Putting Pujols on that list, at this moment, is ludicrous. The author said using all available measures, Albert still came to the top 10. All-time lists take into account a player's body of work over a career. The first question the author should have asked is this: If his career ended now, would he still be on the list? No Many other hitters have a better career profile (ie, Mays) Pujols might be top 10 someday but now is premature.
I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer.
One of the things that makes me love baseball more than any other sport is that the individual nature of hitting makes that field more level than any other. Numbers posted by quarterbacks or running backs or receivers are so dependent upon teammates--Tom Brady isn't going to throw for fifty touchdowns for the Raiders. Obviously it becomes a bit more difficult when comparing eras--batting .400 used to be a fairly common occurence among the game's best, but nobody was hitting forty home runs a year before Babe Ruth, and now the top sluggers will typically reach at least that mark.
Anyhow, this prelude leads to my ultimate point, which is this--even though articles like this are fun, and inspires lively debate, I think it would be difficult to argue against this statement--the list of Greatest Hitters of All-Time should mirror the career rankings for On Base Plus Slugging.
And the list bears a strong resemblance--here's the link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/onbase_plus_slugging_career.shtml. I love Ty Cobb, and Ichiro is a Hall of Fame caliber hitter, but OBPS is undoubtedly the truest indicator of offensive productiveness. As a lover of baseball history and a HUGE Yankees fan, does it hurt my feelings to rank Todd Helton (apparently #27 on the author's list) ahead of Mantle and DiMaggio. Of course. But (unless you want to talk about the huge field and thin air of Denver) it's pretty tough to justify doing otherwise.
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I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer. >>
Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it?
I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer. >>
Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it? >>
I know there is a bitterness for Pujols on this board, but the guy is that dang good, and most deserving of where he is ranked. He has the 4th best slugging % in the history of MLB, and a career .330+ hitter. Pujols has accomplished something in his first 9 years that NO player has ever done, with his .300/30/100 or better every season. He is about to win his 3rd MVP in 9 seasons. Compare Pujols' slugging %, on base %, and career batting average to Mays, Aaron, and Rodriguez. While you're at it, why don't you see how many players in the history of the game had at least a career average of .325, .400 on base %, .600 slugging %. Pujols should also reach 400 homeruns in 2010(needs 34), so that takes things up another notch.
Interesting article. BUT, I only have one problem with it. You can NOT compare players from different era's. The game was played different in the 1920's than in the 1990's.
It is due to this that Hugh Duffy is not on the list. He only has the highest season batting average in history (1894, .440 average). 1888-1906 he had 106 Home Runs (1894 he had 18.)
<< <i>Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it? >>
Where do you read that its related to career achievements? Its top hitters of all time - Joe just put in a basement for PA's so that you don't get one or two year wonders in there. I think he is looking at the best hitters with sustained careers...and Pujols is sustained. I am not some Pujols bootlicker, but he is on track to be the greatest righthanded hitter ever. Poo-poo his 9 years of dominance if you want, but it I won't (and I don't think I'm alone). Others may have an individual year or two greater than Pujols, but his consistent level of top-notch hitting is amazing. What is he at...2 years with a slug percentage under .600 I think? Manny's SLG percentage for his career is around .560 I think, and Arod's too. His worst year or two is their career average....that's saying something.
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Bonds the # 3 hitter of all time? This guy's a moron. To leave Aaron AND Mays off a list of the top 10 hitters of all time is to prove that you never should have been allowed to have your list published in the first place. And where is Wagner? How about DiMaggio? I'd knock Bonds, Pujols and Mantle off and replace them with Aaron (man this guy just gets no respect), Mays and Wagner. DiMaggio would be # 11.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I know there is a bitterness for Pujols on this board, but the guy is that dang good, and most deserving of where he is ranked. He has the 4th best slugging % in the history of MLB, and a career .330+ hitter. Pujols has accomplished something in his first 9 years that NO player has ever done, with his .300/30/100 or better every season. He is about to win his 3rd MVP in 9 seasons. Compare Pujols' slugging %, on base %, and career batting average to Mays, Aaron, and Rodriguez. While you're at it, why don't you see how many players in the history of the game had at least a career average of .325, .400 on base %, .600 slugging %. Pujols should also reach 400 homeruns in 2010(needs 34), so that takes things up another notch. >>
What you (and Burke 23) are completely ignoring are a player's declining statistics as they advance in age. You can't simply take their prime hitting years and use it to evaluate an entire career, but that's what you're doing with Pujols.
To be considered one of the best ever, a player must demonstrate consistency over a period longer than 9 years. So if Pujols plays another 7 years and his numbers plummet or he fights injuries, he's not in the conversation of the best ever. Look at Griffey. He was maybe the best hitter of the 90's but his injuries and decreased level of play drops him completely out of the conversation. Back in 2000, most would feel about Griffey the way you feel about Pujols now. It seemed like a slam dunk, until he got injured and put together a string of mediocre seasons. Same thing can happen to your guy.
You can't just take Pujols' 9 years and compare it to Mays or Aarons' 20 years. Reasonable comparisons require that Pujols show more consistency over a longer period. Part of being an all-time great is showing consistent production beyond a player's prime.
Pujols has yet to have his old man years. ya know year after year of sub.300 average, diminished power.... so, figure he is 34 now. just around the corner! (just a little sarcasm ladies) he is a great hitter, but dont put him on any lists until he is retired and on his way to the HOF.
<< <i>What you (and Burke 23) are completely ignoring are a player's declining statistics as they advance in age. You can't simply take their prime hitting years and use it to evaluate an entire career, but that's what you're doing with Pujols.
To be considered one of the best ever, a player must demonstrate consistency over a period longer than 9 years. So if Pujols plays another 7 years and his numbers plummet or he fights injuries, he's not in the conversation of the best ever. Look at Griffey. He was maybe the best hitter of the 90's but his injuries and decreased level of play drops him completely out of the conversation. Back in 2000, most would feel about Griffey the way you feel about Pujols now. It seemed like a slam dunk, until he got injured and put together a string of mediocre seasons. Same thing can happen to your guy.
You can't just take Pujols' 9 years and compare it to Mays or Aarons' 20 years. Reasonable comparisons require that Pujols show more consistency over a longer period. Part of being an all-time great is showing consistent production beyond a player's prime. >>
I really don't think it matters - take the 9 best years of all those hitters - pretty sure Pujols still stands up. He hit for a better average and got on base more than Mays in May's top years, and Mays had a OPS+ over 1.000 5/9 of those years, Pujols 7/9. Not saying its a complete dominance, but Pujols may still have better years coming than his worst.
Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
What a massive load of horse $h1t!!! Pete Rose? Wade Boggs? Tony Gwynn? Where are they? Oh no they're not there because he had to make room for Vlad "I'll swing at anything thrown in my general direction" Guerrero, Todd "Lovin the thin Colorado air" Helton, and Edgar "never pitched around because Griffey Jr. and ARoid are waiting to make you pay" Martinez!!!!!
<< <i>Pujols has yet to have his old man years. ya know year after year of sub.300 average, diminished power.... so, figure he is 34 now. just around the corner! (just a little sarcasm ladies) he is a great hitter, but dont put him on any lists until he is retired and on his way to the HOF. >>
With today's "medicine" Pujols isn't going to hit any old man years for quite a while. The guy is incredible and so are his fans.
<< <i>What a massive load of horse $h1t!!! Pete Rose? Wade Boggs? Tony Gwynn? Where are they? Oh no they're not there because he had to make room for Vlad "I'll swing at anything thrown in my general direction" Guerrero, Todd "Lovin the thin Colorado air" Helton, and Edgar "never pitched around because Griffey Jr. and ARoid are waiting to make you pay" Martinez!!!!! >>
with Guerrero's .321 career avg. there's a good chance he hits it... I think it's hilarious when you see him golf swing a 2b or HR.
I really think we are all jaded on here against Pujols because of the Pujols man love club. The president of the club is busy in his bedroom, with this great new article to wet his appetite, but he will pop up later to defend his man. Seriously though, there is little doubt Pujols is one of the greatest hitters of all time. Is he top 10? None of us know. However, his career to this point would sure indicate he is in the top 10 in my opinion. Again, it's just the Pujols lunatics on these boards that give a bad taste to us. Enjoy your player without every other post being something Pujols related. It's just so over the top. He's great. We know that. Just remember though he is just a baseball player. He does not define who YOU are as a human being... oh wait, he does for you guys I forgot.
Cobb at #9.................he is rolling over in his grave in Royston, Ga right about now. Surely this list was meant to be released on April 1. He had 4-5 that would make my list.
Let's keep one thing in mind. This article is for ALL AROUND HITTER, not singles hitters. That's why Pete Rose, Rod Carew, and Wade Boggs are not on the list. See, OPS.
As for the argument of "old man years" not being included, I do see your point. His averages will eventually go down. I understand that. However, at the same time, his career numbers will only go up, therefore, offsetting the averages going down.
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good... PS HOW CAN HE HAVE BONDS ON THAT LIST? PSS OPS is the best measure of a player, that way it rightfully drops players like Carew down on the list
It is difficult to compare players from different eras. One thing to take note of is a players dominance over his peers. Babe Ruth is beyond a doubt # 1. Pujols if not in the top ten now is certainly well on his way and would have to have some poor performances to not make the list. Right now I think Pujols is a slightly better hitter than Aaron but then Hank is 75.
<< <i>I also agree with the top 2 then the list goes to s**t after that.
Calm down people. This list is nothing more than one d-bags opinion. >>
Joe P is no d-bag...he's actually a smart sportswriter who includes analytics for his observations and remarks versus his "gut" (ie this guy is good because he is "clutch")...and he is widely considered one of the top baseball writers around...if not the top.
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<< <i>Joe P is no d-bag...he's actually a smart sportswriter who includes analytics for his observations and remarks versus his "gut" (ie this guy is good because he is "clutch")...and he is widely considered one of the top baseball writers around...if not the top. >>
My point was that it is just one guy's opinion. No different than yours or mine.
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good...
Caramelcollector- You really think Ted Williams is better than Pujols? Really? Also, do you really think Pujols shouldn't be on that top 10 list yet? He's had 9 great years. Look at the statistics. The guy is amazing. It excites me just writing his name. PUJOLS. I hope you reconsider your thoughts. Pujols is way better than Ted Williams. Other than failing to show up for the playoffs this year Pujols is great. Come on man. Get with the program.
If Ted williams did not shoot down 47 planes for 4 years, he would be #1 on that list.....
Come on Caramel, you know Pujols could do that if called to duty. Could probably get it done in the off-season and be back in St. Louis to go to a couple of dinners to benefit needy children so his fan club could make googley eyes at him, sign a game used bat for his latest "milestone," almost get a triple crown, and then falter in the playoffs again. Pujols is the man! He's the prince! Teddy has nothing on Albert.
Clemente was pretty good. Maybe not as good as any of the guys on the top 10 but maybe the top 20? 4 batting titles in the 60s, .414 and MVP in the 71 series at 37 yrs old (old guy years). Hit safely in all 14 WS games he played in.
It's hard to make a list like that without being wrong. Just one guy's opinion.
I see 1 problem with Pujols being on the list, his career is not over yet.
I don't think you can put him on the list since he is still in his prime. Everyone else had their prime and their decline. With having said that when he retires he will probably be in the top 10 (unless he spends the next 10 years on the disable list, won't happen). No active player should be on the list. That doesn't just go for Pujols but for everyone.
I would have a very difficult time making out a top 10 or 20 greatest hitters or pitchers ever.
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good...
Caramelcollector- You really think Ted Williams is better than Pujols? Really? Also, do you really think Pujols shouldn't be on that top 10 list yet? He's had 9 great years. Look at the statistics. The guy is amazing. It excites me just writing his name. PUJOLS. I hope you reconsider your thoughts. Pujols is way better than Ted Williams. Other than failing to show up for the playoffs this year Pujols is great. Come on man. Get with the program. >>
Just to tell the WHOLE story; Pujols had only 1 at bat with a runner in scoring position during the 2009 NLDS, and he drove the run in. He had only 2 at bats total with a runner even on base. The rest of the time he was intentionally walked by the cowardly Dodgers anytime there was a runner on base or in scoring position in front of Pujols. The plan was to not allow Pujols to beat them, and by pitching around him, it worked out for the Dodgers. With that said, he was 1/1 with a runner in scoring position, and still hit .300 for the NLDS.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
I'm a firm believer that a player should retire prior to being placed on any all-time lists.
Unless it's a statistical list and they have a * showing said player as being active.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Just to tell the WHOLE story; Pujols had only 1 at bat with a runner in scoring position during the 2009 NLDS, and he drove the run in. He had only 2 at bats total with a runner even on base. The rest of the time he was intentionally walked by the cowardly Dodgers anytime there was a runner on base or in scoring position in front of Pujols. The plan was to not allow Pujols to beat them, and by pitching around him, it worked out for the Dodgers. With that said, he was 1/1 with a runner in scoring position, and still hit .300 for the NLDS.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
Good points STM. I can't dispute... but at least my "cowardly Dodgers" are still playing.
As far as you and the other main Pujols nut job on here I think you guys are just straight FANATICS. Good for you. I suppose I am jealous I don't have anything in my life, beyond my family, that I care that much about. Good for you. You guys are just really over the top but hey it's your obsession so your call how far over the top to be.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with admiring a good player.
The problem is that you slam us with it continually by posting a link every rare time a writer lists him as one of the best, you start threads with titles like "Is Pujols the greatest ever?" or "What do you think of this Pujols Bowman RC?" or "ALERT! Fake Pujols auto on ebay", and you give us a neverending supply of links to Pujols items online.
I counted no fewer than 60 threads with Pujols in the title, it seems that half of them started by either FrankHardy or Fandango.
And then you complain that we are just "Pujols haters".
I don't care how good the guy is, you have made everyone sick of him.
I completely understand that Rose Gwynn and Boggs are not top 10. The guy pointed out the top 30 in his article and I believe those 3 should be there over Edgar Martinez, Todd Helton, and Vlad Guerrero.
EchoCanyon
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Shane
The author said using all available measures, Albert still came to the top 10. All-time lists take into account a player's body of work over a career.
The first question the author should have asked is this: If his career ended now, would he still be on the list? No
Many other hitters have a better career profile (ie, Mays)
Pujols might be top 10 someday but now is premature.
I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer.
Shane
Anyhow, this prelude leads to my ultimate point, which is this--even though articles like this are fun, and inspires lively debate, I think it would be difficult to argue against this statement--the list of Greatest Hitters of All-Time should mirror the career rankings for On Base Plus Slugging.
And the list bears a strong resemblance--here's the link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/onbase_plus_slugging_career.shtml. I love Ty Cobb, and Ichiro is a Hall of Fame caliber hitter, but OBPS is undoubtedly the truest indicator of offensive productiveness. As a lover of baseball history and a HUGE Yankees fan, does it hurt my feelings to rank Todd Helton (apparently #27 on the author's list) ahead of Mantle and DiMaggio. Of course. But (unless you want to talk about the huge field and thin air of Denver) it's pretty tough to justify doing otherwise.
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<< <i>I knew that was coming.
I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer. >>
Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it?
<< <i>
<< <i>I knew that was coming.
I guess Sandy Koufax shouldn't be on a list of pitchers since his "body of work" doesn't match up to some of other greats.
I would think a 9 year track record of Albert Pujols' consistency is plenty. Nobody in the history of baseball (I'll say it again), nobody in the history of baseball has had the 9 year start to his career that he has. It is almost ridiculous to say "start" to a career after 9 years, but the fact is that his numbers have not taken a year off. The Hall of Fame has a requirement of 10 years. If Albert Pujols hits like Ed Brinkman next year (his 10th) and then retires, he is still a Hall of Famer. >>
Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it? >>
I know there is a bitterness for Pujols on this board, but the guy is that dang good, and most deserving of where he is ranked. He has the 4th best slugging % in the history of MLB, and a career .330+ hitter. Pujols has accomplished something in his first 9 years that NO player has ever done, with his .300/30/100 or better every season. He is about to win his 3rd MVP in 9 seasons. Compare Pujols' slugging %, on base %, and career batting average to Mays, Aaron, and Rodriguez. While you're at it, why don't you see how many players in the history of the game had at least a career average of .325, .400 on base %, .600 slugging %. Pujols should also reach 400 homeruns in 2010(needs 34), so that takes things up another notch.
It is due to this that Hugh Duffy is not on the list. He only has the highest season batting average in history (1894, .440 average). 1888-1906 he had 106 Home Runs (1894 he had 18.)
Dave
<< <i>Your comparison to Koufax is only somewhat accurate. I wouldn't put Koufax in the top 10 of all-time pitchers, either, but he would top my list of most dominating pitchers over a relatively short period. And if that were the subject of the article for hitters, I might put Pujols top 10. But it's not - it is a list of top 10 hitters of all time and to put Pujols ahead of Mays and Aaron for career achievements is moronic.
It would be relatively easy to find 30 better CAREER hitters than Pujols. Not only that, but if we're evaluating current players, I'd put A-Rod's career ahead of Pujols. And no, a 9-year track record is not enough for an ALL-TIME LIST. He would be a borderline second or third-ballot Hall of Famer after next year but that does not put him in the top 10 of all time, does it? >>
Where do you read that its related to career achievements? Its top hitters of all time - Joe just put in a basement for PA's so that you don't get one or two year wonders in there. I think he is looking at the best hitters with sustained careers...and Pujols is sustained. I am not some Pujols bootlicker, but he is on track to be the greatest righthanded hitter ever. Poo-poo his 9 years of dominance if you want, but it I won't (and I don't think I'm alone). Others may have an individual year or two greater than Pujols, but his consistent level of top-notch hitting is amazing. What is he at...2 years with a slug percentage under .600 I think? Manny's SLG percentage for his career is around .560 I think, and Arod's too. His worst year or two is their career average....that's saying something.
<< <i>I know there is a bitterness for Pujols on this board, but the guy is that dang good, and most deserving of where he is ranked. He has the 4th best slugging % in the history of MLB, and a career .330+ hitter. Pujols has accomplished something in his first 9 years that NO player has ever done, with his .300/30/100 or better every season. He is about to win his 3rd MVP in 9 seasons. Compare Pujols' slugging %, on base %, and career batting average to Mays, Aaron, and Rodriguez. While you're at it, why don't you see how many players in the history of the game had at least a career average of .325, .400 on base %, .600 slugging %. Pujols should also reach 400 homeruns in 2010(needs 34), so that takes things up another notch. >>
What you (and Burke 23) are completely ignoring are a player's declining statistics as they advance in age. You can't simply take their prime hitting years and use it to evaluate an entire career, but that's what you're doing with Pujols.
To be considered one of the best ever, a player must demonstrate consistency over a period longer than 9 years. So if Pujols plays another 7 years and his numbers plummet or he fights injuries, he's not in the conversation of the best ever. Look at Griffey. He was maybe the best hitter of the 90's but his injuries and decreased level of play drops him completely out of the conversation. Back in 2000, most would feel about Griffey the way you feel about Pujols now. It seemed like a slam dunk, until he got injured and put together a string of mediocre seasons. Same thing can happen to your guy.
You can't just take Pujols' 9 years and compare it to Mays or Aarons' 20 years. Reasonable comparisons require that Pujols show more consistency over a longer period. Part of being an all-time great is showing consistent production beyond a player's prime.
<< <i>What you (and Burke 23) are completely ignoring are a player's declining statistics as they advance in age. You can't simply take their prime hitting years and use it to evaluate an entire career, but that's what you're doing with Pujols.
To be considered one of the best ever, a player must demonstrate consistency over a period longer than 9 years. So if Pujols plays another 7 years and his numbers plummet or he fights injuries, he's not in the conversation of the best ever. Look at Griffey. He was maybe the best hitter of the 90's but his injuries and decreased level of play drops him completely out of the conversation. Back in 2000, most would feel about Griffey the way you feel about Pujols now. It seemed like a slam dunk, until he got injured and put together a string of mediocre seasons. Same thing can happen to your guy.
You can't just take Pujols' 9 years and compare it to Mays or Aarons' 20 years. Reasonable comparisons require that Pujols show more consistency over a longer period. Part of being an all-time great is showing consistent production beyond a player's prime. >>
I really don't think it matters - take the 9 best years of all those hitters - pretty sure Pujols still stands up. He hit for a better average and got on base more than Mays in May's top years, and Mays had a OPS+ over 1.000 5/9 of those years, Pujols 7/9. Not saying its a complete dominance, but Pujols may still have better years coming than his worst.
<< <i>Pujols has yet to have his old man years. ya know year after year of sub.300 average, diminished power.... so, figure he is 34 now. just around the corner! (just a little sarcasm ladies) he is a great hitter, but dont put him on any lists until he is retired and on his way to the HOF. >>
With today's "medicine" Pujols isn't going to hit any old man years for quite a while. The guy is incredible and so are his fans.
<< <i>What a massive load of horse $h1t!!! Pete Rose? Wade Boggs? Tony Gwynn? Where are they? Oh no they're not there because he had to make room for Vlad "I'll swing at anything thrown in my general direction" Guerrero, Todd "Lovin the thin Colorado air" Helton, and Edgar "never pitched around because Griffey Jr. and ARoid are waiting to make you pay" Martinez!!!!! >>
with Guerrero's .321 career avg. there's a good chance he hits it... I think it's hilarious when you see him golf swing a 2b or HR.
As for the argument of "old man years" not being included, I do see your point. His averages will eventually go down. I understand that. However, at the same time, his career numbers will only go up, therefore, offsetting the averages going down.
Shane
ted williams is super great...
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good...
PS HOW CAN HE HAVE BONDS ON THAT LIST?
PSS OPS is the best measure of a player, that way it rightfully drops players like Carew down on the list
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Calm down people. This list is nothing more than one d-bags opinion.
<< <i>I also agree with the top 2 then the list goes to s**t after that.
Calm down people. This list is nothing more than one d-bags opinion. >>
Joe P is no d-bag...he's actually a smart sportswriter who includes analytics for his observations and remarks versus his "gut" (ie this guy is good because he is "clutch")...and he is widely considered one of the top baseball writers around...if not the top.
<< <i>Joe P is no d-bag...he's actually a smart sportswriter who includes analytics for his observations and remarks versus his "gut" (ie this guy is good because he is "clutch")...and he is widely considered one of the top baseball writers around...if not the top.
>>
My point was that it is just one guy's opinion. No different than yours or mine.
<< <i>I also agree with the top 2 then the list goes to s**t after that.
Calm down people. This list is nothing more than one d-bags opinion. >>
just like everyone of your posts
<< <i>just like everyone of your posts >>
Please direct me to one meaningful post youhave made.
BTW, how many times are you going to get banned?
are a FLAME THROWING WISARSE TROUBLE MAKER
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good...
Caramelcollector- You really think Ted Williams is better than Pujols? Really? Also, do you really think Pujols shouldn't be on that top 10 list yet? He's had 9 great years. Look at the statistics. The guy is amazing. It excites me just writing his name. PUJOLS. I hope you reconsider your thoughts. Pujols is way better than Ted Williams. Other than failing to show up for the playoffs this year Pujols is great. Come on man. Get with the program.
<< <i>Ty Cobb was the best pure hitter that ever lived. His lifetime average of .367 will NEVER be broken. >>
1. Cobb's lifetime average is .366. It was corrected several years ago.
2. Mays is not a top ten all time hitter, and neither is DiMaggio.
3. Rose, Boggs, and Gwynn can not even sniff the top ten.
<< <i>
<< <i>I also agree with the top 2 then the list goes to s**t after that.
Calm down people. This list is nothing more than one d-bags opinion. >>
just like everyone of your posts >>
I'm glad others see it too..
<< <i>i dont bash people or things..i support my sox, collect some old cards and such, you on the other hand
are a FLAME THROWING WISARSE TROUBLE MAKER >>
Thanks!
You didn't answer my question regarding how many times you are going to get banned.
Come on Caramel, you know Pujols could do that if called to duty. Could probably get it done in the off-season and be back in St. Louis to go to a couple of dinners to benefit needy children so his fan club could make googley eyes at him, sign a game used bat for his latest "milestone," almost get a triple crown, and then falter in the playoffs again. Pujols is the man! He's the prince! Teddy has nothing on Albert.
<< <i>What a massive load of horse $h1t!!! Pete Rose? Wade Boggs? Tony Gwynn? Where are they? >>
To be top 10 all-time, you either:
A) Gotta hit a lot of HRs
or
or
C) Both (Hornsby)
Pete, Boggs & Gwynn were great. But none of them were top 10 all-time, sorry.
Tabe
It's hard to make a list like that without being wrong. Just one guy's opinion.
I don't think you can put him on the list since he is still in his prime. Everyone else had their prime and their decline. With having said that when he retires he will probably be in the top 10 (unless he spends the next 10 years on the disable list, won't happen). No active player should be on the list. That doesn't just go for Pujols but for everyone.
I would have a very difficult time making out a top 10 or 20 greatest hitters or pitchers ever.
Dave
<< <i>ted williams is super great...
Pujols need a few more years (maybe 3 more) to be on the list for good...
Caramelcollector- You really think Ted Williams is better than Pujols? Really? Also, do you really think Pujols shouldn't be on that top 10 list yet? He's had 9 great years. Look at the statistics. The guy is amazing. It excites me just writing his name. PUJOLS. I hope you reconsider your thoughts. Pujols is way better than Ted Williams. Other than failing to show up for the playoffs this year Pujols is great. Come on man. Get with the program. >>
Just to tell the WHOLE story; Pujols had only 1 at bat with a runner in scoring position during the 2009 NLDS, and he drove the run in. He had only 2 at bats total with a runner even on base. The rest of the time he was intentionally walked by the cowardly Dodgers anytime there was a runner on base or in scoring position in front of Pujols. The plan was to not allow Pujols to beat them, and by pitching around him, it worked out for the Dodgers. With that said, he was 1/1 with a runner in scoring position, and still hit .300 for the NLDS.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
Unless it's a statistical list and they have a * showing said player as being active.
One of these days the people who have a dislike/sarcasm towards Pujols are going to have to open their eyes to reality, cease with the sarcasm and bitterness, and realize that Pujols is one of the greatest hitters we will ever see, and will go down as one of the greats of all time. It's not just my feelings, it's the feelings of his fellow players in MLB, MLB HOF'ers, and respected baseball experts like Peter Gammons, Buster Onley, ect..
Yeah, I'm a fan of the way Pujols plays the game, and for how he lives his life off of the field. That's it. There is nothing wrong with that. That does not make someone a nut like many of you Pujols haters like to portray us as. Don't lump everyone into a category, just because some of you can't get over your personal bitterness for people who like to talk about their favorite player on here. The obsession to hate those board members seems far worse and nutty, than the Pujols fans enjoyment of their favorite player does.
Good points STM. I can't dispute... but at least my "cowardly Dodgers" are still playing.
As far as you and the other main Pujols nut job on here I think you guys are just straight FANATICS. Good for you. I suppose I am jealous I don't have anything in my life, beyond my family, that I care that much about. Good for you. You guys are just really over the top but hey it's your obsession so your call how far over the top to be.
The problem is that you slam us with it continually by posting a link every rare time a writer lists him as one of the best, you start threads with titles like "Is Pujols the greatest ever?" or "What do you think of this Pujols Bowman RC?" or "ALERT! Fake Pujols auto on ebay", and you give us a neverending supply of links to Pujols items online.
I counted no fewer than 60 threads with Pujols in the title, it seems that half of them started by either FrankHardy or Fandango.
And then you complain that we are just "Pujols haters".
I don't care how good the guy is, you have made everyone sick of him.