Lets play a game. I selling and a dealers buying..

YaHa · July 29, 2009 1:18PM

I have 20 2006 PCGS Ms 70 1st "Reverse" 20th anniversary ASE coins that are remarkable.. Should I sell as a whole set of all 3 in 70 1st PCGS grade or go ahead and sell just the reverse.

Now here the game.. I'm Joe blow and I walking the bourse floor at a huge coin show.. These coins are getting harder and harder to find in 70 condition.. Yes, the price has dropped, but it's time for me to move all 20 of them.. The dealers that is buying what price does he have in mind.. I know each dealer varies in price if they are buying, but I need help as I don't want to get sores on my feet and talk to myself after many of those dealer try like hell to steal my profits..

So, what is a fair price for each? Dealers welcome, sellers welcome of recent prices they sold for, or anyone with knowledge of my offer to them at the start..

All though this is a game right now, I might be meeting a few dealers soon and maybe we can work out a fair deal.. Thanks Yaha

The reason I am asking this is I haven't been to a show in a while and have heard not so happy outcome because of the dealers offering way below market/wholesale value.

kranky · July 29, 2009 9:08PM

My first thought is you'll do a lot better selling them directly to collectors than to dealers, who will be asking themselves how long those coins will sit in their inventory before someone buys them. I think the dealer will ask him/herself "What can I wholesale these for tomorrow, because I will never sell 20 of these to retail customers."

YaHa · July 29, 2009 9:22PM

<< My first thought is you'll do a lot better selling them directly to collectors than to dealers, who will be asking themselves how long those coins will sit in their inventory before someone buys them. I think the dealer will ask him/herself "What can I wholesale these for tomorrow, because I will never sell 20 of these to retail customers." >>

Yea, I know this..

But wanted to get the feel of what a "Honest" dealer does business.

Or better yet, what is the norm of the % they offer at any given time.. Is it depending on type of coin? Or In stock inventory? Or is it like you said what can I sell it for sure the next day.. Thanks Kranky. I write silly questions not only to entice me to walk up to a dealer without my tazer coocked and loaded, but maybe a newbie can read this and offer his/her coins on the bourse and walk away feeling they had a good experience.

morgansforever · July 29, 2009 9:26PM

Sell to collectors, dealers are in the business of buying low, and selling high.
My experience with Eagles, is that the dealer doesn't give a shat about 20th Anniv., it's bullion.
A registry collector will have a different opinion.
One benefit is the dealer will buy the whole lot, then your done, no fees, no returns, no Paypal.
Good luck.

ricko · July 29, 2009 9:38PM

Well, a hypothetical individual, who had 20 hypothetical sets, has missed the actual peak selling point. In addition, the availability (suddenly) of these pristine examples, now serves to drive the market price down even further. Best bet is to dribble them out to collectors - but start now, before another hypothetical individual decides to unload his hoard.

Cheers, RickO

291fifth · July 29, 2009 9:43PM

They are probably a one-way market item. Dealers will have little interest unless customers have made requests for them ... doubtful.

YaHa · July 29, 2009 9:48PM

<< Well, a hypothetical individual, who had 20 hypothetical sets, has missed the actual peak selling point. In addition, the availability (suddenly) of these pristine examples, now serves to drive the market price down even further. Best bet is to dribble them out to collectors - but start now, before another hypothetical individual decides to unload his hoard.

Cheers, RickO >>

Ouch... Don't you think these will rebound in years to come.. The reason I say this is I have heard that more than 20% or even more the Sp and the reverse ase in that set of 3 has developed those milk spots and think after the dust is wiped off of the sill, these coins could be in demand because of their rariety. Am I wrong to believe this theory?

Patches · July 29, 2009 10:13PM

<< 

<< Well, a hypothetical individual, who had 20 hypothetical sets, has missed the actual peak selling point. In addition, the availability (suddenly) of these pristine examples, now serves to drive the market price down even further. Best bet is to dribble them out to collectors - but start now, before another hypothetical individual decides to unload his hoard.

Cheers, RickO >>

Ouch... Don't you think these will rebound in years to come.. The reason I say this is I have heard that more than 20% or even more the Sp and the reverse ase in that set of 3 has developed those milk spots and think after the dust is wiped off of the sill, these coins could be in demand because of their rariety. Am I wrong to believe this theory?

>>

I don't want one, take that for whatever it's worth

BAJJERFAN · July 29, 2009 11:01PM

<< Ouch... Don't you think these will rebound in years to come.. The reason I say this is I have heard that more than 20% or even more the Sp and the reverse ase in that set of 3 has developed those milk spots and think after the dust is wiped off of the sill, these coins could be in demand because of their rariety. Am I wrong to believe this theory?

>>

Unless you relly need the $$$ just wait and see if that would be true.

kranky · July 29, 2009 11:11PM

<< wanted to get the feel of what a "Honest" dealer does business.

Or better yet, what is the norm of the % they offer at any given time.. Is it depending on type of coin? Or In stock inventory? Or is it like you said what can I sell it for sure the next day.. Thanks Kranky. I write silly questions not only to entice me to walk up to a dealer without my tazer coocked and loaded, but maybe a newbie can read this and offer his/her coins on the bourse and walk away feeling they had a good experience. >>

The offer will absolutely depend on the coin.

Dealer has a customer with the coin on his want list: very strong offer
Dealer sells them in the shop as fast as they come in: strong offer
Dealer has sold them in the shop from time to time: moderate offer
Dealer has only wholesaled them out: weak offer.
Dealer has only wholesaled them out and had to shop them around a lot: very weak offer
Dealer doesn't think the wholesaler will want them: abysmal offer (if any)

In today's market, cash flow is very important and nobody wants to buy 20 of anything that can't be sold quickly if necessary.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2009 11:41PM

Whatever it takes to make us both happy is fair enough for me.

RedTiger · July 29, 2009 11:44PM

<< 

<< My first thought is you'll do a lot better selling them directly to collectors than to dealers, who will be asking themselves how long those coins will sit in their inventory before someone buys them. I think the dealer will ask him/herself "What can I wholesale these for tomorrow, because I will never sell 20 of these to retail customers." >>

Yea, I know this..

But wanted to get the feel of what a "Honest" dealer does business.

Or better yet, what is the norm of the % they offer at any given time.. Is it depending on type of coin? Or In stock inventory? Or is it like you said what can I sell it for sure the next day.. Thanks Kranky. I write silly questions not only to entice me to walk up to a dealer without my tazer coocked and loaded, but maybe a newbie can read this and offer his/her coins on the bourse and walk away feeling they had a good experience. >>

Few if any bourse dealers with tables stock ultramoderns for retail sale, so most would look to flip them to another dealer. Because of that, a seller would do well to get 50% of typical Ebay price walking a show floor with PF70 2006 ASEs. If a person wants to move the 20 lot, best to go direct to those that deal in those kinds of coins. There are a couple of forum members that are big time dealers in ultramoderns, Wondercoin and ModernCoinMart, try them.

keets · July 29, 2009 11:47PM

In today's market, cash flow is very important and nobody wants to buy 20 of anything that can't be sold quickly if necessary

this is a thought which is a double edged sword, so to speak. depending on who the dealer is and how that dealer has run the business there really shouldn't be a cash flow problem. we're getting some very good buys now because many dealers during the big run-up have overstepped their market niche and left themselves exposed to your cash flow scenario. it seems most typical of the smaller guys who shouldn't be dealers to begin with and probably don't even have a vendors license(much less a PMDL). the smart dealers don't have cash flow problems because everything isn't tied up in stock as it would be if they bought the 20 sets without a buyer lined up.

at the moment we're set to offer on a Large Cent/CWT collection that came into the store yesterday. we worked up the offer yesterday but aren't pitching it till Saturday. i assume it'll be strong to get at the rest of the collection this guy has but it tends to be specialized so we may end up taking on consignment for a short while. the cash flow strapped dealer wouldn't even be able to touch this but since Rich has set aside reserve cash we can "play" some since we have homes for some but not all of the stuff.

that's where dealers are seriously in error; they fail to set aside cash reserves and they depend heavily on shows to move their stock without having a B&M that collectors can visit. i can't recall who the member was but he mentioned in a show thread that he had to move about 40% of his stock at every show!!!!

to me, that doesn't sound like a very good business model and exactly the thing which causes guys to fold or be very susceptible to bargain hunters. i've been waiting for this lull in the market to cleanse us of these guys, there are way too many dealers/shows/auction houses to be supported by the hobby.

let the purge begin!!

notwilight · July 30, 2009 12:02AM

Not clear to me what you have for sale: MS70, RP70, or all 3 coins x 20? Are they first strike?

--Jerry

seatedcollector · July 30, 2009 12:29AM

if you insist on selling a handful to a dealer, make it 5 not 20 then ask if he could use more, if you set all 20 on the table, you may as well cut your own throat. a much more logical way to dispose of them would be to piecemeal them directly to collectors via ebay or a similar auction venue. with ebay you lose 15% in fees, but you (should) be able to sell them individually for at least 15% more per piece than a dealer is willing to pay for 20 of them. i know nothing about these items, but i do know this, modern coins dont "get harder to find" they just end up being re-submitted over and over until they are in a slab that no one can upgrade.

RedneckHB · July 30, 2009 12:31AM

<< They are probably a one-way market item. Dealers will have little interest unless customers have made requests for them ... doubtful. >>

My thoughts exactly.

Amigo · July 30, 2009 12:32AM

dealers/shows/auction houses

I don't think we have way too many at all. The hobby needs all the Dealers it can get ...... it pulls inventory out of the market and creates lots of Market Makers. It's one reason for the recent Bull Market. Without all those pocket dealers the prices would be much softer now. We need inventory to continue trading hands.

Hyperion · July 30, 2009 12:56AM

<< Not clear to me what you have for sale: MS70, RP70, or all 3 coins x 20? Are they first strike?

--Jerry >>

Agree.

Either way, I'd never sell to a dealer except where I didn't care what I was getting for the item. And that's like .00000000% of the time.

WinPitcher · July 30, 2009 1:04AM

Piecemeal them out one at a time.

Steve

mkman123 · July 30, 2009 1:07AM

sell them one by one to collectors here. There is a set at the local B&M, sitting there for almost a year. Noone wants it and the dealer here would not give you much as he can't sell it fast enough

YaHa · July 30, 2009 1:39AM

<< Not clear to me what you have for sale: MS70, RP70, or all 3 coins x 20? Are they first strike?

--Jerry >>

My Bad. Tired when I wrote this.. Ok I have 20 2006 American Silver Eagles sets 1st strike PCGS 3 coin Set. The Reverse Proof, the Satin Proof and the Proof/dcam.. (IF) I need to sell just the reverse coins from this set or one of the others or the whole damn 3 of them what is the asking that a dealer would pay for them.

I trying to get the norm/price not only for my sets but coins in general if Blow Joe has any type of coin to sell at the bourse..

Sorry my lingo isn't up to par as usual..

Now since the cat is out of the bag of me trying to find some selling power as a seller so I don't get too many headaches while walking away talking to myself.. Is the dealer only going to pay what his set fee/buy would be or is there a norm of a price a buyer should already know where to start at... One member stated 50%, that's robbery, greysheet is what 10/20% above price value. Times have changed my coin friends and basically if many of these dealers don't change their tactics a little with the economy, well we are going to see less tables filled with dealers at the shows..

Thanks for any inside.. I do have some nice quanity of bullion Silver and GOld I want to think of selling next big show, but so far reading the responses to my thread it seems this 2006 20th anniversary was a quick flipper as all new coins coming on the market are and that is not Coin Collecting in my opinion.. That is called coin hustling for profit.. Thanks for my bad.

mrpotatoheadd · July 30, 2009 2:12AM

<< Is the dealer only going to pay what his set fee/buy would be or is there a norm of a price a buyer should already know where to start at... One member stated 50%, that's robbery, greysheet is what 10/20% above price value. >>

Price guides show averages. The fact the dealer you're trying to sell to offers less than the average is not evidence that he's trying to rob you. If he thinks the coins will be hard to sell or he already has a bunch or any of a number of other reasons, he'll offer less than if he knows he can sell the coins right away. Doesn't make him a crook, though.

notwilight · July 30, 2009 2:26AM

The reverse proofs are not difficult or expensive in 70 but the MS70 First strike are. You're talking a nice chunk of change here. Most of the responses are from people who don't know or care what coins you're selling--just that they are moderns and they have an opinion about all moderns "one way market" is a common bash. If you're serious about selling these contact a reliable modern dealer privately. --jerry

COINB0Y · July 30, 2009 3:02AM

<< Well, a hypothetical individual, who had 20 hypothetical sets, has missed the actual peak selling point. In addition, the availability (suddenly) of these pristine examples, now serves to drive the market price down even further. Best bet is to dribble them out to collectors - but start now, before another hypothetical individual decides to unload his hoard.

Cheers, RickO >>

RedTiger · July 30, 2009 3:25AM

<< 

<< Not clear to me what you have for sale: MS70, RP70, or all 3 coins x 20? Are they first strike?

--Jerry >>

My Bad. Tired when I wrote this.. Ok I have 20 2006 American Silver Eagles sets 1st strike PCGS 3 coin Set. The Reverse Proof, the Satin Proof and the Proof/dcam.. (IF) I need to sell just the reverse coins from this set or one of the others or the whole damn 3 of them what is the asking that a dealer would pay for them.

I trying to get the norm/price not only for my sets but coins in general if Blow Joe has any type of coin to sell at the bourse..

Sorry my lingo isn't up to par as usual..

Now since the cat is out of the bag of me trying to find some selling power as a seller so I don't get too many headaches while walking away talking to myself.. Is the dealer only going to pay what his set fee/buy would be or is there a norm of a price a buyer should already know where to start at... One member stated 50%, that's robbery, greysheet is what 10/20% above price value. Times have changed my coin friends and basically if many of these dealers don't change their tactics a little with the economy, well we are going to see less tables filled with dealers at the shows..

Thanks for any inside.. I do have some nice quanity of bullion Silver and GOld I want to think of selling next big show, but so far reading the responses to my thread it seems this 2006 20th anniversary was a quick flipper as all new coins coming on the market are and that is not Coin Collecting in my opinion.. That is called coin hustling for profit.. Thanks for my bad. >>

Bullion type items will typically move at much smaller spreads, if it is generic and easy to move. If bullion items are what is for sale and not PF70 First Strike material, it is a case of generic apples vs. specialty imported rare oranges.

Times haven't changed for ultramodern top pops. Unless a person can find a dealer that has retail customers for those pieces, dealer offers are typically going to be below wholesale, because that dealer is going to flip them at wholesale price to another dealer. That hasn't changed. Just hope that the dealer knows what the going rate is, and then they will offer. If they don't know, no offer at all, or really low ball offers.

What has changed is liquidity and cash are tighter so cash offers for all coins are typically lighter than they were a year or two ago. Again, I think 50% of Ebay retail would be a strong offer on most bourses for most PF70 material. Many dealers will not offer at all, some offers might be more in line with melt value. It is worth noting that greysheet is no longer that useful even for widgets, because it hasn't adjusted prices down to reflect the new lower wholesale levels for many common coins. On a recent thread one dealer said CCE bid (real money bid) was 30% back of greysheet bid on a particular Morgan. A collector with that coin might be insulted by an offer that far back of sheet, but that is where the current cash wholesale level is. Of course there are still coins that trade well above sheet, as they always have, but they tend not to be commonly available coins.

YaHa · July 30, 2009 12:53PM

<< 

<< 

<< Not clear to me what you have for sale: MS70, RP70, or all 3 coins x 20? Are they first strike?

--Jerry >>

My Bad. Tired when I wrote this.. Ok I have 20 2006 American Silver Eagles sets 1st strike PCGS 3 coin Set. The Reverse Proof, the Satin Proof and the Proof/dcam.. (IF) I need to sell just the reverse coins from this set or one of the others or the whole damn 3 of them what is the asking that a dealer would pay for them.

I trying to get the norm/price not only for my sets but coins in general if Blow Joe has any type of coin to sell at the bourse..

Sorry my lingo isn't up to par as usual..

Now since the cat is out of the bag of me trying to find some selling power as a seller so I don't get too many headaches while walking away talking to myself.. Is the dealer only going to pay what his set fee/buy would be or is there a norm of a price a buyer should already know where to start at... One member stated 50%, that's robbery, greysheet is what 10/20% above price value. Times have changed my coin friends and basically if many of these dealers don't change their tactics a little with the economy, well we are going to see less tables filled with dealers at the shows..

Thanks for any inside.. I do have some nice quanity of bullion Silver and GOld I want to think of selling next big show, but so far reading the responses to my thread it seems this 2006 20th anniversary was a quick flipper as all new coins coming on the market are and that is not Coin Collecting in my opinion.. That is called coin hustling for profit.. Thanks for my bad. >>

Bullion type items will typically move at much smaller spreads, if it is generic and easy to move. If bullion items are what is for sale and not PF70 First Strike material, it is a case of generic apples vs. specialty imported rare oranges.

Times haven't changed for ultramodern top pops. Unless a person can find a dealer that has retail customers for those pieces, dealer offers are typically going to be below wholesale, because that dealer is going to flip them at wholesale price to another dealer. That hasn't changed. Just hope that the dealer knows what the going rate is, and then they will offer. If they don't know, no offer at all, or really low ball offers.

What has changed is liquidity and cash are tighter so cash offers for all coins are typically lighter than they were a year or two ago. Again, I think 50% of Ebay retail would be a strong offer on most bourses for most PF70 material. Many dealers will not offer at all, some offers might be more in line with melt value. It is worth noting that greysheet is no longer that useful even for widgets, because it hasn't adjusted prices down to reflect the new lower wholesale levels for many common coins. On a recent thread one dealer said CCE bid (real money bid) was 30% back of greysheet bid on a particular Morgan. A collector with that coin might be insulted by an offer that far back of sheet, but that is where the current cash wholesale level is. Of course there are still coins that trade well above sheet, as they always have, but they tend not to be commonly available coins. >>

Ouch... Oh well it looks like they will be in a dark corner in the safe for years to come.. When I look at the reverse proof it is a work of art.. So, to Jerry, thanks for your imput, you are 100% correct.. These in the RP and the Satin-W will hold their value and I can see it climb again.. Milk spots have been eating most of the ASE in all types.. So far I only had 2 coins in other sets that were deemed not worthy of 70 grades..

Lets play a game. I selling and a dealers buying..

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