1997 W Jackie Robinson $5 Gold Unc. ?
Raufus
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I've been wanting to aquire the above coin for a couple of years. I was thinking that with the economy being what it is, this may be a good time to find a reasonable deal on one. My question, what IS a reasonable price for:
1) A raw one in ogp
2) MS69
3) MS70
Very few trade on Ebay, so not much to judge by. There have been a couple of MS70 in the 6K (ouch!) range, but they don't sell.
Thanks!
1) A raw one in ogp
2) MS69
3) MS70
Very few trade on Ebay, so not much to judge by. There have been a couple of MS70 in the 6K (ouch!) range, but they don't sell.
Thanks!
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Comments
<< <i>I woud think that an MS-70 for $6000 would be a great deal. They are about $1600 raw. >>
you might want to sell me as many raw ones as you can find at $1600.
They usually go about 4500 or 5000.
<< <i>Wholesale Greysheet Bid is 4,200 but these are soft and I've seen them sell on eBay in the mid 3K range. That's for a raw or an MS69; they basically bring the same price. An MS70 in NGC plastic would probably be the full Bid of 4,200 or slightly over it. MS70 in PCGS plastic probably at least 5K, the 6K is probably a little high but not too far off. >>
Thanks for the great info. The coins which I was considering are NGC 70s. They are $6K. Think I'll pass!
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<< <i>I have one uncirc and two proofs (one in a .311 set with card and pin) in my collection. >>
How rare is the proof coin set witht he card and the pin?
Store I was in on saturday had one.
<< <i>Wholesale Greysheet Bid is 4,200 but these are soft and I've seen them sell on eBay in the mid 3K range.
How can that be? >>
Greysheet is frequently slow to react to real market trends.
dealers typically buy 15% back of bid, so the "mid 3K range" is fairly accurate and not an indicator of a lagging sheet.
<< <i>Wholesale Greysheet Bid is 4,200 but these are soft and I've seen them sell on eBay in the mid 3K range.
How can that be? >>
For over a year, I can remember Unc Jackies selling below bid and being a very tough sell to retail customers. But I don't think the bid has changed at all. If you sell a raw or MS69 anywhere near bid, you're doing pretty well.
<< <i>Wholesale Greysheet Bid is 4,200 but these are soft and I've seen them sell on eBay in the mid 3K range.
dealers typically buy 15% back of bid, so the "mid 3K range" is fairly accurate and not an indicator of a lagging sheet. >>
Well, since what dealers do and what coins sell for on eBay have a tenuous connection at best,
your conclusion doesn't really follow. I've followed the modern gold commems for many years as a
buyer and seller, and the sheet is currently unrealistically high for most of the rarer issues.
Trust me on that.
And, then there is the tangential question....
If modern platinum coins with a mintage of a scant 2,500-3,000 are only selling for about 20%-25% or so over melt today, just how "rare' are the gold commems relatively speaking? If you prefer comparing "apples to apples", consider the 1 oz. rev proof gold (type coin) with a 10,000 mintage selling now for less than a few of the $5 gold commems with about the same mintage?? How can that be (rhetorical question)!!
Wondercoin
Actually it's a good question for people to ponder.
It causes one to consider the differences in mint output versus collector demand.
<< <i>If modern platinum coins with a mintage of a scant 2,500-3,000 are only selling for about 20%-25% or so over melt today, just how "rare' are the gold commems relatively speaking? If you prefer comparing "apples to apples", consider the 1 oz. rev proof gold (type coin) with a 10,000 mintage selling now for less than a few of the $5 gold commems with about the same mintage?? How can that be (rhetorical question)!!
Commemoratives have a larger collector base than bullion (especially platinum). (rhetorical answer)
Wondercoin
I think that this coin has been promoted to limit, and that it may well have hit its all time high price, excluding the effects that inflation is going to have on the value of the U.S. dollar. My take is that one who really wants one of these coins would do well to wait a year or so and let the dust settle.
And from my perspective, I have a couple Proof examples of the Jackie Robinson, and that satisfies my yearn to own an example of the coin. I usually don’t own two of anything, but one is in a two piece set (dollar and $5 gold) and one of those coin, baseball card, pin and patch sets. Years back I decided that I wanted to collect all of the commemorative sets that came in wooden boxes, so that’s why I have that set. I was last set I needed to complete the run.
<< <i>Coin junkie - is the Reverse Proof Gold Eagle merely bullion as well then?
Wondercoin >>
I believe technically it is. Unless you want to consider it a self-referential commemorative... but it certainly doesn't
get listed with the commems in the Greysheet.
What would you call it?
<< <i>are there any other baseball related coins? might be something i'd like to collect, real issues, not franklin mint type crap. >>
Here a cheap one to get in the comm silver dollars:
1992-S PROOF XXV OLYMPIAD BASEBALL SILVER DOLLAR W/ COA
There is also an 1859 medal for the Springfield, Massachusetts Pioneer baseball team. The piece is very cool, but you will have hunt to find one, and it will cost you several hundred dollars to buy it when you do. This is best picture I have of it at the moment.
<< <i>With a mintage of 5,174 and a survival rate that has to be close to 100%, the Jackie Robinson $5 gold coin in Uncirculated is anything but a “rare coin.” My experience with the Gray Sheet on modern commemorative gold coins is that the numbers are too high IF the Gray Sheet are what they are advertised to be – wholesale prices. The “real” wholesale prices are lower by at least 15% as Keets pointed out.
I think that this coin has been promoted to limit, and that it may well have hit its all time high price, excluding the effects that inflation is going to have on the value of the U.S. dollar. My take is that one who really wants one of these coins would do well to wait a year or so and let the dust settle.
And from my perspective, I have a couple Proof examples of the Jackie Robinson, and that satisfies my yearn to own an example of the coin. I usually don’t own two of anything, but one is in a two piece set (dollar and $5 gold) and one of those coin, baseball card, pin and patch sets. Years back I decided that I wanted to collect all of the commemorative sets that came in wooden boxes, so that’s why I have that set. I was last set I needed to complete the run. >>
Some good points, although I will point out that 5,174 is a lower mintage than almost all of the classic gold commems,
which I presume also have a very high survival rate (correct me if I'm wrong). Given that, the price of the Unc Jackie Robinson
doesn't seem outlandish.
BTW, my personal favorite commem for potential appreciation is the Unc 2000 Library of Congress gold/platinum coin. Mintage
of only 7,261, higher precious metal value, and the only bimetallic coin released by the US Mint to date.
By the way, I thought the LOC MS mintage was even a bit lower than the figure you mentioned and, I think that is a neat coin as well.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Coinjunkie - I am not big on labels. I would simply consider the reverse proof gold as an additional type coin in the proof gold eagle series.
By the way, I thought the LOC MS mintage was even a bit lower than the figure you mentioned and, I think that is a neat coin as well.
Wondercoin >>
I just quoted the mintage figure listed in the 2009 Red Book. I wish the mint would provide the official figures on
their web site.
<< <i>Some good points, although I will point out that 5,174 is a lower mintage than almost all of the classic gold commems, >>
Jackie Robinson $5 gold in Unc. - Mintage 5,174 - Gray Sheet bid $3,775 These coins almost always grade at least MS-68 or better.
OK let's look at some of them with similar mintages
Grant gold dollar - mintage 5,000 - Gray Sheet MS-66 bid $2,900
Grant gold dollar with star - mintage 5,016 - Gray Sheet MS-66 bid $2,550
1917 McKinley gold dollar - mintage 5,000 - Gray Sheet MS-66 bid $3,250
1915-S Pan-Pac $2.50 - mintage 6,749 - Gray Sheet MS-66 bid $6,000
I would add that finding these coins in MS-66 is a lot harder than finding the Jackie Robinson in the top grade.
And given the fact that many collectors, such as me, are very satisfied with the Proof Jackie Robinson coin, which has a mintage of 24,072, I think that touting the low mintage of the Unc. coin has made it somewhat over priced IMO.
The JR coin was well distributed (IMO, but seems to be borne out by the fact that there usually are not large accumulations to be found), and has appeal not only as a scarce item but also to baseball ephemera collectors and the African American community - BTW, this latter group has been increasing in number at least judging from the number of attendees at the Baltimore shows and elsewhere.
So keeping it simple, there are at least these reasons driving the demand for JR unc. gold but there is also that of it being the least available of a more widely collected series. It simply is NOT in the category of a bullion eagle, with proof, matte or currency finish or of the quoted Mac dollar coin.
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<< <i>The JR coin was well distributed (IMO, but seems to be borne out by the fact that there usually are not large accumulations to be found), and has appeal not only as a scarce item but also to baseball ephemera collectors and the African American community - >>
If the coin is so popular, why didn't collectors buy the dang thing when the mint was selling it? Back when the mint was selling it, the mint extended the ordering period by another six months to the consternation of many, but it didn't do much for sales.
It was only after the low mintage for the Unc. coin came to light that the coin became a "must have."
<< <i>
<< <i>The JR coin was well distributed (IMO, but seems to be borne out by the fact that there usually are not large accumulations to be found), and has appeal not only as a scarce item but also to baseball ephemera collectors and the African American community - >>
If the coin is so popular, why didn't collectors buy the dang thing when the mint was selling it? Back when the mint was selling it, the mint extended the ordering period by another six months to the consternation of many, but it didn't do much for sales.
It was only after the low mintage for the Unc. coin came to light that the coin became a "must have." >>
I beleive this may have been a hangover effect of the 1995/6 olympics overload of releases. There were so many options of things to by that collectors got worn out and many late 90s issues are less available that previous or later.
Note, I say less available, not rare, but fewer available overall.
Look this is NOT a rare coin on the supply side, but I do contend that the demand side is what holds the price. One in OGP closed on ebay just recently for around 2950 to my recollection.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Demand is always more important than supply. >>
This makes no sense. Both are important in relation to each other. No matter how great the demand is, if the supply is greater, prices will be suppressed.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Demand is always more important than supply. >>
This makes no sense. Both are important in relation to each other. No matter how great the demand is, if the supply is greater, prices will be suppressed. >>
I agree that demand is more important. There are many items that rare but not worth much because few, if any collectors want them. I'll bet that some of the Franklin Mint have become rare over time because of massive melts, but finding a collector who will consistently pay much more than melt for them is even rarer.
<< <i>I mean a McKinley dollar has about ZERO collector base of interest, and quite the opposite for the Jackie Robinson Five Dollar. >>
Wow!!! Talk about a gross exaggeration.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My favorite commem for potential appreciation is the (non)Spouse 2008 Jackson's Liberty $10 gold. Mintage is 7806 proof and 4754 uncirculated. Great classic obverse and well-designed coin overall. Many who pass on the First Spouse series will collect the non-Spouse "short set" with 18th and 19th century classic motifs.
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<< <i>>>BTW, my personal favorite commem for potential appreciation is the Unc 2000 Library of Congress gold/platinum coin. Mintage of only 7,261, higher precious metal value, and the only bimetallic coin released by the US Mint to date.<<
My favorite commem for potential appreciation is the (non)Spouse 2008 Jackson's Liberty $10 gold. Mintage is 7806 proof and 4754 uncirculated. Great classic obverse and well-designed coin overall. Many who pass on the First Spouse series will collect the non-Spouse "short set" with 18th and 19th century classic motifs. >>
Time will tell. I actively ignore the entire Spouse series (IMO, the concept is
won't be some sleeper investments therein...
And by the way, for whoever said that there is zero interest in the McKinley gold dollars they are wrong, I have two of them, a 1916 and a 1917 so there's a least a tiny bit of interest
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Well, just Love coins, period.