MUST READ Huge News about the 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols Auto Rc MUST READ

MinorLeagueSource · September 30, 2009 1:40PM

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

jswieton · September 30, 2009 1:46PM

This seems like a lot of hearsay to me. Where did you get this info?

Ironmanfan · September 30, 2009 1:51PM

slabed a couple of them in the pass?

ripkenintheminors · September 30, 2009 1:53PM

This card has certainly seen its share of controversy.

csmtampa · September 30, 2009 1:55PM

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

Lets see if they start popping up on ebay in the next couple of weeks under their 3 or so user names they sell the same junk under.

Allen · September 30, 2009 2:05PM

The Kobe Chrome rookie was counterfeited 8-9 years ago so given the technology advances I am sure they COULD make some good counterfeits of this card. I also take everything this guy says with a boulder of salt. The counterfeit Topps rookie photo shoots have exploded on ebay. Especially the 07 Petersons and doubles and quads. The 2001 Reggie Wayne has also been heavily counterfeited and about 10 a day are selling on ebay.

Morgoth · September 30, 2009 2:09PM

I don't understand how they can get away with the numbering as only so many were made. Eventually wont they hit a number that a collector will recognize as their own?

I wonder if they have been tracking and know which numbers were never issued?

It doesn't surprise me but if the allegations are true Topps should do something about this especially if PSA and the rest know its going on.

Morgoth · September 30, 2009 2:10PM

Allen it has gotten out of hand, along with the buyback fakes the card companies need to do something as these guys are ruining the value of their brands.

lsutigers1973 · September 30, 2009 2:11PM

And this is breaking news?

EagleEyeKid · September 30, 2009 2:11PM

Baseball sucks

csmtampa · September 30, 2009 2:13PM

Well 500 is the stated print run, but all weren't released since it was a redemption.

So it wouldn't be too hard to get away with the numbering issue.

MinorLeagueSource · September 30, 2009 2:19PM

<< And this is breaking news? >>

You closing your Ebay store is. What will the card collecting community do now?????

ripkenintheminors · September 30, 2009 2:22PM

At the risk of starting a small riot on this board I am not sure this card can definitively be labeled "greatest modern day card".

vladguerrero · September 30, 2009 2:32PM

<< slabed a couple of them in the pass? >>

maybe he means in the...

Anyways, if this is true and I don't see why it wouldn't be (technologically speaking) this is a huge problem. Grading companies are going to have to outlaw submissions and authentication from the entire state of NC.

metalmike · September 30, 2009 3:10PM

2001 Pujols are come are

TNP777 · September 30, 2009 4:21PM

<< 2001 Pujols are come are >>

What Mike said.

wtf did Mike say, anyway?

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · September 30, 2009 11:25PM

I recently had a Bowman Originals buyback rejected from BGS. "Service Unavailable" It was a /11 and I own 2 others /11 slabbed by them. Plus numerous other '06 B.O. buybacks slabbed by them. I wont know what the problem is until I get it in hand but the card did not show any signs of being fake. Wonder if they stopped grading buybacks due to fakes? If so, Thanks Burge and others, I'm not too happy about that.

lsutigers1973 · September 30, 2009 11:30PM

<< << And this is breaking news? >>

You closing your Ebay store is. What will the card collecting community do now????? >>

My point was that Burge is a known scumbag and everyone on this forum and most other sportscard forums knows about him and would never buy from him. You telling us of your "huge news" here is like telling a guy with lung cancer that smoking causes cancer.

Morgoth · September 30, 2009 11:46PM

Bill I agree with you about Burge, but it is news to me that the entire 2001 BC Pujols has been faked.

Once Burge and all his ID's are found he will either find more or find another person to be his front. Knowing that these cards are out there is important if true.

Take a look at the recent Becket Multisport Price Guide and on the hot list pictured is a 2001 Fleer Legacy Pujols Auto and guess what? The card they show has a 100% fake auto, in fact one of the worst looking fakes for that issue. So how is a person trying to figure out whats fake and real supposed to do when pubs like Beckett show a freaking fake auto in their own magazine? It is good to at least be proactive in getting info out there.

digicat · October 1, 2009 12:25AM

So they actually managed to reproduce a chrome refractor? Are we talking a perfect reproduction, or something that can be ID'ed as fake using the usual tells?

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 12:26AM

<< So they actually managed to reproduce a chrome refractor? Are we talking a perfect reproduction, or something that can be ID'ed as fake using the usual tells? >>

I was told perfect with the only thing giving it away was the era of the signature.

SDavid · October 1, 2009 12:31AM

It's only a matter of time before PSA will have to start requiring every autographed card--including post-1998 cards that were issued with an auto--to go through psa/dna.

On another board, someone posted that people were actually wiping way legit autographs and replacing them with fake autos just so the autograph would grade higher with BGS. If that's true (and I don't doubt it, if there's profit involved), then the only way to stop it is to authenticate every autograph, no exceptions. Otherwise, the stuff bgs kicks out will end up in psa holders (since the card is still good).

It wouldn't effect me, but it would mean a big increase in grading fees for those who submit modern autographed rookies.

link

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · October 1, 2009 12:42AM

<< It's only a matter of time before PSA will have to start requiring every autographed card--including post-1998 cards that were issued with an auto--to go through psa/dna.

On another board, someone posted that people were actually wiping way legit autographs and replacing them with fake autos just so the autograph would grade higher with BGS. If that's true (and I don't doubt it, if there's profit involved), then the only way to stop it is to authenticate every autograph, no exceptions. Otherwise, the stuff bgs kicks out will end up in psa holders (since the card is still good).

It wouldn't effect me, but it would mean a big increase in grading fees for those who submit modern autographed rookies.

link >>

I read that too and heard about people doing that a few years ago. That's what I think is going on, wiping and rewriting not making a whole new card.

digicat · October 1, 2009 1:20AM

<< I was told perfect with the only thing giving it away was the era of the signature. >>

How did they know that the card itself was reproduced, rather than just the signature (as mentioned a few posts above)?

tedh111 · October 1, 2009 1:40AM

I saw the Pujols cards. The cards themselves are real. The numbering was the main problem on the cards. The autographs looked good, but I am not a Pujols expert.

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 2:17AM

<< I saw the Pujols cards. The cards themselves are real. The numbering was the main problem on the cards. The autographs looked good, but I am not a Pujols expert. >>

The auto's failed both Jsa & Psa/Dna.

Why would you wipe off a auto on a card worth 4k?? That doesnt make sense on a card this valuable.

Best regards!

csmtampa · October 1, 2009 2:22AM

"Why would you wipe off a auto on a card worth 4k?? That doesnt make sense on a card this valuable"

A lot of the 2001 BC's have a fading problem, so if they wipe off the autograph and sign it again, the autograph is bolder and will most likely get a higher auto grade from Beckett. Also a bolder autograph would go for more than the usual faded one.

SDavid · October 1, 2009 2:32AM

I wonder what Albert would say if they just asked him to sign it again?

MeteoriteGuy · October 1, 2009 2:34AM

<< 

<< It's only a matter of time before PSA will have to start requiring every autographed card--including post-1998 cards that were issued with an auto--to go through psa/dna.

On another board, someone posted that people were actually wiping way legit autographs and replacing them with fake autos just so the autograph would grade higher with BGS. If that's true (and I don't doubt it, if there's profit involved), then the only way to stop it is to authenticate every autograph, no exceptions. Otherwise, the stuff bgs kicks out will end up in psa holders (since the card is still good).

It wouldn't effect me, but it would mean a big increase in grading fees for those who submit modern autographed rookies.

link >>

I read that too and heard about people doing that a few years ago. That's what I think is going on, wiping and rewriting not making a whole new card. >>

Have seen quite a few of them the last year. Also one has to watch out for the sticker removed from one card, auto erased, sticker placed on a different card and fake auto placed.

csmtampa · October 1, 2009 2:35AM

<< I wonder what Albert would say if they just asked him to sign it again? >>

He would say pay $175 to my foundation during the Cardinals Winter Warmup

ripkenintheminors · October 1, 2009 2:43AM

<< "Why would you wipe off a auto on a card worth 4k?? That doesnt make sense on a card this valuable"

A lot of the 2001 BC's have a fading problem, so if they wipe off the autograph and sign it again, the autograph is bolder and will most likely get a higher auto grade from Beckett. Also a bolder autograph would go for more than the usual faded one. >>

Agreed. The same thing has been happening with the '98 Manning Contenders where the sig has drastic impacts on the final price. Somewhere in this forum I started a thread about the impact of a bold sig on the card.

ripkenintheminors · October 1, 2009 2:45AM

<< 

<< "Why would you wipe off a auto on a card worth 4k?? That doesnt make sense on a card this valuable"

A lot of the 2001 BC's have a fading problem, so if they wipe off the autograph and sign it again, the autograph is bolder and will most likely get a higher auto grade from Beckett. Also a bolder autograph would go for more than the usual faded one. >>

Agreed. The same thing has been happening with the '98 Manning Contenders where the sig has drastic impacts on the final price. Somewhere in this forum I started a thread about the impact of a bold sig on the card. >>

For the record there was a $1,600+ difference between 2 copies of the Manning card with a 9 and a 6 on the autograph grade.

Popaznsupastar · October 1, 2009 2:56AM

What were the Manning's graded?

Also, regarding the Pujols card...damn what the hell has this industry come to?!?!

csmtampa · October 1, 2009 3:24AM

<< What were the Manning's graded?

Also, regarding the Pujols card...damn what the hell has this industry come to?!?! >>

Wherever theres money to be made, someone will always come up with something to make more of the fraud.

Its like the game used industry, a pounded game used bat will sell for more than a bat with a few ball marks. So fraudsters add a few more ball marks.

Same for cards, a sharp card will always sell for more than a card with 2 dinged corners. Therefore there are card trimmers.

And the list goes on and on and on

mtcards · October 1, 2009 4:10AM

Until someone, whether it be ebay or the card companies, go after some of these clowns, the risk/reward factor doesnt deter some of these scumbags. What it is going to take is kind of like what the recording industry did. They didnt have to sue EVERYONE to slow down music downloading, just a few and it shifted the industry to legal downloads (Yes, I know it still goes on, but nowhere close to what it was).

Have Burge or some of these other idiots spend a few years getting bubba love and see the stuff decrease

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 4:33AM

Sgc board moderator & employee verifying my story:

Sgc

hammered · October 1, 2009 5:22AM

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THEY (OR ANYONE) HAS THE ABILITY TO CREATE A COUNTERFEIT PUJOLS CHROME CARD
I don't think 'counterfeit' is the word you're looking for - what you mean is 'altered' or 'forged'
The SGC rep did NOT call it counterfeit - he said it had unverifiable auto and/or serial #
This is a BIG distinction - if they actually produced a counterfeit card - that is, printed their own card from their own presses - that is very, very troublesome.
If they simply wiped the auto or f**d with the serial #, that is nothing new. Just more forgery from a scumbag seller.

csmtampa · October 1, 2009 5:24AM

After reading some of the thread over at FCB, I can honestly say some collectors were born with the stupid gene.

And those are the ones who are buying the fake buybacks, fake patch cards, fake autographs, counterfeit cards etc.

The problem about the fakes that Burge seems to be coming up with every month, is the same as an autograph forgery ring.

Nothing can be done without absolute solid proof that he is doing it.

Look at Operation Bullpen. They knew Marino was forging, and that everyone was selling.

Problem was the FBI needed the proof (video or outright admitting) that he was doing it.

It was a good thing that Wayne Bray worked with the FBI, or else the ring would have gone on longer.

He provided them with the taped admissions and video of Greg signing.

The same thing will probably be needed to bust Burge. Sure they could kick him off of ebay, not let him do card shows, but there are tons of ways around that, and im sure he could figure it out.

Atleast with all these threads, Joe is working on getting the word out on what Burge is coming up with next.

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 5:24AM

<< I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THEY (OR ANYONE) HAS THE ABILITY TO CREATE A COUNTERFEIT PUJOLS CHROME CARD
I don't think 'counterfeit' is the word you're looking for - what you mean is 'altered' or 'forged'
The SGC rep did NOT call it counterfeit - he said it had unverifiable auto and/or serial #
This is a BIG distinction - if they actually produced a counterfeit card - that is, printed their own card from their own presses - that is very, very troublesome.
If they simply wiped the auto or f**d with the serial #, that is nothing new. Just more forgery from a scumbag seller. >>

I was told counterfeit from my source.

Allen · October 1, 2009 6:22AM

Yeah this is altering and resigning. Nothing new at all. Besides, you say it was "perfect" except for the signature, well then that would back up it being a wiped off auto. Besides we know how stupid the Burge group is, if they counterfeited that card they would have 50 listed by now. If they could make "perfect" counterfeit refractors then why not the Kobe Chrome refractor that brings $3K+ in a 10 or 9.5 and doe not require a forged signature.

StanTheManMusial · October 1, 2009 6:33AM

MinorLeagueSource,

I was talking about this issue back in August over here:

Forgery

It's not just one particular 3rd party grader getting it wrong, they ALL have dropped the ball and slabbed copies that have had the numbering or autograph altered. Some have even slabbed copies that have had both done, as you can clearly see from this SGC example.

tedh111 · October 1, 2009 6:36AM

The card is 100% not counterfeit so your source is wrong.... Secondly, everyone seems to have some wrong information that Kevin Burge had something to do with these cards. These cards were prucahsed from a dealer in NJ...

Allen · October 1, 2009 6:37AM

The altering of numbers and autos has been a problem with this card for years. There have been 2 graded copies of #5/500 since like 2003.

StanTheManMusial · October 1, 2009 6:37AM

<< 

<< I wonder what Albert would say if they just asked him to sign it again? >>

He would say pay $175 to my foundation during the Cardinals Winter Warmup >>

I highly doubt that.Pujols has openly said he will not sign his rookie cards. Todd Perry runs the Pujols Family Foundation, and is a collector as well. He and a few others have informed Albert as to what's going on with his rookie cards and such, and up to this point, Albert will not sign them according to all the info I have received.

StanTheManMusial · October 1, 2009 6:46AM

And yes, it appears that all they are doing is altering the ink on the cards, NOT counterfeiting NEW cards as MinorLeagueSource originally suggested.

CDsNuts · October 1, 2009 7:02AM

This counterfeiting theory is laughable. If they could reproduce the refractor technology, why would they do it on a numbered, autoed card where they could easily be caught? They could let the presses run on 96 Kobe, 95 BBest Vlad, 03 Lebron 93 Ripken, Ryan, Griffey's? These are non-numbered, unsigned cards that bring big money in 10/9.5 and there would be no chance of them getting caught if they could produce a perfect reproduction.

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 7:03AM

<< And yes, it appears that all they are doing is altering the ink on the cards, NOT counterfeiting NEW cards as MinorLeagueSource originally suggested. >>

So my source is wrong??? But everything I have said is true so far.

So let me follow you:

They had 3 different pujols rejected. So they took the 3 pujols cards worth about 4k & just redid the auto?? how much more can they actually get for the card if it wasnt graded gem?? i dont think much.

whatever the case the signatures were bad & rejected. also the card # was altered or redid.

tedh111 · October 1, 2009 7:06AM

Yes, your source is wrong.

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 7:09AM

ok he's wrong.

whatever!

StanTheManMusial · October 1, 2009 7:10AM

<< 

<< And yes, it appears that all they are doing is altering the ink on the cards, NOT counterfeiting NEW cards as MinorLeagueSource originally suggested. >>

So my source is wrong??? But everything I have said is true so far.

So let me follow you:

They had 3 different pujols rejected. So they took the 3 pujols cards worth about 4k & just redid the auto?? how much more can they actually get for the card if it wasnt graded gem?? i dont think much.

whatever the case the signatures were bad & rejected. also the card # was altered or redid. >>

I don't know what your "source" allegedly told you. But.... I am telling you that the cards are not counterfeits. The cards were more than likely rejected for being altered. I have yet to see a counterfeit Bowman Chrome Pujols rookie, and so far all the evidence has shown is cards that have had serial number or signature altering, or both.

MinorLeagueSource · October 1, 2009 7:12AM

<< 

<< 

<< And yes, it appears that all they are doing is altering the ink on the cards, NOT counterfeiting NEW cards as MinorLeagueSource originally suggested. >>

So my source is wrong??? But everything I have said is true so far.

So let me follow you:

They had 3 different pujols rejected. So they took the 3 pujols cards worth about 4k & just redid the auto?? how much more can they actually get for the card if it wasnt graded gem?? i dont think much.

whatever the case the signatures were bad & rejected. also the card # was altered or redid. >>

I don't know what your "source" allegedly told you. But.... I am telling you that the cards are not counterfeits. The cards were more than likely rejected for being altered. I have yet to see a counterfeit Bowman Chrome Pujols rookie, and so far all the evidence has shown is cards that have had serial number or signature altering, or both. >>

thats fine.

MUST READ Huge News about the 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols Auto Rc MUST READ

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