Are you rushing out to buy RB and RD coins right now?

Bochiman · December 27, 2009 11:03AM

or are you waiting?
I have no problems buying the BN coins right now, if they look nice, but I admit that in the last week or so, as I look for a couple of semi-keys in the IHC area, when I look at RB/RD coins, I kind of find myslef holding off.

Sure, buy now and they are still "lifetime guaranteed", supposedly, at least in PCGS plastic. But, one doesn't know what will happen to prices come 1/1/2010, right?
Maybe the RD/RB go down in value, as a whole, and that trends even previous coins downward, to all but the true collector. Many dealers, at least the ones around here, would just pull out the sheet/trends and then make a lower offer. They wouldn't bother with "well, that one must have good color, etc".

So, I want some, but I will wait on a few due to the guarantee change.

CaptainRon · December 27, 2009 12:34PM

When I buy a coin now, and I believe you are the same way, if we even consider a grading guarentee in the first few moments of handling the coin, then we should know that the coin is not for us, and instantly pass on it.

As to wait on buying a coin because we think the price may come down more in a few months or a year. Well that has cost me a few gorgeous coins in the past.

I remember an ANR or Stacks's auction about four or five years back that I lost on two awsome coins. An awsome half dime I lost to Boiler, and a gorgeous 1870 proof half. I believed then the prices were to strong. Well I still think about those two coins today, yet I do not recall what they sold for. My point being if it is truely a coin that you want, buy it regardless of where the current cycle is, you will enjoy it, longer then worry of money.

JMO
Ron

PQType · December 27, 2009 12:45PM

I tried to find a high grade PCGS 1865 RD,RB proof with no luck. I made some high offers including thru Heritage "make an offer" with no luck. Looks like after a few days it I will be looking for a BN or seriously considering breaking up the cameo set.

SUMORADA · December 27, 2009 12:54PM

I tried to find a high grade PCGS 1865 RD,RB proof with no luck. I made some high offers including thru Heritage "make an offer" with no luck. Looks like after a few days it I will be looking for a BN or seriously considering breaking up the cameo set.

Just a thought.....Happy Holidays!
Link

coinbuf · December 27, 2009 1:56PM

Yes I am holding off on any pcgs holdered copper as I do think that the market will adjust downward, even with disposable monies I feel that it would be unwise to purchase pcgs graded coppers at this or any forseeable time.

Bochiman · December 27, 2009 1:58PM

<< Yes I am holding off on any pcgs holdered copper as I do think that the market will adjust downward, even with disposable monies I feel that it would be unwise to purchase pcgs graded coppers at this or any forseeable time. >>

I'm ok on the circ stuff, if I like it, right now. And, likely the BN.

It's the RD/RB that I am leary of....

ChrisRx · December 27, 2009 1:58PM

Would not take a chance on an expensive one (unless I knew the provenance of it.)

Yes, RD prices will start dropping.

EagleEye · December 27, 2009 2:09PM

I think the prices of RB coin in RD holders will drop. True RD coins in old holders will likely rise in value or at least hold their own, unless they were overpriced to begin with.

People collect coins, not holders.

People like what they like and a guarantee or lack of one will not persuade or dissuade them from collecting what they like.

edited to add: yes the 1865 is 99% red, I just can't capture it in the image.

coinbuf · December 27, 2009 2:11PM

<< 

<< Yes I am holding off on any pcgs holdered copper as I do think that the market will adjust downward, even with disposable monies I feel that it would be unwise to purchase pcgs graded coppers at this or any forseeable time. >>

I'm ok on the circ stuff, if I like it, right now. And, likely the BN.

It's the RD/RB that I am leary of.... >>

I should have claified as for my Lincoln collection; my most extensive amount of coppers; I only collect MS grades. And for the most part rb or rd, thus my collecting of pcgs holdered copper is on indefinate hold. I even considered selling the whole kit-n-kabodle but this policy change was done as a surprise attack partly I suspect so that collectors would not have suffcient time to unload their holdings. I would aggree that bn and circ coins are safe.

robkool · December 27, 2009 4:13PM

I'm sure Stuart Blay would have an opinion about this topic, since he has a great pcgs copper collection.

Elcontador · December 27, 2009 4:26PM

No. I never rush to buy any coin. The biggest 'offenders' here are RD Lincolns, which I do not collect. If I saw a RD coin in a OGH (or older one) which I liked, I'd buy it, guarantee or no guarantee. Practically speaking, I collect type. I have my IHC, the pre Braided Hair Copper in grades I collect are too scarce and expensive in RD, and I rarely have seen any Braided Hair Copper designated RD that I thought was "all there." Sure, it's available, but typically, the color has mellowed or is uneven, etc.

darktone · December 27, 2009 8:33PM

I think now all the people that learned how to identify original red coins over the years and did not rely on the grading services has a real advantage now. This might be a good thing in that everyone will be forced to become better graders of red copper and hopefullt across all series.

IrishMike · December 27, 2009 8:37PM

Staying away from buying expensive red copper until I see how the market goes. Regardless of what Rick says not everyone will continue to buy red copper at these prices. At least in my case I feel its a good time to take the conservative route.

coinguy1 · December 27, 2009 9:55PM

<< I think the prices of RB coin in RD holders will drop. True RD coins in old holders will likely rise in value or at least hold their own, unless they were overpriced to begin with.

People collect coins, not holders.

People like what they like and a guarantee or lack of one will not persuade or dissuade them from collecting what they like.

edited to add: yes the 1865 is 99% red, I just can't capture it in the image. >>

Some people wont be dissuaded from collecting what they like. Others will and have already indicated such in their actions, as well as in their posts here and elsewhere. How can that not have some negative impact on prices?

Broadstruck · December 27, 2009 10:16PM

I feel that we might see some crazed prices realized at auction on red copper that's encapsulated in OGH's as it's considered stable

EagleEye · December 28, 2009 2:19AM

If someone who doesn't now collect RD copper now decides that he certainly won't buy RD copper, that is just talk and not a market changing action. For prices to go down, I'll have to see a dramatic decease in sales (my sales), which I have not yet seen. I suppose we'll see, but I think being an fair arbitrator on what is acceptable for RD and what is not for that past 14 years gives my customers a level of comfort. If they choose to go it alone and buy sight unseen in auctions, they take a risk.

Rather than running away, they can buy their copper from me, or Andy S. who also, I believe, protects his customers from buying problem coins.

Bochiman · December 28, 2009 4:03AM

<< I think the prices of RB coin in RD holders will drop. True RD coins in old holders will likely rise in value or at least hold their own, unless they were overpriced to begin with.

People collect coins, not holders.

People like what they like and a guarantee or lack of one will not persuade or dissuade them from collecting what they like.

edited to add: yes the 1865 is 99% red, I just can't capture it in the image. >>

Rick, you shouldn't generalize. While I am not a "BIG" time RD copper collector, I do have some. I also have some RB.
PCGS' guarantee was something I counted on to make the purchases at the prices I did. I am not an expert and I know there is coloring/doctoring going on.
Their guarantee gave me confidence that, even if something was good enough to slip past them, if something happened with it, they would back up their grading of the piece.

Now, they say the doctors are better than them (undetectable). I am backing down/backing off for a bit.
Yes, you may feel confident in what you can see, and you have more experience than most. Doesn't mean that you handle everything or that there aren't bargains out there (that may or may not really be bargains), but I would imagine I am not alone in wanting to assess what is going to happen on RD/RB for a bit.

I do understand that, as a dealer, the possible decline is not a good thing for you (particularly for those with coins in inventory currently) but as a collector, I don't need burned (either pricewise or piecewise) if something happens to the pieces or prices.

I'll still "collect what I like", but I will be a lot more discerning and stingy with the pocketbook, just in case.

joebb21 · December 28, 2009 4:07AM

while what ron says holds true in many cases, silver is very different then copper. If you buy a nice red copper piece, you might not remember what you paid for it 3 or 5 years later, but that clean red coin that you bought definetly looks nicer than your coin as it looks now with copper spots and other splotches over it

EagleEye · December 28, 2009 4:35AM

I do understand that, as a dealer, the possible decline is not a good thing for you (particularly for those with coins in inventory currently) but as a collector, I don't need burned (either pricewise or piecewise) if something happens to the pieces or prices.

I think my business will be helped by this decision. Photo sealed coins are not adversely effected by PCGS's decision, in my opinion.

BillJones · December 28, 2009 4:35AM

I like R&B and brown copper, but I've never been a red copper fan except for Proof cents no older than 1936. The few red copper coins I've owned, including a large cent and a PR-65, Red two cent piece, I sold because I got antsy about preservation problems.

mike92694 · December 28, 2009 4:43AM

<< I do understand that, as a dealer, the possible decline is not a good thing for you (particularly for those with coins in inventory currently) but as a collector, I don't need burned (either pricewise or piecewise) if something happens to the pieces or prices.

I think my business will be helped by this decision. Photo sealed coins are not adversely effected by PCGS's decision, in my opinion. >>

Yes, your business will most likely be helped by the decision, but if my understanding is correct, you only do the photo seal for Flying Eagle and Indian Cents. There are a great deal more coppers than those two.

golfer72 · December 28, 2009 6:18AM

A lot of the coins PCGS called RD i didnt really agree with or maybe they have turned in the holder already? Those type of coins if there is any doubt that they are RD will definitely drop in price. RB probably will drop much less and BN not at all.

Are you rushing out to buy RB and RD coins right now?

Comments

Leave a Comment