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How one good coin can carry you
RYK
Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
As many of you are aware, I have sold some of my most valuable coins. I never viewed coin collecting as an investment, but when you are buying expensive coins, it is hard to ignore their value. My biggest home run since I have starting collecting, on a dollar value basis, was the 1861-O $20 PCGS XF-45.
For those who are not aware, it is of historic significance, as it is one of the four southern gold coins that may have been coined under the supervision of the Confederate government (and not the US). I purchased the coin in 2003, and though I was looking for one, it was quite by accident that I found it. I had never heard of dealer, Bob Greene, until there was a thread early that year in which he and a forum member got into a public dispute on this forum. Soon thereafter, I was checking out his inventory, and I found the coin that was #1 on my want list. I quickly purchased it and was very happy with the transaction. Were it not for the thread, the coin would never have been mine.
At the time, I told several collectors and dealers that I would like to buy at least one more (preferably the strong date variety) because I thought it was a very interesting and undervalued issue. I never had another opportunity in the open market, and I saw the ones offered in auction continue to step up in price over the years.
Alas, as I have reassessed my financial priorities, I have sold the coin for an extreme profit. Even after dealer commission, I received five times what I paid for it. Had I sold it a year ago, it probably could have been six or seven times, as NO Liberty $20's have softened a bit.
The point is that my upside in this coin was so large that it alone has wiped out all losses and mistakes that have occurred since 2003. Essentially, I have enjoyed the hobby for free, which is my way of looking at it, though admittedly somewhat skewed.
I hope the new owner and enjoys it as much as I did.
For those who are not aware, it is of historic significance, as it is one of the four southern gold coins that may have been coined under the supervision of the Confederate government (and not the US). I purchased the coin in 2003, and though I was looking for one, it was quite by accident that I found it. I had never heard of dealer, Bob Greene, until there was a thread early that year in which he and a forum member got into a public dispute on this forum. Soon thereafter, I was checking out his inventory, and I found the coin that was #1 on my want list. I quickly purchased it and was very happy with the transaction. Were it not for the thread, the coin would never have been mine.
At the time, I told several collectors and dealers that I would like to buy at least one more (preferably the strong date variety) because I thought it was a very interesting and undervalued issue. I never had another opportunity in the open market, and I saw the ones offered in auction continue to step up in price over the years.
Alas, as I have reassessed my financial priorities, I have sold the coin for an extreme profit. Even after dealer commission, I received five times what I paid for it. Had I sold it a year ago, it probably could have been six or seven times, as NO Liberty $20's have softened a bit.
The point is that my upside in this coin was so large that it alone has wiped out all losses and mistakes that have occurred since 2003. Essentially, I have enjoyed the hobby for free, which is my way of looking at it, though admittedly somewhat skewed.
I hope the new owner and enjoys it as much as I did.
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<< <i>As many of you are aware, I have sold some of my most valuable coins. I never viewed coin collecting as an investment, but when you are buying expensive coins, it is hard to ignore their value. My biggest home run since I have starting collecting, on a dollar value basis, was the 1861-O $20 PCGS XF-45.
For those who are not aware, it is of historic significance, as it is one of the four Dahlonega coins that may have been coined under the supervision of the Confederate government (and not the US). I purchased the coin in 2003, and though I was looking for one, it was quite by accident that I found it. I had never heard of dealer, Bob Greene, until there was a thread early that year in which he and a forum member got into a public dispute on this forum. Soon thereafter, I was checking out his inventory, and I found the coin that was #1 on my want list. I quickly purchased it and was very happy with the transaction. Were it not for the thread, the coin would never have been mine.
At the time, I told several collectors and dealers that I would like to buy at least one more (preferably the strong date variety) because I thought it was a very interesting and undervalued issue. I never had another opportunity in the open market, and I saw the ones offered in auction continue to step up in price over the years.
Alas, as I have reassessed my financial priorities, I have sold the coin for an extreme profit. Even after dealer commission, I received five times what I paid for it. Had I sold it a year ago, it probably could have been six or seven times, as NO Liberty $20's have softened a bit.
The point is that my upside in this coin was so large that it alone has wiped out all losses and mistakes that have occurred since 2003. Essentially, I have enjoyed the hobby for free, which is my way of looking at it, though admittedly somewhat skewed.
I hope the new owner and enjoys it as much as I did.
Robert, I know im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I was completely lost after you said it was an 1861-O, then you go on to talk about it being 1 of 4 Dahlonega coins......
Please clarify for us numismatic mental midgets.
And see how it only took you 26,574 posts to get there?
My bad...I meant "one of four southern gold coins" and have changed the OP to reflect it.
Sounds like it was a win / win stituation for everyone involved.
to make up for all of my coin mistakes. Sometimes
I feel like I am being nibbled to death by ducks.
Camelot
Being in this hobby for free is a hell of a way to go.
(no gecko, Im no agreeing with you.)
That coin can be classified as a moose, and it is nice to hear that you made an Obscene Profit on it. I also like your reassessment of financial priorities and plowing the money into excessively rare Beanie Babies.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Since I am pretty clueless, I must ask- what is it that makes you think that it is one of 4 minted by the CSA? >>
Here's an article I wrote on the topic, for the SGS newsletter, in 2007:
The Southern Gold Coins of 1861
By RYK
For citizens of the United States, and as well for the collector of Southern Gold, 1861 was a pivotal year in our history. Of course, this was the year in which the decades of tension between the northern states and the southern states finally devolved into what is now known as the Civil War. For the southern gold coin collector, this year has particularly great significance as the three operating southern branch mints (Charlotte, Dahlonega, and New Orleans) all ceased production in 1861, but not before each issued a denomination (or two, in the case of Dahlonega), under the auspices of their new governing body (either State or Confederacy). There are a total of four southern branch mint coins from 1861, and we will discuss them all herein.
1861-D gold dollar
The 1861-D gold dollar is the only dollar denomination southern gold coin of 1861, and the only issue whose entire mintage is believed to have been struck by the Confederacy. No 1861-D dollars were struck by the Mint while under United States control, but approximately 1000-1500 pieces are estimated to have been struck while the Mint was under Confederate control after being seized by rebel forces in April, 1861. The 1861-D gold dollar has ever been a popular issue among numismatists. If one researches auction catalogs from the first half of the twentieth century, these were even then considered to be notable pieces, found in better collections, and sold for premium prices over coins that are considered to be more significant rarities today.
Regrettably, for the Dahlonega collector, 1861-D dollars have appeared infrequently at auction and retail offerings over the past several years, with the majority of those available have had significant “problems”. Interestingly, when acceptable pieces do come to market they tend to be higher in grade (AU or better). The two finest known pieces are currently impounded in the Alabama Collection, both coins having illustrious pedigrees from the finest cabinets of the last century.
1861-C half eagle
The 1861-C is the most common of the southern gold issues of 1861, and it is the coin that when found is probably the least likely to have been struck by the Confederacy. 5992 pieces were struck by the US Mint, with another 887 issued in May, 1861, one month after Confederate forces took over operation of the Charlotte branch mint. In 1997, Winter estimated that there were 95-105 survivors, but I suspect that when Gold Coins of the Charlotte Mint is reissued, this estimate will be revised upward, to perhaps as high as 125 or more pieces. These are seen with some regularity in larger US coins auctions and not infrequently in dealer inventories. They are also, for the grade, the least expensive of the southern gold coins of 1861, and have always been less expensive and more available than the sister issue from the Dahlonega Mint.
1861-D half eagle
The 1861-D half eagle is the second of two issues of 1861 that was produced in Dahlonega in the final year of operation of the Dahlonega Mint. 1597 coins were struck while the Mint was under U.S. control and another one to two thousand struck after the Confederacy told charge in April, 1861. It is a popular and challenging issue for collectors of Dahlonega gold, and many consider it to be the key date of the Dahlonega half eagle date set, with around 65-75 pieces known. The 1861-D half eagle has appeared only occasionally at auction over the past few years, and the nicer pieces have sold for prices well over published price guide values. Despite the small number of coins, those that do survive are proportionally better preserved than many other dates in the Dahlonega half eagle series.
1861-O double eagle
The 1861-O double eagle is the only larger denomination 1861 southern gold coin and the only one struck at the New Orleans Mint. 5000 were struck by the Union, 9750 by the State of Louisiana, and 2991 by the Confederacy for a total mintage of 17,741 pieces. Most examples that are found have the strike characteristic of a weak lower half of the date, while a minority show a strong date, leading some to speculate that either the weak lower digits or strong are more likely to be struck by non-Union coiners. There is no proof or consensus of this point among collectors. There is also a fascinating theory, offered by Tom Hoke (The Numismatist, September, 1994), that as many as 5000 pieces were stolen and hidden by Mint Superintendent and Confederate sympathizer (and later Confederate Army Captain) Johnson Kelly Duncan. Such a hoard is rumored, but has never been discovered, and based on the evidence, it is unlikely to exist.
The 1861-O $20 is a coin that is in great demand from both collectors of New Orleans gold and the $20 Liberty gold series, such that the estimated 150 or so surviving pieces are highly sought. The coins do appear fairly regularly at auction, more often than the 1861-D $5’s, and usually sell for prices beyond what is published.
Summary
1861 was an extremely interesting year historically and remains of numismatic importance for the southern gold collector. If a collector would like a single southern gold coin from this year, the 1861-C half eagle is the easiest and least expensive choice. Assembling the complete four-coin set of southern gold coins of 1861 is surprisingly challenging and has become rather expensive, as well. As a collector, I would recommend this as an interesting side project for one who is interested in southern gold, rather than the main focus, as acquiring acceptable coins in nearly any price point will require much time and patience, and acquisitions will likely be spaced over a long period of time.
Camelot
monetary sum, coin mistake loses can approach a sum that
may be hard to justify. A few big gains can go a long way
in allowing someone to continue collecting with a clear financial
conscience. One must remember, a family person has
obligations to their family that takes precedence over even
ones collection.
Camelot
<< <i>RYK,
here is my odd opinion. Why is it important to wipe out hobby losses, why is it important to have your hobby cost nothing? A coin that great would be a coin that I would want to hold on forever, since it is practically impossible to acquire, practically irrreplaceable. This is meant with no disrespect but just trying to figure out why you would want to give up so a great coin just to wipe out prior mistakes. Everything is timing, last year you may have gotten more, tomorrow maybe even less the next day who knows, but I do know that is one heck of a monster coin based on your research and therefore it would be the only gold coin that I would want. I guess you can see we are diometrically on opposite sides of the table and maybe that is good, viva la difference
The motivation for selling the coin was not to wipe out hobby losses, but instead, to reduce the value of my collection and shift the capital to other financial endeavors. It did not occur to me that selling the coin would erase prior transgressions until after the fact.
The coin is not irreplaceable. They are available for auction several times each year. I owned the coin, enjoyed it, and am now enjoying the proceeds.
(just kidding
Seriously, it's nice that something positive occasionally comes of all the heat generated around here
(in reference to how you located the coin).
I make it a point to study your old posts discussing your pursuit of gold with unmessed with original surfaces. Those insights have been valuable as I have reshaped my collecting goals.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
March of Time - 27 Centuries in Gold
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
It is really nice to be sort of lucky and have one good coin carry you like that. Sort of had a similar experience with my 7070 type set that I was cracking slabs to complete. Lost a bunch of money sending coins back in to get recertified to trade and/or sell, especially with the large number of downgrades that I got. But I did get one upgrade when resubmitting that substantially mitigated the losses.
This hobby is much more fun when you can enjoy it for free
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
I assume the proceeds from this sale will be going into Steelers memorabilia?
KJ ---> looking fwd to September 10th!
I have yet to find that one important historical purchase.
<< <i>TTT for a "real post" thats getting dropped down due to some moron who is about as emotionally mature as my 2 yr old. >>
Who was this directed at?
<< <i>Congrat's on the killing you made. My biggest regret was trading in my $20 1861-0 PCGS AU-53, I bought the coin from Heritage as a "buy now" for $7,250 and traded it in less than a year later for $9,250 just think of the money I could've made on that coin.
By my calculation, easily $25-30k...not to rub it in or anything.
I have always enjoyed seeing your ’61-O each time you posted it. Glad you are happy with the sale.
In mid March 2003, the spot gold price was $335, and currently the price is about $950, roughly a 3 fold increase. While your profit was about 5 fold, the excitement of owning the coin, I am sure, was priceless. I only wish I could have been the buyer.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I am afraid that I will need a humongous coin
to make up for all of my coin mistakes. Sometimes
I feel like I am being nibbled to death by ducks.
I had nightmares about this very thing when I was young.
https://www.smallcopperguy.com