I clearly DID read what you posted (or else I would not have wasted my time answering). My reply stands, you expect dealers to have a price marked, so should you. Smart a** replies will get you nowhere. If you do not want answers, stop posting questions. Cheers, RickO
<< <i>I clearly DID read what you posted (or else I would not have wasted my time answering). My reply stands, you expect dealers to have a price marked, so should you. Smart a** replies will get you nowhere. If you do not want answers, stop posting questions. Cheers, RickO >>
When did I say that I expect dealers to have a price marked? I don't understand why you said that I didn't know what my coins were worth and that I needed to do some research. Show me where I even alluded to that let alone directly said that.
<< <i>I clearly DID read what you posted (or else I would not have wasted my time answering). My reply stands, you expect dealers to have a price marked, so should you. Smart a** replies will get you nowhere. If you do not want answers, stop posting questions. Cheers, RickO >>
When did I say that I expect dealers to have a price marked? I don't understand why you said that I didn't know what my coins were worth and that I needed to do some research. Show me where I even alluded to that let alone directly said that. >>
Question: When you see an unpriced coin in a dealer's stock that you want to buy do you...
1. simply make him an offer? or 2. do you ask him what his price is?
If 1. then Rick is wrong in his assumption, but if 2. he is right.
Bottom line...IMO, it's your coin; it's up to you to price it.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR! >>
A concrete example (i.e., nubmers) might help. Suppose you have a coin stickered for sale at $240. Greysheet is $200. Buyer can see your sticker and sheet. Buyer assumes the mark up is for the sucker too stupid to invest in the sheet. He figures you'll come down. Buyer probably is not hypothesizing on why you are above sheet. So, buyer says to you what do you need. If you answer "make me an offer," and he comes back at $160 (going purposely low to try and draw out your real number), aren't you basically having to answer his original question, and having to give a number that is reasonably close to your bottom line number? >>
I'm already tired of this thread. I'm sorry for starting it. >>
I don't see the two parties (collector and dealer) as being on an equal level here. The dealer is in the business of buying and selling coins. He is a professional in this area. I believe that puts him/her in a much different position than the collector.
The truthful answer to "What were you hoping to get for this coin" is, "I was hoping to get the most you're willing to pay me for this coin as long as it is above my baseline price." Why should I be willing to offer up my baseline price?
I guess the problem is that some people see the two parties as being equal in this scenario. I guess we will just disagree on that. For people that believe that, then I can certainly see how my viewpoint seems hypocritical...and perhaps illogical.
<< <i>I don't see the two parties (collector and dealer) as being on an equal level here. The dealer is in the business of buying and selling coins. He is a professional in this area. I believe that puts him/her in a much different position than the collector. >>
Yes, except when that "professional" doesn't know as much about a certain specialty area as the more knowledgeable experienced collector, and then he's a clueless fool, ripe for cherrypicking.
I've noticed that a lot of collectors seem to want to have it both ways.
<< <i>Some dealers ask because they want to know whether or not the seller has reasonable expectations regarding value (suprisingly enough, not all do). If the seller thinks his coins are way more valuable than the dealer does, the dealer may decline to make an offer. >>
And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price. >>
If I may, Droop, your response here sounds a little harsh. Although you may feel that way, seriously, not all dealers are here to "rip" off collectors. As a dealer, I ask the customer who is trying to sell a coin what they are asking first because I don't want to insult them with an offer they think might be too low, thereby possibly starting things off with hurt feelings. If a customer gives me a price I think is too high, I won't take it personally (like a collector might be apt to do) or be insulted and will usually tell them why I can't pay that price, showing them some of the price guides, and telling them where I need to be in order to resell the coin. This at least gives the customer some understanding about the basis of my offer.
Ever have a dealer tell you to shop it around and get the best offer and then bring it back and I'll beat it?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price. >>
If I may, Droop, your response here sounds a little harsh. Although you may feel that way, seriously, not all dealers are here to "rip" off collectors. >>
That's why I used the word "SOME." As in any industry, there are always some who will act less than ethically.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
I left an auto dealers office awhile back because I wouldn't tell him what "I wanted to pay for his new car." He steadfastly would not tell me what he wanted, or what his best price would be. I told him I was prepared to write a check that day, I ended up leaving.
<< <i>Ya gotta love how some people respond, if your not of the same thinkiing that they are you get a rude, sarcastic remark instead of there opinion, I don't need to mention there names as it is obvious in almost all posts they respond to. Why is that? AL >>
Amen, I don't know if they are rude or just have poor communication skills, it has happened to me twice here in two days.
I googled around to research the analogous situation of the dreaded salary question at a job interview ("what kind of salary were you looking for"), and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser, and a potential employee should never give a salary figure. Interesting stuff.
I have a number in my head, if you can guess what it is, add 35%!
Seriously, did you try selling to another collector who collects the same? They're running all over the place at the larger coin shows. I think the dealer was thinking the same thing. If your coin's values were made in a market, you need to sell them the same way. And if you haven't noticed, most dealers have laptops. And just as soon as you opened up about what you had, the entire place gets lit up. Yeah, the T-shirt with khaki jeans guy is coming your way..... Most are there to make money and there are runners between dealers, dealers and collectors and most important, the collectors. Most sells occur because someone can see you coming from a mile away. With that bit of wisdom, you can do the same.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>I googled around to research the analogous situation of the dreaded salary question at a job interview ("what kind of salary were you looking for"), and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser, and a potential employee should never give a salary figure. Interesting stuff. >>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
The problem is that you never want a set amount. You want any amount greater than or equal to your baseline amount. If my baseline amount is $50,00 and that's what they pay me then I am a winner. But, if my baseline is $50,000 and they pay me $75,000 then I am more of a winner, right?
I wonder if "some" dealers ask what do you want for the coin to avoid offering you what it is actually worth and maybe more then you were willing to take? I guess that proabably never happens. I have several dealers that I trust and buy from regularly and when I am selling a coin they look at it and tell me what it is worth to them. That is what I like. I am not bashing any coin dealers but lets face it all the TPG's came into being because selling grades were always higher then buying grades and a "few" bad dealers ripped people off. Good topic and always better to agree to disagree then be rude. AL
Dealers pay (sometimes a lot) for the opportunity to come to a show and do business. Spending time to work up a deal only to find a sellers expectations are not reasonable takes the dealer away from other business at the table, working the bourse, etc. Questions of this nature are designed to weed out deals that might take time and then not happen. Its difficult to assess any other way unless the parties have done business regularly.
If you are a regular seller at shows or have more than a few pieces, you should have your research done and be prepared to quote prices. its okay to mark them. Just indicate to the dealer whether they are net priced (meaning your bottom dollar), retail meaning you'll take much less, negotiable, etc. This will allow both parties to quickly assess the prospects of a deal and focus in on the coin(s) where business can be done. Both parties will save a lot of time.
If you are a more casual seller with one or two pieces, I think it is more reasonable to not state an asking price up front. However, you should be honest with your intentions. Are you really looking to sell or just get an idea what you can expect to get for it? Are you showing it around the room and taking the best offer? Some dealers may prefer not to offer based on their percieved chance of doing a deal. Don't take offense. Time is a precious commodity too.
Also, don't be afraid to share the research you've done on pricing. This will assist the dealer in evaluating the price and may help close that price gap. His only resource at the show may be CDN. If you've got the auction history for the date and grade and are willing to share the dealer may be more comfortable with your price.
As an antique dealer it has been my experience that most people have an unrealistic expectation of what their "stuff" is worth, I imagine this extends to the coin world as well. There are many ways to negotiate, and every sale can be different. Try to assess what you are selling beforehand, if your piece is what some dealers would call "merch" than be prepared to take less, if your piece is something really hot, many dealers would buy it just to have it for awhile and take a minimum return on it, thats the kind of piece you can get more for.. I think CRO put it best, there is no wrong or right way, just be civil and as friendly as possible, most people will respond to that.
<< <i>I left an auto dealers office awhile back because I wouldn't tell him what "I wanted to pay for his new car." He steadfastly would not tell me what he wanted, or what his best price would be. I told him I was prepared to write a check that day, I ended up leaving. >>
Usually at that point the dealer will just point to the number printed on the sticker and say "that's the price." Then it's up to the prospective customer to make the next offer to continue negotiations.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>As an antique dealer it has been my experience that most people have an unrealistic expectation of what their "stuff" is worth, >>
So, if what they seem to want for their "valuable" antique is out of line with your estimation of value, do you counter or (politely!) tell them to go pound sand?
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As an antique dealer it has been my experience that most people have an unrealistic expectation of what their "stuff" is worth, >>
So, if what they seem to want for their "valuable" antique is out of line with your estimation of value, do you counter or (politely!) tell them to go pound sand? >>
First off, I don't want to handle 95% of what is offered to me, I tend to specialize. I try to educate a seller. A woman at the village store told me she had a "mint first edition Zane Grey book, she saw one go at an auction for quite a bit so she assumes hers is worth at least half of what the other one was. Never mind that hers is a later reprint, and doesn't have a DJ, and is worth about $5-$10. I knew when she told me it was probably a reprint and had her check. "no, it's a first edition, it says so and then it lists all the other dates that they reprinted it" It said "first editiom 19xx" so in her mind it was a first edition. But I'm getting away from coins now.
<< <i>Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
So it's not just dealers who are greedy? Who'd've thunk it?
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
In what way would you lose? You got what the item was worth to you--and as the seller YOUR valuation is the only one that matters.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
So it's not just dealers who are greedy? Who'd've thunk it? >>
"Greed is good!!!"---Gordon Gekko in the movie "Wallstreet"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It doesn't happen often, but after reading the OP's replies in this thread, I think there is a dealer out there that I feel sorry for >>
Trust me, he made out just fine. He will able to sell each one of those coins at a profit easily. This man specialized in what I was selling him, so he knew exactly what they were worth. He was just trying to see if I knew what they were worth. We both walked away from the deal happy. I got fair prices for the coins...in no way did I get GREAT prices.
I need to clarify. When I say "I got pretty good money" I mean "I didn't get ripped off." I know a dealer has to be able to resell the stuff at a profit, so I will never get offered more than I paid for an item. I feel lucky when I break even!
One thing that I find amazing and that I did not expect to see is that many folks appear to go into a possible numismatic transaction with the idea that they will "win" or "lose" the negotiation. This is entirely alien to my thought process as both a buyer walking the bourse and as a dealer set up behind a table at a show. It has always been my philosophy that regardless of what side of the table you happen to be standing at that moment, that a sale or purchase between numismatically knowledgeable people can and should work for both parties and should leave both parties satisfied that they were treated fairly. Sometimes you make money; sometimes you make a lot of money; sometimes you lose money; sometimes you get hammered. Regardless, the sale is conducted within a largely open market with willing participants and need not be viewed as a battle, but rather might be better viewed as a professional or even friendly transaction.
One thing that I find amazing and that I did not expect to see is that many folks appear to go into a possible numismatic transaction with the idea that they will "win" or "lose" the negotiation. This is entirely alien to my thought process as both a buyer walking the bourse and as a dealer set up behind a table at a show. It has always been my philosophy that regardless of what side of the table you happen to be standing at that moment, that a sale or purchase between numismatically knowledgeable people can and should work for both parties and should leave both parties satisfied that they were treated fairly. Sometimes you make money; sometimes you make a lot of money; sometimes you lose money; sometimes you get hammered. Regardless, the sale is conducted within a largely open market with willing participants and need not be viewed as a battle, but rather might be better viewed as a professional or even friendly transaction. >>
Given that neither party is forced to buy/sell, that each person CHOOSES to accept the deal, then there can be no loser. I agree with you on that. Why would someone CHOOSE to lose on a deal?
Now, when dishonest people combine with uneducated people in a deal then there often is a winner and a loser (although I consider the dishonest person a loser in a different way.) So, I guess they both lose.
Anyhoo, would you ever expect a seller to turn down an offer that is too high? Probably not. There are many levels of "being satisfied with a deal."
A knowledgeable seller can choose to lose money on a single or multiple transactions based upon a change in market conditions or direction, a particularly bad initial purchase or the desire or need to have cash or equivalent immediately instead of inventory or materials. If you do enough buying and selling then these things may happen to you.
Regarding a seller who may turn down an offer that was too high, well, I have not been there yet, but I have been on the dealer end when a seller came up to me and priced their coin too low and I told them so before giving them more than they asked.
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
The problem is that you never want a set amount. You want any amount greater than or equal to your baseline amount. If my baseline amount is $50,00 and that's what they pay me then I am a winner. But, if my baseline is $50,000 and they pay me $75,000 then I am more of a winner, right? >>
Based on the websites I looked at, the thinking was this: if a prospective employee indicates a desired salary of $50,000, he/she is more likely to see something close to that even if the employer had been thinking closer to $75,000. Had the employer leaked that the salary range was $70,000 to $80,000, then the prospective employee would have said the range is acceptable and ended up with more much.
Comments
<< <i>I clearly DID read what you posted (or else I would not have wasted my time answering). My reply stands, you expect dealers to have a price marked, so should you. Smart a** replies will get you nowhere. If you do not want answers, stop posting questions. Cheers, RickO >>
When did I say that I expect dealers to have a price marked? I don't understand why you said that I didn't know what my coins were worth and that I needed to do some research. Show me where I even alluded to that let alone directly said that.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>
<< <i>I clearly DID read what you posted (or else I would not have wasted my time answering). My reply stands, you expect dealers to have a price marked, so should you. Smart a** replies will get you nowhere. If you do not want answers, stop posting questions. Cheers, RickO >>
When did I say that I expect dealers to have a price marked? I don't understand why you said that I didn't know what my coins were worth and that I needed to do some research. Show me where I even alluded to that let alone directly said that. >>
Question: When you see an unpriced coin in a dealer's stock that you want to buy do you...
1. simply make him an offer? or
2. do you ask him what his price is?
If 1. then Rick is wrong in his assumption,
but if 2. he is right.
Bottom line...IMO, it's your coin; it's up to you to price it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You expect dealers to put prices on their products... so why should you not have a price on that which you want to sell?? You seem a bit hypocritical here. The question is NOT weird, it is fair and reasonable. If you do not have an answer, you are poorly prepared. Go home and do your research, then go back and give a price. Cheers, RickO >>
You clearly did not read what I said. I knew exactly what the coins were worth and what I wanted for them. He had the greysheet there looking at it, so he knew what the coins were worth. He just wanted me to put up the amount first (which I don't feel is in my best interest.) He is the professional coin dealer here, not me. He can make me an offer...which he did...which was FAIR! >>
A concrete example (i.e., nubmers) might help. Suppose you have a coin stickered for sale at $240. Greysheet is $200. Buyer can see your sticker and sheet. Buyer assumes the mark up is for the sucker too stupid to invest in the sheet. He figures you'll come down. Buyer probably is not hypothesizing on why you are above sheet. So, buyer says to you what do you need. If you answer "make me an offer," and he comes back at $160 (going purposely low to try and draw out your real number), aren't you basically having to answer his original question, and having to give a number that is reasonably close to your bottom line number? >>
I'm already tired of this thread. I'm sorry for starting it. >>
That's happened to me lots of times.
The truthful answer to "What were you hoping to get for this coin" is, "I was hoping to get the most you're willing to pay me for this coin as long as it is above my baseline price." Why should I be willing to offer up my baseline price?
I guess the problem is that some people see the two parties as being equal in this scenario. I guess we will just disagree on that. For people that believe that, then I can certainly see how my viewpoint seems hypocritical...and perhaps illogical.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>I don't see the two parties (collector and dealer) as being on an equal level here. The dealer is in the business of buying and selling coins. He is a professional in this area. I believe that puts him/her in a much different position than the collector. >>
Yes, except when that "professional" doesn't know as much about a certain specialty area as the more knowledgeable experienced collector, and then he's a clueless fool, ripe for cherrypicking.
I've noticed that a lot of collectors seem to want to have it both ways.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers ask because they want to know whether or not the seller has reasonable expectations regarding value (suprisingly enough, not all do). If the seller thinks his coins are way more valuable than the dealer does, the dealer may decline to make an offer. >>
And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price. >>
If I may, Droop, your response here sounds a little harsh. Although you may feel that way, seriously, not all dealers are here to "rip" off collectors. As a dealer, I ask the customer who is trying to sell a coin what they are asking first because I don't want to insult them with an offer they think might be too low, thereby possibly starting things off with hurt feelings. If a customer gives me a price I think is too high, I won't take it personally (like a collector might be apt to do) or be insulted and will usually tell them why I can't pay that price, showing them some of the price guides, and telling them where I need to be in order to resell the coin. This at least gives the customer some understanding about the basis of my offer.
The Penny Lady®
The dealer's choice of word,"hoping," is poor.It's kind of a goofy way of asking the question,"How much do you want?,"in my opinion.
Some might say it's putdownish from the get go,an attempt to get the upper hand.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>"What were you hoping to get for this one?"
The dealer's choice of word,"hoping," is poor.It's kind of a goofy way of asking the question,"How much do you want?,"in my opinion.
Some might say it's putdownish from the get go,an attempt to get the upper hand. >>
That's reading WAY too much into it, IMO. I would not think twice about the word choice.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Ever have a dealer tell you to shop it around and get the best offer and then bring it back and I'll beat it? >>
I'll bet if other dealers found out he was doing that, he'd stop real fast.
<< <i>
<< <i>And some dealers ask because they only want to buy things as a "rip" because they don't like their margin if they pay a fair price. >>
If I may, Droop, your response here sounds a little harsh. Although you may feel that way, seriously, not all dealers are here to "rip" off collectors. >>
That's why I used the word "SOME." As in any industry, there are always some who will act less than ethically.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>Ya gotta love how some people respond, if your not of the same thinkiing that they are you get a rude, sarcastic remark instead of there opinion, I don't need to mention there names as it is obvious in almost all posts they respond to. Why is that?
AL >>
Amen, I don't know if they are rude or just have poor communication skills, it has happened to me twice here in two days.
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"?
I have a number in my head, if you can guess what it is, add 35%!
Seriously, did you try selling to another collector who collects the same? They're running all over the place at the larger coin shows. I think the dealer was thinking the same thing. If your coin's values were made in a market, you need to sell them the same way. And if you haven't noticed, most dealers have laptops. And just as soon as you opened up about what you had, the entire place gets lit up. Yeah, the T-shirt with khaki jeans guy is coming your way..... Most are there to make money and there are runners between dealers, dealers and collectors and most important, the collectors. Most sells occur because someone can see you coming from a mile away. With that bit of wisdom, you can do the same.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I googled around to research the analogous situation of the dreaded salary question at a job interview ("what kind of salary were you looking for"), and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser, and a potential employee should never give a salary figure. Interesting stuff. >>
It's amazing, then, that anyone ever gets hired.
<< <i>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
The problem is that you never want a set amount. You want any amount greater than or equal to your baseline amount. If my baseline amount is $50,00 and that's what they pay me then I am a winner. But, if my baseline is $50,000 and they pay me $75,000 then I am more of a winner, right?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
AL
Dealers pay (sometimes a lot) for the opportunity to come to a show and do business. Spending time to work up a deal only to find a sellers expectations are not reasonable takes the dealer away from other business at the table, working the bourse, etc. Questions of this nature are designed to weed out deals that might take time and then not happen. Its difficult to assess any other way unless the parties have done business regularly.
If you are a regular seller at shows or have more than a few pieces, you should have your research done and be prepared to quote prices. its okay to mark them. Just indicate to the dealer whether they are net priced (meaning your bottom dollar), retail meaning you'll take much less, negotiable, etc. This will allow both parties to quickly assess the prospects of a deal and focus in on the coin(s) where business can be done. Both parties will save a lot of time.
If you are a more casual seller with one or two pieces, I think it is more reasonable to not state an asking price up front. However, you should be honest with your intentions. Are you really looking to sell or just get an idea what you can expect to get for it? Are you showing it around the room and taking the best offer? Some dealers may prefer not to offer based on their percieved chance of doing a deal. Don't take offense. Time is a precious commodity too.
Also, don't be afraid to share the research you've done on pricing. This will assist the dealer in evaluating the price and may help close that price gap. His only resource at the show may be CDN. If you've got the auction history for the date and grade and are willing to share the dealer may be more comfortable with your price.
WH
Wow, what a lot of response to this one!
<< <i>I left an auto dealers office awhile back because I wouldn't tell him what "I wanted to pay for his new car." He steadfastly would not tell me what he wanted, or what his best price would be. I told him I was prepared to write a check that day, I ended up leaving. >>
Usually at that point the dealer will just point to the number printed on the sticker and say "that's the price." Then it's up to the prospective customer to make the next offer to continue negotiations.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>As an antique dealer it has been my experience that most people have an unrealistic expectation of what their "stuff" is worth, >>
So, if what they seem to want for their "valuable" antique is out of line with your estimation of value, do you counter or (politely!) tell them to go pound sand?
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>As an antique dealer it has been my experience that most people have an unrealistic expectation of what their "stuff" is worth, >>
So, if what they seem to want for their "valuable" antique is out of line with your estimation of value, do you counter or (politely!) tell them to go pound sand? >>
First off, I don't want to handle 95% of what is offered to me, I tend to specialize. I try to educate a seller. A woman at the village store told me she had a "mint first edition Zane Grey book, she saw one go at an auction for quite a bit so she assumes hers is worth at least half of what the other one was. Never mind that hers is a later reprint, and doesn't have a DJ, and is worth about $5-$10. I knew when she told me it was probably a reprint and had her check. "no, it's a first edition, it says so and then it lists all the other dates that they reprinted it" It said "first editiom 19xx" so in her mind it was a first edition. But I'm getting away from coins now.
<< <i>Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
So it's not just dealers who are greedy? Who'd've thunk it?
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<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
In what way would you lose? You got what the item was worth to you--and as the seller YOUR valuation is the only one that matters.
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<< <i>Since you don't know what the dealer would have offered, it's quite possible that you would be the loser if the dealer would have been willing to offer you more than your initial ask price. >>
So it's not just dealers who are greedy? Who'd've thunk it?
"Greed is good!!!"---Gordon Gekko in the movie "Wallstreet"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It doesn't happen often, but after reading the OP's replies in this thread, I think there is a dealer out there that I feel sorry for
Trust me, he made out just fine. He will able to sell each one of those coins at a profit easily. This man specialized in what I was selling him, so he knew exactly what they were worth. He was just trying to see if I knew what they were worth. We both walked away from the deal happy. I got fair prices for the coins...in no way did I get GREAT prices.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
One thing that I find amazing and that I did not expect to see is that many folks appear to go into a possible numismatic transaction with the idea that they will "win" or "lose" the negotiation. This is entirely alien to my thought process as both a buyer walking the bourse and as a dealer set up behind a table at a show. It has always been my philosophy that regardless of what side of the table you happen to be standing at that moment, that a sale or purchase between numismatically knowledgeable people can and should work for both parties and should leave both parties satisfied that they were treated fairly. Sometimes you make money; sometimes you make a lot of money; sometimes you lose money; sometimes you get hammered. Regardless, the sale is conducted within a largely open market with willing participants and need not be viewed as a battle, but rather might be better viewed as a professional or even friendly transaction.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Wow, this thread has really taken off.
One thing that I find amazing and that I did not expect to see is that many folks appear to go into a possible numismatic transaction with the idea that they will "win" or "lose" the negotiation. This is entirely alien to my thought process as both a buyer walking the bourse and as a dealer set up behind a table at a show. It has always been my philosophy that regardless of what side of the table you happen to be standing at that moment, that a sale or purchase between numismatically knowledgeable people can and should work for both parties and should leave both parties satisfied that they were treated fairly. Sometimes you make money; sometimes you make a lot of money; sometimes you lose money; sometimes you get hammered. Regardless, the sale is conducted within a largely open market with willing participants and need not be viewed as a battle, but rather might be better viewed as a professional or even friendly transaction. >>
Given that neither party is forced to buy/sell, that each person CHOOSES to accept the deal, then there can be no loser. I agree with you on that. Why would someone CHOOSE to lose on a deal?
Now, when dishonest people combine with uneducated people in a deal then there often is a winner and a loser (although I consider the dishonest person a loser in a different way.) So, I guess they both lose.
Anyhoo, would you ever expect a seller to turn down an offer that is too high? Probably not. There are many levels of "being satisfied with a deal."
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Regarding a seller who may turn down an offer that was too high, well, I have not been there yet, but I have been on the dealer end when a seller came up to me and priced their coin too low and I told them so before giving them more than they asked.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
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<< <i>and found that cardinal rule to be: the first person who mentions price is often the loser >>
If you know how much you want, you tell someone, and they pay it, are you still the "loser"? >>
The problem is that you never want a set amount. You want any amount greater than or equal to your baseline amount. If my baseline amount is $50,00 and that's what they pay me then I am a winner. But, if my baseline is $50,000 and they pay me $75,000 then I am more of a winner, right? >>
Based on the websites I looked at, the thinking was this: if a prospective employee indicates a desired salary of $50,000, he/she is more likely to see something close to that even if the employer had been thinking closer to $75,000. Had the employer leaked that the salary range was $70,000 to $80,000, then the prospective employee would have said the range is acceptable and ended up with more much.