Weird question from dealer
JoeLewis
Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭✭
I sold some stuff at the Fresno Coin Show, and I got pretty good money! It was weird to me that for every coin (I sold about six) he stopped and asked me "What were you hoping to get for this one?" I don't like that question at all, and I didn't answer him. I want to hear his offer first. Isn't that the way it's supposed to go?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
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New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I'm sorry for being flippant, it is of course a negotiating strategy.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>I knew exactly what I wanted for them. Why does he need to know what I want for them to make me an offer? Me giving him an amount is just stupid. He is just trying to see if I know what the coins are worth. If he senses I don't know then I can expect nothing my extreme low-ball offers, right? >>
If you knew, why wouldn't you give him a price 10-20% over, you can then negotiate and save all the hassle.
Me: Wanna buy this coin?
Dealer: How much you want for it?
Me: To start negotiations, offers price slightly above sheet (but well below retail).
Dealer: No thanks.
Me: Aren't you going to counter?
Dealer: No. I don't think I can give you what you want for this one.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
K
<< <i>I will often ask the question if the item I am looking at is outside my area of expertise in collecting. I will often see something not even knowing for sure what it is but love the look and will buy it if the price is right. I do not want to insult the seller so I ask and counter if I feel the need to see if the dealer will lower the price a bit. >>
I have no problem with this, the problem I have is that everytime somone asks me that question and I tell them, they always scoff and hand the coin back while telling me there is no way they can pay that
<< <i>Why does he need to know what I want for them to make me an offer? >>
Some dealers ask because they want to know whether or not the seller has reasonable expectations regarding value (suprisingly enough, not all do). If the seller thinks his coins are way more valuable than the dealer does, the dealer may decline to make an offer.
If I offer too low compared to what you want, you might get mad and walk and not give me a chance to negotiate.
If I offer too high compared to what you want, you might walk away to see if you can get more elsewhere now that you are surprised by my high offer.
Only if I miraculously come up with almost the same number you want can we make a deal.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I want to hear his offer first. Isn't that the way it's supposed to go? >>
Depends on the dealer, but quite often I've found dealers asking me what I want for a coin. It's sort of a no-win situation...if they say yes to your amount then you'll think you should have asked for more and if you ask "too much" they'll just flat out say no many times. I guess in a selling transaction someone HAS to go first...so do some research as to what the coin is worth, Heritage Archives, eBay completed items etc...that will give you a good idea where to start negotiations.
<< <i>Some dealers ask because they want to know whether or not the seller has reasonable expectations regarding value (suprisingly enough, not all do). If the seller thinks his coins are way more valuable than the dealer does, the dealer may decline to make an offer. >>
And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>Sellers ask you first in case you give a price way below what they would have offered >>
Bingo. It gives the dealer an advantage.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And, then you die.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why does he need to know what I want for them to make me an offer? >>
Some dealers ask because they want to know whether or not the seller has reasonable expectations regarding value (suprisingly enough, not all do). If the seller thinks his coins are way more valuable than the dealer does, the dealer may decline to make an offer. >>
Exactly. If you know what you want for a piece and the dealer asks, go ahead and tell them a number, even the number you tell is above how much you really want. This will quickly tell the dealer whether in their opinion your expectations are reasonable. If the coin is right for the dealer and you make a good faith offer reasonable expectations, the dealer will not walk and you might be able to make a deal. If your number is too low, well your fault. If your number is too high, you will save yourself and the dealer time by having your number and them saying not interested. Dealers make money buying coins so they will likely not walk from a negotiation especially knowing you are in the right ballpark. Not answering the question is just begging for a lowball offer.
<< <i>And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price. >>
Yeah, I know how people feel about dealers. The OP opened with 'I sold some stuff at the Fresno Coin Show, and I got pretty good money!" and still managed to find fault with the dealer.
This isn't an unreasonable response. It's not about getting a rip. I'm willing to pay a fair price for a coin. However, when I'm set up at a show, and someone has an unrealistic expectation of value, I don't feel the need to get into an argument with or offend them. I'd rather pass. Occasionally, I will have someone press me on a price, and I will offer my rationale for what I would have offered, if I didn't.
And yes, that question can be a tool to get a better deal. Nothing wrong with that. When at a show, if you don't like the response from one dealer, there are several more to chose from. Hard to get ripped in that instance. Just ask around, you'll find the best price quick. If you get ripped as a seller at a show, you were too lazy to get the best price....
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
1- If the seller is stereotypical, the offer will be low, and perhaps providing a more reasonable starting point will get you in the same ballpark. If not, you weren't going to sell it anyway at his price.
2- If the seller is honest and fair, it shouldn't make a difference. If your price is fair and they can work with it, then the sale will happen. If on the off chance you were really low (you missed something, for example), an honest seller may even offer you higher. However, someone trying to lowball you (see #1) never would have done such a thing, regardless of where you started the negotiations.
<< <i>I want to hear his offer first. Isn't that the way it's supposed to go? >>
Collectors often offer us things at shows.
Sometimes they say tell us what they are looking for, sometimes (like in your case) they ask for an offer.
Everyone is different. There is no right or wrong way, and there is no one "way it's supposed to go".
<< <i>Life is full of these kinds of significantly hard problems.
And, then you die.
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<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
<< <i>Collectors often offer us things at shows.
Sometimes they say tell us what they are looking for, sometimes (like in your case) they ask for an offer.
Everyone is different. There is no right or wrong way, and there is no one "way it's supposed to go". >>
In this case, I feel there may be a slight difference in how things work. If someone is selling more generic items (common type coins, gold with mostly metal value, etc.) there can be very generic prices where a dealer may want to know if it's worth negotiating, since it may be futile if the seller wants double the going rate.
On the flip side, much of your inventory is esoteric, and prices aren't as established. That, and a good reputation, will make people feel comfortable asking you for an honest opinion on price, because they really may not know the market value and what they should expect. There are certainly dealers with whom I feel comfortable negotiating with a frank discussion of what I paid, where the market's gone, and perhaps what I'm hoping for and why. If I'm just walking a coin at a show, though, I'm much more likely to decide on a price beforehand and start from there.
AL
For a while, I didn't have written price tags on anything. If a dealer liked something, they asked for a price, and I gave it to them. It was "play or pass" -- if they didn't like the price, that was their right, but hardly anyone made counteroffers.
That worked fine for some stuff, but I found I was left with the lower-priced pieces I really didn't want to keep in the first place. I decided that maybe the problem was that nobody believe that I would really sell them for $10 (or whatever), so they didn't even bother "wasting their time" to ask.
So I changed my practice, and I labeled everything with the price I wanted.
That didn't work out well at all. For everyone, the sight of a written price was an instant on-button for haggling mode. "OK, so what do you really need for this?", they'd ask. There was clearly no malice. And that was from dealers who I already had a good relationship with, so I didn't think they were trying to be cute either. It seemed simply to be an automatic reflex.
So I changed my practice again, and I labeled everything with a bit more than the price I wanted.
That works fine. Everyone knows at least the general ballpark of what I want to get for each item. Everyone continues to ask for a discount. Everyone continues to get a "discount". Everyone (including me) goes home happy.
I'd personally prefer to list what I really want and do away with the dance, but at least it's only a one-step dance now. I can live with that.
Keep in mind that I don't sell a whole lot, and when I do sell anything I sell mostly "weird stuff", so my experiences might not be typical...
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR!
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>They are always trying to "read" you so they can shoot you the lowest amount possible. >>
That was my point. The question itself perhaps is not weird. It's just that he asked me after inspecting each coin even though I did not give him an answer each time.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR! >>
A concrete example (i.e., nubmers) might help. Suppose you have a coin stickered for sale at $240. Greysheet is $200. Buyer can see your sticker and sheet. Buyer assumes the mark up is for the sucker too stupid to invest in the sheet. He figures you'll come down. Buyer probably is not hypothesizing on why you are above sheet. So, buyer says to you what do you need. If you answer "make me an offer," and he comes back at $160 (going purposely low to try and draw out your real number), aren't you basically having to answer his original question, and having to give a number that is reasonably close to your bottom line number?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR! >>
A concrete example (i.e., nubmers) might help. Suppose you have a coin stickered for sale at $240. Greysheet is $200. Buyer can see your sticker and sheet. Buyer assumes the mark up is for the sucker too stupid to invest in the sheet. He figures you'll come down. Buyer probably is not hypothesizing on why you are above sheet. So, buyer says to you what do you need. If you answer "make me an offer," and he comes back at $160 (going purposely low to try and draw out your real number), aren't you basically having to answer his original question, and having to give a number that is reasonably close to your bottom line number? >>
I'm already tired of this thread. I'm sorry for starting it.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR! >>
A concrete example (i.e., nubmers) might help. Suppose you have a coin stickered for sale at $240. Greysheet is $200. Buyer can see your sticker and sheet. Buyer assumes the mark up is for the sucker too stupid to invest in the sheet. He figures you'll come down. Buyer probably is not hypothesizing on why you are above sheet. So, buyer says to you what do you need. If you answer "make me an offer," and he comes back at $160 (going purposely low to try and draw out your real number), aren't you basically having to answer his original question, and having to give a number that is reasonably close to your bottom line number? >>
I'm already tired of this thread. I'm sorry for starting it. >>
I feel your pain.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I've had that happen before, often with the following results.
Me: Wanna buy this coin?
Dealer: How much you want for it?
Me: To start negotiations, offers price slightly above sheet (but well below retail).
Dealer: No thanks.
Me: Aren't you going to counter?
Dealer: No. I don't think I can give you what you want for this one. >>
I have had the very same thing happen to me. More than once.
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
I was already planning to go to the shows armed with Grey Sheet, CoinValues, and EBay 2-week averages on the coins I want to sell for their discrete numismatic value (as opposed to those I will sell primarily for their metal content). Now, I shall augment that information with the approach jonathanb suggested!
Thanks!
"Question your assumptions."
"Intelligence is an evolutionary adaptation."
"What is your offer"
Then I'd hear his offer and either accept it or say no thanks, thanks for your time.
Steve
<< <i>Sellers ask you first in case you give a price way below what they would have offered >>
Or to avoid giving you a price way below your expectation to avoid an awkward situation. I have people tell be they would like $20 each for their IKE dollars and instead of saying what every fiber in my being is pushing me to say, I just tell them how nice their coins are and how I am not the right person for them.
It is not wrong to ask.
<< <i>In general, I have always been of the opinion that the party offering a coin for sale should submit the first number for negotiation. >>
I agree. There is nothing "weird" about the question.
Haven't you ever asked a seller how much they were looking to get for a coin?
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<< <i>In general, I have always been of the opinion that the party offering a coin for sale should submit the first number for negotiation. >>
I agree. There is nothing "weird" about the question.
Haven't you ever asked a seller how much they were looking to get for a coin? >>
<< <i>I ask the question whenever somebody comes up to my table at shows with coins to sell. It saves a considerable amount of time, because many people have crazy amounts in their heads. If it is an amount well over what the coin is worth, I simply pass. If it is close to what I'd pay I will make a counter offer. I'd suggest you work the dealer side of the table at least once. That would give you a greater perspective of why dealers are the way they are. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I ask the question whenever somebody comes up to my table at shows with coins to sell. It saves a considerable amount of time, because many people have crazy amounts in their heads. If it is an amount well over what the coin is worth, I simply pass. If it is close to what I'd pay I will make a counter offer. I'd suggest you work the dealer side of the table at least once. That would give you a greater perspective of why dealers are the way they are. >>
You always agree with your cousin.....
<< <i>I knew exactly what I wanted for them. Why does he need to know what I want for them to make me an offer? Me giving him an amount is just stupid. He is just trying to see if I know what the coins are worth. If he senses I don't know then I can expect nothing my extreme low-ball offers, right? >>
Not at all. Remember, dealers deal with all kinds of sellers and he is trying to figure out where you are. If it is a "$1000 coin" bid and you say $1100 then he knows you guys are close. If you say $1500, he'll move on quickly. you should try not to say $500 as that puts him in a tough situation.
--JErry