<< <i>Just to tell the WHOLE story; Pujols had only 1 at bat with a runner in scoring position during the 2009 NLDS, and he drove the run in. He had only 2 at bats total with a runner even on base. The rest of the time he was intentionally walked by the cowardly Dodgers anytime there was a runner on base or in scoring position in front of Pujols. The plan was to not allow Pujols to beat them, and by pitching around him, it worked out for the Dodgers. With that said, he was 1/1 with a runner in scoring position, and still hit .300 for the NLDS.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
Good points STM. I can't dispute... but at least my "cowardly Dodgers" are still playing.
As far as you and the other main Pujols nut job on here I think you guys are just straight FANATICS. Good for you. I suppose I am jealous I don't have anything in my life, beyond my family, that I care that much about. Good for you. You guys are just really over the top but hey it's your obsession so your call how far over the top to be. >>
Yeah, they are still playing. It's not the end of the world for us Cardinals fans. We won the World Series in 2006, and we will be back .
Fanatics? Why, I believe you are an obvious hypocrite, because you are a fan of a team, player, or sport, or you would not be here as well.
How far over the top is it to like a player, and admire what they do to help others in their private life? Really, the smear campaign and nonsense needs to cease. I have never seen any board with as much bitterness and animosity for Pujols fans as this place has. No wonder so many people have left this board for other sites, and it's because the mods won't do anything to stop the nonsense, so everyone can openly enjoy their favorite players on here, without fear of being attacked for it. If you only knew just how many people have emailed me and said exactly that..
My faith and family are first, so it's nice that you think you know my priorities. I work hard, and in my spare time away from work, I enjoy St. Louis Cardinals baseball with my son. Yeah, a dad and son enjoying baseball and bonding sure is nutty. My gosh, what am I thinking?? Wise up!
<< <i>There's absolutely nothing wrong with admiring a good player.
The problem is that you slam us with it continually by posting a link every rare time a writer lists him as one of the best, you start threads with titles like "Is Pujols the greatest ever?" or "What do you think of this Pujols Bowman RC?" or "ALERT! Fake Pujols auto on ebay", and you give us a neverending supply of links to Pujols items online.
I counted no fewer than 60 threads with Pujols in the title, it seems that half of them started by either FrankHardy or Fandango.
And then you complain that we are just "Pujols haters".
I don't care how good the guy is, you have made everyone sick of him. >>
Please show me exactly how many threads I have started in my 2 years on here about Pujols. You will see it's not all that many. I would rather see a post about Pujols than hearing some idiot like LSU tigers popping off ignorance about nothing in every other thread on this forum. That seems to be an everyday occurance..
I may have started a few Pujols threads, but if you look at the percentage out of the total threads that I have started, you will see that it is few. I do not consider myself a fanatic. I just enjoy discussing lists and comparing different players. I happen to be a St Louis Cardinals fan. I have seen most of the Cardinals games since 2001. Gosh, I wonder who my (and my 8 year old son's) favorite player is.
My faith and family are definitely first in my life. I do not like being slammed for having a grown up discussion. All I have stated are facts or my opinions. I have never, ever (look it up) slammed ANYONE on this board. If I have ever said ANYTHING derogatory towards ANYONE on these boards. please show me. If I have, it is always followed by a wink icon and it is known by the recipient as just good, clean fun.
Please don't lump me in as a "jock sniffer", or a Pujols worshipper. Much of the time, I choose to ignore the "Pujols wars". In this thread, I just happen to have posted second, and then I get lumped in with someone that has Pujols as an idol.
I happen to think that a good argument was made that an active player probably should not be on this list because his "old man" years are not included. I understand that. I just think it is pretty neat that my family's favorite player was included on an "all time" list by a well respected writer. IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT? If it is, then I guess I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a place where we could enjoy sports and enjoy our great hobby.
Again - please show me where I have disrespected or slammed anybody.
I happen to really think Albert Pujols is a fantastic player. However, having played fewer than 10 years in the majors doesn't make him a consideration for even a top twenty player.
Number six of all-time??? What's that guy smoking.
They are all great hitters being discussed. And yes Albert is well on his way; but I too believe the career must be close or over to be on these lists.
We could have had the same discussion about Thomas 10 years ago. Nine years is not long enough to rank someone as one of the 10 greatest hitters in baseball history. Lots of 'big' guys tend to start breaking down once they hit 30.
I do believe Aaron is in the top 10 based on his monsterous career numbers and consistant greatness. Here's my problem with Bonds. I believe his career average was in the high .280's before the suspected usage. .280's does not get it done on this list. People argue that Mays should be on the list-- this is not about his legs, arms or glove. It's solely about batting and Mays was not one of the 10 best. Willie is in the top 3 to have ever played all around.
The guy averaged 29 HRs a year and had only 4 seasons out of 18 with 100+ RBIs ......and he was a 3/4 hitter on the Yankees.
DiMaggio is 10X the hitter Mickey was, Mays and Aaron are better too.... Hey even the guy Mantle was named after.... Mickey Cochrane was a better hitter than Mantle and teammate Berra too.
Id put Mantle about #20-25 with guys like Killebrew, Mathews, FRoby, Banks, Brett, Kiner, etc.
PS Where is Yogi Berra? He had many a season where he had more Homeruns than Strikeouts (like DiMaggio). In my book any MLB player that can hit more HRs than SOs is a great hitter! Period!
1 . i have been saying for years i think Pujols is a top 5 player of all -time...now some are agree with me.
2. not suprised that the usual Pujols thread bashers chimed in ...NAM again with nothing to add but hate and trollness, suprised his other half LSU hasnt chimed in...
3. another predictable post by larrYAllen (the Pujols/fandango troll)
4. when will people say he has had enough years to be considered an alltime great? 12 ? 15 ?
5. forget longevity, take his first 9 years AND COMPARE THAT TO EVERYONE ELSES BEST 9 years and you know what you have? Pujols moves up the list!
" You really think Ted Williams is better than Pujols? Really? Also, do you really think Pujols shouldn't be on that top 10 list yet? He's had 9 great years. Look at the statistics. The guy is amazing. It excites me just writing his name. PUJOLS. I hope you reconsider your thoughts. Pujols is way better than Ted Williams. "
LOL thanks for the laugh.
I would love to see Teddy Ballgame destroy todays pitchers and hit .400 a few times doing it. His OPS would dwarf roid head barry as well.
The Bottom ten are: 10. Roy McMillan 9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm) 8. Alfredo Griffin 6. George McBride 5. Mickey Doolan 4. Mark Belanger 3. Everett Scott 2. Tim Foli 1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players.
<< <i>How about a compromise to calm things down a bit--
Pujols is probably the best hitter of his generation (if he's clean).
Mays is probably the best hitter of his generation.
Williams is probably the best hitter of his generation.
And Ruth is probably the best hitter of his generation. >>
THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL! EVERY BODY KNOWS THAT PUJOLS IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME! IT IS NOT EVEN WORTH DISCUSSING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. >>
I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people (cough fandango heh) but really, everyone on the boards is fine by me! Pujols is a stud. John
<< <i>The Bottom ten are: 10. Roy McMillan 9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm) 8. Alfredo Griffin 6. George McBride 5. Mickey Doolan 4. Mark Belanger 3. Everett Scott 2. Tim Foli 1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
Get serious. Where's Ray Oyler and his career .175 BA? We're talking a guy who hit .135 as a full-time player for the '68 Tigers...
What Pujols does in 2016 will not change what he did in the past nine years. . .
Strongly disagree with the authors ideas that Hornsby, Foxx, Cobb, Gehrig, Ruth should all make the list. Find another sports skill of equal importance where half of the top 10 athletes all come from the 1930s and earlier. With Williams, Musial and Mantle, that means only two of the top 10 started their careers after 1951
Mays was perhaps the greatest defensive centerfielder in history, but only slightly better than Mantle overall. . .
It is a stretch to put Koufax in the top 10, if you don't discredit the accomplishments of pitchers like Alexander and Mathewson, like this author chooses, he shouldn't make it all. Gibson was the best pitcher of that generation
Even when Williams was flying planes in a warzone, he was a great hitter therefore should be number one. Putting him two is only a minor quibble
I will say that it is a well thought out list. I just find the thought process to be a bit odd
<< <i>The Bottom ten are: 10. Roy McMillan 9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm) 8. Alfredo Griffin 6. George McBride 5. Mickey Doolan 4. Mark Belanger 3. Everett Scott 2. Tim Foli 1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
Get serious. Where's Ray Oyler and his career .175 BA? We're talking a guy who hit .135 as a full-time player for the '68 Tigers...
Not enough plate appearances?
Tabe >>
--------------------------------------------------- The author, Joe Posnanski, said in the article that he took the top 538 hitters of all time, which is a pretty elite group, even if you're last.
I don't know the total number of position players who ever played the game, but I do know that it's way more than 538.
I think the 6000 plate appearances is the key. It's hard to amass 6000 trips to the plate when you can't hit a curveball.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>The Bottom ten are: 10. Roy McMillan 9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm) 8. Alfredo Griffin 6. George McBride 5. Mickey Doolan 4. Mark Belanger 3. Everett Scott 2. Tim Foli 1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
#1 Bill Bergen --- look it up.
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people (cough fandango heh) but really, everyone on the boards is fine by me! Pujols is a stud. John >>
<< <i>I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people >>
I wholeheartedly agree. Shane takes it as a friendly jab no different than a conversation at a bar between a Red Sox fan and a Yankees fan. The other 2 or 3 Pujols mancrushers act like you just slapped his/her momma.
We could have had the same discussion about Thomas 10 years ago. Nine years is not long enough to rank someone as one of the 10 greatest hitters in baseball history. Lots of 'big' guys tend to start breaking down once they hit 30. >>
Thomas' career sloped downward like they all do, but he's still one of the best hitters of all time in the scope of his career.
Pujols isn't the typical "big guy," at least not on Thomas' level. He's not a small man, but his frame isn't as injury prone as someone like the Big Hurt. I think AP will continue to produce for some time.
This season may have been has last best, but his numbers will be strong for the next couple of seasons I'm sure.
He was not a power hitter. This list is for all around hitter. Cobb was a good enough singles hitter to make up for lack of power, therefore, he "made it" to number 9. That is my take, anyway. That's why Rose, Gwynn, and Boggs are not in the top 10 or 20. If this were a "batting average" hitters list, Ty Cobb would be number one, and it wouldn't be close.
<< <i>Yaz was a great all-around hitter and the last to win the triple crown. I wonder where he ended up on the list.... >>
Nah, he wasn't a great all-around hitter. He had a 4-year run from 67-70 where he was a great all-around hitter. The rest of his career he was on the low-end of good. Great all-around hitters drive in more than 102 RBI more than twice* when they're hitting 3rd, 4th, 5th. They also don't have 14 (out of 23) seasons with less than 20 HR and only 3 above 30.
Tabe
p.s. How odd that Yaz ended up with three seasons of exactly 102 RBI. Kinda like Hank Aaron and his four seasons of exactly 44 HR.
He was not a power hitter. This list is for all around hitter. Cobb was a good enough singles hitter to make up for lack of power, therefore, he "made it" to number 9. That is my take, anyway. That's why Rose, Gwynn, and Boggs are not in the top 10 or 20. If this were a "batting average" hitters list, Ty Cobb would be number one, and it wouldn't be close.
When Ty Cobb played the game baseball used a much softer ball. In today's juiced up game even average players can hit 20+ homers a year.
Albert Pujols is on my list at number 29 at this point. If his has another 5-6 good years he "might" break the top fifteen. In no way does he deserve to be in the top ten of all-time at this point.
<< <i>He was not a power hitter. This list is for all around hitter. Cobb was a good enough singles hitter to make up for lack of power, therefore, he "made it" to number 9. That is my take, anyway. That's why Rose, Gwynn, and Boggs are not in the top 10 or 20. If this were a "batting average" hitters list, Ty Cobb would be number one, and it wouldn't be close.
When Ty Cobb played the game baseball used a much softer ball. In today's juiced up game even average players can hit 20+ homers a year.
Albert Pujols is on my list at number 29 at this point. If his has another 5-6 good years he "might" break the top fifteen. In no way does he deserve to be in the top ten of all-time at this point. >>
Come on... What a joke..
By the end of next year, Pujols should reach 400 homeruns(needs 34), and within another 5 years he should easily be at 500 homeruns or beyond. And even if Pujols slumps in batting average, slugging and on base % for the next 5 seasons, he still will be at or above .320 batting average, .400 on base %, and .600 slugging % . Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %? Right off the top of my head they are Ruth, Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx.
"Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %?" ----- Your namesake comes pretty close to those numbers, StanTheManMusial.
.331 475 .418 .559
~
Edited to fix a typo.
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>"Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %?" ----- Your namesake come pretty close to those numbers, StanTheManMusial.
.331 475 .418 .559
~ >>
Yeah, Mr. Musial was pretty amazing. Stan Musial said if he knew homeruns were going to be the big deal that they are today, he might have tried to hit more of them. I tend to believe him, as Stan Musial's word is very credible to anyone that ever was around him. Not sure there has ever been a nicer guy, or more decent human being to ever play MLB.
By the end of next year, Pujols should reach 400 homeruns(needs 34), and within another 5 years he should easily be at 500 homeruns or beyond. And even if Pujols slumps in batting average, slugging and on base % for the next 5 seasons, he still will be at or above .320 batting average, .400 on base %, and .600 slugging % . Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %? Right off the top of my head they are Ruth, Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx.
If and when Pujols reaches those number we can just start to talk about considering him on an ALL-TIME top ten list. Right now he's not even on the radar.
<< <i>By the end of next year, Pujols should reach 400 homeruns(needs 34), and within another 5 years he should easily be at 500 homeruns or beyond. And even if Pujols slumps in batting average, slugging and on base % for the next 5 seasons, he still will be at or above .320 batting average, .400 on base %, and .600 slugging % . Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %? Right off the top of my head they are Ruth, Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx.
If and when Pujols reaches those number we can just start to talk about considering him on an ALL-TIME top ten list. Right now he's not even on the radar.
I noticed you use the word he SHOULD a lot. >>
I used "should" because even with average seasons of 27 homeruns a year, he gets to 500 in 5 seasons from now. Heck, hitting 35-40 a year makes it happen even faster. I know some of you want so badly to keep Pujols out of the top 10 conversation, but the stats don't lie. He is most certainly on the radar right now, and he will just continue to build some amazing stats. Let's not be ridiculous..
<< <i>No mention yet of the great Duke Snider. Where does he stack up in all of this? >>
You're kidding right???
Lifetime BA under .300, never winning a batting title nor a MVP Award....Duke was certainly HOF worthy, but let's no kid ourselves in the discussion of the top 10 hitters of all time
Successful dealings with Wcsportscards94558, EagleEyeKid, SamsGirl214, Volver, DwayneDrain, Oaksey25, Griffins, Cardfan07, Etc.
I was by no means implying that Snider was in the top ten. The author does list players going back further down the list. I thought perhaps someone had access to the whole list and perhaps knew where Snider fell.
I have always heard talk describing Snider was Brooklyn's version of Mantle.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
This really comes down to semantics... this list has some great Hitters, but also some awesome sluggers. Honestly when I think of great HITTERS i think of Boggs and Gwynn, probably the two greatest in the past couple of decades.
I dont think any active player should be on this list unless they are on their last legs and have a full careers worth of numbers to back this up.
The ability to hit the ball far is just as much a HITTING skill as hitting the ball not very far, but just happens to avoid the nine fielders. Boggs and Gwynn don't come close to Bonds and Pujols over the past few decades
Four years as one of the best hitters in baseball, plus another 12 at an All-Star level is a truly great career only a few have matched. Well below Musial, behind Robinson, right there with Gwynn, Kaline, Brett
The article was titled "The 10 greatest. . . " If we want to discuss the top 50, we could keep throwing names out 'til the end of time (not something I would necessarily be opposed to, though). Snider is closer to Will Clark than Mickey Mantle
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>Just to tell the WHOLE story; Pujols had only 1 at bat with a runner in scoring position during the 2009 NLDS, and he drove the run in. He had only 2 at bats total with a runner even on base. The rest of the time he was intentionally walked by the cowardly Dodgers anytime there was a runner on base or in scoring position in front of Pujols. The plan was to not allow Pujols to beat them, and by pitching around him, it worked out for the Dodgers. With that said, he was 1/1 with a runner in scoring position, and still hit .300 for the NLDS.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
Good points STM. I can't dispute... but at least my "cowardly Dodgers" are still playing.
As far as you and the other main Pujols nut job on here I think you guys are just straight FANATICS. Good for you. I suppose I am jealous I don't have anything in my life, beyond my family, that I care that much about. Good for you. You guys are just really over the top but hey it's your obsession so your call how far over the top to be. >>
Yeah, they are still playing. It's not the end of the world for us Cardinals fans. We won the World Series in 2006, and we will be back .
Fanatics? Why, I believe you are an obvious hypocrite, because you are a fan of a team, player, or sport, or you would not be here as well.
How far over the top is it to like a player, and admire what they do to help others in their private life? Really, the smear campaign and nonsense needs to cease. I have never seen any board with as much bitterness and animosity for Pujols fans as this place has. No wonder so many people have left this board for other sites, and it's because the mods won't do anything to stop the nonsense, so everyone can openly enjoy their favorite players on here, without fear of being attacked for it. If you only knew just how many people have emailed me and said exactly that..
My faith and family are first, so it's nice that you think you know my priorities. I work hard, and in my spare time away from work, I enjoy St. Louis Cardinals baseball with my son. Yeah, a dad and son enjoying baseball and bonding sure is nutty. My gosh, what am I thinking?? Wise up!
<< <i>There's absolutely nothing wrong with admiring a good player.
The problem is that you slam us with it continually by posting a link every rare time a writer lists him as one of the best, you start threads with titles like "Is Pujols the greatest ever?" or "What do you think of this Pujols Bowman RC?" or "ALERT! Fake Pujols auto on ebay", and you give us a neverending supply of links to Pujols items online.
I counted no fewer than 60 threads with Pujols in the title, it seems that half of them started by either FrankHardy or Fandango.
And then you complain that we are just "Pujols haters".
I don't care how good the guy is, you have made everyone sick of him. >>
Please show me exactly how many threads I have started in my 2 years on here about Pujols. You will see it's not all that many. I would rather see a post about Pujols than hearing some idiot like LSU tigers popping off ignorance about nothing in every other thread on this forum. That seems to be an everyday occurance..
My faith and family are definitely first in my life. I do not like being slammed for having a grown up discussion. All I have stated are facts or my opinions. I have never, ever (look it up) slammed ANYONE on this board. If I have ever said ANYTHING derogatory towards ANYONE on these boards. please show me. If I have, it is always followed by a wink icon and it is known by the recipient as just good, clean fun.
Please don't lump me in as a "jock sniffer", or a Pujols worshipper. Much of the time, I choose to ignore the "Pujols wars". In this thread, I just happen to have posted second, and then I get lumped in with someone that has Pujols as an idol.
I happen to think that a good argument was made that an active player probably should not be on this list because his "old man" years are not included. I understand that. I just think it is pretty neat that my family's favorite player was included on an "all time" list by a well respected writer. IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT? If it is, then I guess I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a place where we could enjoy sports and enjoy our great hobby.
Again - please show me where I have disrespected or slammed anybody.
Shane
Pujols is probably the best hitter of his generation (if he's clean).
Mays is probably the best hitter of his generation.
Williams is probably the best hitter of his generation.
And Ruth is probably the best hitter of his generation.
<< <i>How about a compromise to calm things down a bit--
Pujols is probably the best hitter of his generation (if he's clean).
Mays is probably the best hitter of his generation.
Williams is probably the best hitter of his generation.
And Ruth is probably the best hitter of his generation. >>
THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL! EVERY BODY KNOWS THAT PUJOLS IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME! IT IS NOT EVEN WORTH DISCUSSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shane
"Mays is probably the best hitter of his generation."
-----
That is if you don't want to get into the whole Mays vs. Mantle debate.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
Number six of all-time??? What's that guy smoking.
<< <i>
<< <i>How about a compromise to calm things down a bit--
Pujols is probably the best hitter of his generation (if he's clean).
>>
THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL! EVERY BODY KNOWS THAT PUJOLS IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME! IT IS NOT EVEN WORTH DISCUSSING!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
To some he is the bestest.
Their mantra is " Death to the infantiles ( Thats a joke son ) "
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Albert Pujols 2009 = Frank Thomas 1998
We could have had the same discussion about Thomas 10 years ago. Nine years is not long enough to rank someone as one of the 10 greatest hitters in baseball history. Lots of 'big' guys tend to start breaking down once they hit 30.
The guy averaged 29 HRs a year and had only 4 seasons out of 18 with 100+ RBIs ......and he was a 3/4 hitter on the Yankees.
DiMaggio is 10X the hitter Mickey was, Mays and Aaron are better too.... Hey even the guy Mantle was named after.... Mickey Cochrane was a better hitter than Mantle and teammate Berra too.
Id put Mantle about #20-25 with guys like Killebrew, Mathews, FRoby, Banks, Brett, Kiner, etc.
PS Where is Yogi Berra? He had many a season where he had more Homeruns than Strikeouts (like DiMaggio).
In my book any MLB player that can hit more HRs than SOs is a great hitter! Period!
PSS where is Honus and Sisler?
flawed list.
a few things..
1 . i have been saying for years i think Pujols is a top 5 player of all -time...now some are agree with me.
2. not suprised that the usual Pujols thread bashers chimed in ...NAM again with nothing to add but hate and trollness, suprised his other half LSU hasnt chimed in...
3. another predictable post by larrYAllen (the Pujols/fandango troll)
4. when will people say he has had enough years to be considered an alltime great? 12 ? 15 ?
5. forget longevity, take his first 9 years AND COMPARE THAT TO EVERYONE ELSES BEST 9 years and you know what you have? Pujols moves up the list!
LOL thanks for the laugh.
I would love to see Teddy Ballgame destroy todays pitchers and hit .400 a few times doing it. His OPS would dwarf roid head barry as well.
You don't count your alt who already posted in this thread!?
10. Roy McMillan
9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm)
8. Alfredo Griffin
6. George McBride
5. Mickey Doolan
4. Mark Belanger
3. Everett Scott
2. Tim Foli
1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players.
<< <i>
<< <i>How about a compromise to calm things down a bit--
Pujols is probably the best hitter of his generation (if he's clean).
Mays is probably the best hitter of his generation.
Williams is probably the best hitter of his generation.
And Ruth is probably the best hitter of his generation. >>
THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL! EVERY BODY KNOWS THAT PUJOLS IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME! IT IS NOT EVEN WORTH DISCUSSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people (cough fandango heh)
but really, everyone on the boards is fine by me!
Pujols is a stud.
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
<< <i>The Bottom ten are:
10. Roy McMillan
9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm)
8. Alfredo Griffin
6. George McBride
5. Mickey Doolan
4. Mark Belanger
3. Everett Scott
2. Tim Foli
1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
Get serious. Where's Ray Oyler and his career .175 BA? We're talking a guy who hit .135 as a full-time player for the '68 Tigers...
Not enough plate appearances?
Tabe
Strongly disagree with the authors ideas that Hornsby, Foxx, Cobb, Gehrig, Ruth should all make the list. Find another sports skill of equal importance where half of the top 10 athletes all come from the 1930s and earlier. With Williams, Musial and Mantle, that means only two of the top 10 started their careers after 1951
Mays was perhaps the greatest defensive centerfielder in history, but only slightly better than Mantle overall. . .
It is a stretch to put Koufax in the top 10, if you don't discredit the accomplishments of pitchers like Alexander and Mathewson, like this author chooses, he shouldn't make it all. Gibson was the best pitcher of that generation
Even when Williams was flying planes in a warzone, he was a great hitter therefore should be number one. Putting him two is only a minor quibble
I will say that it is a well thought out list. I just find the thought process to be a bit odd
<< <i>
<< <i>The Bottom ten are:
10. Roy McMillan
9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm)
8. Alfredo Griffin
6. George McBride
5. Mickey Doolan
4. Mark Belanger
3. Everett Scott
2. Tim Foli
1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
Get serious. Where's Ray Oyler and his career .175 BA? We're talking a guy who hit .135 as a full-time player for the '68 Tigers...
Not enough plate appearances?
Tabe >>
---------------------------------------------------
The author, Joe Posnanski, said in the article that
he took the top 538 hitters of all time, which is
a pretty elite group, even if you're last.
I don't know the total number of position players
who ever played the game, but I do know that
it's way more than 538.
I think the 6000 plate appearances is the key.
It's hard to amass 6000 trips to the plate when
you can't hit a curveball.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>The Bottom ten are:
10. Roy McMillan
9. Aurelio Rodriguez (but what an arm)
8. Alfredo Griffin
6. George McBride
5. Mickey Doolan
4. Mark Belanger
3. Everett Scott
2. Tim Foli
1. Ed Brinkman
What about Mario Mendoza????? I thought he was the barometer for bad players. >>
#1 Bill Bergen --- look it up.
<< <i>
I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people (cough fandango heh)
but really, everyone on the boards is fine by me!
Pujols is a stud.
John >>
Thanks, John.
Shane
<< <i>I respect you Frankhardy , you are a valuable member of the boards. I think the ones who take it too far are other people >>
I wholeheartedly agree. Shane takes it as a friendly jab no different than a conversation at a bar between a Red Sox fan and a Yankees fan. The other 2 or 3 Pujols mancrushers act like you just slapped his/her momma.
"#1 Bill Bergen --- look it up."
-----
I just did. He only had 3028 AB's, which would
not qualify him for Mr. Posnanski's list.
Bergen had a lifetime BA of .170, but he
did hit for a career high of .227 in 1903.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>The way that I see it is this:
Albert Pujols 2009 = Frank Thomas 1998
We could have had the same discussion about Thomas 10 years ago. Nine years is not long enough to rank someone as one of the 10 greatest hitters in baseball history. Lots of 'big' guys tend to start breaking down once they hit 30. >>
Thomas' career sloped downward like they all do, but he's still one of the best hitters of all time in the scope of his career.
Pujols isn't the typical "big guy," at least not on Thomas' level. He's not a small man, but his frame isn't as injury prone as someone like the Big Hurt. I think AP will continue to produce for some time.
This season may have been has last best, but his numbers will be strong for the next couple of seasons I'm sure.
<< <i>Ty Cobb is #9? >>
He was not a power hitter. This list is for all around hitter. Cobb was a good enough singles hitter to make up for lack of power, therefore, he "made it" to number 9. That is my take, anyway. That's why Rose, Gwynn, and Boggs are not in the top 10 or 20. If this were a "batting average" hitters list, Ty Cobb would be number one, and it wouldn't be close.
Shane
ps..shane, did you see Rich Klein has our/your avatar?
<< <i>Yaz was a great all-around hitter and the last to win the triple crown. I wonder where he ended up on the list.... >>
Nah, he wasn't a great all-around hitter. He had a 4-year run from 67-70 where he was a great all-around hitter. The rest of his career he was on the low-end of good. Great all-around hitters drive in more than 102 RBI more than twice* when they're hitting 3rd, 4th, 5th. They also don't have 14 (out of 23) seasons with less than 20 HR and only 3 above 30.
Tabe
p.s. How odd that Yaz ended up with three seasons of exactly 102 RBI. Kinda like Hank Aaron and his four seasons of exactly 44 HR.
When Ty Cobb played the game baseball used a much softer ball. In today's juiced up game even average players can hit 20+ homers a year.
Albert Pujols is on my list at number 29 at this point. If his has another 5-6 good years he "might" break the top fifteen. In no way does he deserve to be in the top ten of all-time at this point.
<< <i>He was not a power hitter. This list is for all around hitter. Cobb was a good enough singles hitter to make up for lack of power, therefore, he "made it" to number 9. That is my take, anyway. That's why Rose, Gwynn, and Boggs are not in the top 10 or 20. If this were a "batting average" hitters list, Ty Cobb would be number one, and it wouldn't be close.
When Ty Cobb played the game baseball used a much softer ball. In today's juiced up game even average players can hit 20+ homers a year.
Albert Pujols is on my list at number 29 at this point. If his has another 5-6 good years he "might" break the top fifteen. In no way does he deserve to be in the top ten of all-time at this point. >>
Come on... What a joke..
By the end of next year, Pujols should reach 400 homeruns(needs 34), and within another 5 years he should easily be at 500 homeruns or beyond. And even if Pujols slumps in batting average, slugging and on base % for the next 5 seasons, he still will be at or above .320 batting average, .400 on base %, and .600 slugging % . Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %? Right off the top of my head they are Ruth, Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx.
-----
Your namesake comes pretty close to those numbers, StanTheManMusial.
.331
475
.418
.559
~
Edited to fix a typo.
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>"Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %?"
-----
Your namesake come pretty close to those numbers, StanTheManMusial.
.331
475
.418
.559
~ >>
Yeah, Mr. Musial was pretty amazing. Stan Musial said if he knew homeruns were going to be the big deal that they are today, he might have tried to hit more of them. I tend to believe him, as Stan Musial's word is very credible to anyone that ever was around him. Not sure there has ever been a nicer guy, or more decent human being to ever play MLB.
"Not sure there has ever been a nicer guy, or more decent human being to ever play MLB.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
If and when Pujols reaches those number we can just start to talk about considering him on an ALL-TIME top ten list. Right now he's not even on the radar.
I noticed you use the word he SHOULD a lot.
<< <i>By the end of next year, Pujols should reach 400 homeruns(needs 34), and within another 5 years he should easily be at 500 homeruns or beyond. And even if Pujols slumps in batting average, slugging and on base % for the next 5 seasons, he still will be at or above .320 batting average, .400 on base %, and .600 slugging % . Tell me how many players in the history of the game that have had a career average of at least .320, 500 homeruns, .400 on base %, and a .600 slugging %? Right off the top of my head they are Ruth, Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx.
If and when Pujols reaches those number we can just start to talk about considering him on an ALL-TIME top ten list. Right now he's not even on the radar.
I noticed you use the word he SHOULD a lot. >>
I used "should" because even with average seasons of 27 homeruns a year, he gets to 500 in 5 seasons from now. Heck, hitting 35-40 a year makes it happen even faster. I know some of you want so badly to keep Pujols out of the top 10 conversation, but the stats don't lie. He is most certainly on the radar right now, and he will just continue to build some amazing stats. Let's not be ridiculous..
<< <i>No mention yet of the great Duke Snider. Where does he stack up in all of this? >>
You're kidding right???
Lifetime BA under .300, never winning a batting title nor a MVP Award....Duke was certainly HOF worthy, but let's no kid ourselves in the discussion of the top 10 hitters of all time
I have always heard talk describing Snider was Brooklyn's version of Mantle.
I dont think any active player should be on this list unless they are on their last legs and have a full careers worth of numbers to back this up.
Four years as one of the best hitters in baseball, plus another 12 at an All-Star level is a truly great career only a few have matched. Well below Musial, behind Robinson, right there with Gwynn, Kaline, Brett
The article was titled "The 10 greatest. . . " If we want to discuss the top 50, we could keep throwing names out 'til the end of time (not something I would necessarily be opposed to, though). Snider is closer to Will Clark than Mickey Mantle
"Molon Labe"
I concur. Especially Aaron.