Are we allowed to ask more of the GREYSHEET?
coinmanic
Posts: 572
This thing is treated like the Bible, but man they are way off on some coins. I just checked the 2000, $10 Lib of Congress MS, and their bid is high by $1000. Nearly the same on the 1997 $5 MS Robinson. The sheet is dated 8/14/09 and the current prices on these commems have been at these levels for 6 months or so.
I find Morgans to typically be close to the sheet and I know that it is tough to keep up in a fast market, but some of the numbers are waaaaay off.
I find Morgans to typically be close to the sheet and I know that it is tough to keep up in a fast market, but some of the numbers are waaaaay off.
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Of course, you're allowed to ask anything of Greysheet, and when they exercise their prerogative to ignore you, find an alternate pricing tool.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I am sure that they would ignore a call for more accurate info. I believe that this is their only business so that they really have no excuse.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
to usre an electron microscope to read the numbers.
Camelot
Have a jelly donut. I hear they contain carotenoids to improve eyesight
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Camelot
<< <i>If the type is made any smaller, one might have to usre an electron microscope to read the numbers. >>
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<< <i>If the type is made any smaller, one might have
to usre an electron microscope to read the numbers.
I just figured they know were coin collectors and have loupes.
They routinely state that they look for pricing information from multiple sources. Why not drop them an e-mail about the issues you fell are priced incorrectly, citing public records, such as ebay, to back up your assertion. Of course, you should only report transactions where you are a principal, not an observer. I would be curious to hear the response (if any).
Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe of the sheet alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of coin collectors.
merse
42/92
BTW..It's beyond me, why they still compare INS graded coins in their "Market Indicator" section....Does anyone still have any of those loosers?
Tech is changing alot of things, I will not renew my GS membership when the year is up. The iphone,palm pre,ect & smaller faster laptops allow anyone to get "real time" prices on coins & currency.
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Still, I can't see why you people even have eBay in this discussion. The site is full of counterfeit coins, and the eBay does a totally inadequate job of policing that problem. Even when eBay was "good," many legitimate dealers used it as a place to sell the less than front line coins that they had in their inventory. To put it bluntly, they used eBay to dump the stuff they couldn’t sell at the shows. For that reason the prices realized were often lower than the market for attractive, properly graded material.
If you are using eBay as a justification for lower prices, you are off base. Sure prices are dropping for many items, but the reason is lower demand. When you put eBay in the picture you are adding lower quality “C coins” as a factor plus the perception that many of us have that eBay is bad place for both buyers and sellers.
<< <i>They routinely state that they look for pricing information from multiple sources. Why not drop them an e-mail about the issues you fell are priced incorrectly, citing public records, such as ebay, to back up your assertion. >>
I hope no one gets all gung ho and updates the pricing on better Barber coins and early walkers....
As for keeping pricing current using auctions, transactions, etc., that would be a tough job for anyone.....how does one discount all the 'rips' I see posted? A dealer at our local show recently sold me a nice original XF Barber half for $110, well below sheet, which is $145. He said he bought it for $75. The Barber guys say Grey sheet is way low for Barber halves in XF and AU.....so, put all this data in your iPhone and tell me where you would price Barber halves in XF.
<< <i>I'll grant you that the Gray Sheet has its flaws. The modern commemorative coin section is off base as well as some of the roll prices.
Still, I can't see why you people even have eBay in this discussion. The site is full of counterfeit coins, and the eBay does a totally inadequate job of policing that problem. Even when eBay was "good," many legitimate dealers used it as a place to sell the less than front line coins that they had in their inventory. To put it bluntly, they used eBay to dump the stuff they couldn’t sell at the shows. For that reason the prices realized were often lower than the market for attractive, properly graded material.
If you are using eBay as a justification for lower prices, you are off base. Sure prices are dropping for many items, but the reason is lower demand. When you put eBay in the picture you are adding lower quality “C coins” as a factor plus the perception that many of us have that eBay is bad place for both buyers and sellers. >>
I would estimate the average quality on Ebay to be about the same as Heritage or Teletrade, though it does have more fakes, including fake slabs, and much fewer high value coins actually selling. I've heard folks say the same thing about Heritage and Teletrade, that dealers sometimes use those auctions to "dump" coins that won't move, if a buyer sees the coin in hand. So can we also eliminate Heritage and Teletrade from the pricing discussion too? And in doing so maybe eliminate over 50%+ of the entire volume of transactions for certain coins? Seems silly to me.
The conundrum is that virtually every retail seller thinks their coin is above average, or at least will say so when asked, when by definition, half are above average, half are below average, or one-third is above, one-third is average, one-third below average. For some series, many of the nicer quality coins are held in long time collections, and it is mostly the lower tiers that makes the rounds, going from dealer to dealer, when each can not find retail buyers, but needs to do something to find new inventory.
As for greysheet, it has always been off on a good many coins. I do think it is becoming more of a problem lately.
I would love to have an alternate to the Greysheet, one that is more accurate and up to date. There are enough datapoints around that, if one had the time and $ to acquire them they could be consolidated into a usable detailed electronic (and print if needed) pricing sheet showing ranges, trends, etc. of real, recent sales.
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<< <i>Numismedia >>
Thank you for the Numismedia. We should also mention the new PCGS site that offers comprehensive auction results. I have not tried it yet, but may sign up for a month to check it out.
<< <i>Still, I can't see why you people even have eBay in this discussion. The site is full of counterfeit coins, and the eBay does a totally inadequate job of policing that problem. >>
I just love these "General Statements" I agree, that there are counterfeit coins on eBay, but my comment was for the so called "modern junk"...eBay is still the best gauge.
BTW there are currently over 150,000 ongoing auctions for US Coins. What % would you say are counterfeit?
eBay
<< <i>BTW there are currently over 150,000 ongoing auctions for US Coins. What % would you say are counterfeit? >>
The percentage is too high to make the site credible, and there are too many repeat performance offenders who don’t get the boot. I understand that Yahoo is now out the auction business because they did not police their site well. Why is eBay exempt from criticism?
Maybe you should jump on every person here who posts messages warning us of one eBay offered counterfeit after another. It seems like we get almost one a day. While you are at it perhaps you can complain about COINage magazine which published an article a couple of months ago about the ongoing problems at eBay, and eBay’s apparent lack of interest in fixing the problem even when profession numismatists are ready to help.
There is no place fraudulent auction practices in this business, and there no place for firms and individuals who traffic the Chinese counterfeit trash that is threatening our hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>Still, I can't see why you people even have eBay in this discussion. The site is full of counterfeit coins, and the eBay does a totally inadequate job of policing that problem. >>
I just love these "General Statements" I agree, that there are counterfeit coins on eBay, but my comment was for the so called "modern junk"...eBay is still the best gauge.
BTW there are currently over 150,000 ongoing auctions for US Coins. What % would you say are counterfeit?
eBay >>
Counterfeits would not be the only problem with using ebay as a pricing source. For a seldom traded issue, a seller could create a few, high dollar, fake transactions using sockpuppets. That would then plus the sheet, and they could dump their inventory to unsuspecting buyers at artificially inflated prices. It would allow for manipulation too easily. Ebay is not the same as a reputable auction house, like Heritage, where a reported sale means a coin changed hands. (I know, I know, you don't have to say it). But, many strange things can happen on ebay.
merse
That being said. I find Ebay extremely useful for pricing PCGS/NGC graded coins. I generally overlook BIN prices and instead look at true auctions. Not perfect, but much better than the Greysheet on many coins.
<< <i>The percentage too high to make the site credible, and there are too many repeat performance offenders who don’t get the boot. I understand that Yahoo is now out the auction business because they did not police their site well. Why is eBay exempt from criticism? >>
Once again, just another general statement..."percentage is to high".... "to many repeat performers" yada, yada.... What % are you talking about and how many repeat performers? Give me some stats that I can relate to. Yahoo has been out of the auction business for some time now, because they could not compete. Exempt from criticism? I don't think so, it seems every time I open a coin magazine there is an article about Chinese Fraud Rings on eBay. Most have 2 things in common...1) Chinese seller ... 2) Chinese seller with "Raw coins" at unrealistic low prices. I agree, eBay does a lousy job in policing potential fraud on the bay, but I do believe the % is minuscule compared to the total coin auctions. Caveat Emptor holds true with any auction, whether it be on eBay, Teletrade etc, ect, or buying from most dealers. Again, for Rolls, Moderns & Mint products (post 1964 ) eBay is the place, with the most accurate pricing track record.