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Poll: Luster, Strike, Marks and Toning what is most important to you?
PonyExpress8
Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭
In the PCGS Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, there are 5 stated attributes that make up the grade of Mint State or Proof coins.
These are in no particular order, strike, marks, luster, toning and eye appeal.
I want to set up a poll, leaving eye appeal out, which I think we can all agree must be there for us to consider a coin and is pretty subjective and ask which is most important to you.
These can be negatives towards an assigned grade or positives. But what is most important to you that attracts you to a coin of these 4?
These are in no particular order, strike, marks, luster, toning and eye appeal.
I want to set up a poll, leaving eye appeal out, which I think we can all agree must be there for us to consider a coin and is pretty subjective and ask which is most important to you.
These can be negatives towards an assigned grade or positives. But what is most important to you that attracts you to a coin of these 4?
0
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2. Marks
3. Luster
4. Toning.
Price has to be realistic for me to consider purchasing the coin...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>In the PCGS Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, there are 5 stated attributes that make up the grade of Mint State or Proof coins.
These are in no particular order, strike, marks, luster, toning and eye appeal.
I want to set up a poll, leaving eye appeal out, which I think we can all agree must be there for us to consider a coin and is pretty subjective and ask which is most important to you.
These can be negatives towards an assigned grade or positives. But what is most important to you that attracts you to a coin of these 4? >>
If you add suger, flour and eggs with other stuff, you could end up with some yummy cookies. Same goes for the eye appeal of a coin when you add the strike with some luster and possibly some toning together. Depending on how distracting or the location of a few marks because most coins do have some amount of damage but adding those four qualities together will always affect the eye appeal of the coin.
So the answer to your poll is not there for all of those qualities; the strike , the grade/condition, how lustrous....and possibly some exceptional toning are all equal to each other and one is not more important than the other. Although, for coins that are very difficult to locate, I have sacrified the grade condition over the strike and luster of a coin.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Ken
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>...one is not more important than the other. >>
I agree with Leo.
<< <i>Luster, luster, luster. Fairlaneman is right. >>
I know this is right, but I really like a well struck coin!
Wear– abrasion (a negative only)
Marks – fewer the better (a negative only)
Luster – consistent for design and date
Toning – as long as it’s not detracting (a negative only)
2. Toning
3. Strike
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After that I am in the luster camp up to a point. I would rather have a mark free coin with no luster than a lusterous beat up piece of junk.
Now because I probably wouldn't choose either of those examples I guess we're back to luster.
Luster, strike and marks carry equal import to me, toning would be second.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thus far it seems strike and luster are running neck and neck as most important. It would seem then commensurate marks for the assigned grade and toning are not quite as important in the relative sense.
I could probably phrase the question better and design the poll better as well. I really do appreciate the feedback very much and hope to pose other questions along the way so I can better focus my efforts.
Thanks again and if anyone else would like to add their opinion it is very much appreciated!
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
If you are talking about a AU55 coin with broken luster I agree with you. If you are talking about a coin with AU55 details and no luster period because of multiple dippings or storage problems I would have to disagree because actually the coin is not AU55 at all. Coins with no remaining luster should not be sold or graded any higher than XF in my opinion.
Oh Yea I never did answer the original question. Luster first and then a combination tone, marks and strike in that order.
Ken
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
2. Absence of marks - I hate big bag marks and dislike a myriad of smaller marks.
3. Luster, it can be brilliant and satiny - either one is okay with me. P-L is over rated especially when the coin is badly marked up.
4. Toning - mostly a negative if it's ugly. I won't pay
I like to think of what attracts me to a coin at a show. So many dealers, so many coins, and so little time at the big shows, so what reels the fish in? Vibrant LUSTER....perhaps with beautiful, colorful toning. You can't tell Strike or Marks until you get pretty darn close to the coins, even larger ones. Once the fish has been attracted to the lure, and I'm within a few feet, marks start to become noticeable. Lots of small marks are pretty obvious at this distance, so no bite. If a nice, lustrous, beautiful color coin has no noticeable marks at this distance, it gets considered for date, MM, variety, etc to see if it's worth looking further. If so, it gets requested and examined at close range. If big marks pop out in prime focal areas, back it goes. If not, out comes the 5x glass. Now I can see how nice the strike is, and if it is weak, back it goes. If all is there, and price is right, I go home with it.
Now, once home, the criteria changes. The coins are all lustrous, all beautiful, all with few marks, so what sets them apart? Strike. In the end, it all must come together, but Strike is the thing that makes a coin stand out when I'm looking over my collection. Weakly struck coins, beautiful as they may be, maybe even highly graded, eventually leave my collection. I'm still attracted to the beautiful and shiny, but the coins I love are the ones where the entire design is fully THERE.
A corollary to this is die state. A strongly-struck coin from a worn die can be beautiful, but it won't make it into my "permanent" collection. So, I would add "Early Die State" to the list of important criteria.
RayP
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>Luster is "King" for Uncirculated and Almost Uncirculated. Without luster the coin is lacking and the other attributes mean nothing. A well struck coin, a mark free coin and a toned coin without luster is lacking eye appeal.
Ken >>
Very well said Ken.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
important to me.
bob
• Marks and wear indicate deterioration of the coin due to contact and/or use.
• I consider detail (strike) next because completeness of design is what I look for in the coin.
• Luster is an artifact of die deterioration and not an inherent attribute of the very best examples of a design. (Early strike surface could be satin-like or mirror-like depending on how die was finished or repaired.)
• Toning is only a secondary characteristic.
• Eye-appeal is too subjective to be meaningful.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Luster is "King" for Uncirculated and Almost Uncirculated. Without luster the coin is lacking and the other attributes mean nothing. >>
No doubt this may be true for many series, but not for Buffalo nickels. For most dates in this series, full strikes range from uncommon to unknown and when a FS is found it almost always has subdued luster. Most of the flashy examples are poorly struck or have average strikes at best. This is not to say that luster doesn't catch my eye because it certainly does. But my most cherished pieces all have fantastic strikes whereas the lustrous pieces I consider replaceable.
<< <i>I hate heavy bag marks. I don't care how beautiful the toning, how well it's struck, or how vibrant the luster is, I'll reject a coin if it's all marked up. >>
Louis Armstrong
<< <i>
<< <i>Luster is "King" for Uncirculated and Almost Uncirculated. Without luster the coin is lacking and the other attributes mean nothing. >>
No doubt this may be true for many series, but not for Buffalo nickels. For most dates in this series, full strikes range from uncommon to unknown and when a FS is found it almost always has subdued luster. Most of the flashy examples are poorly struck or have average strikes at best. This is not to say that luster doesn't catch my eye because it certainly does. But my most cherished pieces all have fantastic strikes whereas the lustrous pieces I consider replaceable. >>
Same goes for the Jefferson nickels. AAMOF, the metal composition .750 copper and .250 nickel planchets, hasn't changed since they started making nickels in 1865 (save for the war nickels). Even the 3 cent piece had the same composition. It's the same hard nickel alloy they've been using for over 140 years. Finding the strongest strike for this type of coin is very relevant. But for many dates for both Buffalo and Jefferson nickels, locating fully struck examples is quite a challenge.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
marks
strike
toning
Camelot
I know when I'm looking at an older series that was well made but poorly handled
or usually worn I'm looking for high grades and nice surfaces. With moderns which
typically have great luster I'll be looking for well struck or fresh dies because these
are the characteristics that are rare.
One just tends to take nice surfaces for granted on later coins.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>I collect accurately graded au55 to ms65++
With that said in order of importance:
Original surfaces
Luster
Marks
Toning
Strike
Why is strike last you might ask. If you colelct varities or die marriages or die states, you may not have a choice in the strike department if the only way that you may find a high grade example is to obtain a late die state or a variety that usually only occurs with a weak strike. IF a weak strike is basically the only way I can obtain the example then why should that stop me. >>
My thinking is along the lines that there are EDS examples of all varieties. But some may not be as well struck, depending on at what point the error occur to the working dies while they were worked on to improve the design. So there is a chance that some varieties could be improved upon if the opportunity arrives.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>1. Strike
2. Marks
3. Luster
4. Toning. >>
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They are sometimes but not always inter-related.
Lusterless coin get downgraded. I love luster on MS coins and it defines the grade on circulated coins.
Toning if attractive adds to eye appeal and market value (at least until recently). If dark and original few want them ( Kaufman excepted). I am atone freak but don't buy red coppers (never have) and avoid Morgans with the added stuff. Who knows how toning got there in a world of wands. If the luster is gone and the coin was dipped avoid the pretty toning.
Strike adds to eye appeal and distinguishes a great from otherwise nice coin.
Original surfaces are hard to find and thus the rarest of the above . How many 150 year old coins have not been dipped or messed with (not many).
Bag marks are death to my eye.
Hairlines (surfaces) kills a coin.
So say what you want you need to have a grading system that evaluates all qualities. The balance will change over seasons but the finest coins have hgh grades in all categories.
<< <i>Toning is a disqualifier.... yik.... Cheers, RickO >>
In other words original coins are disqualifiers.
The comments were also read and noted. I appreciate the thought you put into it.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
- Jim
<< <i>When i see a Walker or Buffalo with a weak strike I wont go any further with it. I dont how clean and how much luster it has. Weak strikes are showstoppers. None of the other criteria are. Maybe that why I like Proofs.
I'm with you on this but there are always a few dates in most series that will take some time to locate with nice strikes. With Jefferson nickels and Franklin halves, Buffalo nickels included, some are just impossible to find. I'm not trying to single anyone out here about this or that but there are some modern coins that will always be out of our reach to obtain. They're certainly out of my reach. With that said, a collector can still build a pretty nice collection for far less money without sacrificing the strike quality too much. Some strikes will be softer than others but at least, not so weakly struck, there's little design on the coin. But if that's the case, that's the way it is but be careful with what you pay for such coins.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Luster-eye appeal hands down. Strike usually comes with this. >>
Usually, but not allways. A few weeks ago I saw a 1915 d Barber half graded by pcgs as ms 64 with burnt orange album toning and killer unbroken luster as well as clean surfaces for the grade but the the strike was about as weak as I've ever seen on a non New Orleans Barber coin, still if the owner hadn't had such a high minumum reserve I would have bid on it.