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Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Hi folks-

What do you think of this one? What will PCGS call it? All opinions welcome...good or bad.

Lane

imageimage
Numismatist Ordinaire
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces

Comments

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just a WAG: MS64 or AU58 (pictures leave many unanswered questions).
    When in doubt, don't.
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭


    << <i>Just a WAG: MS64 or AU58 (pictures leave many unanswered questions). >>


    I can agree with that!
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What questions? Perhaps I can assist.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

    Lustre.
    Frost breaks.
    Wear on highpoints.
    Eye appeal.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • tbarrecatbarreca Posts: 299 ✭
    +1
    Tony Barreca

    "Question your assumptions."
    "Intelligence is an evolutionary adaptation."
  • kryptonitecomicskryptonitecomics Posts: 9,185 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

    Lustre.
    Frost breaks.
    Wear on highpoints.
    Eye appeal. >>



    + 2....images are not good for determining a grade...dark and slightly out of focus so I am going to guess that they are going to say it's a genuine buffalo nickel image


    Sorry just kidding but I can't tell potential wear or luster from the images provided image
    Kryptonitecomics Ebay Auctions
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What questions? Perhaps I can assist. >>

    Lustre.
    Frost breaks.
    Wear on highpoints.
    Eye appeal. >>



    Well...what fun would it be to address those? image

    The photos are fairly accurate, albeit a tad bit dark. The luster is typical for a mid-20s Buffalo.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭
    I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ... image


    (of course, anything is possible... image )
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the date this coin looks great as the 24-s most of the time has a weak strike. I would grade this piece ms-63 and a shot at 64. Very nice coin!!image
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ... image


    (of course, anything is possible... image ) >>



    I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal. image

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ... image


    (of course, anything is possible... image ) >>



    I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal. image

    Lane >>

    image I'll say MS-64ish. but with todays grading it may go in a MS63 so they will not have to Guarantee the Grade. image


    Hoard the keys.
  • SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that, if nothing else, we can be 99.9% certain that they will call it "A Buffalo Nickel" ... image


    (of course, anything is possible... image ) >>



    I know, I know ... you're here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal. image

    Lane >>




    image ... just try and get rid of me ... image


    edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged... image
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged... image >>



    No ... no ... no ... oh please ... Quarternut and Stone are doing a fine job at that! image

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    ......from my monitor i'd say 63. image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the evening crowd. image

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • Halfhunter06Halfhunter06 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
    I will give it a grade, MS 63, nice coin too!
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>edited to add... you better be nice... you astrorat, you... or I'll join that Bust Half contest and run ya ragged... image >>



    No ... no ... no ... oh please ... Quarternut and Stone are doing a fine job at that! image

    Lane >>


    +Billet7 image
  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd give the OBV a 64 and REV a 65 = 64. Disclaimer: I don't get paid for my grade opinions and am frequently wrong! image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Genuine.














    Posted since dizzyfox isn't here imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
    I want to see a close-up of that mint mark. It doesn't look right.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I think they will call it a 1924-S buffalo nickel. image



    << <i>Hi folks-

    What do you think of this one? What will PCGS call it? All opinions welcome...good or bad.

    Lane

    imageimage >>

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • icsoccericsoccer Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    63/64
    image
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  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't like the color on the coin, but from the image, it's the best strike on a 24 S I've ever seen. Detail wise, I'd say an MS 64.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if the graders are allowed to use the boards as a cheat sheet.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • capecape Posts: 1,621 ✭
    It is tough to tell by the image --- be careful as Anacs had me authenticate a 24s at COINFEST and the coin looked similar to that but it had an added mintmark!!!!! BEWARE!!!
    ed rodrigues
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭✭✭
    looks soft from the pic
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37,Waverly, justindan
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I want to see a close-up of that mint mark. It doesn't look right. >>



    Here you go...

    image

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>looks soft from the pic >>



    What looks "soft?" The strike or ?

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

    tails? image

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Buffalo nickel - What will PCGS call it?

    tails? image

    MJ >>



    image

    Comedians around every corner! image

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Chris and Ed have a point re the mintmark. The 24 S I owned had a small, boxy mintmark. It did not have nearly as much space between the top and bottom tips of the 'S' and its center as this one does. That MAY explain why this coin appears to be so well struck; the 24 S is probably the consistently most poorly struck Buffalo Nickel I've ever seen, but this is not a series in which I specialize.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    Check the rims under the mintmark--embossed mintmarks are also not uncommon with this issue.
    image
  • capecape Posts: 1,621 ✭
    THE coin that I saw at Coinfest looks exactly like that piece... flip the coin on the side and you will see what appears to be rim filing - made to hide the added mintmark. From the blown up image there appears to be a rim ding and under that a light filing. Hope this helps!
    ed rodrigues
  • capecape Posts: 1,621 ✭
    Take an image of the edge and post it to the forum.
    ed rodrigues
  • gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭


    << <i>THE coin that I saw at Coinfest looks exactly like that piece... flip the coin on the side and you will see what appears to be rim filing - made to hide the added mintmark. From the blown up image there appears to be a rim ding and under that a light filing. Hope this helps! >>



    I think you're describing an embossed mintmark, not an added mintmark. Correct me if I'm wrong on that...
    image
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!

    We have a winner!

    Yes, the coin has a great strike. In fact, it's a killer strike for a 1924-S. But not for a 1924-P. The coin was not struck in San Francisco, but Philadelphia. It is an embossed mintmark.

    Nice work, Board detectives. image

    A cursory examination of the edge shows some vertical lines indicating some form of manipulation. Not that bad, but if you know what to look for it is very apparent.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • capecape Posts: 1,621 ✭
    Yes Guy- embossed and then hidden with the dings and filing to hide where they drilled the edge to add the mintmark.image
    ed rodrigues
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very sneaky astrorat as I thought you where being genuine! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    Here's a 1925-S I acquired and sent as a token of friendship to forum member Buffaloirontail, a terrific buffalo nickel afficionado and one of my early mentors. It looked normal to me and at that point in my career, I never thought twice about the rims. But Buffaloirontail checked the rims, which should be customary for tough dates. He sent it back, I photographed, and just check out the rim beneath the mintmark. THIS is what doctoring for an embossed mintmark looks like:
    imageimage
    image
    No guarantee that the 24-S has the same thing going on, but you should ALWAYS check the rims on these as a matter of course.
    Hats off to Buffaloirontail. He told some terrific stories and his takes on this series were always excellent. I wish he were here more!
    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    gyocomgd and Buffaloirontail, thanks for this image as beyond being tedious, the level of precision required is truly one of the most mind blowing mint mark forgeries I've seen! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too bad we can't find the guy who did this and have him be in jail for a few years.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭


    << <i>Too bad we can't find the guy who did this and have him be in jail for a few years. >>


    Quite the contrary in my opinion. I would love to learn, first hand, the technique and exact process of embossing a mintmark.
    It's an extremely delicate process, and the forger would need exceptional skill to pull it off.
    It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge image >>



    Stone, That was my first thought also after seeing how detailed the reverse and rim work is.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    The 25-S isn't worth a great deal of money in that grade, and I've rather enjoyed having it around as a cool example of a first-rate forgery. Buffalirontail said that, to the best of his knowledge, it hadn't been done with the 25-S before. If that's the case, I own a "condition rarity," lol.
    My understanding is that they drill a hole through the rim and insert the mint mark with a tool resembling a pair of tweezers. They somehow then force the mint mark up through the metal. It can't be easy, what with buffalo nickels being made of a particularly strong metal. And to align the mint mark nice and straight, position it properly in relation to the rim and epithet, and have it stand out relatively distinctly--well, it's nothing short of amazing in my opinion. Although I did not enjoy being ripped off, I have a certain grudging admiration for the criminals who did it.
    image
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe there was a decent description in the ANA correspondence course on counterfeit detection, but I don't have the text in front of me. I picked up the coin as an embossed mintmark alteration in the early 1980's from a dealer who purchased about 8 pieces as real. He was not a happy guy.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • capecape Posts: 1,621 ✭
    Actually Guy that 25s was a bad job- the 24s at Coinfest that I saw was much better done!!
    ed rodrigues
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am confusedimage
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

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  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,727 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It brings me to wonder why he/she wouldn't spend a little extra time to clean up the edge >>


    He practiced on coins like that '25S before moving on to 'make' high grade '24S's image
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  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is an amazing piece of work! And I agree , who ever did this should be in jail for a while!!
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

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