I agree with Charmy on this. I certainly hope she feels welcome here, because I think her contributions improve this forum. I would add that Charmy is one of many great women numismatists today and in the history of modern numismatics.
The first name that comes to mind is Laura Sperber, who is probably the most frequently-quoted person on this forum, and who is one of the most prominent coin dealers today. Like most influential people, she's a controversial personality, but I think most people here appreciate the fact that she calls things like she sees them, she usually turns out to be correct, and, like Charmy, she has an excellent eye for quality coins. Some other prominent women numismatists that come to mind are Mary Comstock (curator of coins at Boston's Museum of Fine Art), Barbara Gregory and Marilyn Reback (chief and senior editors of The Numismatist magazine), Elvira Clain-Stefanelli (former curator of the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian), Alla Melnikova (former curator of coins at the State Historical Museum in Moscow), Margo Russell and Beth Deisher (former and current Coin World editors), Adeline Beebe (prominent dealer of the last century), Autence Bason (author of the standard communion token reference), and Virginia Culver (author of the standard guide for Franklin Mint issues).
There are many other prominent women numismatists that don't come to mind immediately, but my point is that some of the most influential people in numismatics - past and present - are women.
Well old, white men are interested in numismastics because it is their own history is represented on the coins themselves. So naturally they feel a connection to it. "Minorites" might view the icons on the coins as alien or downright hostile. How could they not when they're taught how evil dead white men are. When ALL the future coin designs sprecifially omit white history figures/icons, in favor of ROsa Parks, Obama, MLK, Hillary et al. then a commensurate drop in collecting interest by whites will probably follow.
The more women and non old white guys in the hobby the better for the hobby I say. The hobby should draw particpants from all segments of society. If old white guy hobbiests do not like having to rub elbows with people who are not old white guys, well they need to step out of their comfort zone and stop their ossification.
This has been an interesting thread. Lots of good replies.
Recently we have had some threads touching upon demographics in the hobby, including this thread about women in the hobby.
Though some may find it improper, it would also be interesting to learn information about the religious affiliation, if any, of hobbiests. It would be interesting to see a collection of US and World coins that are tied to a religious theme. Perhaps some collectors have assembled such a set.
I don't know the answer here, but my observation is that women IN GENERAL prefer more social activities than sitting by themselves engrossed in reverie, whether it's coins or whatever. I enjoy social interactions, but they wear me out. My wife, on the other hand, is energized by them.
I'll also say that whatever the reason is, I DO hope I can get my daughter involved in numismatics. I think that many girls have an amazing eye for detail that would lend itself to coin collecting. I think the key is going to be how much time I spend with her to foster that love and interest--and maybe that's a real point here. How many Dads sit down with their daughters on a regular basis and just talk to them and teach them about what they love? Not enough!
<< <i> I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects. Welcome, Cornbread >>
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
<< <i> I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects. Welcome, Cornbread >>
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene >>
Heck I've got more shoes than you do, Maybe I was wrong but I know several women that own dozens of shoes.
Well, I tried my best with my two daughters. I bought them various coins, took them to coin shows, and helped them assemble complete sets of of state quarters from circulation. They both spent their sets soon after completing them, while I still have my childhood sets. They just don't like coins, and neither does my wife. They love to collect jewelry, dolls, and yes, shoes. Coins can be mechanical and cold, in a way, like guns and old tools which few women collect.
You cannot expect men to collect jewelry and dolls as women do. I have no interest in building a Barbie collection. Jewelry and dolls are woman things, while coins, guns, and tools are man things, with some exceptions but never to the level of equality. Call me sexist, but thats the way it is.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
<< <i> I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects. Welcome, Cornbread >>
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene >>
Marlene, please accept my apology. Obviously I'm guilty of not reading your whole post before I responded. Although I'm of your generation and guilty of being an old MWM, I do think I'm liberated. My wife of thirty six years and I have raised four young women, the oldest being 30 and the youngest being 23. The oldest shares her boy and girl with us often.
I am actually quite impressed with the forumites. Perhaps it is due to this somber 9-11 memorial day, but a topic like this could have easily turned into a flame war ending with the unceremonious *POOF* by our hosts. Instead it has drawn some very thoughtful responses and insights, with few detractions, on a very interesting topic. Congrats forumites!
Great thread seatedcollector!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
thanks dieclash ! im seeing alot of "women dont like collecting coins" when in fact i believe we have a few here that do, so heres another branch of this thread, ladies, what DO YOU like about collecting coins ?
My better-half prefers me to hoard 'bullion' instead of collecting classics. I can live with that.
That being said she has a better eye than I do in regards to details. She also has done a better job than I in making attempts to bring people into this 'hobby/investment'.
She just came back from a visit to her parents... and her Dad showed her his collection of bullion and classics at the SDB, and also introduced his collection to the '84 Olympic silver proof we bought for him (long story).
As for things we could do to make things here more attractive to women:
- open a permanent thread for them - be more open to the novice - change up the avatars
*** Give women free memberships to pcgs (mine first please) ***
My wife could care less for my collecting, but she should have been used to it, my father in law collects coins too. She had a small collection of dimes when she was a girl, then gave it up - still has them though.
My better-half prefers me to hoard 'bullion' instead of collecting classics. I can live with that.
That being said she has a better eye than I do in regards to details. She also has done a better job than I in making attempts to bring people into this 'hobby/investment'.
She just came back from a visit to her parents... and her Dad showed her his collection of bullion and classics at the SDB, and also introduced his collection to the '84 Olympic silver proof we bought for him (long story).
As for things we could do to make things here more attractive to women:
- open a permanent thread for them - be more open to the novice - change up the avatars
*** Give women free memberships to pcgs (mine first please) *** >>
I'll speak for myself only, but I can't imagine any woman on the board would need a permanent thread just for us, or to be treated any differently. There's a wide array of colors of skin, hair and eyes, people of all varying heights and weights, and a wide range of ages and ethnic backgrounds; there are only 2 different sexes.
We all collect coins, and what an awesome diversity of collectors we have here! We collect ancients, classics, moderns, foreign, toned, untoned, raw, slabbed, mint issues, and precious metals, not to mention the myriad of tokens and paper currencies. We find our coins in B&M's, on eBay, through auction houses, metal detecting and inheritances if we're blessed. Some can afford and enjoy coins costing $10k each, some in the hundreds of dollars, and some fill their books by looking through pocket change and bank rolls. Male or female, we're all drawn to the hobby for our own individual reasons, and no matter what our differences, we have that in common.
What this woman wants should be the same as any man... just simple respect.
Oh, and that free PCGS membership would be sweet too!
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
I gladly mirror and agree with what Mar327 says, especially about the stereotypical comments some of you old white guys have said about women (knitting, shoes, handbags, jewelry, barbies, geese - talk about generalizing women)! I love playing poker, grew up playing pool, shooting guns, camping, offroading, and whitewater rafting, and but I especially love coins! I also like jewelry, pretty clothes, handbags and shoes. And I know many men who like jewelry, nice clothes, and quality shoes (ok, I have to say I don't know many men who like barbies, so I'll give you that one!). But the good thing is that nowadays, diversity is being taught in schools and in the workplace, so our youth are learning early on to accept people of all races, ages, sexes, and interests - and not to put any one group in a box.
And Mar, your comment "Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......" is so true. If you old white guys want to see more women in the industry (or perhaps you don't?), it would be helpful if you demonstrated a little more respect, and less condescension. But let me say that, although there are a few chauvinistic comments here, for the most part it has been interesting and insightful to read this thread and see what some of you men think about having women in coins. Personally, I thought I really was going to hate reading this thread, but I have been pleasantly surprised.
And to SEATEDCOLLECTOR's question about what we (as women) like about collecting coins, here's my response. I love the design of Indian cents and especially the varied and colorful look of copper. I also appreciate that if you're careful, do some research, and choose the right coins, they can be a very good investment as well. But what I like the most is, in addition to sharing my personal collection with others and have others appreciate my coins, I love sharing my knowledge to the new and young collectors - it makes me feel like I'm giving back a little.
It has taken years to get my wife to relax over the amount of money coins cost and she enjoys searching thru bag after bag of wheat cents. I do not think most women see the value of coins.
I also do not see a group of 4 women eating lunch at the tea room showing there coins to one another. After they discuss shoes, diamonds, kids and the husband that can no longer do anything they are tired and do not have time to include coins into there daily lives
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Very nice thread which I would summarize as: 1) there aren't more female numismatists mostly because it has been an old boy's club that doesn't welcome women, though it does seem more men than women are interested; 2) the number of women in numismatics is growing and will very likely continue to; and 3) we can increase the number of women in numismatics and accelerate the rate of their inclusion by showing them the respect they deserve (and too frequently do not get).
I would add one additional comment for those who seem compelled to post insulting and disrespectful attempts at humor. There is occasionally a thread asking lurkers why they don't post more. I'm certain that that is also mostly about respect. I have been reading the forums for 3 years and have been a member for two. I still have less than 100 posts. The reason for that is that I find the forum has enough good and useful information and discussions to be worth reading, but there is just too much disrespect and childish behavior to make it worth the time it takes to enter into most of the discussions. That's just one person's opinion, but I thought I'd share it since the majority of this thread (clearly not all) has started to prove me wrong.
<< <i>WOW! Sadly, this thread just turned idiotic and pathetic. I'm going to have to take the bait on these. I sure hope the majority of men don't think the way these last few forum members do!
Portion of remarks edited out per request. >>
Charmy, This thread is about women who don't collect coins and why not. It is not about you, Laura Sperber, Marlene, or the few other exceptional women here who have broken the mold.
The "Not many men collect dolls" point actually has some value. --Jerry
Jerry, I am sorry I got ticked off enough by some forum members' comments to post what I did, but chauvinistic comments like the ones posted here ARE why some women don't take the initiative to get involved in what has historically been a sort of man's hobby. There are too many men who do not show enough respect for the women who may want to get their toes wet in numismatics. If the water is too cold, they and other newbies, whether men or women, will simply back off and not pursue it. Let's make the hobby more welcoming to women and other non-coin savvy people, and they will become more interested.
I for one wish there were more female numismatists... not just as a single guy, but as a businessman. My experiences in dealing with women at our store have always been positive. Frankly, they don't waste time, come in with an agenda, and are very businesslike for the most part...unlike all too many males that come in who just want to shoot the bull, tell me about what they/Grandma/Uncle Bob had, or otherwise kill time for little to no gain.
I always thought it would be interesting if someone put together some kind of matchmaking site for single numismatists...problem is there would be a lot of guys and few ladies (though that is changing!). And bidask...I've been there too. On a first date I mentioned that not only do I collect coins and currency, I do it for a living as well. Her face noticeably changed and got that "ewww" kind of look. (Sorry Charmy, but the fact is that some women simply don't appreciate what we do and I know it from experience...for some it's not looked on as a "real" job.)
There has been talk here of stereotyping...one big stereotype we need to fight is the one that holds "coin collector=nerd". Also, the one that says we're "all old white guys" (which imo is just as sexist- and racist- an attitude as what is being railed against). I started collecting at 7 and became a dealer at 20, and I'm 45 now. We have diverse customers of all races, including young girls that are just getting into the hobby as well...that said, most are caucasian but that's more a function of statistics, not of any attitude in this hobby, certainly not on my part as a dealer nor of any I know ...absolutely nothing is preventing members of other backgrounds (or the opposite sex for that matter) from taking up the hobby, so imo that's no one's problem (other than perhaps their own due to hangups/prejudices). JMHO
The "Not many men collect dolls" point actually has some value. --Jerry >>
I don't collect them, but I own several that were made by a Great Grandmother of mine, some almost 100 years ago. Frankly I am their guardian now, but with three daughters that all love dolls - the youngest one also loves coins - more than dolls, someone will get them.
Charmy, I am glad you are here, you have awesome coins and have a good eye for top notch materiel, you are breaking the mold here and are a very welcome addition. Frankly I could care less what gender someone is here, we are all collectors. As I have stated above in this thread, I regularly deal with several female dealers in coins and currency over in Europe. Hopefully soon there will be more like you here and then the bourse floor will not smell bad, and I don't have to worry about taking my daughters to shows.
BTW there are some dealers out there that treat my daughters like the princesses, notably Alex Basok sold my oldest daughter a Moldavia Wallachian coin worth much much more than he asked her for it.
I've generally noticed that when females do move in to a new area of adventure they begin to dominate the whole and in a rather short period of time. They tend to be friendlier and stay more focused on the task at hand. Diligent comes to mind. Overall this may be good for the hobby, but the nature and feel of the hobby as you have known it since inception will significantly change, not for the worse, just different.
I'm not espousing any negative vibes, but just making an observational based statement of what I beleve to be fact.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
I can give you a few ideas as to why but I will only touch on a small few.
Stated back at the start of this thread, " I don't think many women want to put up with the egos and the arguments that many males in this hobby carry around like a badge of honor". That is number ! in my book.
Coins are old and dirty, women like clean. Things that are nice.
While shopping with my wife I have noticed that ,me as a man I look for a bargin no matter what. A woman will pay the higher price.
Just a few, so why would we want more women in this venture, because we can't do with out them.
i have to admit, this thread was partially intended to weed out the sexist morons that have no clue that some women DO collect coins. (and can read too) i was hoping more women would chime in, but i believe they are for the most part sitting back laughing at some of the idiotic responses. which is EXACTLY why more women dont collect coins. there is a stereotype of women only liking jewelry, shoes and clothes, im guessing half of the male respondants here have ZERO idea what to get thier significant other for holidays because they know NOTHING about her. so for valentines day its an iron, birthdays always a vacuum cleaner, christmas is a new roof for the garage, ladies, not all men are the same, im about as much of a guy as any man could be, but i have ZERO interest in sports, i WILL NOT eat mashed potatoes, and i dont drink beer, (not saying i dont drink, just not a beer guy) and to say "all of" any group of people like/dislike do/dont whatever is just asinine. so we now know exactly why this is a predominantly male hobby, because a large percentage of males are actually just grown up boys, trying to behave like men, with a childish mentality. good job guys, we should be ashamed of ourselves and each other but somehow im sure shame was replaced with some sort of victory.
telephoto, Please take a look at the mug shots at the bottom of this Page and tell me about "diversity" in our hobby. JMHO!
<< <i>I for one wish there were more female numismatists... not just as a single guy, but as a businessman. My experiences in dealing with women at our store have always been positive. Frankly, they don't waste time, come in with an agenda, and are very businesslike for the most part...unlike all too many males that come in who just want to shoot the bull, tell me about what they/Grandma/Uncle Bob had, or otherwise kill time for little to no gain.
I always thought it would be interesting if someone put together some kind of matchmaking site for single numismatists...problem is there would be a lot of guys and few ladies (though that is changing!). And bidask...I've been there too. On a first date I mentioned that not only do I collect coins and currency, I do it for a living as well. Her face noticeably changed and got that "ewww" kind of look. (Sorry Charmy, but the fact is that some women simply don't appreciate what we do and I know it from experience...for some it's not looked on as a "real" job.)
There has been talk here of stereotyping...one big stereotype we need to fight is the one that holds "coin collector=nerd". Also, the one that says we're "all old white guys" (which imo is just as sexist- and racist- an attitude as what is being railed against). I started collecting at 7 and became a dealer at 20, and I'm 45 now. We have diverse customers of all races, including young girls that are just getting into the hobby as well...that said, most are caucasian but that's more a function of statistics, not of any attitude in this hobby, certainly not on my part as a dealer nor of any I know ...absolutely nothing is preventing members of other backgrounds (or the opposite sex for that matter) from taking up the hobby, so imo that's no one's problem (other than perhaps their own due to hangups/prejudices). JMHO >>
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Men will always act like men and women will always act as women (within norms), but if each like the hobby of collecting, buying/selling, talking coins; they'll do it for the hobby pleasure it brings to them, not because of respect, disrespect or any of the other non starters. Your either a coin person or your not, rather male or female.
Don't throw in the towle so fast. I've met many many husband and wife teams and it has always been a pleasure to deal with them equally. The common thread is the Love of thee coins, their history, their allure etc. Its not male vs female and never has been.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
Gee Charmy do not get so worked up. YOU probably know more about coins on this site than most that post here. You probably own more nice coins personally also. My comments were not posted to "bait you"
My comments were posted for the general area i live in. I guess i should had addressed married women with kids. For 20 plus years the women are busy with kids, school, football, plays and all the things that go along with that. There is just not time to devote to coins. I am shure some around here ( the small community i live in) that may collect coins but i have not run across them. My wife likes coins although i doubt she would have ever cared had i not gotten involved.
I live in a sports community and you can not imagine the time and effort parents put into this from the time kids are 3 years old. Some men actually semi retire while the kids are in high school to devote the time needed to see this thru. With sports you can lump in the band, cheerleaders, drill teams and more. It is a huge machine. 10 miles to the gallon is about the average mileage vehices get and the houses are expensive.
My son just graduated from high school and i can see that the wife and i will start having more time to do things we did not have time for before. My wife was looking for info on Matte proof Lincolns and joined this site. I took over her account after she found the info she wanted.
After the kids are gone i can see women wanting to get involved in a hobby, but the vast majority are not going to get involved in coins. This is a male dominated hobby and will always be. There is no sign at the door of shows or B&M's that say no women allowed. You read here all the time widows getting ripped at the dealer when selling the husbands collection.
As a female collector/dealer what are you doing different to try to attract women to the hobby?
*edited to include line "bait you", not to remove any statement
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Dieclash is going ultra liberal, next Die is going to use the ACLU to sue us all and force non collectors upon us due to supposed sexism and racial bias. Wow and I thought I just liked coins and their history and the pursuit of a good find. Then a minrd numbed liberal brainwashed (bad white man) Diedinthewool feminazi materializes and hauls us Coin collectors away.
What a sad day.
This thread has gone far enough, let the guilty white man hang. In somes mind thats what its all about, sad to see it here also.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
After observing this and several other coin hobby sites, two principle obstructions to increasing the involvement of women in numismatics are condescending and innuendo-laced posts and PMs. If men behaved this way to each other, I suspect the hobby would vanish.
And additional difficulty is that few new (or potential) collectors are exposed to the wider interest area of “numismatics” and not just collecting coins. History, engineering, social science, economics, metallurgy, politics and several other numismatically-related fields are wide open for new ideas, innovation and progressive change. But one sees almost none of this at hobby shows, on-line or publications.
seatedcollector, Numbers, RWB, and pennyannie - thank you for your comments. There are others with similar opinions and thoughts and you're all appreciated. Some, such as DieClash.... I can see your opinions being worth something, perhaps 150 years ago in a smoke-filled saloon.
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
It might have something to do with given my various interests, I've found far more bizarre behavior in numismatics than in any other. Ie., a) A fist fight over an auction coin b) The "gold bar incident" c) The stealing and 'replacing' of coins from ANA d) Walter Breen e) Behavior I've observed between dealers at various auctions f) As a corollary to e), various well known people in the industry acting like five year olds when dealing with one another g) The all too common rude treatment of potential customers at brick and motar shops (like offering junk silver prices for truly rare coins) and at shows (how many times have you been at a dealer table where the people behind the table were talking amongst themselves adn ignoring you)
Personally, I find most of the above entertaining in a sick sort of way, and if someone treats me rudely, I make a point of never doing business with said person. However, this sort of thing may be a turn off to many women who otherwise may have gotten into numismatics.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
the late WB was a real piece of work, i never met the guy, but im glad that all coin collectors dont share his "love' for children. there are many things that i dont like in this world, but three which i detest, the breathing garbage that do harm to animals, children, or women. i never met the late WB and im glad i didnt. CHILD MOLESTORS are not on my list of favorite people.
I only know this. My daughter was never real interested in coins until I showed her my Golden Spouse coins. Is it the gold, or the fact that they actually acknowledge women as contributors to history? That original fascination and interest now includes whatever new coins I get, and I love sharing coins and history with her. I have seen a lot of women show interest in the state quarters, and I assume the new America the Beautiful quarters will continue and cultivate more interest. I myself, was hooked by the beauty of Walking Liberties, Mercurys, Buffaloes, and Standing Liberties. Too much of our coinage for too long has had very little in the way of aesthetic value to attract any new collectors. With the advent of new series, new subjects, and I pray, a little more honest artwork I think a lot of non traditional collectors could be attracted into the fold. I have a sister-in-law, nieces, and students that I help get those new coins whether they be dollars, quarters, or even the new pennies. If we want more diversity in our hobby all we have to do is give a little, and share a little. I started because my Dad, Uncles, and their Male friends got me started--Sadly I never even thought about this before, but I never saw even one of those figures sharing knowledge, or coins with my sister or my female cousins. Maybe they wouldn't have been interested, but they never were given the exposure or the chance. Every now and then I'll haul my 7070 to school to show my kids and the interest is equally as strong from both sexes. If you were to ask my honest opinion I'd say there are not more women because they have been largely excluded from those formative, interest-spawning activities, that hooked so many of us when we were young, and this idea that it is a man's hobby is still alive and dominant in the minds of most collectors.
ive never been one to assess a person based on (presumably) what they do or dont have in thier pants, what they do or dont have in thier head requires MUCH less presumption.
This has been one of the most interesting threads to read. I am glad to see that so many people made intelligent, well thought out posts.
As scary as it is to say, of all my hobbies, this one has the most female involvement. One of my other hobbies, the number of females who are activly involved can be counted on one hand.
Another hobby, women are somewhat more involved but it is usually in combination with their husbands or boyfriends...very few are involved by themselves, for themselves. Both hobbies are automotive related.
I have not really been involved long enough in this hobby to form an actual theory of why there are not more women involved.
Of the few women I've talked to about this hobby (it has not been many; and I am talking about women that I know from "real life"- not from message boards) none of them seem to have any interest. They seem to view coins and currency as a tool to use to aquire more things, NOT as a thing to aquire in and of itself.
somewhere around here i have a fishing magazine, with a woman on the cover, holding a big fat steelhead, not in a bikini with her 38DD's swingin, she has her waders on, and all the gear, and if you look closely, you will see her fingernails are painted bright red. now, imagine for a moment, how much better women have to be at something to get accepted, let alone recognized in any hobby that is male dominated. to some "men" that may be perfectly fine, but in my eyes its pathetic and shameful.
Comments
The first name that comes to mind is Laura Sperber, who is probably the most frequently-quoted person on this forum, and who is one of the most prominent coin dealers today. Like most influential people, she's a controversial personality, but I think most people here appreciate the fact that she calls things like she sees them, she usually turns out to be correct, and, like Charmy, she has an excellent eye for quality coins. Some other prominent women numismatists that come to mind are Mary Comstock (curator of coins at Boston's Museum of Fine Art), Barbara Gregory and Marilyn Reback (chief and senior editors of The Numismatist magazine), Elvira Clain-Stefanelli (former curator of the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian), Alla Melnikova (former curator of coins at the State Historical Museum in Moscow), Margo Russell and Beth Deisher (former and current Coin World editors), Adeline Beebe (prominent dealer of the last century), Autence Bason (author of the standard communion token reference), and Virginia Culver (author of the standard guide for Franklin Mint issues).
There are many other prominent women numismatists that don't come to mind immediately, but my point is that some of the most influential people in numismatics - past and present - are women.
This has been an interesting thread. Lots of good replies.
Recently we have had some threads touching upon demographics in the hobby, including this thread about women in the hobby.
Though some may find it improper, it would also be interesting to learn information about the religious affiliation, if any, of hobbiests. It would be interesting to see a collection of US and World coins that are tied to a religious theme. Perhaps some collectors have assembled such a set.
I'll also say that whatever the reason is, I DO hope I can get my daughter involved in numismatics. I think that many girls have an amazing eye for detail that would lend itself to coin collecting. I think the key is going to be how much time I spend with her to foster that love and interest--and maybe that's a real point here. How many Dads sit down with their daughters on a regular basis and just talk to them and teach them about what they love? Not enough!
<< <i>
I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects.
Welcome, Cornbread
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects.
Welcome, Cornbread
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene >>
Heck I've got more shoes than you do, Maybe I was wrong but I know several women that own dozens of shoes.
You cannot expect men to collect jewelry and dolls as women do. I have no interest in building a Barbie collection. Jewelry and dolls are woman things, while coins, guns, and tools are man things, with some exceptions but never to the level of equality. Call me sexist, but thats the way it is.
as women just do not care to collect coins. if they wanted to they would.
they have other interests.
try as you might to get women involved if they do not want to or like
it they will not.
simple as that.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think MAR327 was very eloquent in his response. Much like business, the military, etc. liberation has come to our hobby. Maybe the institution should be renamed "the hobby of Royalty". I think the inclusion of women has made the hobby more interesting. As for men being collectors, my wife puts me to shame with all that she collects.
Welcome, Cornbread
Thank you very much, but it wasn't "HIS" response, it was "HER response"! If you'd read it all you may have caught that. I'm a wife of 33 years, mom to 2 and grandma to 3 and 2/3 grandchildren.
As far as shoes, that's a stereotypical response about women. I'm retired, and I don't need many shoes. I own 2 pairs of athletic shoes (tennies), 2 pairs of sandals, a pair of dress whites, and a pair of dress black shoes, as well as practical winter boots. 7 pairs... and only a pair of tennies and a pair of sandals were bought this year. It has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, I like to be comfortable and refuse to wear heels and spend money on footwear that isn't practical for me. Many women also collect handbags - I have 3 I switch off throughout the year, and may buy another this winter - but I'd rather buy a Seated Liberty Half Dollar than any shoes, purses or jewelry. Please do not lump us all together, and I won't call you all a bunch of old, fat and/or stinky white guys.
Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......
Marlene >>
Marlene, please accept my apology. Obviously I'm guilty of not reading your whole post before I responded. Although I'm of your generation and guilty of being an old MWM, I do think I'm liberated. My wife of thirty six years and I have raised four young women, the oldest being 30 and the youngest being 23. The oldest shares her boy and girl with us often.
Great thread seatedcollector!
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<< <i>My girlfriend calls coins "dead little pieces of metal".
Does she also call shoes vibrant alive little pieces of leather???
My better-half prefers me to hoard 'bullion' instead of collecting classics. I can live with that.
That being said she has a better eye than I do in regards to details. She also has done a better job than I in making attempts to bring people into this 'hobby/investment'.
She just came back from a visit to her parents... and her Dad showed her his collection of bullion and classics at the SDB, and also introduced his collection to the '84 Olympic silver proof we bought for him (long story).
As for things we could do to make things here more attractive to women:
- open a permanent thread for them
- be more open to the novice
- change up the avatars
*** Give women free memberships to pcgs (mine first please) ***
<< <i>I guess I must be blessed in this regard...
My better-half prefers me to hoard 'bullion' instead of collecting classics. I can live with that.
That being said she has a better eye than I do in regards to details. She also has done a better job than I in making attempts to bring people into this 'hobby/investment'.
She just came back from a visit to her parents... and her Dad showed her his collection of bullion and classics at the SDB, and also introduced his collection to the '84 Olympic silver proof we bought for him (long story).
As for things we could do to make things here more attractive to women:
- open a permanent thread for them
- be more open to the novice
- change up the avatars
*** Give women free memberships to pcgs (mine first please) *** >>
I'll speak for myself only, but I can't imagine any woman on the board would need a permanent thread just for us, or to be treated any differently. There's a wide array of colors of skin, hair and eyes, people of all varying heights and weights, and a wide range of ages and ethnic backgrounds; there are only 2 different sexes.
We all collect coins, and what an awesome diversity of collectors we have here! We collect ancients, classics, moderns, foreign, toned, untoned, raw, slabbed, mint issues, and precious metals, not to mention the myriad of tokens and paper currencies. We find our coins in B&M's, on eBay, through auction houses, metal detecting and inheritances if we're blessed. Some can afford and enjoy coins costing $10k each, some in the hundreds of dollars, and some fill their books by looking through pocket change and bank rolls. Male or female, we're all drawn to the hobby for our own individual reasons, and no matter what our differences, we have that in common.
What this woman wants should be the same as any man... just simple respect.
Oh, and that free PCGS membership would be sweet too!
And Mar, your comment "Wow, and you men actually wonder why seals are afraid of the shark-infested waters......" is so true. If you old white guys want to see more women in the industry (or perhaps you don't?), it would be helpful if you demonstrated a little more respect, and less condescension. But let me say that, although there are a few chauvinistic comments here, for the most part it has been interesting and insightful to read this thread and see what some of you men think about having women in coins. Personally, I thought I really was going to hate reading this thread, but I have been pleasantly surprised.
And to SEATEDCOLLECTOR's question about what we (as women) like about collecting coins, here's my response. I love the design of Indian cents and especially the varied and colorful look of copper. I also appreciate that if you're careful, do some research, and choose the right coins, they can be a very good investment as well. But what I like the most is, in addition to sharing my personal collection with others and have others appreciate my coins, I love sharing my knowledge to the new and young collectors - it makes me feel like I'm giving back a little.
The Penny Lady®
Nothing against women in the hobby. Just not their thing I guess.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
Now my wife of today, the smart one, has her name on all the safe deposit boxes, and knows she will one day own what coins I collect.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I also do not see a group of 4 women eating lunch at the tea room showing there coins to one another. After they discuss shoes, diamonds, kids and the husband that can no longer do anything they are tired and do not have time to include coins into there daily lives
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
EDITED TO REMOVE PREVIOUS COMMENTS DIRECTED TO NEANDERTHAL FORUM MEMBERS.
The Penny Lady®
I would add one additional comment for those who seem compelled to post insulting and disrespectful attempts at humor. There is occasionally a thread asking lurkers why they don't post more. I'm certain that that is also mostly about respect. I have been reading the forums for 3 years and have been a member for two. I still have less than 100 posts. The reason for that is that I find the forum has enough good and useful information and discussions to be worth reading, but there is just too much disrespect and childish behavior to make it worth the time it takes to enter into most of the discussions. That's just one person's opinion, but I thought I'd share it since the majority of this thread (clearly not all) has started to prove me wrong.
<< <i>WOW! Sadly, this thread just turned idiotic and pathetic. I'm going to have to take the bait on these. I sure hope the majority of men don't think the way these last few forum members do!
Portion of remarks edited out per request. >>
Charmy,
This thread is about women who don't collect coins and why not. It is not about you, Laura Sperber, Marlene, or the few other exceptional women here who have broken the mold.
The "Not many men collect dolls" point actually has some value. --Jerry
The Penny Lady®
I always thought it would be interesting if someone put together some kind of matchmaking site for single numismatists...problem is there would be a lot of guys and few ladies (though that is changing!). And bidask...I've been there too. On a first date I mentioned that not only do I collect coins and currency, I do it for a living as well. Her face noticeably changed and got that "ewww" kind of look. (Sorry Charmy, but the fact is that some women simply don't appreciate what we do and I know it from experience...for some it's not looked on as a "real" job.)
There has been talk here of stereotyping...one big stereotype we need to fight is the one that holds "coin collector=nerd". Also, the one that says we're "all old white guys" (which imo is just as sexist- and racist- an attitude as what is being railed against). I started collecting at 7 and became a dealer at 20, and I'm 45 now. We have diverse customers of all races, including young girls that are just getting into the hobby as well...that said, most are caucasian but that's more a function of statistics, not of any attitude in this hobby, certainly not on my part as a dealer nor of any I know ...absolutely nothing is preventing members of other backgrounds (or the opposite sex for that matter) from taking up the hobby, so imo that's no one's problem (other than perhaps their own due to hangups/prejudices). JMHO
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
The "Not many men collect dolls" point actually has some value. --Jerry >>
I don't collect them, but I own several that were made by a Great Grandmother of mine, some almost 100 years ago. Frankly I am their guardian now, but with three daughters that all love dolls - the youngest one also loves coins - more than dolls, someone will get them.
BTW there are some dealers out there that treat my daughters like the princesses, notably Alex Basok sold my oldest daughter a Moldavia Wallachian coin worth much much more than he asked her for it.
I've generally noticed that when females do move in to a new area of adventure they begin to dominate the whole and in a rather short period of time. They tend to be friendlier and stay more focused on the task at hand. Diligent comes to mind. Overall this may be good for the hobby, but the nature and feel of the hobby as you have known it since inception will significantly change, not for the worse, just different.
I'm not espousing any negative vibes, but just making an observational based statement of what I beleve to be fact.
Stated back at the start of this thread,
" I don't think many women want to put up with the egos and the arguments that many males in this hobby carry around like a badge of honor".
That is number ! in my book.
Coins are old and dirty, women like clean. Things that are nice.
While shopping with my wife I have noticed that ,me as a man I look for a bargin no matter what. A woman will pay the higher price.
Just a few, so why would we want more women in this venture, because we can't do with out them.
<< <i>I for one wish there were more female numismatists... not just as a single guy, but as a businessman. My experiences in dealing with women at our store have always been positive. Frankly, they don't waste time, come in with an agenda, and are very businesslike for the most part...unlike all too many males that come in who just want to shoot the bull, tell me about what they/Grandma/Uncle Bob had, or otherwise kill time for little to no gain.
I always thought it would be interesting if someone put together some kind of matchmaking site for single numismatists...problem is there would be a lot of guys and few ladies (though that is changing!). And bidask...I've been there too. On a first date I mentioned that not only do I collect coins and currency, I do it for a living as well. Her face noticeably changed and got that "ewww" kind of look. (Sorry Charmy, but the fact is that some women simply don't appreciate what we do and I know it from experience...for some it's not looked on as a "real" job.)
There has been talk here of stereotyping...one big stereotype we need to fight is the one that holds "coin collector=nerd". Also, the one that says we're "all old white guys" (which imo is just as sexist- and racist- an attitude as what is being railed against). I started collecting at 7 and became a dealer at 20, and I'm 45 now. We have diverse customers of all races, including young girls that are just getting into the hobby as well...that said, most are caucasian but that's more a function of statistics, not of any attitude in this hobby, certainly not on my part as a dealer nor of any I know ...absolutely nothing is preventing members of other backgrounds (or the opposite sex for that matter) from taking up the hobby, so imo that's no one's problem (other than perhaps their own due to hangups/prejudices). JMHO >>
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Men will always act like men and women will always act as women (within norms), but if each like the hobby of collecting, buying/selling, talking coins; they'll
do it for the hobby pleasure it brings to them, not because of respect, disrespect or any of the other non starters. Your either a coin person or your not, rather male or female.
Don't throw in the towle so fast. I've met many many husband and wife teams and it has always been a pleasure to deal with them equally. The common thread is the Love of thee coins, their history, their allure etc. Its not male vs female and never has been.
My comments were posted for the general area i live in. I guess i should had addressed married women with kids. For 20 plus years the women are busy with kids, school, football, plays and all the things that go along with that. There is just not time to devote to coins. I am shure some around here ( the small community i live in) that may collect coins but i have not run across them. My wife likes coins although i doubt she would have ever cared had i not gotten involved.
I live in a sports community and you can not imagine the time and effort parents put into this from the time kids are 3 years old. Some men actually semi retire while the kids are in high school to devote the time needed to see this thru. With sports you can lump in the band, cheerleaders, drill teams and more. It is a huge machine. 10 miles to the gallon is about the average mileage vehices get and the houses are expensive.
My son just graduated from high school and i can see that the wife and i will start having more time to do things we did not have time for before. My wife was looking for info on Matte proof Lincolns and joined this site. I took over her account after she found the info she wanted.
After the kids are gone i can see women wanting to get involved in a hobby, but the vast majority are not going to get involved in coins. This is a male dominated hobby and will always be. There is no sign at the door of shows or B&M's that say no women allowed. You read here all the time widows getting ripped at the dealer when selling the husbands collection.
As a female collector/dealer what are you doing different to try to attract women to the hobby?
*edited to include line "bait you", not to remove any statement
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Dieclash is going ultra liberal, next Die is going to use the ACLU to sue us all and force non collectors upon us due to supposed sexism and racial bias. Wow and I thought I just liked coins and their history and the pursuit of a good find. Then a minrd numbed liberal brainwashed (bad white man) Diedinthewool feminazi materializes and hauls us Coin collectors away.
What a sad day.
This thread has gone far enough, let the guilty white man hang. In somes mind thats what its all about, sad to see it here also.
And additional difficulty is that few new (or potential) collectors are exposed to the wider interest area of “numismatics” and not just collecting coins. History, engineering, social science, economics, metallurgy, politics and several other numismatically-related fields are wide open for new ideas, innovation and progressive change. But one sees almost none of this at hobby shows, on-line or publications.
a) A fist fight over an auction coin
b) The "gold bar incident"
c) The stealing and 'replacing' of coins from ANA
d) Walter Breen
e) Behavior I've observed between dealers at various auctions
f) As a corollary to e), various well known people in the industry acting like five year olds when dealing with one another
g) The all too common rude treatment of potential customers at brick and motar shops (like offering junk silver prices for truly rare coins) and at shows (how many times have you been at a dealer table where the people behind the table were talking amongst themselves adn ignoring you)
Personally, I find most of the above entertaining in a sick sort of way, and if someone treats me rudely, I make a point of never doing business with said person. However, this sort of thing may be a turn off to many women who otherwise may have gotten into numismatics.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
As scary as it is to say, of all my hobbies, this one has the most female involvement. One of my other hobbies, the number of females who are activly involved can be counted on one hand.
Another hobby, women are somewhat more involved but it is usually in combination with their husbands or boyfriends...very few are involved by themselves, for themselves. Both hobbies are automotive related.
I have not really been involved long enough in this hobby to form an actual theory of why there are not more women involved.
Of the few women I've talked to about this hobby (it has not been many; and I am talking about women that I know from "real life"- not from message boards) none of them seem to have any interest. They seem to view coins and currency as a tool to use to aquire more things, NOT as a thing to aquire in and of itself.
sense, then to spend thousands
of dollars on a fifty cent piece.
Sometimes I wonder how the menfolk
ever survive their foolishness.
Camelot
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
100
congrats, seatedcollector
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5