Centering Dots
blu62vette
Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a curisoity question. The image below has a "centering dot" if that is the right term. My understanding is that this is a mark used in the process of centering the dies or something like that. Anyone have more info? My main question is when was this method used and on what coins? I have seen it several times on large cents but now I see it on a 1795 half. Had never noticed one on silver before and was curious of that was normal. Image of the half to follow in a day or so......
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-Paul
<< <i>It is the point in the center of the die where the engraver put his compass point as he laid out the design. --Jerry >>
Agree. Many early coins have this feature. If you draw a circle throught the stars, the exact center of this circle is where you will find the raised pimple.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Thanks for the info. I think the dots add a cool look. Are they as common on silver coins? >>
Yes. I've seen them on early gold also.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Never mind I just checked the date on the die trial piece shown and see it was still used later than that.
There are several Morgans that have the raised dots as well. However, they are not in the center of the
coin and I have no clue as to what they were used for. I've seen dots near the M initial on the front. Dots under
the wings and near the arrowheads on the reverse. Of course they used dashes under the 8's for date
placement but not dots. Interesting topic!
bob
<< <i>Todd,
There are several Morgans that have the raised dots as well. However, they are not in the center of the
coin and I have no clue as to what they were used for. I've seen dots near the M initial on the front. Dots under
the wings and near the arrowheads on the reverse. Of course they used dashes under the 8's for date
placement but not dots. Interesting topic!
bob >>
I thought those were used when they are checking the die to see if it was still good?
Edit: By that I mean they were checking the hardness of the die.
<< <i>Todd,
There are several Morgans that have the raised dots as well. However, they are not in the center of the
coin and I have no clue as to what they were used for. I've seen dots near the M initial on the front. Dots under
the wings and near the arrowheads on the reverse. Of course they used dashes under the 8's for date
placement but not dots. Interesting topic!
bob >>
The mint added these dots on purpose to create VAM varieties so that future collectors would have something to cherry pick from coin dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1795 FH Dollar dot on neck below ear lobe
1795 FH Half Dime dot just behind ear lobe & next to Eagle's body at top of wing
1795 Half Cent
1814 Classic Cent
1807 Dime dot in hair below & left of ear
1837 R. E. Half Dollar (Courtesy L. Whitlow, Mike Printz) not my coin.
This is a "Compass point" most likely from the master hub and is recessed into the coin.
These features are sometimes present on Philadelphia mint quarters from 1847-49
and 1854-58, also on 1857 quarter eagles and possibly other gold coin issues.
An interesting thread regarding this feature can be found Here
This variety is mentioned & pictorialized in Jules Reiver's Variety Identification Manual for U.S. Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836-1839.
It is the 1837 JR 12 variety. This is not mentioned in Breen for the Reeded Edge, but is mentioned for the above referenced quarters
and quarter eagles, for the 1848-P issue as "a tiny round hole" and others on occasion as "a hollow point" in the left shield area.
R.I.P. Bear
This 1808 O-107 has four unusually placed centering dots, near the usual place.
On 1809-36 Bust Half Dollars the centering dot is usually between the fourth and fifth shield crossbars, at the upper left.
On this 1823 O-105, the crossbar stopped short of the dot.
In the Capped Bust Half Dollar series, the differences in centering dots alone, could be a collectible series.
Show some Gold coins with a center dot.
R.I.P. Bear
Lance.
I hope they ask this question on Jeopardy real soon. I'm sure to get it right.
WTB: Barber Quarters XF
<< <i>This hub trial shows what Jerry is describing. It's easy to see the center point that was made with one leg of a compass and the circles that were scribed with the other for placement of the letters. I should mention that the picture is an optical illusion. On a hub trial, which mimics a die, the portrait and letters are incuse as well as reversed.
Love this picture, because with the center dot and the scribed lines, you would think the letters would be spot on perfect, but a bunch of the bust halves have letters all over the place.
Great post.
It's an instructive piece.