<< <i>So congrats on breaking news that is 5 or 6 years old. >>
how is 5 or 6 years old when it happend last weekend. 4 major companies turned the cards down.
again another person who comes on my post an always have negative things to say. i wish you had something better to do with your life.
Buying or trading for these signed Jeter rc's: 1992 GCL, 93 Stadium Club, 93 Greensboro,, 93 South Atlantic League, 93 Topps Marlins & Rockies,, 94 Classic Tampa, 94 Procards Tampa, 94 Florida State League & 95 Columbus Clippers.
things are starting to make more sense as the ebay names associated with these fake BC autos (not counterfeit)are starting to overlap with the Fleer Legacy Auto's i have been tracking for years.....
Bad miss by SGC...
and for the record, there are only two 5/500's......and from what i understand, that was done on Pujols request because it was his number....
<< <i>and for the record, there are only two 5/500's......and from what i understand, that was done on Pujols request because it was his number.... >>
You are kidding right? >>
That is messed up if true. It is like printing a second 1 of 1 for the player.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
So is the story here that someone figured out how to make a counterfeit Chrome Pujols or is the story that someone forged a sig and/or number on the back of the card? If the story here is about the sig and/or number on the back this is common knowledge. As far as there being two cards with the #5 serial number is there any solid evidence to back up the claim that two cards were produced at his request?
<< <i>I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.
I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.
Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.
I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.
I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.
Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.
This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.
Best regards! >>
Quoted, just in case there's an edit. Nothing more, nothing les..
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>The card is 100% not counterfeit so your source is wrong.... Secondly, everyone seems to have some wrong information that Kevin Burge had something to do with these cards. These cards were prucahsed from a dealer in NJ... >>
Are you referring to stanthemans picture? Because it clearly looks altered, and in the thread link a SGC rep said Burge himself was trying to get them through authentication, just curious why you would say the card is legit and Burge had nothing to do with it.
Personally, I appreciate the thread! Your clearly concerned with cleaning up the hobby, rather than allowing the Kevin Burge's of the world to continue to sell fake auto'd/buy backs to unsuspecting collectors.
I could care less if the card was rejected due to the altering the ink on the auto, or if somehow these criminals have figured out a way to reproduce a refractor card, before the thread I had no idea that 2001 Pujols Bowman Chrome were suspect to forgery and/or counterfeiting. Last time I checked, thats what these boards are about, sharing information. It would be nice to read a thread without seeing the O/P get lynched for either sharing information or having an opinion!
I could care less if the card was rejected due to the altering the ink on the auto, or if somehow these criminals have figured out a way to reproduce a refractor card, before the thread I had no idea that 2001 Pujols Bowman Chrome were suspect to forgery and/or counterfeiting. Last time I checked, thats what these boards are about, sharing information. It would be nice to read a thread without seeing the O/P get lynched for either sharing information or having an opinion!
Agreed, but the idea that someone could be out there with a refractor machine would throw waves in the hobby a lot stronger than the idea that the auto and number on one specific card is being faked. If this "source" is correct, then anybody building 93 refractor sets, Kobe collectors, Jordan collectors, Vlad collectors, Lebron collectors, and buyers of any refractor that brings big money would want to know about it. Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless.
i think the Op is getting beat up over summantics.....
Counterfeit has different meanings to different people but it is clear it means a card is not real (one way or another)....if the auto was faked (redone) then the card is not real (some may call it counterfeit)...so you see...the information is good, just the wording may be wrong...
It's not just one particular 3rd party grader getting it wrong, they ALL have dropped the ball and slabbed copies that have had the numbering or autograph altered. Some have even slabbed copies that have had both done, as you can clearly see from this SGC example.
>>
the watermark on those scans sounds very familiar, he used to claim he worked for beckett, until beckett told him to stop so he changed his id from xyankee61x to apm-cards, and has been know to sell many fakes, patches, fake jersey numbering, fake auto cards from the fleer bankrupcy that were never made,etc, usually those auctions get the scan removed right after the auction ends,
Looking for in PSA graded 1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+ 2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+ 3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos 1992 Courtside Flashback Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton) 2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology 2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos) Press Pass Legends
I also agree with MBM. That's why I usually don't post about things like this. It's usually followed by the same remarks.....and god help you if you make a spelling error.
<< <i>I also agree with MBM. That's why I usually don't post about things like this. It's usually followed by the same remarks.....and god help you if you make a spelling error. >>
exactly what i have been trying to say for a while now....this board caters to jokers and wisecrackers and the people who provide good information are chased away with hate....
cue the thread " where have all the good posters gone"
those haters know who they are.................................................................
As said before, it's great that the OP is warning people about Pujols chrome RCs, but the information he is giving is wrong. Clearly there are some past run-ins between the OP and others that have been renewed in this thread, but that shouldn't excuse the fact that potentially incorrect information might mislead people. Personally, if someone has the ability to reproduce refractors then I am very interested, as are hundreds of other collectors that actively buy refractors. But clearly the OP has most likely either been mislead by his source or he is misinterpreting the information he was given.
My definition of "counterfeit" is creating a new copy of something, not altering an existing copy. If I go to the store, buy a pack of cards and forge a sig on one of the cards it does not make the card a counterfeit. I think this is a situation of different people using terms different ways. I've read similar accounts to this on different boards/blogs and do not get the feeling they saying some guy created the refractor then forged the sig and serial. The way I read this entry someone actually created a copy of the card in their basement. Obviously this is a big deal to a lot of people. I appreciate anyone warning others, but there needs to be some clarification.
"Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless."
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
<< <i>"Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless."
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
Some folks may have never heard of it before.
Steve >>
I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering.
Buying or trading for these signed Jeter rc's: 1992 GCL, 93 Stadium Club, 93 Greensboro,, 93 South Atlantic League, 93 Topps Marlins & Rockies,, 94 Classic Tampa, 94 Procards Tampa, 94 Florida State League & 95 Columbus Clippers.
<< <i>"Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless."
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
Some folks may have never heard of it before.
Steve >>
I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering. >>
Yet, there has been an altered one show up in an SGC holder, and was sold on Ebay, that has been shown in this thread.... Interesting..
First off, I have no idea what a refractor even is, but after reading this thread, hasn't this argument gone full circle three times now? I think it is time to let it die peacefully....
<< <i>i think the Op is getting beat up over summantics.....
Counterfeit has different meanings to different people but it is clear it means a card is not real (one way or another)....if the auto was faked (redone) then the card is not real (some may call it counterfeit)...so you see...the information is good, just the wording may be wrong...
doesnt mean its bad info......or old info....
i agree with MBM...layoff people >>
Counterfeit does not have different meanings when dealing with cards. Someone may misuse the word, but that doesn't make it inherit a new meaning.
As Steve noted his use of "it ain't open to debate" while providing incorrect information and making an accusation with no reference or evidence is going to get a response....as it should. We are all responsive for our actions and wording.
It is admiral to point out fraud in sport cards to fellow collectors, it is irresponsible to provide incorrect information and basically say that is the final word.
Clear Skies, Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering. >>
He only stated that they rejected a card due to sig AND/OR numbering.
Nothing about counterfeiting chrome cards..
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
What would be the name people would use for cards that are suppose to be autographed, but were never signed, and then somehow backdoored and now with a faked auto. I would call them fake, but I could see others calling them counterfeit. Like a bunch of fake 1998 Topps Kobe autos exist like this.
Looking for in PSA graded 1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+ 2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+ 3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos 1992 Courtside Flashback Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton) 2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology 2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos) Press Pass Legends
<< <i>What would be the name people would use for cards that are suppose to be autographed, but were never signed, and then somehow backdoored and now with a faked auto. I would call them fake, but I could see others calling them counterfeit. Like a bunch of fake 1998 Topps Kobe autos exist like this. >>
I would consider them real cards, with forged signatures on them if that's the case. Personally, I would not call them counterfeits, because to me counterfeit means everything about it is fake, or reproduced. Like a counterfeit dollar.
If a person has an authentic Cal Ripken, Jr., minor league card with a bogus sig I will not label the card a counterfeit. It's an authentic card with a fake sig.
If you have a counterfeit card with a legit sig should a person expect real card money?
There's some 2001 Pujols Chromes with altered sigs and this has been known for a while?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
IMO still not counterfeit even if it makes it have 1000 copies of a card that should have 500.
Still altered or forged. But I can agree some could say they are counterfeits. If a BP employee backdoored some 20.00 bills
from the mint (actually bureau of engraving and printing) would you call those 20.00's counterfeit?
Steve >>
we could also call them "not certified" if they have legit autos. I have some Topps Fan Favorites autos missing the hologram, I call them not certified, they come from the players sending them as ttm. i collected them since they are usually singed with different color ink
Looking for in PSA graded 1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+ 2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+ 3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos 1992 Courtside Flashback Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton) 2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology 2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos) Press Pass Legends
This topic is nothing new, but I find it hard to believe someone would be crazy enough to wipe an auto off of a 4 figure card and sign a cleaner signature. I'm sure the people that do it know what they are doing, but it just seems really risky. I wonder if they are indeed actual complete cards that are being redone or if they are the leftovers that weren't redeemed (auto was a Topps redemption if I'm not mistaken). What's to say that a bunch of uncut sheets didn't miraculously make their way out of the Topps warehouses and suddenly become these cards everyone is concerned about. There is no knowledge as to how many Pujols cards were actually redeemed compared to how many were printed. The key is that hologram they put on the back of the card. They have serial numbers on them. Topps has to have a list of which serial number hologram belongs with which card.
Think about it--how many fake buybacks are there out there? Those fake buyback cards were normal cards that were altered with a wiped off sticker and peeled off hologram.
There is a long running history of the '93 Finest refractors and how certain cards are in much more supply than others. There was also an Etopps issue just a few months ago where a guy sold 5 '03 Mike Comries, a card that didn't exist on Etopps, and sold for like $140 each on Ebay. All 5 were encapsulated in Topps holders with the holograms and Topps stickers. After Etopps did some research, it was determined the cards came from uncut sheets and were created by someone--they did not leave the warehouse like that. They were able to verify the hologram serial numbers belonged to '02 Comries.
What's to say that a bunch of uncut sheets didn't miraculously make their way out of the Topps warehouses and suddenly become these cards everyone is concerned about.
I think this is a reasonably likely scenario. It definitely wouldn't be the first time refractors were backdoored. As a 90s collector, I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that 93 baseball refractors, 94 Jordan refractors, 95 basketball bordered refractors, 95 bowman's best red refractors and who knows what else somehow fell off the warehouse loading dock.
Maybe something good will come of all this, and that is dropping the ridiculous price of this card to a reasonable level. If you want a better pujols investment, buy his Utimate Coll. RC - #'d to 250 and sells for less than 1/10 of the chrome. Mark it down - the Pujols chrome is a $1000 card (or lower) 10 years from now.
Comments
<< <i>So congrats on breaking news that is 5 or 6 years old. >>
how is 5 or 6 years old when it happend last weekend. 4 major companies turned the cards down.
again another person who comes on my post an always have negative things to say. i wish you had something better to do with your life.
1992 GCL, 93 Stadium Club, 93 Greensboro,, 93 South Atlantic League, 93 Topps Marlins & Rockies,, 94 Classic Tampa, 94 Procards Tampa, 94 Florida State League & 95 Columbus Clippers.
great informative thread
thanks for posting.....
things are starting to make more sense as the ebay names associated with these fake BC autos (not counterfeit)are starting to overlap with the Fleer Legacy Auto's i have been tracking for years.....
Bad miss by SGC...
and for the record, there are only two 5/500's......and from what i understand, that was done on Pujols request because it was his number....
(the bogus autos on this card)
The specific situation that you are talking about happened recently.
I think I have read about this card a few times in the past.
I could be wrong.
In any event thanks for bringing it to the forums attention.
Steve
<< <i>and for the record, there are only two 5/500's......and from what i understand, that was done on Pujols request because it was his number.... >>
You are kidding right?
<< <i>
<< <i>and for the record, there are only two 5/500's......and from what i understand, that was done on Pujols request because it was his number.... >>
You are kidding right? >>
That is messed up if true. It is like printing a second 1 of 1 for the player.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>What were the Manning's graded?
Also, regarding the Pujols card...damn what the hell has this industry come to?!?! >>
Both cards were graded BGS 8 but the autographs graded a 9 and 6. A lot of coin for a sig.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.
I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.
Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.
I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.
I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.
Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.
This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.
Best regards! >>
Quoted, just in case there's an edit. Nothing more, nothing les..
until then...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>The card is 100% not counterfeit so your source is wrong.... Secondly, everyone seems to have some wrong information that Kevin Burge had something to do with these cards. These cards were prucahsed from a dealer in NJ... >>
Are you referring to stanthemans picture? Because it clearly looks altered, and in the thread link a SGC rep said Burge himself was trying to get them through authentication, just curious why you would say the card is legit and Burge had nothing to do with it.
Personally, I appreciate the thread! Your clearly concerned with cleaning up the hobby, rather than allowing the Kevin Burge's of the world to continue to sell fake auto'd/buy backs to unsuspecting collectors.
I could care less if the card was rejected due to the altering the ink on the auto, or if somehow these criminals have figured out a way to reproduce a refractor card, before the thread I had no idea that 2001 Pujols Bowman Chrome were suspect to forgery and/or counterfeiting. Last time I checked, thats what these boards are about, sharing information. It would be nice to read a thread without seeing the O/P get lynched for either sharing information or having an opinion!
Agreed, but the idea that someone could be out there with a refractor machine would throw waves in the hobby a lot stronger than the idea that the auto and number on one specific card is being faked. If this "source" is correct, then anybody building 93 refractor sets, Kobe collectors, Jordan collectors, Vlad collectors, Lebron collectors, and buyers of any refractor that brings big money would want to know about it. Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless.
Counterfeit has different meanings to different people but it is clear it means a card is not real (one way or another)....if the auto was faked (redone) then the card is not real (some may call it counterfeit)...so you see...the information is good, just the wording may be wrong...
doesnt mean its bad info......or old info....
i agree with MBM...layoff people
<< <i>MinorLeagueSource,
I was talking about this issue back in August over here:
Forgery
It's not just one particular 3rd party grader getting it wrong, they ALL have dropped the ball and slabbed copies that have had the numbering or autograph altered. Some have even slabbed copies that have had both done, as you can clearly see from this SGC example.
the watermark on those scans sounds very familiar, he used to claim he worked for beckett, until beckett told him to stop so he changed his id from xyankee61x to apm-cards, and has been know to sell many fakes, patches, fake jersey numbering, fake auto cards from the fleer bankrupcy that were never made,etc, usually those auctions get the scan removed right after the auction ends,
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
<< <i>I also agree with MBM. That's why I usually don't post about things like this. It's usually followed by the same remarks.....and god help you if you make a spelling error. >>
exactly what i have been trying to say for a while now....this board caters to jokers and wisecrackers and the people who provide good information are chased away with hate....
cue the thread " where have all the good posters gone"
those haters know who they are.................................................................
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
Some folks may have never heard of it before.
Steve
<< <i>"Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless."
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
Some folks may have never heard of it before.
Steve >>
I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering.
1992 GCL, 93 Stadium Club, 93 Greensboro,, 93 South Atlantic League, 93 Topps Marlins & Rockies,, 94 Classic Tampa, 94 Procards Tampa, 94 Florida State League & 95 Columbus Clippers.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>I believe the cards are authentic, but the autos have been removed and resigned for better eye appeal and a higher autograph grade. >>
I think so too. However, as pointed out by so many others, it just makes sense to make 100% sure what is being claimed.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>
<< <i>"Saying "the cards are being counterfeited because Mr. X told me so" without any real proof or backing (besides a confidential informant that may or may not exist) is pretty careless."
Add in the 'it ain't open to debate" And I can see why some reacted the way they did.
With that said I agree it is great that he informed the board, regardless if it has been talked about b4.
Some folks may have never heard of it before.
Steve >>
I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering. >>
Yet, there has been an altered one show up in an SGC holder, and was sold on Ebay, that has been shown in this thread.... Interesting..
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>i think the Op is getting beat up over summantics.....
Counterfeit has different meanings to different people but it is clear it means a card is not real (one way or another)....if the auto was faked (redone) then the card is not real (some may call it counterfeit)...so you see...the information is good, just the wording may be wrong...
doesnt mean its bad info......or old info....
i agree with MBM...layoff people >>
Counterfeit does not have different meanings when dealing with cards. Someone may misuse the word, but that doesn't make it inherit a new meaning.
As Steve noted his use of "it ain't open to debate" while providing incorrect information and making an accusation with no reference or evidence is going to get a response....as it should. We are all responsive for our actions and wording.
It is admiral to point out fraud in sport cards to fellow collectors, it is irresponsible to provide incorrect information and basically say that is the final word.
Clear Skies,
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I provided proof. A Sgc employee has stated that they refused the cards because of the signature & numbering. >>
He only stated that they rejected a card due to sig AND/OR numbering.
Nothing about counterfeiting chrome cards..
The card is not be reprinted, existing cards are being altered and or forged.
Steve
I would call them fake, but I could see others calling them counterfeit.
Like a bunch of fake 1998 Topps Kobe autos exist like this.
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
IMO still not counterfeit even if it makes it have 1000 copies of a card that should have 500.
Still altered or forged. But I can agree some could say they are counterfeits. If a BP employee backdoored some 20.00 bills
from the mint (actually bureau of engraving and printing) would you call those 20.00's counterfeit?
Steve
<< <i>What would be the name people would use for cards that are suppose to be autographed, but were never signed, and then somehow backdoored and now with a faked auto.
I would call them fake, but I could see others calling them counterfeit.
Like a bunch of fake 1998 Topps Kobe autos exist like this. >>
I would consider them real cards, with forged signatures on them if that's the case. Personally, I would not call them counterfeits, because to me counterfeit means everything about it is fake, or reproduced. Like a counterfeit dollar.
Steve
If you have a counterfeit card with a legit sig should a person expect real card money?
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Steve
<< <i>I can't believe it Me and STTM agree!
Steve >>
<< <i>If the card is stamped 'counterfeit' Like the bogus 1963 Rose, yeah I'd sell it for real money.
Steve >>
But would you expect it to sell for the same as an authentic '63?
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
I'd expect real money for the auto and whatever those bogus Rose rookies sells for.
Steve
There's some 2001 Pujols Chromes with altered sigs and this has been known for a while?
lol
I dunno, I think I've known for at least 2 years, maybe 3.
If not this specific card some other shiny thing with Pujols on it.
Steve
<< <i>Mex funny you mention that scenario.
IMO still not counterfeit even if it makes it have 1000 copies of a card that should have 500.
Still altered or forged. But I can agree some could say they are counterfeits. If a BP employee backdoored some 20.00 bills
from the mint (actually bureau of engraving and printing) would you call those 20.00's counterfeit?
Steve >>
we could also call them "not certified" if they have legit autos.
I have some Topps Fan Favorites autos missing the hologram, I call them not certified, they come from the players sending them as ttm.
i collected them since they are usually singed with different color ink
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
If one can't tell the difference then........
Steve
the card has a COUNTERFEIT autograph
the card has a COUNTERFEIT serial number
the card has BEEN ALTERED
the card is FAKE...
now everyone is happy (except the guy who bought the SGC slabbed fake)
Think about it--how many fake buybacks are there out there? Those fake buyback cards were normal cards that were altered with a wiped off sticker and peeled off hologram.
There is a long running history of the '93 Finest refractors and how certain cards are in much more supply than others. There was also an Etopps issue just a few months ago where a guy sold 5 '03 Mike Comries, a card that didn't exist on Etopps, and sold for like $140 each on Ebay. All 5 were encapsulated in Topps holders with the holograms and Topps stickers. After Etopps did some research, it was determined the cards came from uncut sheets and were created by someone--they did not leave the warehouse like that. They were able to verify the hologram serial numbers belonged to '02 Comries.
I think this is a reasonably likely scenario. It definitely wouldn't be the first time refractors were backdoored. As a 90s collector, I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that 93 baseball refractors, 94 Jordan refractors, 95 basketball bordered refractors, 95 bowman's best red refractors and who knows what else somehow fell off the warehouse loading dock.
If you want a better pujols investment, buy his Utimate Coll. RC - #'d to 250 and sells for less than 1/10 of the chrome.
Mark it down - the Pujols chrome is a $1000 card (or lower) 10 years from now.