The Big One / HRH $1K = Stake Your Claim Here!
Artist
Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭
Okay - so who came the closest with their guesses as to what The Big One might be?
Back on February 9, (although admittedly it was only part of a larger scenario...) I posted the following:
"True View photos would be rendered at the time of grading or on a resubmission basis and would then be voluntarily entered into the 'forum' database. There might even be some special addition made to the label of the slab denoting that the coin is now in the system.
When a coin is to be made available for sale, it would go back to PCGS for updated photos to be used for its current listing, that would then go on to accompany the original photos that were taken at the time of grading or when the coin was first entered into the system.
Potential customers could then browse not just coins that are for sale, but all coins that exist in the system! This photo archive, could also potentially be linked to coin-facts in order to provide serious researchers with an incredible amount of material. Likewise this photo archive could also be linked to corresponding Registry Sets in order to serve competitors ina similar manner. Taken collectively, this would add many more wrinkles to the problems faced by coin doctors & counterfeiters alike, as it would make it all but impossible to alter existing material, and bring additional scrutiny to new significant coins entering the system for the first time, especially if their origins cannot be quantified.
Maintaining a permanent photo archive would also document coins changing inside their slabs - the progression copper going from red to brown, milk spots, gold putty, or 'Manofcoins' style tampering would all be documented as it was occurring, and could perhaps then be addressed appropriately."
Am I close? Let the judging begin!
Conversely, what claims can you all make?? Let's hear 'em!
Back on February 9, (although admittedly it was only part of a larger scenario...) I posted the following:
"True View photos would be rendered at the time of grading or on a resubmission basis and would then be voluntarily entered into the 'forum' database. There might even be some special addition made to the label of the slab denoting that the coin is now in the system.
When a coin is to be made available for sale, it would go back to PCGS for updated photos to be used for its current listing, that would then go on to accompany the original photos that were taken at the time of grading or when the coin was first entered into the system.
Potential customers could then browse not just coins that are for sale, but all coins that exist in the system! This photo archive, could also potentially be linked to coin-facts in order to provide serious researchers with an incredible amount of material. Likewise this photo archive could also be linked to corresponding Registry Sets in order to serve competitors ina similar manner. Taken collectively, this would add many more wrinkles to the problems faced by coin doctors & counterfeiters alike, as it would make it all but impossible to alter existing material, and bring additional scrutiny to new significant coins entering the system for the first time, especially if their origins cannot be quantified.
Maintaining a permanent photo archive would also document coins changing inside their slabs - the progression copper going from red to brown, milk spots, gold putty, or 'Manofcoins' style tampering would all be documented as it was occurring, and could perhaps then be addressed appropriately."
Am I close? Let the judging begin!
Conversely, what claims can you all make?? Let's hear 'em!
0
Comments
That post was deleted.
There will be no prize.
"High resolution computerized images of every coin graded, which would make it impossible to crack out and mess with previously graded coins( recolor, artificially frost, laser etc ) and not be exposed by PCGS."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>My posts weeks ago said they should utilize Gemprint (a company they own) which does a laser fingerprint of diamonds and adapt it to coins storing in a database along with an image.
That post was deleted.
There will be no prize. >>
But as for your guess...
>>>My Collection
<< <i>My posts weeks ago said they should utilize Gemprint (a company they own) which does a laser fingerprint of diamonds and adapt it to coins storing in a database along with an image.
That post was deleted.
There will be no prize. >>
I resurrected 2 old threads where you suggested it.
did you post it in the "HRH" thread?
It is very common to describe a coin as being high end for the grade or close in quality to the next grade above. The most frequently used shorthand for this is PQ. I want to know what you think about adding the PQ designation.
[A]ssume that . . . we also have new technology that further aids us in realizing this perfect consistency – better than could be achieved by human ability alone. Without getting into the precise details, how does this change your position on . . . using the PQ designation or decimal grades?
Let's assume that we keep our current grading system in place, offering review for PQ or decimal grade only to those who request it specifically. Under this service, [we] provide an expanded grade description, digitally-fingerprints the coin, and takes high resolution images. The attributes of the coin have therefore been recorded in a way that makes this grading and expert assessment as durable and persistent as possible. Along with the expanded grade, it's a permanent grade. In this way, PQ or decimal grading would be a supplementary service.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating.
<< <i>Coin fingerprinting will be the new PCGS adventure. Coins will be able to be identified by image looking at various identifying characteristics. This will prevent counterfeits from getting into PCGS holders (or Chinese look alikes). This information together with RFID imbedded into the label will create a trackable, identifiable slab. A database has probably already begun of the images without notice. >>
"PCGS will record a microscopic "surface scan" of the coin that can be used as the coin's fingerprint. Each new submission can be compared against the database to determine if it's a resubmission. Can also be used to help identify stolen property, determine die markers as the database grows, discover new varieties, etc."
Here's my guess.
1) PCGS buys sophisticated imaging equipment.
2) PCGS trains 5-10 high tier coin companies like "Legend" to grade coins, even sending their graders to work with them for a couple of months and gives them the imaging equipment.
3) Any member can now submit their coins to these companies who in turn will grade them and encapsulate them in PCGS holders. Before they can do this they will grade it themselves and then send the image to PCGS to receive the final ok for the grade.
4) The image of the coin taken will be stored of course and available on-line at no extra cost.
5) The image will also go into a "face recognition" type of system where points on the coin (marks) are gathered. Every coin is unique, thus each coin and its grade, can be found using this system.
Benefits of this system:
1) By using this "recognition" system, these dealers will be able to "run" the coin on their system to determine if it has been submitted before. If it has, a picture of it will come up and the coin will be reviewed to see if it has been "doctored" in any way.
2) Since PCGS has a grade assigned to a coin that has been through their system, crackouts will become a thing of the past. Even if you crack it, send it to NGC and try to re-cross it, PCGS will have an image of it and only grade it up to that grade. For upgrades, coins will need to be sent into PCGS just as they are now for "grade review". In essence, Newport Beach could stop grading altogether.
3) With reduced crackouts, populations will become more accurate and meaningful.
4) Collectors will receive faster turnaround times with 4-5 dealers they can send their coins to.
That's my wild guess. On a lesser note, the use of a recognition system in some way to produce some of the benefits as described above.
it's just that it is a secret... hidden in Left Field!
what's left field about coin imaging??!?!?!
ambro51
Master Collector
Posts: 5223
Joined: Jan 2008
Wednesday March 17, 2010 2:51 PM
For as long as we can remember, coin grading has been "subjective", and open to opinion. Coins are graded using one basic path, that being the accumulated experience and 'eye' of graders and finalizers who have "seen it all before". It is a visual and experience oriented comparison with the accepted grade patterns of that particular coin and series.
It has, up to this point, all been done 'mentally'. This has always been tempered with the word "subjective", and cannot be called scientific by any reasoning.
But, you say, how can coins be graded in an accurate and consistant manner, without using the "brain" of the graders?
......the most effective way would be a fool proof method of comparing the coin to be graded with those of a like date/type/series that are already 'wearing' a certain grade. With the advances in high quality scanning and digital photography, no doubt over the LAST TWO YEARS (as HRH notes).....a system has been developed using a vast compilation of data that PCGS has gathered together while grading.
Now, the most important part will be that for the most part, the "human" factor will be taken out of the mix. This will be replaced with LASER SCANNING of the coin, which will provide an exceptionally intricate and multi faceted way to compare the coin against the accepted grade standard. By the very detailed nature of this examination, all defects and wear related changes to the coin from the basis MS70 perfect standard can be measured and calculated. Toning, RD RB BN coloration, hairlines, cleanings, luster, quality of strike.......all will be analyzed by the LASER system and computer programs and a grade will be "Calculated and Assigned" which will be much less 'subjective'.
Photograding is not new. It has been tried and for the most part dismissed since up to this point the technology and intense work needed to perfect this has not been done. Over the last two years...I believe, PCGS has been working with the LASER GRADING system to iron out the bugs. No doubt, they have been using a twin grading system in house, and have been carefully studying the results of the LASER system, and the HUMAN system, and have arrived at the conclusion that they are ready to reveal that the LASER system gives more consistant results and proves a more accurate grade than has been to date possible.
After this announcement, coins will FLOOD back into PCGS for regrading by the new LASER system. The guesswork will be eliminated, the subjective nature of the human brain be taken out of the picture, and the NEW SYSTEM will be accepted by the coin collecting world as "the next step".
This will also provide an extensive and detailed record of the minor flaws that each graded coin has. Of course, having this in the data bank will help recovery of stolen coins, aid in the detection of counterfeits, and after a period of 'acceptance' by the collectors, result in a more trustworthy TPG experience.
............and dats what I think~!
Actually, I think this entire "One Thousand Dollars" taunt will just dissipate like the morning dew...never to be heard of again.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Can you see Davey writing out a thousand checks for one dollar? >>
I'd send it ATS and down the block to PMG, then flip it on eBay. (Yeah, I know they wouldn't accept it, but it would be funny.)
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>My posts weeks ago said they should utilize Gemprint (a company they own) which does a laser fingerprint of diamonds and adapt it to coins storing in a database along with an image.
That post was deleted.
There will be no prize. >>
"That post was deleted" Too funny
<< <i>Can you see Davey writing out a thousand checks for one dollar? Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry gets like 15000 checks for seven cents or something....
Actually, I think this entire "One Thousand Dollars" taunt will just dissipate like the morning dew...never to be heard of again. >>
More like Martin in the Jerk.
Big Crumbs Link
Mr Rebates Link
EBates Link
Chucknra@yahoo.com
"Seriously, I wonder if they've come up with a digitizing process that will quickly and cost-effectively record a digital fingerprint of a coin which can be used to foil counterfeiters. --Jerry "
My guess was on Feb 11 and is on P23. This was well before Mr Eureka started his thread with the digital technology in it.
I think this is different than Big Moose's guess of high resolution optical images but if HRH gives him the $500 for this half I won't complain.
--Jerry
I still think that is what they are doing, and all this other stuff they mention is a bell and whistle smokescreen
edited to add that I predict no one will ever see the $1000 check because it won't be written
<< <i>Me. Five years ago. >>
Weiss for the win.
How could this not be the obvious choice? The man predicted it straight up.
Lincoln set Colorless Set