I was in a similar position with some coins auctioned on this forum with a hard luck story($60). After 6 months of trying to get a refund I went to my police dept. They did say it was a civil matter but did take a report. I posted a pic of the report cover sheet and got a quick refund. 2 weeks later my police dept. followed up with me saying they would reach out to the other police dept. if I did not get satisfaction.
C'mon guys, you've got to be kidding me. It is a criminal case if you are taking my $2500 and I end up with a piece of junk. If I took a chance and trusted the seller, it is his turn to trust me. When I get the refund, he gets his pos back. At this point it is valuable to me only for it's evidentiary value.
I had a similar thing happen to me back when the WI high/low quarters were first discovered. Only difference was that I knew immediately that it was fake. When I asked for a refund the seller basically told me to pound salt so I made a call to the Newport RI PD. The detective I talked to said ahhh yeah i've heard of this punk before. Three hours later my money was back in my pp acct and this guy was all appologetic asking if I would please leave pos feedback. .....Yeah right!
So Steve maybe your "barely a civil matter" is bs. Your rights are yours only if you fight for them!
If the seller wants any assurance that I will return the pos coin, I tell him to tell the dectective to follow up to make sure that I follow thru on my end.
I think it is very simple. Forget about what the seller said. File a dispute with PayPal and or eBay first and gave eBay, PayPal and the seller 7 days to respond. Tell them if you don't get the refund respond by that time you will file a dispute with your credit card and FBI. Here is the address: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx for FBI. As a buyer we need to fight this kind of seller and stop them doing it again. I am confident that you will get your money back if you fight for it.
<< <i>Wow, it's hard to believe that so many people here believe that this is a case of sorry, too late now to do anything. This is a criminal case pure and simple. What I would do, is give the seller one more chance to refund the sale price or that I would pursue criminal action against him.
And no, there is no way that I would send the coin back to him, it is evidence, it would be like giving OJ the gloves. Next if he refused or failed to reply, I would call the police dept in his town, speak to the fraud or robbery bureau and explain what had happened. A visit from a detective is usually enough to convince the perp to make good rather than face criminal charges.
I know for a fact that you have every right to seek redress and a good pd will look into cases like this. >>
I 100% agree with you. We need to fight this knid of seller. Don't believe seller any more. Just give seller 5 or 7 days to refund you money otherwise you will file a complaint with FBI and your state attorney gereral. It is a crime to sell a fake coin. Simple as that.
At the point you are at, I would send the coin back to the dealer but give him an ultimatum on time, say one week from acceptance to make a decision. If he does not respond, assuming you paid with a credit card, file a claim and get your funds back. If he does a counter dispute you have everything you need to win with PCGS saying it was not genuine. You also have photos of the raw coin you sent PCGS. It would also help if you saved a copy of the original auction and it's photos.
The end of the story happened like this: The detective called me the next day and said that he had paid a visit to this already convicted felon and he had about five excuses that "a friend had told him that the coin was a high leaf" etc. The detective told me that the clincher was that he had about 5 other auctions up for Wisconin "error" coins and that when told that I would return the coin.... he said naw, "he can keep it." I mailed it back sig conf. anyways.
When I thanked the dectective for the great job he had done, he said no problem, I love shaking down punks like that. So if all else fails after you try reasoning with the seller, that is what I would do. Most cops are good guys that love to burn the bad guys out there.
<< <i>C'mon guys, you've got to be kidding me. It is a criminal case if you are taking my $2500 and I end up with a piece of junk. If I took a chance and trusted the seller, it is his turn to trust me. When I get the refund, he gets his pos back. At this point it is valuable to me only for it's evidentiary value.
I had a similar thing happen to me back when the WI high/low quarters were first discovered. Only difference was that I knew immediately that it was fake. When I asked for a refund the seller basically told me to pound salt so I made a call to the Newport RI PD. The detective I talked to said ahhh yeah i've heard of this punk before. Three hours later my money was back in my pp acct and this guy was all appologetic asking if I would please leave pos feedback. .....Yeah right!
So Steve maybe your "barely a civil matter" is bs. Your rights are yours only if you fight for them!
edited for spelling: (celler) >>
Yes, we need to fight this kind of seller and stop them.
Don't send the coin back unless you are told by ebay or paypal to do so. That's your evidence. Don't trust the seller anymore. Just tell the seller and ebay that you want your money back in 5 or 7 days otherwise you will file a claim with FBI.
FBI won't touch it. Local police -- where the dealer does his business are the people to call. DO NOT SEND BACK THE COIN. The DA in the jurisdiction needs it for evidence.
Tell the dealer this is what you are doing. Give him the chance to refund your money. Otherwise you file the official police complaint. Then it is out of your hands, and the police, DA and maybe even the Secret Service take over. Not the FBI.
You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one.
You have NO IDEA what the seller intends to do for another.
You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.
I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.
Lets say for arguments sake that the seller sold said coin thinking it was a legit coin.
Steve>>>
Sorry Steve, but your liberal leanings are obvious. Lets start with name calling and CAPITAL letters to stress our point. If the seller is inocent, fine it ends there. If not, he gets what he deserves. You also didn't notice that I mention as a last resort..... to use the police.
And you better hope that I would be on a jury judging you, because I would listen to the evidence and give you every benefit of the doubt in deciding your guilt or innocence. Very much unlike you.
<< <i>Wow how many times until people learn. DO NOT BUY RAW COINS ON EBAY, AND NOT FOR 2300 EVER NEVER EVER NEVER. With that being said I have a few questions.
1. Why did it take three months to get the coin graded? With a coin of that value and the way you bought it you should have simply paid for a faster grading. 2. Learn to take a decent photo or get someone who can. It is not hard to take a good photo of a coin in a flip, if you cant, then get someone who can. 3. Before you sent it in for grading and before you bought the coin you should have contacted the seller and made an agreement as to what would happen if it turned out fake. 4. I know it sucks to be out your money and I feel bad for having to tell you this but its your fault and the seller has no obligation to refund your money with the way you set things up. The best you could hope for is the he believes you and for some reason would refund you money after this long of a time period. If I was the seller I would think you were trying to scam me, I mean come on three months, never mentioned it before at all. I would tell you sorry but after this much time you should have contacted the seller and let them know so you could have set something up. Put yourself in the sellers position, someone buys a coin for 2300, 90 days later he says I sent it in and it was fake, seller asks for a photo and you send him a blurry pic. If I was the seller all of that would throw up a red flag and honestly I would probly just block you thinking you were trying to scam me, but then again I dont sell raw coins so I dont have this problem >>
Unfortunately, The above post offers several excellent points. I am not saying the seller is right, but I agree with the poster above that the complete lack of communication for the first 90 days of the transaction regarding your (the buyer) actions and intentions with the coin along with the breach of his return policy, make a smooth return impossible. I am a collector who also sells on eBay. 90+% of what I sell is certified and I have some fairly strict policies on returns but at the same time I will work with people if they communicate. But at the same time my policies are in place to protect me from the exact scenario above!
As a seller on EBAY, I would handle the situation exactly how the seller has handled it so far as it pertains to "seeing the coin". I would only take it back if I was "100% sure it was my coin and it had not been altered in appearance in any way". I would be extremely skeptical and very frustrated if I had not heard from an “EBAY buyer” for 3 months and suddenly they wanted to return a coin. Remember everyone, we are talking EBAY here not the PCGS boards.
I also agree with many other posters here! Why the heck would you buy a $2500 raw coin on the bay? Especially before asking questions like: Will you guarantee this coin is genuine? May I send it into a grading company to get it certified? What if I sent it in for express grading and we had an answer in 30 days? Again, the integrity of EBAY is not what it is on these boards IMHO.
One other note: I have found that 95% of the public does not like to ask these questions because they are uncomfortable. What I have also found is when these questions are asked up front and a major issue arises, things go much smoother. Often, when you ask these questions up front the answers you get give you enough information to RUN AWAY IN THE OTHER DIRECTION! Don’t be surprised if this turns into a $2500 lesson!
Don't be afraid to fight any dishonor seller on eBay. We need to do this to make eBay a better place for honest seller and buyer. Once I bought a raw coin on eBay for about 1k. After I received the coin I found out that the listing picture was edited and there are some scratches on the coin that did not show on the listing picture. Obviously the seller tried to cheat otherwise she would not edit the picture. I sent her an email with my picture of the coin and asked for refund and she denied the editing the picture but said send the coin back. I wanted her to stated on the email how much she would refund me and she refused to do that (she wanted me to pay both insurance and postage on both way and I only agree to do the eBay way which is return postage only). So I filed a PayPal claim. Next day eBay sent me an email asked me to call eBay to speed up the process. I called eBay and eBay said they would refund me the money in two days (time to process the refund). All eBay asked me to do was to cancel the PayPal claim. After I received the refund from eBay I canceled the claim and I still have the coin as of today. Later I found out there were couple buyers has problem with this seller and the coins were all over 1k. One buyer bought over 6K coins from this seller and all of them were problem coins. The seller sounds very nice on her communication but she lie to many buyers.
thanks for that. I agree there are a lot of people who mislead others. Best to disclose what one has for sale. The old "go fish" days are sort of nostalgiac, but lack substance worthy of the buyer's cash.
Still, 80% of the people reserve the right to remain ignorant and expect 100% of society to foot the bill for their mistakes.
I just saw the picture of the coin. It absolutely looks like a cast fake! imho. Even an EBAY dealer should have known that was fake and I would question his intent. The big question is proving THAT is the coin he originally sent you.
thanks for that. I agree there are a lot of people who mislead others. Best to disclose what one has for sale. The old "go fish" days are sort of nostalgiac, but lack substance worthy of the buyer's cash.
Still, 80% of the people reserve the right to remain ignorant and expect 100% of society to foot the bill for their mistakes. >>
Two side? 80%? Where do live? I want to move there! I live in California where that number is at 96% and growing!
Sorry Steve, but your liberal leanings are obvious. Lets start with name calling and CAPITAL letters to stress our point. If the seller is inocent, fine it ends there. If not, he gets what he deserves. You also didn't notice that I mention as a last resort..... to use the police.
And you better hope that I would be on a jury judging you, because I would listen to the evidence and give you every benefit of the doubt in deciding your guilt or innocence. Very much unlike you
Sorry, but I did not name call and secondly I am not a liberal. So lets keep the politics out of this. Because your john birch society mentality is obvious as well.
What I am is a person that does not jump to conclusions like you seem to do.
Authentication companies The authentication companies listed here are professional, independent evaluators. We’ve obtained a pledge from these evaluators that they will offer their services to both buyers and sellers, and that they will maintain independence from any individual party. The authenticators have pledged not to buy or sell on eBay's core site, keeping them out of competition with the buyers and sellers they are serving. They have also promised to provide eBay users with competitive prices.
I see no time limit in the above ebay statement.
Coins Get your coins graded with:
Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
Also from ebay.
Misrepresented items If an expert says that an item on eBay is not accurately represented, we reserve the right to remove it if we believe that its sale might create liability for the buyer, the seller, or any third party. If this happens, we’ll refund the listing fee to the seller.
Looks like this protects both seller and buyer. Again no time limit.
About authentication and grading services Buyers can get an item evaluated before purchasing it or get an evaluation of a recently purchased item. Sellers can boost bidder confidence by having items pre-authenticated before listing an item. Sellers can promote the fact that an independent expert has approved the item, which lets bidders know that the item has been examined by an experienced professional who has pledged to provide an unbiased opinion.
Authentication services : Authentication helps determine whether an item is genuine and described appropriately. Experts can often detect counterfeits from subtle details. However, two expert authenticators can have different opinions on the authenticity of the same item.
Grading services: Grading is a way of determining the physical condition of an item. The grading system depends on the type of item being graded.
For the buyer it states a recently purchased item.
<<<Because your john birch society mentality is obvious as well.>>> <<<You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one>>> <<<You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.>>> <<<I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.>>>
and inflamatory.....what image would you like to draw from this remark?
<<<we hang him from the nearest tree.>>>
And your Liberal leanings was in reference to your liberal stance in granting the criminals out there more sympathy than you offer to the true victim of this scam/crime. All the things that were said about the buyer such as you should have known better has nothing to do with how to make the present situation right.
If you can only critisize, I suggest you judge on facts instead of your own disdain of law enforcement.
You bring up some excellent information from the EBAY legal team. The big question is if the seller will agree that it's his coin. If he does I believe a refund should be of little issue, but that may prove to be a "big if".
Here is ebay stuff about buyer and seller oblgations on a counterfeit coin. Note that it states that the coin must be sent back to the seller.
Obligations when a buyer opens a claim alleging an item is counterfeit:
Sellers shall work with the buyer in good faith during the resolution process to provide buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances to satisfy the buyer that the item is not counterfeit, if such information is available.
If buyer and seller cannot agree that the item is not counterfeit, for covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded, buyers are required to send the item back to the seller. Cost of return shipping will be paid by the buyer or eBay in our sole discretion, unless otherwise agreed upon by the buyer and seller.
Covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded will count as a violation by the seller of our prohibited and infringing items policy.
Sellers shall not list, advertise, or cause that item to appear for sale, barter or trade, on any eBay Inc. (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures, and other members of the group) web site or service located around the world.
While buyers are not obligated to provide third party confirmation that an item is counterfeit in order to open a claim, in cases where there is written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in additional circumstances where eBay elects to exercise its discretion, eBay may request the destruction of the item by an authorized third party and at eBay’s expense.
I am very disappointed that so many of you blame on the buyer for buying a $2500 coin on eBay. It is not the buyer’s fault to spend $2500 to buy a coin. If no one want to buy on eBay then what is good for the honest eBay seller. Please we should work together both buyer and seller to stop any dishonor buyer and seller on eBay and make eBay a better and safe place to do business.
Cover you bases and send the coin back. Get the seller, in writing, to agree to a go-forward plan. Us the eBay information above. Agree on steps, costs, results. I will, you will etc. Make it black and white. Then send the coin signature confirmation so you can prove receipt. Its a tough corner but you either eat the $2500 or you work a way to try to get it back). Finally, mt advice is just my advice, plenty of othere her that have also offered advice. Ultimately, you will need to decide what you feel is best. I hope it works out favorably for you.
Craig If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
I think you are out-of-luck. In hindsite, the agreement about requiring the coin to be labeled as PCGS Genuine at a minimum should have been made prior to the sale.
<<Because your john birch society mentality is obvious as well.>>> <<<You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one>>> <<<You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.>>> <<<I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.>>>
Nice try, only I said "john Birch society AFTER you accused me of name calling. (and after YOU called me a liberal.
None of the above sans the JBS was name calling.
The only person here that named call was you.
Spin it anyway you want, want to say I used Caps to make a point go right ahead, don't confuse name calling with honest debate.
I suggest you go back and re read everyone of my posts. No where did I critisize the buyer and no where did I claim the seller was innocent. No where did I ridicule or show my disdain for law enforcement. You are making some leaps here fellow, first off you have no idea what I do for a living nor do you know anything about my background.
What I did do was be a critic to those that claimed this seller was guilty. We have not heard his side!
Well I'm sorry Steve but you came off as someone that would accuse law enforcement of stringing someone up from a tree and that rubbed me the wrong way.
Letting law enforcement handle it does not mean sending in the swat team or dragging people out for lynching so tone down your rhetoric or else you may be surprised how people view you.
A fake coin is a fake coin. I always read that all coin dealers, shops and shows guarentee that the coins they sale are real. As long as you can show it to be the original coin you bought it would not matter how much time has passed. If i were in your position i would
1. Visit my local police department and find out who handles internet issues. See how much help they will be. Some will and some will not. 2. Contact paypal and credit card and see if they want you to handle the return in a different manner. 3. Make sure you have high quality pics and all the original paperwork on the ebay sale 4. Give the seller a short window to issue the refund and do not settle for less than the full amount
If all the above fails sue him in small claims court and at least get a judgement against him. You may not get your money for a while but sooner or later he may sell a house or some property and then you will.
Everyone has there own ideas about raw coins on ebay.
I hope you get this worked out and not out 2500.
Worse case issue, i would pay the guy a visit at some point.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
last word: (from me at least). You are what you are Steve, and I for one don't care to discuss one more word with you but just in case you missed it that was not an appology to you. You might want to call it irony.
Comments
After 6 months of trying to get a refund I went to my police dept. They did say it was a civil matter
but did take a report. I posted a pic of the report cover sheet and got a quick refund. 2 weeks
later my police dept. followed up with me saying they would reach out to the other police dept.
if I did not get satisfaction.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Once it disappears it becomes your word against the sellers word.
Suggest you provide the board with more details....links sellers name etc.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I had a similar thing happen to me back when the WI high/low quarters were first discovered. Only difference was that I knew immediately that it was fake. When I asked for a refund the seller basically told me to pound salt so I made a call to the Newport RI PD.
The detective I talked to said ahhh yeah i've heard of this punk before. Three hours later my money was back in my pp acct and this guy was all appologetic asking if I would please leave pos feedback. .....Yeah right!
So Steve maybe your "barely a civil matter" is bs. Your rights are yours only if you fight for them!
edited for spelling: (celler)
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
<< <i>I agree. You gotta return the coin first.
Is the coin actually made out of plutonium? Is it a one ounce coin? >>
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
<< <i>Wow, it's hard to believe that so many people here believe that this is a case of sorry, too late now to do anything. This is a criminal case pure and simple. What I would do, is give the seller one more chance to refund the sale price or that I would pursue criminal action against him.
And no, there is no way that I would send the coin back to him, it is evidence, it would be like giving OJ the gloves. Next if he refused or failed to reply, I would call the police dept in his town, speak to the fraud or robbery bureau and explain what had happened. A visit from a detective is usually enough to convince the perp to make good rather than face criminal charges.
I know for a fact that you have every right to seek redress and a good pd will look into cases like this. >>
I 100% agree with you. We need to fight this knid of seller. Don't believe seller any more. Just give seller 5 or 7 days to refund you money otherwise you will file a complaint with FBI and your state attorney gereral. It is a crime to sell a fake coin. Simple as that.
When I thanked the dectective for the great job he had done, he said no problem, I love shaking down punks like that. So if all else fails after you try reasoning with the seller, that is what I would do. Most cops are good guys that love to burn the bad guys out there.
<< <i>C'mon guys, you've got to be kidding me. It is a criminal case if you are taking my $2500 and I end up with a piece of junk. If I took a chance and trusted the seller, it is his turn to trust me. When I get the refund, he gets his pos back. At this point it is valuable to me only for it's evidentiary value.
I had a similar thing happen to me back when the WI high/low quarters were first discovered. Only difference was that I knew immediately that it was fake. When I asked for a refund the seller basically told me to pound salt so I made a call to the Newport RI PD.
The detective I talked to said ahhh yeah i've heard of this punk before. Three hours later my money was back in my pp acct and this guy was all appologetic asking if I would please leave pos feedback. .....Yeah right!
So Steve maybe your "barely a civil matter" is bs. Your rights are yours only if you fight for them!
edited for spelling: (celler) >>
Yes, we need to fight this kind of seller and stop them.
Tell the dealer this is what you are doing. Give him the chance to refund your money. Otherwise you file the official police complaint. Then it is out of your hands, and the police, DA and maybe even the Secret Service take over. Not the FBI.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
You guys make me laugh.
You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one.
You have NO IDEA what the seller intends to do for another.
You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.
I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.
Lets say for arguments sake that the seller sold said coin thinking it was a legit coin.
Steve
Bingo! Good call MLA.
Steve
Just be prepared for them to tell you it is a civil matter.
Then it is up to you to file a small claims case against the seller.
However, lets be prudent and give the seller a chance to make good before
we hang him from the nearest tree.
Steve
You guys make me laugh.
You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one.
You have NO IDEA what the seller intends to do for another.
You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.
I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.
Lets say for arguments sake that the seller sold said coin thinking it was a legit coin.
Steve>>>
Sorry Steve, but your liberal leanings are obvious. Lets start with name calling and CAPITAL letters to stress our point. If the seller is inocent, fine it ends there. If not, he gets what he deserves. You also didn't notice that I mention as a last resort..... to use the police.
And you better hope that I would be on a jury judging you, because I would listen to the evidence and give you every benefit of the doubt in deciding your guilt or innocence. Very much unlike you.
He just wants to know how to proceed
I suggest that we send the SWAT team.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Wow how many times until people learn. DO NOT BUY RAW COINS ON EBAY, AND NOT FOR 2300 EVER NEVER EVER NEVER. With that being said I have a few questions.
1. Why did it take three months to get the coin graded? With a coin of that value and the way you bought it you should have simply paid for a faster grading.
2. Learn to take a decent photo or get someone who can. It is not hard to take a good photo of a coin in a flip, if you cant, then get someone who can.
3. Before you sent it in for grading and before you bought the coin you should have contacted the seller and made an agreement as to what would happen if it turned out fake.
4. I know it sucks to be out your money and I feel bad for having to tell you this but its your fault and the seller has no obligation to refund your money with the way you set things up. The best you could hope for is the he believes you and for some reason would refund you money after this long of a time period. If I was the seller I would think you were trying to scam me, I mean come on three months, never mentioned it before at all. I would tell you sorry but after this much time you should have contacted the seller and let them know so you could have set something up. Put yourself in the sellers position, someone buys a coin for 2300, 90 days later he says I sent it in and it was fake, seller asks for a photo and you send him a blurry pic. If I was the seller all of that would throw up a red flag and honestly I would probly just block you thinking you were trying to scam me, but then again I dont sell raw coins so I dont have this problem
Unfortunately, The above post offers several excellent points. I am not saying the seller is right, but I agree with the poster above that the complete lack of communication for the first 90 days of the transaction regarding your (the buyer) actions and intentions with the coin along with the breach of his return policy, make a smooth return impossible. I am a collector who also sells on eBay. 90+% of what I sell is certified and I have some fairly strict policies on returns but at the same time I will work with people if they communicate. But at the same time my policies are in place to protect me from the exact scenario above!
As a seller on EBAY, I would handle the situation exactly how the seller has handled it so far as it pertains to "seeing the coin". I would only take it back if I was "100% sure it was my coin and it had not been altered in appearance in any way". I would be extremely skeptical and very frustrated if I had not heard from an “EBAY buyer” for 3 months and suddenly they wanted to return a coin. Remember everyone, we are talking EBAY here not the PCGS boards.
I also agree with many other posters here! Why the heck would you buy a $2500 raw coin on the bay? Especially before asking questions like: Will you guarantee this coin is genuine? May I send it into a grading company to get it certified? What if I sent it in for express grading and we had an answer in 30 days? Again, the integrity of EBAY is not what it is on these boards IMHO.
One other note: I have found that 95% of the public does not like to ask these questions because they are uncomfortable. What I have also found is when these questions are asked up front and a major issue arises, things go much smoother. Often, when you ask these questions up front the answers you get give you enough information to RUN AWAY IN THE OTHER DIRECTION! Don’t be surprised if this turns into a $2500 lesson!
Good Luck
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<<<I suggest that we send the SWAT team. >>>
Inflamatory Images?
This thread is useless without pics.
thanks for that. I agree there are a lot of people who mislead others. Best to disclose what one has for sale. The old "go fish" days are sort of nostalgiac, but lack substance worthy of the buyer's cash.
Still, 80% of the people reserve the right to remain ignorant and expect 100% of society to foot the bill for their mistakes.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Again good luck!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>jt88,
thanks for that. I agree there are a lot of people who mislead others. Best to disclose what one has for sale. The old "go fish" days are sort of nostalgiac, but lack substance worthy of the buyer's cash.
Still, 80% of the people reserve the right to remain ignorant and expect 100% of society to foot the bill for their mistakes. >>
Two side? 80%? Where do live? I want to move there! I live in California where that number is at 96% and growing!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
And you better hope that I would be on a jury judging you, because I would listen to the evidence and give you every benefit of the doubt in deciding your guilt or innocence. Very much unlike you
Sorry, but I did not name call and secondly I am not a liberal. So lets keep the politics out of this. Because your john birch society mentality is obvious as well.
What I am is a person that does not jump to conclusions like you seem to do.
Please point out where I name called.
Steve
<< <i>Lets start with CAPITAL letters to stress our point.
>>
Guilty
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
So this seller is a 'perp' Yeah you give people the benefit of the doubt regarding innocence or
guilt.........
Pul-ease
Steve
The authentication companies listed here are professional, independent evaluators. We’ve obtained a pledge from these evaluators that they will offer their services to both buyers and sellers, and that they will maintain independence from any individual party. The authenticators have pledged not to buy or sell on eBay's core site, keeping them out of competition with the buyers and sellers they are serving. They have also promised to provide eBay users with competitive prices.
I see no time limit in the above ebay statement.
Coins
Get your coins graded with:
Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
Also from ebay.
Misrepresented items
If an expert says that an item on eBay is not accurately represented, we reserve the right to remove it if we believe that its sale might create liability for the buyer, the seller, or any third party. If this happens, we’ll refund the listing fee to the seller.
Looks like this protects both seller and buyer. Again no time limit.
About authentication and grading services
Buyers can get an item evaluated before purchasing it or get an evaluation of a recently purchased item. Sellers can boost bidder confidence by having items pre-authenticated before listing an item. Sellers can promote the fact that an independent expert has approved the item, which lets bidders know that the item has been examined by an experienced professional who has pledged to provide an unbiased opinion.
Authentication services : Authentication helps determine whether an item is genuine and described appropriately. Experts can often detect counterfeits from subtle details. However, two expert authenticators can have different opinions on the authenticity of the same item.
Grading services: Grading is a way of determining the physical condition of an item. The grading system depends on the type of item being graded.
For the buyer it states a recently purchased item.
My pleasure:
<<<Because your john birch society mentality is obvious as well.>>>
<<<You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one>>>
<<<You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.>>>
<<<I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.>>>
and inflamatory.....what image would you like to draw from this remark?
<<<we hang him from the nearest tree.>>>
And your Liberal leanings was in reference to your liberal stance in granting the criminals out there more sympathy than you offer to the true victim of this scam/crime. All the things that were said about the buyer such as you should have known better has nothing to do with how to make the present situation right.
If you can only critisize, I suggest you judge on facts instead of your own disdain of law enforcement.
edited for spelling....again
You bring up some excellent information from the EBAY legal team. The big question is if the seller will agree that it's his coin. If he does I believe a refund should be of little issue, but that may prove to be a "big if".
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
Obligations when a buyer opens a claim alleging an item is counterfeit:
Sellers shall work with the buyer in good faith during the resolution process to provide buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances to satisfy the buyer that the item is not counterfeit, if such information is available.
If buyer and seller cannot agree that the item is not counterfeit, for covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded, buyers are required to send the item back to the seller. Cost of return shipping will be paid by the buyer or eBay in our sole discretion, unless otherwise agreed upon by the buyer and seller.
Covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded will count as a violation by the seller of our prohibited and infringing items policy.
Sellers shall not list, advertise, or cause that item to appear for sale, barter or trade, on any eBay Inc. (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures, and other members of the group) web site or service located around the world.
While buyers are not obligated to provide third party confirmation that an item is counterfeit in order to open a claim, in cases where there is written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in additional circumstances where eBay elects to exercise its discretion, eBay may request the destruction of the item by an authorized third party and at eBay’s expense.
i hope you get your $$$ back but do yourself a favor, GET OFF OF EBAY!!!
create a relationship w/ real dealers & save yourself headache & heartache over the long haul
K S
<< <i>there's no nice way to put this. you are a idiot for paying that much for someting on ebay from a dealer w/ no particularly known reputation
i hope you get your $$$ back but do yourself a favor, GET OFF OF EBAY!!!
create a relationship w/ real dealers & save yourself headache & heartache over the long haul
K S >>
Can someone translate how Karl feels regarding this issue!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>there's no nice way to put this. you are a idiot for paying that much for someting on ebay from a dealer w/ no particularly known reputation
i hope you get your $$$ back but do yourself a favor, GET OFF OF EBAY!!!
create a relationship w/ real dealers & save yourself headache & heartache over the long haul
K S >>
ya red the thred bout the bad check dint ya karl?
I personally think you have zero recourse.
Reference: Coin Links
<<<You have NO IDEA if the coin is really in fact a fake, for one>>>
<<<You have NO IDEA about what is criminal and what is not.>>>
<<<I just hope none of you are ever on a jury.>>>
Nice try, only I said "john Birch society AFTER you accused me of name calling.
(and after YOU called me a liberal.
None of the above sans the JBS was name calling.
The only person here that named call was you.
Spin it anyway you want, want to say I used Caps to make a point go right ahead, don't confuse name calling
with honest debate.
Steve
did I claim the seller was innocent. No where did I ridicule or show my disdain for law enforcement.
You are making some leaps here fellow, first off you have no idea what I do for a living nor do you know anything about
my background.
What I did do was be a critic to those that claimed this seller was guilty. We have not heard his side!
I think you are confused.
Edit to add:
make that you are confused.
Steve
Steve
Letting law enforcement handle it does not mean sending in the swat team or dragging people out for lynching so tone down your rhetoric or else you may be surprised how people view you.
ugh
hang someone from the nearest tree.
Hence my remark about not wanting you on a jury.
I gave the OP advice very early on, I even said once a coin is found to be fake it belongs to the seller.
regardless of how much time goes by. I included my situation with centsles.
I just like to know both sides of a story before I convict someone.
apology accepted.
Steve
Steve >>>
Thanks for giving me time to go back and reread your posts as you suggested.
Keep digging my man.
comments to the correct people.
And of course you took my 'hang from a tree' out of context.
(it had nothing to do with law enforcement)
Steve
Steve
1. Visit my local police department and find out who handles internet issues. See how much help they will be. Some will and some will not.
2. Contact paypal and credit card and see if they want you to handle the return in a different manner.
3. Make sure you have high quality pics and all the original paperwork on the ebay sale
4. Give the seller a short window to issue the refund and do not settle for less than the full amount
If all the above fails sue him in small claims court and at least get a judgement against him. You may not get your money for a while but sooner or later he may sell a house or some property and then you will.
Everyone has there own ideas about raw coins on ebay.
I hope you get this worked out and not out 2500.
Worse case issue, i would pay the guy a visit at some point.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
John