lower than today, you could have argued that the house had been a great investment, and that gold would have been a terrible investment. It's all in the timing. >>
I realize Gold is not the best investment in the world.
But it is the best at "preserving one's wealth".
I don't think even the 'anti-gold' posters could argue against this.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
All that being said, while inflation is quantified with talk of real estate markets and value in gold and silver rations, one fact remains. Food is cheap. It has not risen at the inflation rate of luxuries like mansions and cars and everything else we measure wealth by. how much did bread and water cost in the 1890s compared to what your typical worker made per week? And how much does your typical 10$ an hour gorcery clerk today make in relation to that same bread and water meal? I bet if you can quantify that, the true neccecites are cheaper. But our newfound poverty is really measure of our newfound entitlement that we should all live like movie stars, because we value these people more than so many other more important people out there in the real world, and if we dont live like the people we see on TV we are losers. If we dont live in a house with a pool and 5 bedrooms we did something wrong. If we dont go out and spend 10$ a drink at a fancy bar every weekend we are losers. But the truth is we can eat better than the 80 hour a week worker from 1890 with much less relative money. A gallon of water can be had for 50 cents. A full meal for 4 can be had with 1 hour of work. Its just our standards of personal entitlement have inflated.
Around the turn of the century, a $20 gold piece bought a cow and today, a cow is worth about the same amount in gold. This fiat system will deflate to nothing because that is the way it is designed to go.. the way ALL fiat systems go eventually by design.
And I agree, gold will reach near $4000 an ounce, not because it is worth more but because the dollar is in collapse.
But it's wrong to say that there is nothing to do about it or that this is just some fluke of the system. You are right though, it is a Ponzi scheme and it won't last.
First you have to grasp what exactly is going on in the current monetary system and what it's real function is.
Money Masters
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>People overrate the value of gold and what it means to the economy. The dollar may be fiat paper but gold is just fiat rock. You cant eat drink or breathe gold and in SHTF scenario the gold wont stop the looting and savagry. Gold is idealised because our history books speak of the hoardes of men traveling distant oceans in search of gold. But these were men on commision by VERY rich kings who had the luxury to pursue just that, the luxury of gold. Hungry people dont go looking for gold.
All that being said, while inflation is quantified with talk of real estate markets and value in gold and silver rations, one fact remains. Food is cheap. It has not risen at the inflation rate of luxuries like mansions and cars and everything else we measure wealth by. how much did bread and water cost in the 1890s compared to what your typical worker made per week? And how much does your typical 10$ an hour gorcery clerk today make in relation to that same bread and water meal? I bet if you can quantify that, the true neccecites are cheaper. But our newfound poverty is really measure of our newfound entitlement that we should all live like movie stars, because we value these people more than so many other more important people out there in the real world, and if we dont live like the people we see on TV we are losers. If we dont live in a house with a pool and 5 bedrooms we did something wrong. If we dont go out and spend 10$ a drink at a fancy bar every weekend we are losers. But the truth is we can eat better than the 80 hour a week worker from 1890 with much less relative money. A gallon of water can be had for 50 cents. A full meal for 4 can be had with 1 hour of work. Its just our standards of personal entitlement have inflated. >>
If gold is really just "fiat rock", then you should be able to get it by the truckload for almost nothing. There is nothing "fiat" about gold. It takes a defined amount of labor to produce an ounce of gold, and that is currently around $660 for the global average. Do you know what it costs the U.S. government to produce 12 $100 bills? About 72 cents. So which is better to hold....those 12 pieces of cotton, or that 1 lump of metal?
Its true that you cannot eat paper money, nor gold bullion. But you cant eat your mattress, your car, your dining room set, or most hard assets in the world either. I can fill my basement with canned spam for about $3,000 tomorrow. Then buy a water purification pump for $200. Then buy a shotgun and 1,000 rounds for about $700. So, I can spend about $4,000 to cover my most basic needs for a SHTF scenario tomorrow. But what to do with the rest of my money? GOLD is the answer! The guy with the gun, food AND gold will have a much better shot than the guy with just the gun and the food.
<< <i>
<< <i>People overrate the value of gold and what it means to the economy. The dollar may be fiat paper but gold is just fiat rock. You cant eat drink or breathe gold and in SHTF scenario the gold wont stop the looting and savagry. Gold is idealised because our history books speak of the hoardes of men traveling distant oceans in search of gold. But these were men on commision by VERY rich kings who had the luxury to pursue just that, the luxury of gold. Hungry people dont go looking for gold.
All that being said, while inflation is quantified with talk of real estate markets and value in gold and silver rations, one fact remains. Food is cheap. It has not risen at the inflation rate of luxuries like mansions and cars and everything else we measure wealth by. how much did bread and water cost in the 1890s compared to what your typical worker made per week? And how much does your typical 10$ an hour gorcery clerk today make in relation to that same bread and water meal? I bet if you can quantify that, the true neccecites are cheaper. But our newfound poverty is really measure of our newfound entitlement that we should all live like movie stars, because we value these people more than so many other more important people out there in the real world, and if we dont live like the people we see on TV we are losers. If we dont live in a house with a pool and 5 bedrooms we did something wrong. If we dont go out and spend 10$ a drink at a fancy bar every weekend we are losers. But the truth is we can eat better than the 80 hour a week worker from 1890 with much less relative money. A gallon of water can be had for 50 cents. A full meal for 4 can be had with 1 hour of work. Its just our standards of personal entitlement have inflated. >>
If gold is really just "fiat rock", then you should be able to get it by the truckload for almost nothing. There is nothing "fiat" about gold. It takes a defined amount of labor to produce an ounce of gold, and that is currently around $660 for the global average. Do you know what it costs the U.S. government to produce 12 $100 bills? About 72 cents. So which is better to hold....those 12 pieces of cotton, or that 1 lump of metal?
Its true that you cannot eat paper money, nor gold bullion. But you cant eat your mattress, your car, your dining room set, or most hard assets in the world either. I can fill my basement with canned spam for about $3,000 tomorrow. Then buy a water purification pump for $200. Then buy a shotgun and 1,000 rounds for about $700. So, I can spend about $4,000 to cover my most basic needs for a SHTF scenario tomorrow. But what to do with the rest of my money? GOLD is the answer! The guy with the gun, food AND gold will have a much better shot than the guy with just the gun and the food. >>
If 100$ bills is really just "fiat paper", then you should be able to get it by the truckload for almost nothing
I didn't really see the light on gold until early in 2005 when I started buying. I stopped buying in 2008. Still buying silver which I think is a better "bargain" today. I agree with your premise.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>People overrate the value of gold and what it means to the economy. The dollar may be fiat paper but gold is just fiat rock. You cant eat drink or breathe gold and in SHTF scenario the gold wont stop the looting and savagry. Gold is idealised because our history books speak of the hoardes of men traveling distant oceans in search of gold. But these were men on commision by VERY rich kings who had the luxury to pursue just that, the luxury of gold. Hungry people dont go looking for gold.
All that being said, while inflation is quantified with talk of real estate markets and value in gold and silver rations, one fact remains. Food is cheap. It has not risen at the inflation rate of luxuries like mansions and cars and everything else we measure wealth by. how much did bread and water cost in the 1890s compared to what your typical worker made per week? And how much does your typical 10$ an hour gorcery clerk today make in relation to that same bread and water meal? I bet if you can quantify that, the true neccecites are cheaper. But our newfound poverty is really measure of our newfound entitlement that we should all live like movie stars, because we value these people more than so many other more important people out there in the real world, and if we dont live like the people we see on TV we are losers. If we dont live in a house with a pool and 5 bedrooms we did something wrong. If we dont go out and spend 10$ a drink at a fancy bar every weekend we are losers. But the truth is we can eat better than the 80 hour a week worker from 1890 with much less relative money. A gallon of water can be had for 50 cents. A full meal for 4 can be had with 1 hour of work. Its just our standards of personal entitlement have inflated. >>
If gold is really just "fiat rock", then you should be able to get it by the truckload for almost nothing. There is nothing "fiat" about gold. It takes a defined amount of labor to produce an ounce of gold, and that is currently around $660 for the global average. Do you know what it costs the U.S. government to produce 12 $100 bills? About 72 cents. So which is better to hold....those 12 pieces of cotton, or that 1 lump of metal?
Its true that you cannot eat paper money, nor gold bullion. But you cant eat your mattress, your car, your dining room set, or most hard assets in the world either. I can fill my basement with canned spam for about $3,000 tomorrow. Then buy a water purification pump for $200. Then buy a shotgun and 1,000 rounds for about $700. So, I can spend about $4,000 to cover my most basic needs for a SHTF scenario tomorrow. But what to do with the rest of my money? GOLD is the answer! The guy with the gun, food AND gold will have a much better shot than the guy with just the gun and the food. >>
If 100$ bills is really just "fiat paper", then you should be able to get it by the truckload for almost nothing >>
And certain entities do!.....just look at any clip of the U.S. Bureau of Printing and Engraving as they print up MASSIVE amounts of cash for just 6 cents per note!
Carol and DW will have to set you straight about these forums
When I was visiting Great Britain a number of years ago, I was surprised to learn where this saying comes from.
Very nice read David. My first thought was also that of Andy's... that a few years ago, it would have taken nearly 1,000 ozs. of gold to buy that house!! After considering that, I begin to wonder if I should sell some of my gold and buy some homes in your old neighborhood!!
Wondercoin
anyway, it is fiat in the thought that counts terms right now. debt debt debt and deficits deficits deficits and politicians that don't know any other way. and don't forget the trade imbalances. out of the 3, the trade imbalances seem toughest to fix.
I'd think the dollar's value would be much much worse if so many countries didn't hold so much of it. Also, I'm thinking it is in the "national security" interest to keep it propped up, so I wonder if some behind the scenes calls would not be made one day to US institutions to prop it up if necessary. Right now, I'm thinking the canary in the coal mine will be the treasuries and US corp. debt. Once countries start off loading these, they'll feel much freer to sell the dollar.
Still, don't forget it wasn't thast long ago the pound was buying two dollars, and the UK has a bit of a head start on us with fixing some of their problems (though I haven't heard word about the UK trade imbalances in the national news.)
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Just for giggles, a barrel of oil is up 27x since 1962. At its peak in 2007 was 51x. But in 1998 was only up 4.2x. Its all about sunshine.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Your source David? This is a statement that only a person currently holding coins would delude themselves in believing.
A coin as a collectible is no more of an investment than a comic book, a stamp or a sculpture. Since the middle class is eroding, only coins that are obtainable by the rich have much hope for significant growth in the future. As the rich continue to become richer, by transferring wealth from the middle class, they will need to find a way to spend their money. The greatest rarities will have the best growth. The coins that belong to the middle class aren't going to be a "better hedge against the dollar than plain gold bullion". Unless, the coins you speak of are the ultra rarities.
<< <i>This written 10 years ago would have drawn great laughter. As MrEureka stated timing is everything. All asset classes have their day in the sun. Today the sun is shining on gold.
Just for giggles, a barrel of oil is up 27x since 1962. At its peak in 2007 was 51x. But in 1998 was only up 4.2x. Its all about sunshine. >>
10 years ago we werent 13 TRILLION in debt either. Unless you think the debt will either stop growing, or even start declining then the future of gold is as bright as the metal itself.
A loaf of bread was 25 cents...a Der Weinerschneitzel hot dog (with chilli, cheese, and onions) was 15 cents...a gallon of gas was 29.9 cents, except during gas wars when it would go a low as 23.9...and I remember one day at 19.9 cents. A movie was a quarter...popcorn a dime...a pack of baseball cards (5 pieces and a stick of gum) was 5 cents.
Those are the prices I remember from 1962.
Coin Prices I remember from 1962...an uncirculated Morgan or Peace dollar...a little over a dollar :-)...in 1966, I bought rolls of Gem S-Mint Morgans for $30 a roll....20 coins, $1.50 a coin. I was paying a premiun over the going rate of $28 a roll for anything (like the O-Mints and P-Mints) because the S-Mint rolls had such nice coins.
A few coin prices I remember from the early 1970's...a $4 Stella was $4500...Gem BU Barber dimes were $15
Not trying to sound like an old-timer...but prices of most things...in terms of the U.S. dollar...are way higher than they were in the past.
Not every coin is higher...BU 1950-D nickels, for example, are considerably lower than they were in 1962.
Other collectibles have also run-up. I bought the finest known 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle (PSA graded Gem Mint 10) in 1993 for $50,000. Sold it in 1998 for $120,000. Thought I cut a fat hog. Today 9s are bringing $250,000 and the owner of my old card turned down a million bucks for it...that's how smart I am :-(
Coins...if you by the right ones and your timing is decent...have been great financially. And even better...they sure are a lot of fun.
Kind of surprised at the anti-gold sentiment, but like I said, I'm not making any predictions about the price. And whenever I do I'm usually wrong. But the fact is, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined dramatically in the past few decades. Anybody here...pro-gold or anti-gold...disagree with that.
PS...I hope Carol doesn't boot me off the boards or Willis doesn't fire me...cause I think the price of gold is part of the coin market.
hrh
<< <i>I had my first job in 1962....sweeping up a drapery shop at night...minimum wage...$1.05 an hour.
A loaf of bread was 25 cents...a Der Weinerschneitzel hot dog (with chilli, cheese, and onions) was 15 cents...a gallon of gas was 29.9 cents, except during gas wars when it would go a low as 23.9...and I remember one day at 19.9 cents. A movie was a quarter...popcorn a dime...a pack of baseball cards (5 pieces and a stick of gum) was 5 cents.
Those are the prices I remember from 1962.
Coin Prices I remember from 1962...an uncirculated Morgan or Peace dollar...a little over a dollar :-)...in 1966, I bought rolls of Gem S-Mint Morgans for $30 a roll....20 coins, $1.50 a coin. I was paying a premiun over the going rate of $28 a roll for anything (like the O-Mints and P-Mints) because the S-Mint rolls had such nice coins.
A few coin prices I remember from the early 1970's...a $4 Stella was $4500...Gem BU Barber dimes were $15
Not trying to sound like an old-timer...but prices of most things...in terms of the U.S. dollar...are way higher than they were in the past.
Not every coin is higher...BU 1950-D nickels, for example, are considerably lower than they were in 1962.
Other collectibles have also run-up. I bought the finest known 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle (PSA graded Gem Mint 10) in 1993 for $50,000. Sold it in 1998 for $120,000. Thought I cut a fat hog. Today 9s are bringing $250,000 and the owner of my old card turned down a million bucks for it...that's how smart I am :-(
Coins...if you by the right ones and your timing is decent...have been great financially. And even better...they sure are a lot of fun.
Kind of surprised at the anti-gold sentiment, but like I said, I'm not making any predictions about the price. And whenever I do I'm usually wrong. But the fact is, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined dramatically in the past few decades. Anybody here...pro-gold or anti-gold...disagree with that.
PS...I hope Carol doesn't boot me off the boards or Willis doesn't fire me...cause I think the price of gold is part of the coin market.
hrh >>
Great memories, HRH!!!!!
Almost brought a tear to my eyes!!!!
Thank You!!!
Is gold a solid commodity investment? Probably not, if you are buying bullion that you actually hold in your hands. The premiums you pay are much higher than if you bought gold through an investment house and only held the paper. Although, a portion of your investments in a metal fund would be a smart move to balance a portfolio.
Purchasing gold that you can hold in your hand is a hedge against social collapse of this country. Anarchy - as one person implied - spam, water shotgun and gold is all you need. I find this way of thinking quite small. It has a fundamental lack of faith in your fellow Americans and your fellow man. Keep watching Glenn Beck and buy your gold from Goldline. Fear is what drives you. link
David, comparing Gold against the dollar is not fair in the least. Of course gold does well against the dollar. The Fed prints more money and devalues the dollar. That's the system we built, like it or not. But why not invest in gasoline? How about a "movie or popcorn or a pack of baseball cards"? They have all done much better than the U.S. dollar. My example is just about as dumb as comparing gold to the dollar. You need to compare gold to other investments, not to a currency.
AB
PS... "hrh" i do not believe you have to worry anytime soon about getting thrown off the board or getting fired...
why compare gold vs. the dollar?
In the major futures markets trading gold, gold is denominated solely in US dollars. London, NY, Hong Kong, and Sydney all denominate their futures contracts in US$.
So as the value of the US$ falls, gold will need to increase in value to keep the price constant in another country's unpegged currency. (HK is one country with a peg)
Also, one would not want to stock pile popcorn, which might be infested with insects over the decades.
<< <i>I heard a saying once and i think it might apply to Gold. What goes up must come down. I also wish i could just buy gold cause i feel like it but my dollar keeps shrinking. >>
If you think your dollar is shrinking now, you ain't seen nothin' yet! As soon as the government stop subsidizing the banks with 0% loans and then borrowing from them with interest, the banks will be forced to lend to small businesses. The cash will then flow into the system, money will be easy to get and inflation is going to take off.
<< <i>why compare gold vs. the dollar?
In the major futures markets trading gold, gold is denominated solely in US dollars. London, NY, Hong Kong, and Sydney all denominate their futures contracts in US$.
So as the value of the US$ falls, gold will need to increase in value to keep the price constant in another country's unpegged currency. (HK is one country with a peg)
Also, one would not want to stock pile popcorn, which might be infested with insects over the decades. >>
I think everyone will agree with those facts, however they do not mean what people think it means. Yes the value of gold is pegged to the dollar because that is how it is paid for, same with crude. However the value of the dollar is not pegged to gold. It is pegged to other currencies at the market level, and in more real terms, it is pegged to the goods we buy with it, such as food and water, whatevr you deem to be essentials. Gold in that regard is an afterthought. It just goes along for the ride with the dollar. And it does so for the simple reason that an illusion was created, many centuries ago, that gold was real money. And back then it was. But thats not the case anymore. You cant go to the market and pay in gold. Visa doesnt accept payment in gold. Et cetera. That wasnt the case 5oo years ago. Gold only has value if we agree that it does. And as such it makes it no differnet than paper or the seashells the Native Americans used. It's all fiat. Just because it is finite and harder to get out of the ground doesnt make it some godly money in the realm of ideals. We must agree to it. There are plenty of rare things expensive to extract that were never money. Gold was just agreed as such. If a SHTF scenario were to hit I get the feeling today's societies will put little value on gold. Maybe after the 30 years of rioting and looting and survival of the fittest, the remaining civilized would agree on something being money again, and gold would be a good candidate again im sure, but that would be so far down the line that I think wed see a million things more valuable than gold until then. Ammo would be one for sure"For the record I dont believe a long term SHTF sceanrio would happen. Maybe a few years of depression and distress but nothing out of Mad Max Thunderdome or Turner Diaries)
<< <i>I had my first job in 1962....sweeping up a drapery shop at night...minimum wage...$1.05 an hour.
A loaf of bread was 25 cents...a Der Weinerschneitzel hot dog (with chilli, cheese, and onions) was 15 cents...a gallon of gas was 29.9 cents, except during gas wars when it would go a low as 23.9...and I remember one day at 19.9 cents. A movie was a quarter...popcorn a dime...a pack of baseball cards (5 pieces and a stick of gum) was 5 cents.
Those are the prices I remember from 1962.
Coin Prices I remember from 1962...an uncirculated Morgan or Peace dollar...a little over a dollar :-)...in 1966, I bought rolls of Gem S-Mint Morgans for $30 a roll....20 coins, $1.50 a coin. I was paying a premiun over the going rate of $28 a roll for anything (like the O-Mints and P-Mints) because the S-Mint rolls had such nice coins.
A few coin prices I remember from the early 1970's...a $4 Stella was $4500...Gem BU Barber dimes were $15
Not trying to sound like an old-timer...but prices of most things...in terms of the U.S. dollar...are way higher than they were in the past.
Not every coin is higher...BU 1950-D nickels, for example, are considerably lower than they were in 1962.
Other collectibles have also run-up. I bought the finest known 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle (PSA graded Gem Mint 10) in 1993 for $50,000. Sold it in 1998 for $120,000. Thought I cut a fat hog. Today 9s are bringing $250,000 and the owner of my old card turned down a million bucks for it...that's how smart I am :-(
Coins...if you by the right ones and your timing is decent...have been great financially. And even better...they sure are a lot of fun.
Kind of surprised at the anti-gold sentiment, but like I said, I'm not making any predictions about the price. And whenever I do I'm usually wrong. But the fact is, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined dramatically in the past few decades. Anybody here...pro-gold or anti-gold...disagree with that.
PS...I hope Carol doesn't boot me off the boards or Willis doesn't fire me...cause I think the price of gold is part of the coin market.
hrh >>
I didnt read the Blod until I read this, and this brought me back to better times, nice read. I really enjoyed the Blod as well. I feel what Mr. Hall has stated is true. My folks bought a house in California in 1966 for 12k but it didnt have a swimming pool
The key is that depending upon the time and asset class you're investing in you will have wildly different results. A buy and hold strategy in real worked for decades...until 2007. Gold was a horrendous long term investment until a few years ago.
The best advice I can give and follow myself is buy whatever everyone else is dumping and sell whatever everyone is fighting over.
Just no Beanie Babies.
As usual, David is totally on top of things. Number of ounces is key.
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I'm actually not. The uber intelligent will tell you it is a rock with no intrinsic value and throws off no interest. The same geniuses will swear their alligence on the US dollar and the fiat system. I will simply state golds function IMO is as merely financial insurance and a store of wealth. Financial insurance should be at a premium these days and gold reflects that. Become your own Central Bank with accumaltion of gold or let The Fed dictate it for you. The choice is up to the individual. David, I'm guessing you did alright preserving your wealth along the way the last 48 years.......MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>why compare gold vs. the dollar?
In the major futures markets trading gold, gold is denominated solely in US dollars. London, NY, Hong Kong, and Sydney all denominate their futures contracts in US$.
So as the value of the US$ falls, gold will need to increase in value to keep the price constant in another country's unpegged currency. (HK is one country with a peg)
Also, one would not want to stock pile popcorn, which might be infested with insects over the decades. >>
I think everyone will agree with those facts, however they do not mean what people think it means. Yes the value of gold is pegged to the dollar because that is how it is paid for, same with crude. However the value of the dollar is not pegged to gold. It is pegged to other currencies at the market level, and in more real terms, it is pegged to the goods we buy with it, such as food and water, whatevr you deem to be essentials. Gold in that regard is an afterthought. It just goes along for the ride with the dollar. And it does so for the simple reason that an illusion was created, many centuries ago, that gold was real money. And back then it was. But thats not the case anymore. You cant go to the market and pay in gold. Visa doesnt accept payment in gold. Et cetera. That wasnt the case 5oo years ago. Gold only has value if we agree that it does. And as such it makes it no differnet than paper or the seashells the Native Americans used. It's all fiat. Just because it is finite and harder to get out of the ground doesnt make it some godly money in the realm of ideals. We must agree to it. There are plenty of rare things expensive to extract that were never money. Gold was just agreed as such. If a SHTF scenario were to hit I get the feeling today's societies will put little value on gold. Maybe after the 30 years of rioting and looting and survival of the fittest, the remaining civilized would agree on something being money again, and gold would be a good candidate again im sure, but that would be so far down the line that I think wed see a million things more valuable than gold until then. Ammo would be one for sure"For the record I dont believe a long term SHTF sceanrio would happen. Maybe a few years of depression and distress but nothing out of Mad Max Thunderdome or Turner Diaries) >>
Not Mad Max no. But the monetary systems are heading to tilt. Gold and silver bullion/coinage will help you survive.
Gold is not pegged to the dollar, it's a currency. A worldwide reserve currency, THE currency, all major countries have a Gold Reserve. The US dollar is heading to extinction. Gold and Silver has always been real money, and
the only real money that is possible. Those are the rules set by God, not men (see the Bible). Paper money is an abomination. Any other thought is just the brainwashing the current in-power parties for the past 50 years have been teaching, that Gold is not money. This is a false doctrine designed to keep those in power as long as possible. That time is almost over.
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Nice double entendre and Triple Lindy for that matter...........
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Blod...as I said...I admire Laura and am trying to emulate her in every way.... >>
A bar of gold is just a bar of inert metal, neither growing nor giving memories and substance to our lives.
The value of each is not comparable in money.
A bar of gold is just a bar of inert metal, neither growing nor giving memories and substance to our lives.
The value of each is not comparable in money.
this is a great point... if the parents hadn't bought the house and had bought gold instead, they would have had to rent a house.
Also, was there a mortgage? the amount paid over time may have exceeded the purchase price.
Finally, was the house bought in 1960 or 1962? was it 1500 or 2500 sq. ft? and did it cost $12K or $14K?
there seem to be some discrepancies between this blod and the Feb2 blod (unless we're talking about 2 different houses)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Blod...as I said...I admire Laura and am trying to emulate her in every way.... >>
Perhaps ALMOST in every way?
<< <i>MsMorrisine, you may have misunderstood my point. If you had a choice of taking $10K and stuffing it in your mattress long term or buying gold, what would you do? You would buy gold, of course. Only an idiot wouldn't. This is the premise of David's point. It's stating the obvious. Now compare gold to other investments i.e. stocks, bonds, real estate, and then you have a real debate. Compare collectibles to any of those other investment types and you will see why TPG coins are not a major investment type. The investing public figured out the truth in 1989. link >>
one could pull up similar graphs for dot.com stocks... biotech stocks...
that's more a chasing returns point and "sector" rotation point to me.
Canary in the coal mine for collectibles in general??
This was supposed to generate the largest results yet. It's being called a disappointment.
Christie's in Record London Sale, Misses Target and Monet Water-Lily Painting Fails to Sell
the take is home the question.... are people getting tight with their money again? (fearing a double dip?)
<< <i>I had my first job in 1962....sweeping up a drapery shop at night...minimum wage...$1.05 an hour.
A loaf of bread was 25 cents...a Der Weinerschneitzel hot dog (with chilli, cheese, and onions) was 15 cents...a gallon of gas was 29.9 cents, except during gas wars when it would go a low as 23.9...and I remember one day at 19.9 cents. A movie was a quarter...popcorn a dime...a pack of baseball cards (5 pieces and a stick of gum) was 5 cents.
Those are the prices I remember from 1962.
Coin Prices I remember from 1962...an uncirculated Morgan or Peace dollar...a little over a dollar :-)...in 1966, I bought rolls of Gem S-Mint Morgans for $30 a roll....20 coins, $1.50 a coin. I was paying a premiun over the going rate of $28 a roll for anything (like the O-Mints and P-Mints) because the S-Mint rolls had such nice coins.
A few coin prices I remember from the early 1970's...a $4 Stella was $4500...Gem BU Barber dimes were $15
Not trying to sound like an old-timer...but prices of most things...in terms of the U.S. dollar...are way higher than they were in the past.
Not every coin is higher...BU 1950-D nickels, for example, are considerably lower than they were in 1962.
Other collectibles have also run-up. I bought the finest known 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle (PSA graded Gem Mint 10) in 1993 for $50,000. Sold it in 1998 for $120,000. Thought I cut a fat hog. Today 9s are bringing $250,000 and the owner of my old card turned down a million bucks for it...that's how smart I am :-(
Coins...if you by the right ones and your timing is decent...have been great financially. And even better...they sure are a lot of fun.
Kind of surprised at the anti-gold sentiment, but like I said, I'm not making any predictions about the price. And whenever I do I'm usually wrong. But the fact is, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined dramatically in the past few decades. Anybody here...pro-gold or anti-gold...disagree with that.
PS...I hope Carol doesn't boot me off the boards or Willis doesn't fire me...cause I think the price of gold is part of the coin market.
hrh >>
Folks equate the value of gold against the dollar which is not really what you are saying.
Gold is universally tangible regardless of currency but the American Dollar is "relative" in value against other currencies.
To put it bluntly, if the American Dollar ever becomes worthless, the flat 100$ bills stuck away in a matress will be just as worthless but those gold rocks will still have value against some other currency.
The name is LEE!
Whomever is thinking that I would not call an "expert."