I just got a message from a guy who bought a coin from me..

SUMORADA · February 27, 2010 11:17PM

.....on ebay last nite, he is offering to pay by echeck if I agree to send him $20 when I ship the coin....I am not going to do this, I do not even want to deal with this guy now,
I think he could be trouble, Is there anyway I can cancel the sale without the risk of getting negged ?

seemyauction · February 27, 2010 11:21PM

I see a negative feedback in your future.....

smokincoin · February 27, 2010 11:22PM

<< .....on ebay last nite, he is offering to pay by echeck if I agree to send him $20 when I ship the coin....I am not going to do this, I do not even want to deal with this guy now,
I think he could be trouble, Is there anyway I can cancel the sale without the risk of getting negged ? >>

A tricky one. Can we see the listing?

ricko · February 27, 2010 11:25PM

Sounds like he is doing something illegal. I assume he was sending you an echeck for the price of the coin plus $20, which gets him cash, then he avoids honoring the echeck - not sure how that would work, but I put nothing past todays digital scammers. Cheers, RickO

fivecents · February 27, 2010 11:28PM

Just tell him paypal only and keep your fingers crossed that the transaction goes on without another hitch. After that block him from bidding on your auctions.

SUMORADA · February 27, 2010 11:30PM

Sounds like he is doing something illegal. I assume he was sending you an echeck for the price of the coin plus $20, which gets him cash, then he avoids honoring the echeck - not sure how that would work, but I put nothing past todays digital scammers. Cheers, RickO

He wants to pay the winning bid amount by echeck and pocket the $20 out of what I would save on paypal fees, so basically he wants the $$$ that paypal would get if he just paid thru paypal....

smokincoin · February 27, 2010 11:32PM

Today's Paypal echeck still costs the receivee $5 correct?

edited to add: here's a copy & paste job from an echeck payment, to me, last night. The $4.75 fee... is this for all $ amounts?

Total Amount:
$153.49 USD
Fee amount:
-$4.75 USD
Net amount:
$148.74 USD

Issue a refund

You have up to 60 days to refund the payment and get the fees back.
Date:
Feb 28, 2010
Time:
01:16:45 PST
Status:
Uncleared (Expected Clearing Date: 3/3/2010-3/5/2010)
Note: eChecks work like paper checks and take your bank several business days to process.

RYK · February 27, 2010 11:34PM

Perhaps I am not up to speed with the rules and regs, but it would seem to me that if you accept his offer, you will receive the same amount of money (after fees), and he will lose the ability to do a chargeback. It might be worth considering.

lkenefic · February 27, 2010 11:39PM

If you specified preferred methods of payment in your auction, I think you could reasonably defer to that and just tell the guy "PapPal" only. If not, I'd just tell the buyer that you're out of your comfort zone with an echeck and remitting cash (is this in ebay policy?) to complete the transaction. Then see what he says.

L

coin22lover · February 27, 2010 11:48PM

I was recently called an idiot for asking a seller if they'd be interested in added a buy it now option. This doesn't surprise me.

drfish · February 27, 2010 11:55PM

Sounds like the buyer is really tight-I don't see how it's a potential rip off.Echeck is still thru paypal so both parties should be covered by the paypal safety net .With echeck the seller is charged a $5 flat fee instead of the usual +/- 3%.So the sale would have to be significantly over $825 for this to be a good deal for the seller.

Coinlearner · February 28, 2010 12:14AM

If it is not a "win/win" deal,where both parties get something out of it, I would send a NICE message back declining the offer.Thanks but no thanks.........Then BLOCK after feedback left. I would not get into any further communication with party. Save messages to forward to ebay/PP should deal go negitive.

sinin1 · February 28, 2010 12:23AM

what is the value of the coin sold? is it over $1K?

the buyer made no contact prior to close?

tough to negotiate after the sale closed

SUMORADA · February 28, 2010 12:26AM

what is the value of the coin sold? is it over $1K?

yes..

smokincoin · February 28, 2010 12:29AM

<< what is the value of the coin sold? is it over $1K?

yes.. >>

this one?

LindeDad · February 28, 2010 12:32AM

I actully see no problem if you net more money from the sale and are willing to wait three to five days to complete the deal.

smokincoin · February 28, 2010 12:34AM

<< I actully see no problem if you net more money from the sale and are willing to wait three to five days to complete the deal. >>

OnlyGoldIsMoney · February 28, 2010 12:34AM

I suggest saying no and telling him that he can pay through paypal. Neg feedback is likely. The buyer sounds like trouble and this gambit might just be the start.

nycounsel · February 28, 2010 12:41AM

The echeck option is much lower fee, so he's offering to do this as a way of lowering transaction costs. If the $20 he's requesting represents the FULL amount of the difference in fees, it's no benefit to you (except to extent takes credit card out of the loop for disputes). I've had buyers do this before, or offer some split of the transaction cost savings. I think it's fine, wouldn't read anything negative into the offer by the buyer. It's a sign of someone who understands and appreciates the paypal transaction cost structure, not an indication of a bad buyer.

AUandAG · February 28, 2010 12:46AM

Tell him you can't send the $20 till his feedback is received. Then when you
get your positive feedback block him forever!

bob

Moldnut · February 28, 2010 12:47AM

It sounds like you are not that comfortable with what he wants to do. Just say PayPal only and let the chips fall where they may.

JamesMurray · February 28, 2010 12:54AM

Conflicting posts concerning e checks have got me wondering , is it a $5 charge to the seller to take an echeck or not ? This is a flat rate right ? Doesnt matter if its a $1 or $100 its still $5 fee ?

smokincoin · February 28, 2010 1:03AM

<< Conflicting posts concerning e checks have got me wondering , is it a $5 charge to the seller to take an echeck or not ? This is a flat rate right ? Doesnt matter if its a $1 or $100 its still $5 fee ? >>

Doesn't really matter. The coin was over $1,000. Completed listings for this seller show's only one coin that sold over $1,000 last night & it was $1,500. The seller would have been charged well more than $20 by Paypal in fees going the non-echeck route.

LindeDad · February 28, 2010 1:04AM

Sounds like it saves you half of the PayPal fees if it is the auction linked above.
And what would you of done if he had just paid by echeck you would of saved twice as much.
As memtioned you just found a savey buyer that might be a repeat customer if you share the wealth.

JamesMurray · February 28, 2010 1:06AM

q]

<< Conflicting posts concerning e checks have got me wondering , is it a $5 charge to the seller to take an echeck or not ? This is a flat rate right ? Doesnt matter if its a $1 or $100 its still $5 fee ? >>

Doesn't really matter. The coin was over $1,000. Completed listings for this seller show's only one coin that sold over $1,000 last night & it was $1,500. The seller would have been charged well more than $20 by Paypal in fees going the non-echeck route. >>

Yes , but it matters to me , i was paid by echeck recently and didnt think anything of it , i had no idea it costs me 5 bucks , i just need to verify that before spending the day amending my auctions to paypal only.

BigRick · February 28, 2010 1:07AM

Counter-offer to split the fee savings. Seems fair.

fyi: e-check is $5 MAX not $5 for every/any item amount - e.g. it wouldn't cost $5 for a $1 item.

smokincoin · February 28, 2010 1:10AM

<< q]

<< Conflicting posts concerning e checks have got me wondering , is it a $5 charge to the seller to take an echeck or not ? This is a flat rate right ? Doesnt matter if its a $1 or $100 its still $5 fee ? >>

Doesn't really matter. The coin was over $1,000. Completed listings for this seller show's only one coin that sold over $1,000 last night & it was $1,500. The seller would have been charged well more than $20 by Paypal in fees going the non-echeck route. >>

Yes , but it matters to me , i was paid by echeck recently and didnt think anything of it , i had no idea it costs me 5 bucks , i just need to verify that before spending the day amending my auctions to paypal only. >>

I hear ya!

The most recent one I got, last night, cost me $4.75. I don't know the what the ceiling is, if there is one.

JamesMurray · February 28, 2010 1:13AM

Awwwww man...i cant believe this , so if something ends up going for 99c + shipping and is paid by echeck , its costing me money to send the coin..just great

BigRick · February 28, 2010 1:15AM

JM,

Ever heard the term "loss leader"?

JamesMurray · February 28, 2010 1:18AM

No , but i heard of muppet and thats how im feeling , gonna have to take a hard line with these ebayers by golly.Paypal only and no exceptions.

Barry · February 28, 2010 1:21AM

If you split the savings in Paypal fees, I would say yes. If he is the only one to beneift with this offer, I would counteroffer to split the savings 50:50.

I don't consider his offer sleazy, I consider it savvy. As Longacre would say, take the opportunity to put it to The Man

LindeDad · February 28, 2010 1:22AM

An echeck is still paypal. You as the seller have to either accept or decline when the buyer issues it.

And as mentioned earlier it only takes the buyers back up credit card out of play.

nankraut · February 28, 2010 1:25AM

<< Sounds like it saves you half of the PayPal fees if it is the auction linked above.
And what would you of done if he had just paid by echeck you would of saved twice as much.
As memtioned you just found a savey buyer that might be a repeat customer if you share the wealth. >>

WillieBoyd2 · February 28, 2010 1:29AM

I have sold 100's of items on Ebay over the past few years.

I wouldn't let the buyer change the rules after the sale.

The scheme sounds fishy.

One buyer wanted to send me a personal check because "he couldn't use Paypal because his back was sore".

puritan9 · February 28, 2010 1:32AM

He should have asked you this before he bid. I wouldn't do it.

derryb · February 28, 2010 1:38AM

If coin sold for more than 1,000, you will save more than the $20 he wants back by accepting echeck. For those saying specify paypal only in your listings, echeck is a form of paypal payment. Echeck costs the seller 5.00 maximum in paypal fees regardless of sale price. If paypal fee calculation is less than five dollars you will pay paypal fee of less than 5.00 even if paid by echeck.

Your advantages of accepting his echeck and returning 20.00 when you ship the coin:
You remove his use of a credit card that could lead to a chargeback.
You save much more than 20.00 on paypal fees. Have you calculated youe paypal fees both ways?

fee calculator

You should wait for echeck to clear from his bank into your paypal account before you ship coin. Paypal details page will tell you when its OK to ship.

Buyer is not being dishonest, he's trying to save a few bucks and is also offering you some of the paypal fees savings. To those that complain about high paypal fees, this is your legitimate way around some of them.

Echeck should be every sellers preferred method paypal payment. Just a matter of time before paypal does away with it. It costs them a fortune if fees.

DennisH · February 28, 2010 1:43AM

Don't do it. It's in violation of something, and you might wind up being the fall guy.

Barry · February 28, 2010 1:52AM

<< Don't do it. It's in violation of something, and you might wind up being the fall guy. >>

How so?

LindeDad · February 28, 2010 1:59AM

Read derryb post again and again.

eCheck is the sellers friend for sales over about $160.00.

PerryHall · February 28, 2010 2:00AM

Forward this guy's e-mail to eBay and ask them if his request is permissible.

RYK · February 28, 2010 2:02AM

<< 

<< Don't do it. It's in violation of something, and you might wind up being the fall guy. >>

How so? >>

It violates PayPal's ability to extract as much money as possible from each transaction.

derryb · February 28, 2010 2:05AM

<< Don't do it. It's in violation of something, and you might wind up being the fall guy. >>

It only violates paying high paypal fees. I pay with echecks and accept them regularly. Like I said, it is a smart seller's preferred method of paypal payment.

Coppercolor · February 28, 2010 2:09AM

This may not be exactly the same, but as a buyer I've PM'd sellers after a purchase and offered to pay by check to save them fees. They've accepted and transactions went OK. I didn't ask for any compensation but just am sympathetic to sellers on ebay.
Jeff

pf70collector · February 28, 2010 2:18AM

Good Luck. If there was a way on ebay to post in auctions that I would give a discount on a final price if the buyer uses echeck I would most definitely do it, especially when you have items in the 4-5K range. $5 for the echeck fee plus a discount of 1-2% is a lot better than paying $200-300 on ebay fees.

derryb · February 28, 2010 2:35AM

<< Good Luck. If there was a way on ebay to post in auctions that I would give a discount on a final price if the buyer uses echeck I would most definitely do it, especially when you have items in the 4-5K range. $5 for the echeck fee plus a discount of 1-2% is a lot better than paying $200-300 on ebay fees. >>

Offer an upgrade in shipping (first classs to priority or registered to express) for those that pay by echeck. Keep in mind that for a buyer to pay by echeck he must have a zero balance in his paypal account and he must not have a credit card tied to his paypal account. A yes to either of these two will take away his echeck option when he goes to "other funding options" during payment. As a buyer this can be accomplished by having another paypal account without a credit card that is used to make echeck purchases. It will require a bank account with money in it to cover the echeck. When you use an echeck paypal transfers funds from the bank account.

Weather11am · February 28, 2010 2:41AM

Wowwwwwwww, just skimming this shows me most people are over reacting. I don't know how much the item cost, but if it's more than $800 roughly, both the seller and buyer wins and PayPal loses. All the seller has to do is wait for the echeck to clear and then there is less risk since there is a potential charge back if the buyer paid with a credit card.

For everybody flipping out (which makes no sense if you know how PayPal works), the seller always has the option of declining.

Russ · February 28, 2010 2:50AM

<< This may not be exactly the same, but as a buyer I've PM'd sellers after a purchase and offered to pay by check to save them fees. They've accepted and transactions went OK. I didn't ask for any compensation but just am sympathetic to sellers on ebay.
Jeff >>

You're my kind of buyer!

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut · February 28, 2010 2:50AM

An eCheck has a maximum fee of $5, regardless of its value. For high-value transactions, it's a great way to save on fees. It seems like the buyer is offering to save you on fees if you share the money you save with him. You may be more comfortable simply giving him a $20 shipping discount on the terms that he uses an eCheck. For what it's worth, a fee of $20 is assessed on a normal transaction of about $690 assuming you don't do enough volume to get reduced fees.

notwilight · February 28, 2010 5:02AM

I'm late to the party here but what he is doing is in my opinion is, not unethical or unfair, but probably a violation of paypal rules because the money you and he save comes out of paypal's pocket.

I have done similar things before. For example, I get offers on coins with the extra condition "Paid by echeck" So I know I'll save 2.2% and I factor that into the offer. I'm sure paypal isn't happy.

In this case, if fees are $40 or so and so he's offering to split the difference I'd jump on it. --Jerry

jessewvu · February 28, 2010 5:24AM

<< Sounds like he is doing something illegal. I assume he was sending you an echeck for the price of the coin plus $20, which gets him cash, then he avoids honoring the echeck - not sure how that would work, but I put nothing past todays digital scammers. Cheers, RickO

He wants to pay the winning bid amount by echeck and pocket the $20 out of what I would save on paypal fees, so basically he wants the $$$ that paypal would get if he just paid thru paypal.... >>

Sounds OK to me. I often suggest the very same thing when people buy items from me on eBay over say 500. I offer to give them money back, usually half of the paypal fee that I save. So, they get the benefit and so do I. It's not illegal at all from what I'm reading... Just a way to reduce out of pocket money for everyone. If the buyer said he was only paying by eCheck and he demanded $20 back, that's a different story. I imagine he's trying to save you both money.

Type2 · February 28, 2010 5:31AM

Just say No. I can't do that it will mess up my book's and move on. And thanks for the offer.

I just got a message from a guy who bought a coin from me..

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