Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

astrorat · December 8, 2009 3:02AM

Hi folks-

What do you think of this one? What will PCGS call it? All opinions welcome...good or bad.

Lane

DennisH · December 8, 2009 3:04AM

Just a WAG: MS64 or AU58 (pictures leave many unanswered questions).

STONE · December 8, 2009 3:10AM

<< Just a WAG: MS64 or AU58 (pictures leave many unanswered questions). >>

I can agree with that!

astrorat · December 8, 2009 3:11AM

What questions? Perhaps I can assist.

Lane

DennisH · December 8, 2009 3:22AM

<< What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

Lustre.
Frost breaks.
Wear on highpoints.
Eye appeal.

tbarreca · December 8, 2009 3:24AM

+1

kryptonitecomics · December 8, 2009 3:27AM

<< 

<< What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

Lustre.
Frost breaks.
Wear on highpoints.
Eye appeal. >>

+ 2....images are not good for determining a grade...dark and slightly out of focus so I am going to guess that they are going to say it's a genuine buffalo nickel

Sorry just kidding but I can't tell potential wear or luster from the images provided

astrorat · December 8, 2009 3:28AM

<< 

<< What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

Lustre.
Frost breaks.
Wear on highpoints.
Eye appeal. >>

Well...what fun would it be to address those?

The photos are fairly accurate, albeit a tad bit dark. The luster is typical for a mid-20s Buffalo.

Lane

SeaEagleCoins · December 8, 2009 3:42AM

I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ...

(of course, anything is possible...

)

crazyhounddog · December 8, 2009 3:44AM

For the date this coin looks great as the 24-s most of the time has a weak strike. I would grade this piece ms-63 and a shot at 64. Very nice coin!!

astrorat · December 8, 2009 3:46AM

<< I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ...

(of course, anything is possible...

) >>

I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal.

Lane

Type2 · December 8, 2009 3:59AM

<< 

<< I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ...

(of course, anything is possible...

) >>

I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal.

Lane >>

I'll say MS-64ish. but with todays grading it may go in a MS63 so they will not have to Guarantee the Grade.

SeaEagleCoins · December 8, 2009 4:06AM

<< 

<< I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ...

(of course, anything is possible...

) >>

I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal.

Lane >>

... just try and get rid of me ...

edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged...

astrorat · December 8, 2009 4:18AM

<< edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged...

>>

No ... no ... no ... oh please ... Quarternut and Stone are doing a fine job at that!

Lane

tahoe98 · December 8, 2009 4:59AM

......from my monitor i'd say 63.

astrorat · December 8, 2009 11:01AM

For the evening crowd.

Lane

Halfhunter06 · December 8, 2009 11:20AM

I will give it a grade, MS 63, nice coin too!

STONE · December 8, 2009 11:24AM

<< 

<< edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged...

>>

No ... no ... no ... oh please ... Quarternut and Stone are doing a fine job at that!

Lane >>

+Billet7

drei3ree · December 8, 2009 12:06PM

I'd give the OBV a 64 and REV a 65 = 64. Disclaimer: I don't get paid for my grade opinions and am frequently wrong!

Broadstruck · December 8, 2009 12:09PM

Genuine.

Posted since dizzyfox isn't here

Shamika · December 8, 2009 12:12PM

I want to see a close-up of that mint mark. It doesn't look right.

fcloud · December 8, 2009 12:14PM

I think they will call it a 1924-S buffalo nickel.

<< Hi folks-

What do you think of this one? What will PCGS call it? All opinions welcome...good or bad.

Lane

>>

icsoccer · December 8, 2009 12:20PM

63/64

Elcontador · December 8, 2009 12:20PM

I don't like the color on the coin, but from the image, it's the best strike on a 24 S I've ever seen. Detail wise, I'd say an MS 64.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 8, 2009 12:24PM

I wonder if the graders are allowed to use the boards as a cheat sheet.

cape · December 9, 2009 4:00AM

It is tough to tell by the image --- be careful as Anacs had me authenticate a 24s at COINFEST and the coin looked similar to that but it had an added mintmark!!!!! BEWARE!!!

JJM · December 9, 2009 6:35AM

looks soft from the pic

astrorat · December 9, 2009 7:16AM

<< I want to see a close-up of that mint mark. It doesn't look right. >>

Here you go...

Lane

astrorat · December 9, 2009 7:17AM

<< looks soft from the pic >>

What looks "soft?" The strike or ?

Lane

Justacommeman · December 9, 2009 7:19AM

Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

tails?

MJ

astrorat · December 9, 2009 7:25AM

<< Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

tails?

MJ >>

Comedians around every corner!

Lane

Elcontador · December 9, 2009 7:34AM

Chris and Ed have a point re the mintmark. The 24 S I owned had a small, boxy mintmark. It did not have nearly as much space between the top and bottom tips of the 'S' and its center as this one does. That MAY explain why this coin appears to be so well struck; the 24 S is probably the consistently most poorly struck Buffalo Nickel I've ever seen, but this is not a series in which I specialize.

gyocomgd · December 9, 2009 8:42AM

Check the rims under the mintmark--embossed mintmarks are also not uncommon with this issue.

cape · December 9, 2009 8:53AM

THE coin that I saw at Coinfest looks exactly like that piece... flip the coin on the side and you will see what appears to be rim filing - made to hide the added mintmark. From the blown up image there appears to be a rim ding and under that a light filing. Hope this helps!

cape · December 9, 2009 9:05AM

Take an image of the edge and post it to the forum.

gyocomgd · December 9, 2009 10:05AM

<< THE coin that I saw at Coinfest looks exactly like that piece... flip the coin on the side and you will see what appears to be rim filing - made to hide the added mintmark. From the blown up image there appears to be a rim ding and under that a light filing. Hope this helps! >>

I think you're describing an embossed mintmark, not an added mintmark. Correct me if I'm wrong on that...

astrorat · December 9, 2009 10:13AM

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!

We have a winner!

Yes, the coin has a great strike. In fact, it's a killer strike for a 1924-S. But not for a 1924-P. The coin was not struck in San Francisco, but Philadelphia. It is an embossed mintmark.

Nice work, Board detectives.

A cursory examination of the edge shows some vertical lines indicating some form of manipulation. Not that bad, but if you know what to look for it is very apparent.

Lane

cape · December 9, 2009 10:29AM

Yes Guy- embossed and then hidden with the dings and filing to hide where they drilled the edge to add the mintmark.

Broadstruck · December 9, 2009 12:07PM

Very sneaky astrorat as I thought you where being genuine!

gyocomgd · December 9, 2009 12:16PM

Here's a 1925-S I acquired and sent as a token of friendship to forum member Buffaloirontail, a terrific buffalo nickel afficionado and one of my early mentors. It looked normal to me and at that point in my career, I never thought twice about the rims. But Buffaloirontail checked the rims, which should be customary for tough dates. He sent it back, I photographed, and just check out the rim beneath the mintmark. THIS is what doctoring for an embossed mintmark looks like:

No guarantee that the 24-S has the same thing going on, but you should ALWAYS check the rims on these as a matter of course.
Hats off to Buffaloirontail. He told some terrific stories and his takes on this series were always excellent. I wish he were here more!

Broadstruck · December 9, 2009 12:40PM

gyocomgd and Buffaloirontail, thanks for this image as beyond being tedious, the level of precision required is truly one of the most mind blowing mint mark forgeries I've seen!

Elcontador · December 9, 2009 1:33PM

Too bad we can't find the guy who did this and have him be in jail for a few years.

STONE · December 9, 2009 1:37PM

<< Too bad we can't find the guy who did this and have him be in jail for a few years. >>

Quite the contrary in my opinion. I would love to learn, first hand, the technique and exact process of embossing a mintmark.
It's an extremely delicate process, and the forger would need exceptional skill to pull it off.
It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge

Broadstruck · December 9, 2009 1:48PM

<< It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge

>>

Stone, That was my first thought also after seeing how detailed the reverse and rim work is.

gyocomgd · December 9, 2009 1:55PM

The 25-S isn't worth a great deal of money in that grade, and I've rather enjoyed having it around as a cool example of a first-rate forgery. Buffalirontail said that, to the best of his knowledge, it hadn't been done with the 25-S before. If that's the case, I own a "condition rarity," lol.
My understanding is that they drill a hole through the rim and insert the mint mark with a tool resembling a pair of tweezers. They somehow then force the mint mark up through the metal. It can't be easy, what with buffalo nickels being made of a particularly strong metal. And to align the mint mark nice and straight, position it properly in relation to the rim and epithet, and have it stand out relatively distinctly--well, it's nothing short of amazing in my opinion. Although I did not enjoy being ripped off, I have a certain grudging admiration for the criminals who did it.

astrorat · December 9, 2009 8:46PM

I believe there was a decent description in the ANA correspondence course on counterfeit detection, but I don't have the text in front of me. I picked up the coin as an embossed mintmark alteration in the early 1980's from a dealer who purchased about 8 pieces as real. He was not a happy guy.

Lane

cape · December 9, 2009 9:49PM

Actually Guy that 25s was a bad job- the 24s at Coinfest that I saw was much better done!!

metalmeister · December 9, 2009 11:59PM

I am confused

Walkerguy21D · December 10, 2009 12:32AM

<< It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge >>

He practiced on coins like that '25S before moving on to 'make' high grade '24S's

crazyhounddog · December 10, 2009 1:12AM

That is an amazing piece of work! And I agree , who ever did this should be in jail for a while!!

Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

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