How come there is no discussion of The Big One??

dbcoin · April 7, 2010 1:11AM

Everyone is talking about the second initiative, Plus Grading. There has to be 20 threads on it. NGC will have Plus Grades in about 60 days as well. Maybe they are smart to wait and learn from the mistakes.

Yet no threads on The Big One: laser scanning so as to fingerprint a coin, which will thwart coin doctors.

I'll start. I am guessing that all coins over a certain dollar amount are being fingerprinted whether you are paying for Secure Plus or not. PCGS was doing all this 700 point grading for 6 months prior to announcing, so who is to say they aren't already laser scanning all coins right now? I think this goes a long way to thwart gradeflation and coin doctors. Aren't these positives for the hobby? And if this is a hobby, why is everyone so concerned about a + ??

Placid · April 7, 2010 1:15AM

Boring

coinguy1 · April 7, 2010 1:17AM

My guess is that most people are focused on the more immediate/short term benefits of "plus" grading and the $, rather than the future benefits and applications of the fingerprinting. I believe that the latter is far more important and potentially beneficial to the hobby.

Billet7 · April 7, 2010 1:18AM

It may be because few of us actually have coins that are affected by the introduction of the laser scanning, but most of us are affected by the "plus" designation, especially with the "quarterly grading special."

PawPaul · April 7, 2010 1:47AM

....What big one ?

illini420 · April 7, 2010 1:48AM

Since SecurePlus isn't mandatory at this time, folks can easily circumvent the process by submitting under the normal grading procedures. That significantly diminishes the Big One benefit provided by the new technology against those who resubmit the same coin repeatedly and against those who have doctored coins.

dbcoin · April 7, 2010 2:05AM

My assumption was that PCGS is putting coins through the laser scanner even if you don't ask for it.

ocon4008 · April 7, 2010 2:28AM

<>

I agree; the data bases that are being built will be marketable.

291fifth · April 7, 2010 2:33AM

Coin collectors and dealers are very "investment/profit" oriented. They are interested in what will make them money, and quickly. "+" equals quick money.

Laser stuff really isn't what they care about.

ricko · April 7, 2010 3:08AM

It is all about the Benjamins..... You must realize, that many have no regard for the hobby beyond making money. True collectors are a minority here, although far more common in the total coin populace. For the most part, if it does not promise profit, it gets a back seat on this forum. Not to say there are no collectors, do not misconstrue my comments. However, it is the profit motive that generates the most threads. Cheers, RickO

adamlaneus · April 7, 2010 3:11AM

I'm really torn about the new laser fingerprinting service. I mean, I really don't want fingerprints on my coins. I don't want to have to crack and dip it later if the fingerprint starts bothering me.

sinin1 · April 7, 2010 3:17AM

true collectors probably could care less

and besides with all the fore play with tempting and teasing
and the giant release

most people are just laying back, having a smoke, and quietly saying how good it was

I predict it will be a couple years before the impact to the industry is truly felt

doh · April 7, 2010 4:15AM

<< Since SecurePlus isn't mandatory at this time, folks can easily circumvent the process by submitting under the normal grading procedures. That significantly diminishes the Big One benefit provided by the new technology against those who resubmit the same coin repeatedly and against those who have doctored coins. >>

Bingo.

tjc2120 · April 7, 2010 4:52AM

I don't collect at the secure plus level but I do appreciate the coins that are at that level. I want them to stay preserved and appreciate PCGS's efforts to put up barriers to further doctoring.

It seems the move to plus grades requires it - without a deterrent such as laser ID, plus grading would only increase the incentive to resubmit or doctor and resubmit.

I hope it works as intended but people become clever when money is the motivation.

joebb21 · April 7, 2010 4:55AM

Pcgs is not stupid.

Just because you dont pay for the secure plus holder,doesnt mean they didnt scan it. It just means they wont grade it with a +.

The whole point of the scanning was to limit doctoring- as well as pcgs' liability with buy back coins.

The regular submission coins are just the same way getting scanned as the secure plus ones. The second time you send a coin in unslabbed, if it looks different (whichever service you request-the secure plus or the regular one) it will get bb'ed.

Gemineye · April 7, 2010 5:22AM

<< How come there is no discussion of The Big One??
>>

Are you talkin' about coins or the big toe...?!!?......Oh....!!!..I guess your talking about coins....Well I have two big toes..and I'm out shopping for a big something or another...that could be the big one....!!!

magikbilly · April 7, 2010 5:24AM

Hi there,

I have been wondering of what value the new product is for new submissions is when relatively small numbers of coins have been scanned thus far. Wouldn't PCGS have to have seen the coin at least once before for the systrem to kick in beyond them gathering data? I have also been wondering why one should be charged extra to contribute to a database (Secure Plus scan) one must then pay to access? I dunno - I probably got this all wrong.

Best,
Eric

telephoto1 · April 7, 2010 6:22AM

Devil's advocate time...
Have any collectors out there given any thought to the potential ramifications of having digital records/laser "fingerprints" of all your stuff in files not under your control, and potentially accessible by others-including big brother? Certainly this would make it a lot easier for someone to track buyers and sellers of said items, yes? I got three letters for ya...IRS.

sinin1 · April 7, 2010 7:12AM

telephoto, I see no way that IRS could be more involved than currently

and as long as playing devils advocate, have any trials been done to see if the lasers cause cancer?
on the coin or the people holding the coin after 5 years, 10 years,....

Lewy · April 7, 2010 11:03PM

ponderit · April 7, 2010 11:22PM

<< ....What big one ? >>

I think I heard Rosie was coming back?

ponderit · April 7, 2010 11:26PM

<< Devil's advocate time...
Have any collectors out there given any thought to the potential ramifications of having digital records/laser "fingerprints" of all your stuff in files not under your control, and potentially accessible by others-including big brother? Certainly this would make it a lot easier for someone to track buyers and sellers of said items, yes? I got three letters for ya...IRS.

>>

This might be a dumb question, Lord knows I'm good at them, but when the coin is "fingerprinted" is the owner of said coin also recorded? To me that becomes an infringement on my privacy; it's nobody's friggin business what I own or might have owned.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 7, 2010 11:40PM

Imagine what that scan will see

telephoto1 · April 10, 2010 1:58AM

<< 

<< Devil's advocate time...
Have any collectors out there given any thought to the potential ramifications of having digital records/laser "fingerprints" of all your stuff in files not under your control, and potentially accessible by others-including big brother? Certainly this would make it a lot easier for someone to track buyers and sellers of said items, yes? I got three letters for ya...IRS.

>>

This might be a dumb question, Lord knows I'm good at them, but when the coin is "fingerprinted" is the owner of said coin also recorded? To me that becomes an infringement on my privacy; it's nobody's friggin business what I own or might have owned. >>

Well, seeing how one of the big selling points of the Big One is that it is supposedly going to help make it easier to track down and return your stolen coins, then logic would dictate that you would need to be recorded as the owner someplace in the system. Otherwise, what's the point? This is what I'm saying.

Coinosaurus · April 10, 2010 2:38AM

Five, ten years down the road, the "big one" could be very big.

PCGS is going to develop a digital archive that may give them a huge edge on the industry.

Bear · April 10, 2010 6:48AM

The finger of fate, having written

then moves on.

bidask · April 10, 2010 7:39AM

Do you think pcgs will license the scanning technology to ngc for the betterment of the hobby in stampning out gradeflation and doctors?

seemyauction · April 10, 2010 10:23AM

<< Do you think pcgs will license the scanning technology to ngc for the betterment of the hobby in stampning out gradeflation and doctors? >>

its not new technology......just new to PCGS.

magikbilly · April 13, 2010 1:48AM

"PCGS is going to develop a digital archive that may give them a huge edge on the industry"

People will resubmit for the "plus" and the coins get scanned at a fee, then when you submit in the future your coins will be compared the the database you created wirth your own coins AND paid for and you will get charged...again

I still want to know what the value of the service is now as most coins have not been submitted and the scanning thing will have need to have seen your coin twice before it kics in.....it can only become morw accrrurate as coiuns are scanned - are we getting full value now or will the price go up when there are really a lot of coins to compare and it works as fully intended?

Eric

garrynot · April 13, 2010 2:10AM

<< Five, ten years down the road, the "big one" could be very big.

PCGS is going to develop a digital archive that may give them a huge edge on the industry. >>

The TPGs have probably been phortographing every coin that comes thru for years.

Unknown · April 14, 2010 3:41AM

This content has been removed.

BillJones · April 14, 2010 3:53AM

There is no up side to discussing it here, and the topic doesn't interest me very much. I've collected coins for many years, and have a lot of certified pieces. I'm not getting my collecton re-graded. And when I buy coins, I buy the coins like. I don't by them because of green footballs and other qualifies. End of subject.

coinguy1 · April 14, 2010 4:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< Devil's advocate time...
Have any collectors out there given any thought to the potential ramifications of having digital records/laser "fingerprints" of all your stuff in files not under your control, and potentially accessible by others-including big brother? Certainly this would make it a lot easier for someone to track buyers and sellers of said items, yes? I got three letters for ya...IRS.

>>

This might be a dumb question, Lord knows I'm good at them, but when the coin is "fingerprinted" is the owner of said coin also recorded? To me that becomes an infringement on my privacy; it's nobody's friggin business what I own or might have owned. >>

Well, seeing how one of the big selling points of the Big One is that it is supposedly going to help make it easier to track down and return your stolen coins, then logic would dictate that you would need to be recorded as the owner someplace in the system. Otherwise, what's the point? This is what I'm saying. >>

But often, the submitter is not the owner. And even if he is, the next owner's identity wont be known.

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · April 14, 2010 6:27PM

<< Coin collectors and dealers are very "investment/profit" oriented. They are interested in what will make them money, and quickly. "+" equals quick money.

Laser stuff really isn't what they care about. >>

I think dealers fall into that category, but I wouldn't say "collectors" in general are "interested in what will make them money, and quickly.".

Anyone buying to quickly turn a profit, to me, is not a collector, and calling them that gives true collectors a bad name.

I do agree, however, with the non-interest in the laser stuff.

As a collector, the "Big One" is a "non-big one".

How come there is no discussion of The Big One??

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